Employer demanding to see degree after poor code reviewWhat are employers looking for when they ask to see...

Employer demanding to see degree after poor code review

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Employer demanding to see degree after poor code review


What are employers looking for when they ask to see sample code during the hiring process for a programmer?Negotiating Notice Period when current job is unsuitableI want to quit badly but cannot find something elsePotential employer asks for code sampleAre there any known alternatives for code review?Rejected because the code review of my skill assessment was incorrectPrevious employer not happy with review of companyCan leaving a bad glassdoor review for my ex-employer backfire on me?How best to approach a situation where a project you've been working on has been given over to someone else?Will job offer be rescinded after education check due to unfinished degree?






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10















Today I had a code review at a new position I started almost 3 weeks ago. I was assigned a task working with my company's own CMS and a senior dev was supposed to do the code review.



My employer joined in during the review. While we were reviewing we came upon some sloppy mistakes on my end. Nervousness has lead me to neglect some obvious things; I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer for me.



My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!". At first I was unsure if he was serious I have never encountered this before (due note I am a junior at my position).



Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.



The team consists of my employer, 2 senior developers and myself as the recently joined junior developer. I know I'm still considered to be on trial period (first 4 weeks) and my employment contract can be annulled.





First time posting; Kindly let me know if I neglected any vital information or made any mistakes. Down voters please explain why.










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  • 2





    Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

    – DarkCygnus
    9 hours ago













  • @DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

    – Singra
    8 hours ago











  • I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

    – DarkCygnus
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

    – HorusKol
    6 hours ago


















10















Today I had a code review at a new position I started almost 3 weeks ago. I was assigned a task working with my company's own CMS and a senior dev was supposed to do the code review.



My employer joined in during the review. While we were reviewing we came upon some sloppy mistakes on my end. Nervousness has lead me to neglect some obvious things; I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer for me.



My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!". At first I was unsure if he was serious I have never encountered this before (due note I am a junior at my position).



Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.



The team consists of my employer, 2 senior developers and myself as the recently joined junior developer. I know I'm still considered to be on trial period (first 4 weeks) and my employment contract can be annulled.





First time posting; Kindly let me know if I neglected any vital information or made any mistakes. Down voters please explain why.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Singra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 2





    Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

    – DarkCygnus
    9 hours ago













  • @DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

    – Singra
    8 hours ago











  • I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

    – DarkCygnus
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

    – HorusKol
    6 hours ago














10












10








10


1






Today I had a code review at a new position I started almost 3 weeks ago. I was assigned a task working with my company's own CMS and a senior dev was supposed to do the code review.



My employer joined in during the review. While we were reviewing we came upon some sloppy mistakes on my end. Nervousness has lead me to neglect some obvious things; I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer for me.



My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!". At first I was unsure if he was serious I have never encountered this before (due note I am a junior at my position).



Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.



The team consists of my employer, 2 senior developers and myself as the recently joined junior developer. I know I'm still considered to be on trial period (first 4 weeks) and my employment contract can be annulled.





First time posting; Kindly let me know if I neglected any vital information or made any mistakes. Down voters please explain why.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Singra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Today I had a code review at a new position I started almost 3 weeks ago. I was assigned a task working with my company's own CMS and a senior dev was supposed to do the code review.



My employer joined in during the review. While we were reviewing we came upon some sloppy mistakes on my end. Nervousness has lead me to neglect some obvious things; I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer for me.



My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!". At first I was unsure if he was serious I have never encountered this before (due note I am a junior at my position).



Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.



The team consists of my employer, 2 senior developers and myself as the recently joined junior developer. I know I'm still considered to be on trial period (first 4 weeks) and my employment contract can be annulled.





First time posting; Kindly let me know if I neglected any vital information or made any mistakes. Down voters please explain why.







new-job manager netherlands review degree






share|improve this question









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share|improve this question









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Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









jcmack

10.8k22553




10.8k22553






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asked 9 hours ago









SingraSingra

572




572




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  • 2





    Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

    – DarkCygnus
    9 hours ago













  • @DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

    – Singra
    8 hours ago











  • I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

    – DarkCygnus
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

    – HorusKol
    6 hours ago














  • 2





    Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

    – DarkCygnus
    9 hours ago













  • @DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

    – Singra
    8 hours ago











  • I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

    – DarkCygnus
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

    – HorusKol
    6 hours ago








2




2





Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

– DarkCygnus
9 hours ago







Any reason why you don't want to show your degree? welcome to TWP :)

– DarkCygnus
9 hours ago















@DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

– Singra
8 hours ago





@DarkCygnus no particular reason. I just never heard of anything like this happening.

– Singra
8 hours ago













I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

– DarkCygnus
8 hours ago





I included an answer for you to consider... let's see what other users have to say. IMHO, you got nothing to lose by showing it, so go for it. Although I do agree that this is something I haven't heard to happen before... in fact, during initial screening they should have validated your credentials and the degrees you said you had (so most likely they already know it)

– DarkCygnus
8 hours ago




1




1





Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

– HorusKol
6 hours ago





Personally, I'd bring in my degree certificate and a letter of resignation. There are much better bosses to work for out there.

– HorusKol
6 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















11















Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation.




The easiest solution for this is that you just show them your degree.



If you indeed have it you have nothing to lose by showing it, and that will satisfy their requirement; everyone happy.



I then suggest you try to handle those nervousness mistakes, and be more cautious when delivering a project. It's ok, you were unemployed and now you are not. That's great! I think you can now start to take it a bit more calmly, so you can truly focus on the job you are doing.






share|improve this answer



















  • 3





    What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

    – DaveG
    8 hours ago








  • 2





    @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

    – Upper_Case
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

    – teego1967
    6 hours ago






  • 1





    @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

    – DarkCygnus
    6 hours ago











  • @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

    – DaveG
    4 hours ago



















8















My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!".




One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone insist that you should have learned a certain topic in your degree program. Unless you took the same program with all of the same professors in all the same courses at the same time as that person, you can't possibly say for sure someone definitely should have this knowledge. While there are guidelines set forth by organizations such as ACM, computer science curriculum is not standardized at all. Also there are certain "core" computer science classes, but again not standardized.




Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.




Degree verification typically happens BEFORE not after a new hire starts. An employer is free to verify your information after you start should they suspect you lied on your application. But say I did terribly at a code review so terribly you question whether I had a degree at all. I comply and produce my degree but what does it really achieve? I am still terrible at writing code.



At the end of the day, given that this is your first job after being unemployed for a while, it is in your best interest to comply with the request to verify your degree. But I question this employer's long term ability to coach you to grow in your knowledge and expand your skills.






share|improve this answer

































    6















    I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer
    for me.




    and




    It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should
    comply.




    These two sentences don't really fit together. What's your goal here: save your job or make some point on principle.



    Make no mistake here: your job is in danger and if you care about this you should devote all effort to repair the damage and not complain about a simple ask (reasonable or not).



    Here is why they are asking: If you don't have the degree or misrepresented it, it's the quickest way to get you fired on the spot.



    What you should be doing is the following:




    1. Show them the degree and any supporting data that is relevant (thesis, grades, publications) that show you in a positive light

    2. Analyze how that bad code got written and plan what you will be doing differently to avoid any type of re-occurrence. How do you track requirements? What test methods do you use? What design patterns did you use and why did those not prevent the bad code, where they are any checklists or processes that you ignored or didn't work, etc

    3. Then go to your boss. Acknowledge your mistakes, don't sugar coat them, don't make excuses, just acknowledge.

    4. Present your analysis, what you have learned from the experience, and what your corrective plan will be.

    5. Ask for feedback. Do they think the analysis is correct, do they have alternative suggestions and what and how do change?

    6. Ask open ended "what else can I do to improve and make this up"


    Your best chance to keep your job is to create a credible story that this was a one-time occurrence, that you learned from it, and that some corrective actions are already in place.



    Making a fuzz about showing your degree is probably the worst thing you can do at the moment.






    share|improve this answer































      2














      Verifying degrees is a normal, but optional, step when hiring someone. Employers obviously want to be able verify their employees have the qualifications they claim to have, and it is in the best interests of colleges and universities to make this process easy.



      I have personally experienced organizations that required you to show up with your diploma on your first day and organizations that required verification through your educational institution's registrar before starting. This was simply a condition of employment and expected of everyone.



      You should:




      1. Produce your degree

      2. Be more careful






      share|improve this answer































        2














        Right now your boss is unhappy at you, and (as far as I can see) power-tripping at your expense. This is unpleasant, yes, but the fact is that he does have power over you, and you did screw up, in a way that disadvantages him. Practically, if you refuse to produce your degree, he'll have reason to fire you, and he probably will. Producing the degree, and suffering through the conversation around that, is, in effect, a minor submission ritual that you can use to placate your boss, with which you can ward off at least some of the unpleasantness. Things like this are often worth doing, when in situations like the one that you are in.



        If you want to keep this job, show him your degree, even if it's a bit of hassle to get the thing.






        share|improve this answer
























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          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes








          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          11















          Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation.




          The easiest solution for this is that you just show them your degree.



          If you indeed have it you have nothing to lose by showing it, and that will satisfy their requirement; everyone happy.



          I then suggest you try to handle those nervousness mistakes, and be more cautious when delivering a project. It's ok, you were unemployed and now you are not. That's great! I think you can now start to take it a bit more calmly, so you can truly focus on the job you are doing.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3





            What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

            – DaveG
            8 hours ago








          • 2





            @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

            – Upper_Case
            8 hours ago






          • 3





            It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

            – teego1967
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

            – DarkCygnus
            6 hours ago











          • @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

            – DaveG
            4 hours ago
















          11















          Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation.




          The easiest solution for this is that you just show them your degree.



          If you indeed have it you have nothing to lose by showing it, and that will satisfy their requirement; everyone happy.



          I then suggest you try to handle those nervousness mistakes, and be more cautious when delivering a project. It's ok, you were unemployed and now you are not. That's great! I think you can now start to take it a bit more calmly, so you can truly focus on the job you are doing.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3





            What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

            – DaveG
            8 hours ago








          • 2





            @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

            – Upper_Case
            8 hours ago






          • 3





            It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

            – teego1967
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

            – DarkCygnus
            6 hours ago











          • @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

            – DaveG
            4 hours ago














          11












          11








          11








          Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation.




          The easiest solution for this is that you just show them your degree.



          If you indeed have it you have nothing to lose by showing it, and that will satisfy their requirement; everyone happy.



          I then suggest you try to handle those nervousness mistakes, and be more cautious when delivering a project. It's ok, you were unemployed and now you are not. That's great! I think you can now start to take it a bit more calmly, so you can truly focus on the job you are doing.






          share|improve this answer














          Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation.




          The easiest solution for this is that you just show them your degree.



          If you indeed have it you have nothing to lose by showing it, and that will satisfy their requirement; everyone happy.



          I then suggest you try to handle those nervousness mistakes, and be more cautious when delivering a project. It's ok, you were unemployed and now you are not. That's great! I think you can now start to take it a bit more calmly, so you can truly focus on the job you are doing.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 9 hours ago









          DarkCygnusDarkCygnus

          41.1k1989173




          41.1k1989173








          • 3





            What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

            – DaveG
            8 hours ago








          • 2





            @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

            – Upper_Case
            8 hours ago






          • 3





            It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

            – teego1967
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

            – DarkCygnus
            6 hours ago











          • @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

            – DaveG
            4 hours ago














          • 3





            What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

            – DaveG
            8 hours ago








          • 2





            @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

            – Upper_Case
            8 hours ago






          • 3





            It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

            – teego1967
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

            – DarkCygnus
            6 hours ago











          • @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

            – DaveG
            4 hours ago








          3




          3





          What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

          – DaveG
          8 hours ago







          What he has to lose is having to deal with humiliation every time he makes a mistake. This may be the moment to say "hey, sorry I made some mistakes, but also sorry I'm not going to grovel".

          – DaveG
          8 hours ago






          2




          2





          @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

          – Upper_Case
          8 hours ago





          @DaveG How will that be avoided by not showing the degree, other than through simply being fired? The OP's boss is being an unprofessional jerk, no question. But the OP also stated they made some obvious and sloppy mistakes, and their position is that those are not representative of their skill. That's not an unreasonable thing to want to see some support for, though I don't think that showing a degree is a meaningful way to do it. This wouldn't be the first boss focused on a useless indicator...

          – Upper_Case
          8 hours ago




          3




          3





          It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

          – teego1967
          6 hours ago





          It's an incredibly bizarre and humiliating thing to ask for a degree (as in the sheet of paper). Never mind the fact that whatever the OP learned in college there's nothing on the degree that will demonstrate competency doing stuff on a custom CMS as a new employee 3 weeks in. Producing the degree won't make the boss "happy" either, it will just be an opportunity for him to further bully the OP. Do you really think the boss will be "happy" if the OP comes in with the degree?

          – teego1967
          6 hours ago




          1




          1





          @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

          – DarkCygnus
          6 hours ago





          @teego1967 boss explicitly asked for it a second time, not showing it would be going against a direct request from boss, and could get OP into trouble... but yes I agree with you that asking to show the degree is not a logical nor professional thing to ask

          – DarkCygnus
          6 hours ago













          @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

          – DaveG
          4 hours ago





          @DarkCygnus the problem as teego said is that digging up a college degree won't prove anything, and won't satisfy the sadistic boss. Digging up the degree will just be the start. The next demand will be just as crazy and humiliating. The time to stop this is now. Simply tell the boss "hey, I'm sorry for the problems, but I'm not digging up my degree". If the boss wants to make it a condition of employment, fine. There are other jobs in the world.

          – DaveG
          4 hours ago













          8















          My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!".




          One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone insist that you should have learned a certain topic in your degree program. Unless you took the same program with all of the same professors in all the same courses at the same time as that person, you can't possibly say for sure someone definitely should have this knowledge. While there are guidelines set forth by organizations such as ACM, computer science curriculum is not standardized at all. Also there are certain "core" computer science classes, but again not standardized.




          Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.




          Degree verification typically happens BEFORE not after a new hire starts. An employer is free to verify your information after you start should they suspect you lied on your application. But say I did terribly at a code review so terribly you question whether I had a degree at all. I comply and produce my degree but what does it really achieve? I am still terrible at writing code.



          At the end of the day, given that this is your first job after being unemployed for a while, it is in your best interest to comply with the request to verify your degree. But I question this employer's long term ability to coach you to grow in your knowledge and expand your skills.






          share|improve this answer






























            8















            My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!".




            One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone insist that you should have learned a certain topic in your degree program. Unless you took the same program with all of the same professors in all the same courses at the same time as that person, you can't possibly say for sure someone definitely should have this knowledge. While there are guidelines set forth by organizations such as ACM, computer science curriculum is not standardized at all. Also there are certain "core" computer science classes, but again not standardized.




            Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.




            Degree verification typically happens BEFORE not after a new hire starts. An employer is free to verify your information after you start should they suspect you lied on your application. But say I did terribly at a code review so terribly you question whether I had a degree at all. I comply and produce my degree but what does it really achieve? I am still terrible at writing code.



            At the end of the day, given that this is your first job after being unemployed for a while, it is in your best interest to comply with the request to verify your degree. But I question this employer's long term ability to coach you to grow in your knowledge and expand your skills.






            share|improve this answer




























              8












              8








              8








              My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!".




              One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone insist that you should have learned a certain topic in your degree program. Unless you took the same program with all of the same professors in all the same courses at the same time as that person, you can't possibly say for sure someone definitely should have this knowledge. While there are guidelines set forth by organizations such as ACM, computer science curriculum is not standardized at all. Also there are certain "core" computer science classes, but again not standardized.




              Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.




              Degree verification typically happens BEFORE not after a new hire starts. An employer is free to verify your information after you start should they suspect you lied on your application. But say I did terribly at a code review so terribly you question whether I had a degree at all. I comply and produce my degree but what does it really achieve? I am still terrible at writing code.



              At the end of the day, given that this is your first job after being unemployed for a while, it is in your best interest to comply with the request to verify your degree. But I question this employer's long term ability to coach you to grow in your knowledge and expand your skills.






              share|improve this answer
















              My employer was fairly upset and during the reviewing session openly mocked my education ("they must've taught you that") and my skills ("Do you not know that? Why do we have to explain this to you") also dropping the "well then I want to see your degree!".




              One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone insist that you should have learned a certain topic in your degree program. Unless you took the same program with all of the same professors in all the same courses at the same time as that person, you can't possibly say for sure someone definitely should have this knowledge. While there are guidelines set forth by organizations such as ACM, computer science curriculum is not standardized at all. Also there are certain "core" computer science classes, but again not standardized.




              Later that day I received a email reinforcing that he does in fact expect me to show up with my college degree. I am unsure how to handle this situation. I was fairly upset and angry at the time (did not act on it). It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should comply.




              Degree verification typically happens BEFORE not after a new hire starts. An employer is free to verify your information after you start should they suspect you lied on your application. But say I did terribly at a code review so terribly you question whether I had a degree at all. I comply and produce my degree but what does it really achieve? I am still terrible at writing code.



              At the end of the day, given that this is your first job after being unemployed for a while, it is in your best interest to comply with the request to verify your degree. But I question this employer's long term ability to coach you to grow in your knowledge and expand your skills.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 5 hours ago

























              answered 8 hours ago









              jcmackjcmack

              10.8k22553




              10.8k22553























                  6















                  I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer
                  for me.




                  and




                  It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should
                  comply.




                  These two sentences don't really fit together. What's your goal here: save your job or make some point on principle.



                  Make no mistake here: your job is in danger and if you care about this you should devote all effort to repair the damage and not complain about a simple ask (reasonable or not).



                  Here is why they are asking: If you don't have the degree or misrepresented it, it's the quickest way to get you fired on the spot.



                  What you should be doing is the following:




                  1. Show them the degree and any supporting data that is relevant (thesis, grades, publications) that show you in a positive light

                  2. Analyze how that bad code got written and plan what you will be doing differently to avoid any type of re-occurrence. How do you track requirements? What test methods do you use? What design patterns did you use and why did those not prevent the bad code, where they are any checklists or processes that you ignored or didn't work, etc

                  3. Then go to your boss. Acknowledge your mistakes, don't sugar coat them, don't make excuses, just acknowledge.

                  4. Present your analysis, what you have learned from the experience, and what your corrective plan will be.

                  5. Ask for feedback. Do they think the analysis is correct, do they have alternative suggestions and what and how do change?

                  6. Ask open ended "what else can I do to improve and make this up"


                  Your best chance to keep your job is to create a credible story that this was a one-time occurrence, that you learned from it, and that some corrective actions are already in place.



                  Making a fuzz about showing your degree is probably the worst thing you can do at the moment.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    6















                    I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer
                    for me.




                    and




                    It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should
                    comply.




                    These two sentences don't really fit together. What's your goal here: save your job or make some point on principle.



                    Make no mistake here: your job is in danger and if you care about this you should devote all effort to repair the damage and not complain about a simple ask (reasonable or not).



                    Here is why they are asking: If you don't have the degree or misrepresented it, it's the quickest way to get you fired on the spot.



                    What you should be doing is the following:




                    1. Show them the degree and any supporting data that is relevant (thesis, grades, publications) that show you in a positive light

                    2. Analyze how that bad code got written and plan what you will be doing differently to avoid any type of re-occurrence. How do you track requirements? What test methods do you use? What design patterns did you use and why did those not prevent the bad code, where they are any checklists or processes that you ignored or didn't work, etc

                    3. Then go to your boss. Acknowledge your mistakes, don't sugar coat them, don't make excuses, just acknowledge.

                    4. Present your analysis, what you have learned from the experience, and what your corrective plan will be.

                    5. Ask for feedback. Do they think the analysis is correct, do they have alternative suggestions and what and how do change?

                    6. Ask open ended "what else can I do to improve and make this up"


                    Your best chance to keep your job is to create a credible story that this was a one-time occurrence, that you learned from it, and that some corrective actions are already in place.



                    Making a fuzz about showing your degree is probably the worst thing you can do at the moment.






                    share|improve this answer


























                      6












                      6








                      6








                      I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer
                      for me.




                      and




                      It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should
                      comply.




                      These two sentences don't really fit together. What's your goal here: save your job or make some point on principle.



                      Make no mistake here: your job is in danger and if you care about this you should devote all effort to repair the damage and not complain about a simple ask (reasonable or not).



                      Here is why they are asking: If you don't have the degree or misrepresented it, it's the quickest way to get you fired on the spot.



                      What you should be doing is the following:




                      1. Show them the degree and any supporting data that is relevant (thesis, grades, publications) that show you in a positive light

                      2. Analyze how that bad code got written and plan what you will be doing differently to avoid any type of re-occurrence. How do you track requirements? What test methods do you use? What design patterns did you use and why did those not prevent the bad code, where they are any checklists or processes that you ignored or didn't work, etc

                      3. Then go to your boss. Acknowledge your mistakes, don't sugar coat them, don't make excuses, just acknowledge.

                      4. Present your analysis, what you have learned from the experience, and what your corrective plan will be.

                      5. Ask for feedback. Do they think the analysis is correct, do they have alternative suggestions and what and how do change?

                      6. Ask open ended "what else can I do to improve and make this up"


                      Your best chance to keep your job is to create a credible story that this was a one-time occurrence, that you learned from it, and that some corrective actions are already in place.



                      Making a fuzz about showing your degree is probably the worst thing you can do at the moment.






                      share|improve this answer














                      I've been unemployed for a long time and this job is a life changer
                      for me.




                      and




                      It feels like a very rude thing to say/ask and I'm unsure if I should
                      comply.




                      These two sentences don't really fit together. What's your goal here: save your job or make some point on principle.



                      Make no mistake here: your job is in danger and if you care about this you should devote all effort to repair the damage and not complain about a simple ask (reasonable or not).



                      Here is why they are asking: If you don't have the degree or misrepresented it, it's the quickest way to get you fired on the spot.



                      What you should be doing is the following:




                      1. Show them the degree and any supporting data that is relevant (thesis, grades, publications) that show you in a positive light

                      2. Analyze how that bad code got written and plan what you will be doing differently to avoid any type of re-occurrence. How do you track requirements? What test methods do you use? What design patterns did you use and why did those not prevent the bad code, where they are any checklists or processes that you ignored or didn't work, etc

                      3. Then go to your boss. Acknowledge your mistakes, don't sugar coat them, don't make excuses, just acknowledge.

                      4. Present your analysis, what you have learned from the experience, and what your corrective plan will be.

                      5. Ask for feedback. Do they think the analysis is correct, do they have alternative suggestions and what and how do change?

                      6. Ask open ended "what else can I do to improve and make this up"


                      Your best chance to keep your job is to create a credible story that this was a one-time occurrence, that you learned from it, and that some corrective actions are already in place.



                      Making a fuzz about showing your degree is probably the worst thing you can do at the moment.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 8 hours ago









                      HilmarHilmar

                      33.8k107497




                      33.8k107497























                          2














                          Verifying degrees is a normal, but optional, step when hiring someone. Employers obviously want to be able verify their employees have the qualifications they claim to have, and it is in the best interests of colleges and universities to make this process easy.



                          I have personally experienced organizations that required you to show up with your diploma on your first day and organizations that required verification through your educational institution's registrar before starting. This was simply a condition of employment and expected of everyone.



                          You should:




                          1. Produce your degree

                          2. Be more careful






                          share|improve this answer




























                            2














                            Verifying degrees is a normal, but optional, step when hiring someone. Employers obviously want to be able verify their employees have the qualifications they claim to have, and it is in the best interests of colleges and universities to make this process easy.



                            I have personally experienced organizations that required you to show up with your diploma on your first day and organizations that required verification through your educational institution's registrar before starting. This was simply a condition of employment and expected of everyone.



                            You should:




                            1. Produce your degree

                            2. Be more careful






                            share|improve this answer


























                              2












                              2








                              2







                              Verifying degrees is a normal, but optional, step when hiring someone. Employers obviously want to be able verify their employees have the qualifications they claim to have, and it is in the best interests of colleges and universities to make this process easy.



                              I have personally experienced organizations that required you to show up with your diploma on your first day and organizations that required verification through your educational institution's registrar before starting. This was simply a condition of employment and expected of everyone.



                              You should:




                              1. Produce your degree

                              2. Be more careful






                              share|improve this answer













                              Verifying degrees is a normal, but optional, step when hiring someone. Employers obviously want to be able verify their employees have the qualifications they claim to have, and it is in the best interests of colleges and universities to make this process easy.



                              I have personally experienced organizations that required you to show up with your diploma on your first day and organizations that required verification through your educational institution's registrar before starting. This was simply a condition of employment and expected of everyone.



                              You should:




                              1. Produce your degree

                              2. Be more careful







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 8 hours ago









                              mattmmattm

                              68928




                              68928























                                  2














                                  Right now your boss is unhappy at you, and (as far as I can see) power-tripping at your expense. This is unpleasant, yes, but the fact is that he does have power over you, and you did screw up, in a way that disadvantages him. Practically, if you refuse to produce your degree, he'll have reason to fire you, and he probably will. Producing the degree, and suffering through the conversation around that, is, in effect, a minor submission ritual that you can use to placate your boss, with which you can ward off at least some of the unpleasantness. Things like this are often worth doing, when in situations like the one that you are in.



                                  If you want to keep this job, show him your degree, even if it's a bit of hassle to get the thing.






                                  share|improve this answer




























                                    2














                                    Right now your boss is unhappy at you, and (as far as I can see) power-tripping at your expense. This is unpleasant, yes, but the fact is that he does have power over you, and you did screw up, in a way that disadvantages him. Practically, if you refuse to produce your degree, he'll have reason to fire you, and he probably will. Producing the degree, and suffering through the conversation around that, is, in effect, a minor submission ritual that you can use to placate your boss, with which you can ward off at least some of the unpleasantness. Things like this are often worth doing, when in situations like the one that you are in.



                                    If you want to keep this job, show him your degree, even if it's a bit of hassle to get the thing.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      2












                                      2








                                      2







                                      Right now your boss is unhappy at you, and (as far as I can see) power-tripping at your expense. This is unpleasant, yes, but the fact is that he does have power over you, and you did screw up, in a way that disadvantages him. Practically, if you refuse to produce your degree, he'll have reason to fire you, and he probably will. Producing the degree, and suffering through the conversation around that, is, in effect, a minor submission ritual that you can use to placate your boss, with which you can ward off at least some of the unpleasantness. Things like this are often worth doing, when in situations like the one that you are in.



                                      If you want to keep this job, show him your degree, even if it's a bit of hassle to get the thing.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      Right now your boss is unhappy at you, and (as far as I can see) power-tripping at your expense. This is unpleasant, yes, but the fact is that he does have power over you, and you did screw up, in a way that disadvantages him. Practically, if you refuse to produce your degree, he'll have reason to fire you, and he probably will. Producing the degree, and suffering through the conversation around that, is, in effect, a minor submission ritual that you can use to placate your boss, with which you can ward off at least some of the unpleasantness. Things like this are often worth doing, when in situations like the one that you are in.



                                      If you want to keep this job, show him your degree, even if it's a bit of hassle to get the thing.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 8 hours ago









                                      Ben BardenBen Barden

                                      10.6k82631




                                      10.6k82631






















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