Can the UK veto its own extension request?Why did the Tories in the UK cancel their bid to filibuster the...

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Can the UK veto its own extension request?


Why did the Tories in the UK cancel their bid to filibuster the anti-no deal Brexit deal?Could the EU rewrite Article 50 in an attempt to make it more difficult for the UK to Brexit?Veto power in the EUWhat's the point in holding a second Brexit referendum?Is EU Treaty Article 50 (2) paradoxical?What is the deadline if the UK wishes to apply for an extension to Article 50?Can an Article 50 extension take effect pending approval from national states?If the UK government doesn't ask for article 50 extension, can parliament do it instead?Could parliament ask the Queen to request an extension of EU membership?Has the EU published figures how much a month of article 50 extension costs?Can Boris Johnson request a Brexit extension to November 1st?






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}







11















Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.



Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?










share|improve this question






















  • 1





    No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

    – jl6
    7 hours ago











  • @jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago




















11















Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.



Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?










share|improve this question






















  • 1





    No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

    – jl6
    7 hours ago











  • @jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago
















11












11








11








Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.



Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?










share|improve this question
















Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.



Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?







united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 11 hours ago









JJJ

12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges




12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges










asked 15 hours ago









PelinorePelinore

6041 silver badge15 bronze badges




6041 silver badge15 bronze badges











  • 1





    No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

    – jl6
    7 hours ago











  • @jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago
















  • 1





    No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

    – jl6
    7 hours ago











  • @jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago










1




1





No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

– jl6
7 hours ago





No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...

– jl6
7 hours ago













@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

– Pelinore
6 hours ago







@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)

– Pelinore
6 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















21
















No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):





  1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
    intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
    negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
    withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
    agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
    Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
    Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

  2. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
    the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
    paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
    unanimously decides to extend this period.

  3. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
    Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.




So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.



Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):




"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."







share|improve this answer




























  • Cheers for the swift reply :)

    – Pelinore
    15 hours ago



















2
















It depends on your definition of "veto".



Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.



However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.



† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.






share|improve this answer


























  • So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

    – Pelinore
    7 hours ago













  • The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

    – Joe C
    7 hours ago











  • OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago














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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









21
















No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):





  1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
    intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
    negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
    withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
    agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
    Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
    Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

  2. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
    the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
    paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
    unanimously decides to extend this period.

  3. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
    Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.




So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.



Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):




"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."







share|improve this answer




























  • Cheers for the swift reply :)

    – Pelinore
    15 hours ago
















21
















No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):





  1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
    intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
    negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
    withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
    agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
    Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
    Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

  2. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
    the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
    paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
    unanimously decides to extend this period.

  3. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
    Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.




So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.



Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):




"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."







share|improve this answer




























  • Cheers for the swift reply :)

    – Pelinore
    15 hours ago














21














21










21









No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):





  1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
    intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
    negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
    withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
    agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
    Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
    Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

  2. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
    the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
    paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
    unanimously decides to extend this period.

  3. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
    Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.




So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.



Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):




"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."







share|improve this answer















No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):





  1. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
    intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
    negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
    withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
    agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
    Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
    Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

  2. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
    the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
    paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
    unanimously decides to extend this period.

  3. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
    Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
    the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.




So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.



Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):




"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."








share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 15 hours ago

























answered 15 hours ago









JJJJJJ

12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges




12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges
















  • Cheers for the swift reply :)

    – Pelinore
    15 hours ago



















  • Cheers for the swift reply :)

    – Pelinore
    15 hours ago

















Cheers for the swift reply :)

– Pelinore
15 hours ago





Cheers for the swift reply :)

– Pelinore
15 hours ago













2
















It depends on your definition of "veto".



Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.



However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.



† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.






share|improve this answer


























  • So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

    – Pelinore
    7 hours ago













  • The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

    – Joe C
    7 hours ago











  • OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago
















2
















It depends on your definition of "veto".



Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.



However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.



† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.






share|improve this answer


























  • So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

    – Pelinore
    7 hours ago













  • The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

    – Joe C
    7 hours ago











  • OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago














2














2










2









It depends on your definition of "veto".



Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.



However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.



† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.






share|improve this answer













It depends on your definition of "veto".



Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.



However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.



† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 9 hours ago









Joe CJoe C

7,71420 silver badges49 bronze badges




7,71420 silver badges49 bronze badges
















  • So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

    – Pelinore
    7 hours ago













  • The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

    – Joe C
    7 hours ago











  • OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago



















  • So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

    – Pelinore
    7 hours ago













  • The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

    – Joe C
    7 hours ago











  • OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

    – Pelinore
    6 hours ago

















So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

– Pelinore
7 hours ago







So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?

– Pelinore
7 hours ago















The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

– Joe C
7 hours ago





The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.

– Joe C
7 hours ago













OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

– Pelinore
6 hours ago





OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)

– Pelinore
6 hours ago



















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