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Can the UK veto its own extension request?
Why did the Tories in the UK cancel their bid to filibuster the anti-no deal Brexit deal?Could the EU rewrite Article 50 in an attempt to make it more difficult for the UK to Brexit?Veto power in the EUWhat's the point in holding a second Brexit referendum?Is EU Treaty Article 50 (2) paradoxical?What is the deadline if the UK wishes to apply for an extension to Article 50?Can an Article 50 extension take effect pending approval from national states?If the UK government doesn't ask for article 50 extension, can parliament do it instead?Could parliament ask the Queen to request an extension of EU membership?Has the EU published figures how much a month of article 50 extension costs?Can Boris Johnson request a Brexit extension to November 1st?
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Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.
Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?
united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council
add a comment |
Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.
Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?
united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council
1
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.
Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?
united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council
Every member of the EU has to agree any extension to article 50.
Does this mean the UK PM could (technically) use his vote in the European Council to veto his own request for an extension?
united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council
united-kingdom european-union brexit article-50 european-council
edited 11 hours ago
JJJ
12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges
12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges
asked 15 hours ago
PelinorePelinore
6041 silver badge15 bronze badges
6041 silver badge15 bronze badges
1
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
1
1
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.
Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):
"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on your definition of "veto".
Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.
However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent†. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.
† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.
Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):
"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
add a comment |
No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.
Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):
"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
add a comment |
No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.
Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):
"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."
No, by paragraph 4 of article 50 (citing 2 and 3 as well because 4 refers back to those):
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
So specifically, the last part excludes the UK from participating in discussions of extension as well as negotiating and concluding an agreement on behalf of the EU Council.
Or as the author of Article 50, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, puts it in an interview with Politico (regarding paragraph four):
"It’s very important that Britain is not a third country throughout the whole process of the Article 50 negotiation. Up to the moment when we leave, we are a full member. Therefore you have to have sub-paragraph four, saying that when they’re talking about the divorce, the Brits won’t be in the room and if they are in the room, they won’t be voting."
edited 15 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
JJJJJJ
12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges
12.3k4 gold badges39 silver badges80 bronze badges
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
add a comment |
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
Cheers for the swift reply :)
– Pelinore
15 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on your definition of "veto".
Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.
However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent†. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.
† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on your definition of "veto".
Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.
However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent†. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.
† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on your definition of "veto".
Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.
However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent†. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.
† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.
It depends on your definition of "veto".
Under Article 50(4), the UK does not have a vote in the discussions on whether or not the European Council offers an extension. Thus, in the strictest sense, the UK does not have a veto.
However, under Article 50(3), the extension cannot take place without the UK's consent†. Declining any extension offered can be considered, for all intents and purposes, as effective as a veto.
† The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 limits the power of the UK Prime Minister to decline an extension offered before 31 October 2019.
answered 9 hours ago
Joe CJoe C
7,71420 silver badges49 bronze badges
7,71420 silver badges49 bronze badges
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
So a "yes, but" in your view then? then I suppose the follow up question would be does the brexit delay bill as passed into law (I've been unable to determine if any amendments were made b4 it was, so I suspect not) allow any way for the PM to declining (or otherwise avoid accepting) an extension if the EU offers one?
– Pelinore
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
The PM would be allowed to decline an extension if (a) the extension is to some other date than 31 January at 23:00 GMT, and (b) the House of Commons votes against approving said extension.
– Joe C
7 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
OK, so an effective 'no' answer to the follow up question then :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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1
No, but the UK is relatively wealthy so the PM could potentially bribe/incentivize another member state to use their veto...
– jl6
7 hours ago
@jl6 : I like it, doesn't seem plausible though, can't think 'who' in the EU might be amenable to 'incentives' :)
– Pelinore
6 hours ago