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Whence the -s- in “Stöpsel”

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3

The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.

The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:

• The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.



• 
  
  • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
  
  



• -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.



• 
  
  • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
  
  



• -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".



• 
  
  • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
  
  

Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.

etymology

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

vectory

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's basically a diminutive.
  
  – πάντα ῥεῖ
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
  
  – Jan
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
  
  – vectory
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

3

The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.

The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:

• The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.



• 
  
  • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
  
  



• -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.



• 
  
  • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
  
  



• -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".



• 
  
  • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
  
  

Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.

etymology

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

vectory

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's basically a diminutive.
  
  – πάντα ῥεῖ
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Bübele doesn’t sound Bavarian at all. Maybe Swabian or Franconian.
  
  – Jan
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Jan, ah yes, that would be the Bub'
  
  – vectory
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

The usual sources only say that "Stöpsel" was from "Low German", akin to "stop". I was wondering about the suffix.

The question arose wondering whether En "stop" is cognate, but it is interesting to me because of the several alternatives I have in mind:

• The word is a doublette of "Stopfen", in which the f seems to be from the second consonant shift, in which Low German "Appel" did not participate; The s is probably not from f. Alas, I have no older material at hand to compare, and so, as the Original root is linked to PIE *stew- (cp e.g. "Stau") I wonder whether labial w was completely lost. A Stopfen is also something woven to fix holes in clothes, hence Stoff "textile" seems close.



• 
  
  • That is a very unlikely avenue, in my book. w did not regularly fricate, nor was it subject to metathesis (wp > pw?), nor did f regularly become f in any case, that I know of.
  
  



• -l also appears like a diminutive suffix, e.g. in "Madl" (Mädchen, Magd), "Bübele", that is popular in Bavarian, in Yiddish, but perhaps also Saxon, or anywhere.



• 
  
  • This does not explain the s. I wonder also whether stub, stubbble, Stumpf, Stoppel belong here or below:
  
  



• -l alpears as instrumental suffix in needle, paddle, and involved *-th, thus its deemed an explanation of the illusive *threshold. German s and z are allophone in Ablaut due to Auslautverhärtung, and z generally corresponds to *t (Zahn ~ tooth). pt is generally not phonemic in German, but cp eg "Klapptisch".



• 
  
  • Nothing fits together in this one. The documentation in wiktionary isn't great ([[threshold]] still shows a redlink for the suffix), and my memory is even worse.
  
  

Since this is all very messy, I'd appreciate anyone who can give me a clearer picture.

etymology

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

vectory

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

vectory

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

vectory

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

9391010 bronze badges

asked 10 hours ago

vectoryvectory

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1 Answer
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6

The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
  
  – Dan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
  
  – vectory
  54 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

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6

The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
  
  – Dan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
  
  – vectory
  54 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

6

The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A cognate to the English "dam-sel"?
  
  – Dan
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Dan apparently not, following the links from mademoiselle we see PGem *-ilaz > Ger -el, with e.g. Schlüssel, Flügel, Wimpel, Wurzel, En. barrel, though the etymology is apparently uncertain. Which makes me wonder how certain this answer really is.
  
  – vectory
  54 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

The suffix is "-sel", which according
to Grimm is a variant of "-sal".
The German suffix "-sel" forms nouns from verbs,
it is a cognate of Old English "-else" and Swedish "-else" [Wiktionary] and derived from Proto-Germanic "*-isliją" [Wiktionary].

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

UweUwe

8,31322 gold badges2929 silver badges4141 bronze badges