Is this homebrew life-stealing melee cantrip unbalanced?Is this version of a melee weapon attack cantrip...

Casual versus formal jacket

Father and Son and Grandsons

What happens to matryoshka Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansions?

Sed Usage to update GRUB file

I caught several of my students plagiarizing. Could it be my fault as a teacher?

In Endgame, why were these characters still around?

Airbnb - host wants to reduce rooms, can we get refund?

How do I tell my manager that his code review comment is wrong?

SQL Server Management Studio SSMS 18.0 General Availability release (GA) install fails

Missed the connecting flight, separate tickets on same airline - who is responsible?

Which industry am I working in? Software development or financial services?

Is induction neccessary for proving that every injective mapping of a finite set into itself is a mapping onto itself?

What are the differences between credential stuffing and password spraying?

What actually is the vector of angular momentum?

Why is C# in the D Major Scale?

What word means "to make something obsolete"?

Is this homebrew life-stealing melee cantrip unbalanced?

When and why did journal article titles become descriptive, rather than creatively allusive?

Do I really need diodes to receive MIDI?

CRT Oscilloscope - part of the plot is missing

How to reply this mail from potential PhD professor?

Why do money exchangers give different rates to different bills?

Is there a term for the words whose stress is on the first syllable?

My ID is expired, can I fly to the Bahamas with my passport?



Is this homebrew life-stealing melee cantrip unbalanced?


Is this version of a melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?Is this homebrew paralysing dagger balanced?Is this werewolf homebrew race balanced?Is there a reason this homebrew spell wouldn't work with the Attack action?Is this homebrew Dartmaster class balanced compared to the other PHB classes?Does this cantrip have a fair risk/reward balance?What should the rarity rating be for this homebrew Healing Brick?Is this homebrew Circle of Flames/Chaos subclass for druids balanced?Is this homebrew Elementalist Fighter class balanced?What is the rarity of this homebrew magic staff, “Blackthorn”?Is this version of a melee weapon attack cantrip balanced?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







7












$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if




  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets


are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
    $endgroup$
    – Xalbek
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago


















7












$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if




  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets


are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
    $endgroup$
    – Xalbek
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago














7












7








7





$begingroup$


I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if




  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets


are enough to make it balanced?










share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I started thinking about a variant of a melee attack cantrip like booming blade that would allow you to regain some lost health. The cantrip I came up with is this:




Evocation cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous



As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.



On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, plus 1d4 necrotic damage. The target makes a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failure, you heal for an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. On a success, nothing else happens.



The spell's damage increases as you reach higher levels.



The necrotic damage increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level, for a total of 2d4 damage. This damage increases by 1d4 at 11th level and again at 17th level.




The issue with this cantrip is that the DMG (p. 284) clearly says that a cantrip shouldn't offer healing.



So the question is if




  • a low extra damage/healing output,

  • a Constitution saving throw

  • and the possible addendum of resolving the weapon attack damage first, as to prevent the PC from abusing it on wildlife and easy targets


are enough to make it balanced?







dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips






share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 24 mins ago









V2Blast

28.3k5102172




28.3k5102172






New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 6 hours ago









CrazyRabitCrazyRabit

373




373




New contributor




CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






CrazyRabit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
    $endgroup$
    – Xalbek
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago














  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
    $endgroup$
    – Xalbek
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What class or classes would you give it to?
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
    $endgroup$
    – Riker
    2 hours ago








4




4




$begingroup$
Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Please don't edit with updates after answers come in. You can this meta on how to ask a good homebrew question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Also, welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
$endgroup$
– Xalbek
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
If anything, I'd suggest making it only add temporary HP that expires quickly, similar to false life.
$endgroup$
– Xalbek
4 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
What class or classes would you give it to?
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
What class or classes would you give it to?
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
2 hours ago












$begingroup$
I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
$endgroup$
– Riker
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
I've tried to reword this to match the definition of another cantrip like booming blade, and I made it an evocation cantrip (since that's what this is, I believe). You should probably clarify what classes this is for though.
$endgroup$
– Riker
2 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















16












$begingroup$

It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:




  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).


A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    6 hours ago



















13












$begingroup$

Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    21 mins ago












Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});






CrazyRabit is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147198%2fis-this-homebrew-life-stealing-melee-cantrip-unbalanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









16












$begingroup$

It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:




  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).


A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    6 hours ago
















16












$begingroup$

It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:




  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).


A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    6 hours ago














16












16








16





$begingroup$

It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:




  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).


A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



It's probably unbalanced.



Let's take a look at what other things allow you to restore hit points at first level:




  • Cure Wounds (requires a spell slot and action, restores 1d8 + change).

  • Healing Potion (costs 50 gp, requires an action, restores 2d4+2).

  • Goodberry (requires an action, restores 1 hp).

  • Healing Word (requires a bonus action and spell slot, restores 1d4 + change).


A cantrip that lets you use the same action to both make an attack and also heal up to 4 hp is certainly more powerful than any of these options for 1st level characters. A cantrip that lets you heal for even 1 hp would be strictly superior to a Short Rest, so probably even that would unbalance the game a little.



As you've written this spell, it should be at least a 1st level spell.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 6 hours ago









ApocalispApocalisp

3,3241142




3,3241142












  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    6 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
    $endgroup$
    – Slagmoth
    6 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
$endgroup$
– CrazyRabit
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Yeah thought so too and added stuff...
$endgroup$
– CrazyRabit
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Comparison to Spare the Dying as a contrip might be helpful compared to Cure Minor from 3.X.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
6 hours ago













13












$begingroup$

Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    21 mins ago
















13












$begingroup$

Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    21 mins ago














13












13








13





$begingroup$

Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Definitely unbalanced



I can only speculate as to designer intent, but the mentioned admonition from DMG is likely because healing should consume resources, putting a practical limit on the amount of healing that can be done each day. As such, there is unlikely to be any extenuating circumstance that might balance a cantrip (no resource use) that allows healing.



What you might be able to get away with is changing the healing component of your cantril to Temporary Hit Points. Even getting temps so easily could be unbalanced (most other sources of temps are either spells (False Life) or class features (Dark One's Blessing, which also requires killing the target rather than just hitting it), so the spell is probably still unbalanced, though the Con save requirement might help. You might also add the limitation that the caster can only benefit from these temps once per creature damaged with the cantrip.



Further, note that the other weapon based cantrips (Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade) don't provide their additional damage until some other condition is met (adjacent targets or the target voluntarily moves). Guaranteed additional damage, even just a d4, might be unbalanced, even without the heal/temp component. As such the Con save should prevent the extra damage completely.



Two options would thus be:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. On a failed save, the
creature takes 1d4 necrotic damage and you gain the same amount of
temp HP. You may only gain this temp HP once per 24 hours from any
given creature.




Or:




On a hit, the creature must attempt a Con save. If the creature fails
the save, it takes 1d4 necrotic damage and, the target's soul is
marked. If the creature dies within the next minute, you gain 1d4 temp
HP. Each creature may only be marked once in this fashion, additional
failed saves merely reset the one minute duration of the mark.




Either option restricts the benefit to once per creature (similar to DOB), and places the additional damage behind a condition (the Con save). The damage and temp HP could probably be raised to a d6 without significantly unbalancing the cantrip at this point. Since temp HP can't stack, the cantrip is more difficult to exploit, and the first option (immediate temps) is more powerful by far (allowing you to benefit multiple times per combat, similar to DOB).







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 6 hours ago









cpcodescpcodes

2,092222




2,092222












  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    21 mins ago


















  • $begingroup$
    I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
    $endgroup$
    – CrazyRabit
    2 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    21 mins ago
















$begingroup$
I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
$endgroup$
– CrazyRabit
2 hours ago






$begingroup$
I like the idea of temp hit points, probably let them expire after 1 minute. Change the damage to nothing extra on first level and temp 1d4 if creature dies within 1 minute, then add dice on 5th, 11th and 17th, 1d8 for damage and extra 1d4 for temp... I'm gonna let this post cook for a while and add a new one later
$endgroup$
– CrazyRabit
2 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
@crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@crazyribit even better would be to play test before posting to get some actual play outside of the theoretical here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
21 mins ago




$begingroup$
Since temporary hit points never stack, it'd only ever be a small buffer against damage rather than a source of infinite healing. Definitely an improvement over the original.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
21 mins ago










CrazyRabit is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










draft saved

draft discarded


















CrazyRabit is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













CrazyRabit is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












CrazyRabit is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147198%2fis-this-homebrew-life-stealing-melee-cantrip-unbalanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown