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Boss wants me to ignore a software API license
How can I approach management when asked to work without a software license?How do I approach my boss about licensing concerns he has already dismissed onceHow can I persuade my boss to license the software I need to use?Software license not valid in my country; how to handle being asked to use it anyways?Co-worker team leader wants to inject his friend's awful software into our development. What should I say to our common boss?Boss wants me to falsify a report. How should I document this unethical demand?My boss wants to get rid of me - what should I do?
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I am a software developer at a European company.
My boss wants me to develop some software that consumes an external API and stores the received data in our own database.
The policy of the external API clearly does not allow this but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Still I am really uncomfortable with this and probably won't do this.
My boss knows that it is not allowed but still wants me to implement this feature.
What should I do?
Update:
Since a lot of people here are speculating about what kind of API would not allow the data to be stored (which is irrelevant IMHO) - I can confirm that the external API is billed per request and clearly does not allow any caching, permanent storage.
ethics software-development legal
New contributor
|
show 1 more comment
I am a software developer at a European company.
My boss wants me to develop some software that consumes an external API and stores the received data in our own database.
The policy of the external API clearly does not allow this but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Still I am really uncomfortable with this and probably won't do this.
My boss knows that it is not allowed but still wants me to implement this feature.
What should I do?
Update:
Since a lot of people here are speculating about what kind of API would not allow the data to be stored (which is irrelevant IMHO) - I can confirm that the external API is billed per request and clearly does not allow any caching, permanent storage.
ethics software-development legal
New contributor
3
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
11
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
9
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
4
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
I am a software developer at a European company.
My boss wants me to develop some software that consumes an external API and stores the received data in our own database.
The policy of the external API clearly does not allow this but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Still I am really uncomfortable with this and probably won't do this.
My boss knows that it is not allowed but still wants me to implement this feature.
What should I do?
Update:
Since a lot of people here are speculating about what kind of API would not allow the data to be stored (which is irrelevant IMHO) - I can confirm that the external API is billed per request and clearly does not allow any caching, permanent storage.
ethics software-development legal
New contributor
I am a software developer at a European company.
My boss wants me to develop some software that consumes an external API and stores the received data in our own database.
The policy of the external API clearly does not allow this but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Still I am really uncomfortable with this and probably won't do this.
My boss knows that it is not allowed but still wants me to implement this feature.
What should I do?
Update:
Since a lot of people here are speculating about what kind of API would not allow the data to be stored (which is irrelevant IMHO) - I can confirm that the external API is billed per request and clearly does not allow any caching, permanent storage.
ethics software-development legal
ethics software-development legal
New contributor
New contributor
edited yesterday
RolfZ
New contributor
asked Aug 12 at 13:43
RolfZRolfZ
4972 gold badges2 silver badges5 bronze badges
4972 gold badges2 silver badges5 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
3
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
11
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
9
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
4
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
3
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
11
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
9
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
4
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday
3
3
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
11
11
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
9
9
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
4
4
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
Get it in writing. Save a copy of said confirmation away from company hardware.
Violating software and service licenses are the kind of thing that, if they are caught, can really screw over a company. They will want someone to blame and an unscrupulous windbag will end up deleting any emails on the company servers related to their 'request' and make you their scapegoat.
Take the initiative and email your boss asking for confirmation, laying out exactly what they asked you to do. BCC a personal email account or save the email to a USB drive (whichever is safer). Ditto with any responses you receive. From there, you can choose to either get in contact with higher ups, Federation Against Software Theft (a piracy resource, but intentional license violations are pretty much treated as this anyway), or the service provider themselves.
Bear in mind that the first can wind up with you getting punished if the higher ups let your boss know, the second can trigger a witch-hunt (FAST generally do not give information about informants, but if your company are unscrupulous, they WILL be looking for who did what) and the third can lead to wasted work as your company's account gets perma-banned over the infraction soon after the code is up and running.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Like anything that touches on ethical considerations, you need to be prepared for the repercussions from your decisions.
If your company has a legal department, I would consider starting there. What you are doing is a violation of the terms of service of the API and could result in problems for your organization. This can help you get additional eyes on the terms and policies of the API creator to ensure that everyone understands them.
If your manager refuses to understand the possible implications of this, you have a few options, but no one can tell you which one you can or should do:
- If your organization has an Ethics hotline or service, they may be able to accept anonymous questions or concerns and provide guidance on what to do.
- You can go along with it and you would need to live with your decision.
- You can refuse and deal with the outcomes which may result in an inability to move up in your organization or even termination.
- You can resign and refuse to be part of an unethical organization.
- You may be able to reach out to the API creator to clarify the terms of service and, if your company is indeed violating them, self-report it - perhaps there's room for agreement, or the API creator can block your company's access to the API.
The ethical thing, according to the various software engineering codes of ethics that I'm familiar with, is to ensure that the API isn't misused and you comply with the terms of service. However, if you are relying on this job for money or benefits to support yourself and your family and losing it without something lined up would put you into an unsustainable position, I don't believe that anyone would find fault with your actions.
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
|
show 9 more comments
but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Don't be so sure. Companies serving popular data (maps, etc.) where there are acceptable-use policies relating to mass-downloading will often have some kind of detection mechanism in place to enforce those policies. Too many requests from the same IP address, or anything which looks like that, and you're liable to trip out those mechanisms. The result could vary from throttling, to a cutoff for the next 24 hours, to a full block.
You, your boss, and the rest of your team need to assess what happens to your product/site in the event of this third party turning off the tap. If the result would be fatal for your business, then your boss clearly has some figuring-out to do. Perhaps you need to rearchitect your product/site somehow to follow the API without the mass download. Perhaps you need to pay for a license to allow mass downloading (this is usually how these places make their money). Or perhaps your boss puts the company on the line. Whatever the answer is, the technical team need to give him options and he has to make a call.
And if your boss is not the business owner, then your boss needs to escalate the final decision. He can recommend a decision, but if the outcome could be fatal to the business then he should be smart enough to get buy-in from higher up. If he isn't, then you and your team need to escalate it yourselves.
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
add a comment |
It comes down to your personal convictions.
From what I understand the misuse of the API does not appear to be a criminal offense (please don't just take my word for it, get legal advice to be sure). However, make sure that the collection and storage of data that your software is performing is legal. In Europe there are strict data privacy laws (GDPR), especially when it come to collecting data on people. The policy of the API may very well be to prevent the illegal collection of data.
People have different personal convictions and some are more ethical than others. As long as the data being collected is legal, you will have a hard time convincing your boss to take the route that you see as ethical. You have to realize that, depending on their culture and personal convictions, your boss might not view the misuse of an API as something unethical.
As I see it you have a few options:
You can obey your boss and use the API against its policy. Be aware that this is not likely to be a one time thing and more requests like this are likely to come in the future. The more of them you say yes to the harder it gets to say no down the line.
You can refuse to use the API against it's policy. This will likely not sit well with your boss, with the extreme case being that you might lose your job.
You can suggest an alternative solution. It probably requires some creativity but you might even find an API where it's not against their policy to implement it in the way your boss is asking of you. This has the potential of not upsetting your boss (too much) while allowing you to stick to your convictions.
In your case I would suggest giving all you have to make option 3 work, only resorting to 1 or 2 if all else fails.
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
add a comment |
You haven't given enough information in your question to determine whether your boss's request is unethical and/or illegal and/or in breach of their contract/ToS with another party. These are all vastly different matters that you should treat differently.
If the request is illegal, you should not do it on your employer's behalf, even if you don't think it's particularly unethical. When they're caught, they'll make you the scapegoat. You can refuse to take part (and, depending on jurisdiction, probably have protection if they retaliate against you for this), but you might still find yourself working in a hostile environment, or out of a job if the fallout brings down the company.
If the request is unethical - for an example fitting your scenario, think of scraping people's photos from social media or personal info from dating profiles in a jurisdiction where doing so isn't illegal - then in my opinion you shouldn't do it, but you might lack protection in your refusal to do so. You should probably consult a lawyer.
If the request is merely in violation of your employer's contract or terms of service with another party, but not illegal or unethical, then in my opinion there's little reason not to go along with it. You might want to consult a lawyer first and ensure that there could be no cause of action for tortious interference on your part. (Note: IANAL but that's my guess at the most relevant area of law.) But otherwise it's their matter, not yours. For what it's worth, lots of APIs' terms of service are borderline unethical and unenforceable to begin with.
add a comment |
You've raised this as a concern and have your manager's instructions in writing that you're to code the API as the requirements stand (and against the API's documented guidelines).
They also have fully indicated their understanding that the code might well break when and if the API is updated to close this vulnerability/backdoor.
If so, you may as well carry out the instructions and code.
When and if things go sour, you'll be ready to change that code, so bear this in mind with your intended development path to make the rectification easier in the future.
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
add a comment |
You should contact an employment lawyer immediately, explain the situation, and ask for some quick advice.
A few things did not seem so clear from the question such as how serious the violation would be, whether or not it should be considered "illegal", whether or not this would really violate GDPR, etc. It does sounds at least like a violation of good ethics in the workplace. This answer is now edited to address the question regardless of how serious the violation would be.
You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer, especially in violating GDPR and copyright. Otherwise you could be liable for any such compromise or violations in the future. And you should probably quit on the spot to avoid being fired "for cause".
This does not apply for directives or procedures that may be not the most efficient or most modern. This is only about law and ethics.
No company should ever make its employees break the law.
When looking for a new job, you can always say that you refused to break the law or compromise on good ethics, and I think there are many, many companies that want this kind of an employee.
New contributor
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
add a comment |
Consider contacting the API licence owner
Whilst it's an extremely good idea to cover yourself legally and get it in writing, an alternative solution, which I note hasn't been suggested, is perhaps to take a proactive approach with regards to the situation which avoids a rock and hard place situation.
That is to say, you might want to consider approaching the API licence owner, and asking them directly for permission to conduct a single mass download. The API licence owner's response may range from giving you permission for free simply for asking politely, to specifying a licence fee (which, depending on price, you may opt to cover yourself to avoid hassle, file it as an expense or refer it to your manager), to an outright explicit refusal.
The chance the dataset owner may offer the one-off mass download for free (which may be the case in some open source or smaller, private communities), or offering a reasonable price makes contacting the API licence owner a reasonable course of action.
Worst case scenario is they say no, which simply leaves you in the same situation you're in now. Talking with them however may open other options.
add a comment |
You don't know your company doesn't have or couldn't get an agreement to mass scrape.
So distance yourself as much as possible by getting the instruction in writing, keeping it offsite, and make darn sure that none of the API accounts that scrape have your name on them anywhere.
Now, there are two ways to go in a scrape. One is to crawl softly, with sleep()
's in the loop to minimize server-side impact. The other is to go whole-hog for max throughput, even spawning multiple threads so you don't have to wait for a response before sending another query. Both are valid concepts, but in this case I recommend you implement the second one masterfully, as if it was the only/obvious way to do things. Like it never occurred to you that the other company's server load might be an issue.
In other words, since you are obliged to implement it, I recommend don't even hide.
At that point, it's on the other company to notice the jump in server activity and investigate. This is surely not their first rodeo, even if it is your company's.
The result of them noticing is a big bag of "not your problem". You certainly hope and expect that they will go "oh, this is client ID J12345, they have a site license to scrape this data". Regardless, not your problem.
add a comment |
You may be over-thinking here (again, depending on the specifics). Many API providers will simply start refusing the request if they notice you going over a free tier or some level that they are willing to give away. At that point you'll need an API license. Basically, don't get too hung up over the ethics here, because its very likely the API provider is very aware of what its 'giving away' and what its requiring people to pay for.
add a comment |
I can think of three possible responses:
- Challenge: Say, "I need a written and signed order to do this on physical paper before I will do it." Now his claim that it's okay for YOU to do the job runs into his own sense of self-preservation.
- Passive: Say, "It's going to take me X months to do that" where X is several times longer than you can really do it. This will be a strong hint to him that he's better off finding someone else to do it.
- Direct: Say, "Sorry, but I can't do that. It goes against my beliefs to ignore the terms of use."
Now any of these options may result in your boss taking action against you. Even if he seems to fully accept your response on day 1, days/weeks later he could start a campaign to harass you.
Let's say that you don't help the boss do this project but he gets it done anyhow. You're still working at a company that is blatantly going against your ethical standards. How will you feel about that? If you won't feel good then it's may be time to look for another job because most likely the boss is going to get the project done regardless of your involvement.
Something else for you to consider: Lawyers write the terms but the business and technical people at the other company may be 100% okay with your company doing what your boss wants. If your company is caching data that the API company doesn't sell per request then it's harmless. Although in my experience, someone in tech at your company should discuss with someone technical at the other company before assuming that you'll be able to do business this way since the API can be switched off (deny you access) at any time for any reason typically. And that's probably bad for your business.
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
add a comment |
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Get it in writing. Save a copy of said confirmation away from company hardware.
Violating software and service licenses are the kind of thing that, if they are caught, can really screw over a company. They will want someone to blame and an unscrupulous windbag will end up deleting any emails on the company servers related to their 'request' and make you their scapegoat.
Take the initiative and email your boss asking for confirmation, laying out exactly what they asked you to do. BCC a personal email account or save the email to a USB drive (whichever is safer). Ditto with any responses you receive. From there, you can choose to either get in contact with higher ups, Federation Against Software Theft (a piracy resource, but intentional license violations are pretty much treated as this anyway), or the service provider themselves.
Bear in mind that the first can wind up with you getting punished if the higher ups let your boss know, the second can trigger a witch-hunt (FAST generally do not give information about informants, but if your company are unscrupulous, they WILL be looking for who did what) and the third can lead to wasted work as your company's account gets perma-banned over the infraction soon after the code is up and running.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Get it in writing. Save a copy of said confirmation away from company hardware.
Violating software and service licenses are the kind of thing that, if they are caught, can really screw over a company. They will want someone to blame and an unscrupulous windbag will end up deleting any emails on the company servers related to their 'request' and make you their scapegoat.
Take the initiative and email your boss asking for confirmation, laying out exactly what they asked you to do. BCC a personal email account or save the email to a USB drive (whichever is safer). Ditto with any responses you receive. From there, you can choose to either get in contact with higher ups, Federation Against Software Theft (a piracy resource, but intentional license violations are pretty much treated as this anyway), or the service provider themselves.
Bear in mind that the first can wind up with you getting punished if the higher ups let your boss know, the second can trigger a witch-hunt (FAST generally do not give information about informants, but if your company are unscrupulous, they WILL be looking for who did what) and the third can lead to wasted work as your company's account gets perma-banned over the infraction soon after the code is up and running.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Snow♦
23 hours ago
add a comment |
Get it in writing. Save a copy of said confirmation away from company hardware.
Violating software and service licenses are the kind of thing that, if they are caught, can really screw over a company. They will want someone to blame and an unscrupulous windbag will end up deleting any emails on the company servers related to their 'request' and make you their scapegoat.
Take the initiative and email your boss asking for confirmation, laying out exactly what they asked you to do. BCC a personal email account or save the email to a USB drive (whichever is safer). Ditto with any responses you receive. From there, you can choose to either get in contact with higher ups, Federation Against Software Theft (a piracy resource, but intentional license violations are pretty much treated as this anyway), or the service provider themselves.
Bear in mind that the first can wind up with you getting punished if the higher ups let your boss know, the second can trigger a witch-hunt (FAST generally do not give information about informants, but if your company are unscrupulous, they WILL be looking for who did what) and the third can lead to wasted work as your company's account gets perma-banned over the infraction soon after the code is up and running.
Get it in writing. Save a copy of said confirmation away from company hardware.
Violating software and service licenses are the kind of thing that, if they are caught, can really screw over a company. They will want someone to blame and an unscrupulous windbag will end up deleting any emails on the company servers related to their 'request' and make you their scapegoat.
Take the initiative and email your boss asking for confirmation, laying out exactly what they asked you to do. BCC a personal email account or save the email to a USB drive (whichever is safer). Ditto with any responses you receive. From there, you can choose to either get in contact with higher ups, Federation Against Software Theft (a piracy resource, but intentional license violations are pretty much treated as this anyway), or the service provider themselves.
Bear in mind that the first can wind up with you getting punished if the higher ups let your boss know, the second can trigger a witch-hunt (FAST generally do not give information about informants, but if your company are unscrupulous, they WILL be looking for who did what) and the third can lead to wasted work as your company's account gets perma-banned over the infraction soon after the code is up and running.
answered Aug 12 at 13:57
520520
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6,9471 gold badge10 silver badges32 bronze badges
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23 hours ago
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Like anything that touches on ethical considerations, you need to be prepared for the repercussions from your decisions.
If your company has a legal department, I would consider starting there. What you are doing is a violation of the terms of service of the API and could result in problems for your organization. This can help you get additional eyes on the terms and policies of the API creator to ensure that everyone understands them.
If your manager refuses to understand the possible implications of this, you have a few options, but no one can tell you which one you can or should do:
- If your organization has an Ethics hotline or service, they may be able to accept anonymous questions or concerns and provide guidance on what to do.
- You can go along with it and you would need to live with your decision.
- You can refuse and deal with the outcomes which may result in an inability to move up in your organization or even termination.
- You can resign and refuse to be part of an unethical organization.
- You may be able to reach out to the API creator to clarify the terms of service and, if your company is indeed violating them, self-report it - perhaps there's room for agreement, or the API creator can block your company's access to the API.
The ethical thing, according to the various software engineering codes of ethics that I'm familiar with, is to ensure that the API isn't misused and you comply with the terms of service. However, if you are relying on this job for money or benefits to support yourself and your family and losing it without something lined up would put you into an unsustainable position, I don't believe that anyone would find fault with your actions.
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
|
show 9 more comments
Like anything that touches on ethical considerations, you need to be prepared for the repercussions from your decisions.
If your company has a legal department, I would consider starting there. What you are doing is a violation of the terms of service of the API and could result in problems for your organization. This can help you get additional eyes on the terms and policies of the API creator to ensure that everyone understands them.
If your manager refuses to understand the possible implications of this, you have a few options, but no one can tell you which one you can or should do:
- If your organization has an Ethics hotline or service, they may be able to accept anonymous questions or concerns and provide guidance on what to do.
- You can go along with it and you would need to live with your decision.
- You can refuse and deal with the outcomes which may result in an inability to move up in your organization or even termination.
- You can resign and refuse to be part of an unethical organization.
- You may be able to reach out to the API creator to clarify the terms of service and, if your company is indeed violating them, self-report it - perhaps there's room for agreement, or the API creator can block your company's access to the API.
The ethical thing, according to the various software engineering codes of ethics that I'm familiar with, is to ensure that the API isn't misused and you comply with the terms of service. However, if you are relying on this job for money or benefits to support yourself and your family and losing it without something lined up would put you into an unsustainable position, I don't believe that anyone would find fault with your actions.
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
|
show 9 more comments
Like anything that touches on ethical considerations, you need to be prepared for the repercussions from your decisions.
If your company has a legal department, I would consider starting there. What you are doing is a violation of the terms of service of the API and could result in problems for your organization. This can help you get additional eyes on the terms and policies of the API creator to ensure that everyone understands them.
If your manager refuses to understand the possible implications of this, you have a few options, but no one can tell you which one you can or should do:
- If your organization has an Ethics hotline or service, they may be able to accept anonymous questions or concerns and provide guidance on what to do.
- You can go along with it and you would need to live with your decision.
- You can refuse and deal with the outcomes which may result in an inability to move up in your organization or even termination.
- You can resign and refuse to be part of an unethical organization.
- You may be able to reach out to the API creator to clarify the terms of service and, if your company is indeed violating them, self-report it - perhaps there's room for agreement, or the API creator can block your company's access to the API.
The ethical thing, according to the various software engineering codes of ethics that I'm familiar with, is to ensure that the API isn't misused and you comply with the terms of service. However, if you are relying on this job for money or benefits to support yourself and your family and losing it without something lined up would put you into an unsustainable position, I don't believe that anyone would find fault with your actions.
Like anything that touches on ethical considerations, you need to be prepared for the repercussions from your decisions.
If your company has a legal department, I would consider starting there. What you are doing is a violation of the terms of service of the API and could result in problems for your organization. This can help you get additional eyes on the terms and policies of the API creator to ensure that everyone understands them.
If your manager refuses to understand the possible implications of this, you have a few options, but no one can tell you which one you can or should do:
- If your organization has an Ethics hotline or service, they may be able to accept anonymous questions or concerns and provide guidance on what to do.
- You can go along with it and you would need to live with your decision.
- You can refuse and deal with the outcomes which may result in an inability to move up in your organization or even termination.
- You can resign and refuse to be part of an unethical organization.
- You may be able to reach out to the API creator to clarify the terms of service and, if your company is indeed violating them, self-report it - perhaps there's room for agreement, or the API creator can block your company's access to the API.
The ethical thing, according to the various software engineering codes of ethics that I'm familiar with, is to ensure that the API isn't misused and you comply with the terms of service. However, if you are relying on this job for money or benefits to support yourself and your family and losing it without something lined up would put you into an unsustainable position, I don't believe that anyone would find fault with your actions.
edited yesterday
answered Aug 12 at 14:07
Thomas OwensThomas Owens
14.7k5 gold badges57 silver badges75 bronze badges
14.7k5 gold badges57 silver badges75 bronze badges
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
|
show 9 more comments
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
7
7
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
I think your answer misses the most important point (see @520's answer): if you decide to comply, everything should be documented and with backups
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud Why would that have an impact on the ethics of the choice? It wouldn't.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
point taken but to be pedantic the question was "what do I do?" and not "what do I choose?"
– Pierre Arlaud
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
@PierreArlaud I believe I answered that. The first thing to do is get an expert (legal) opinion on the license to make sure you are interpreting it correctly. If you are, the correct thing to do is to not comply. However, I highly doubt that someone writing up an ethical case study would paint you in a bad light if you had to comply because of other circumstances and the personal risk was too great compared to the general consequences of compliance. No one is going to die or be injured because of this choice - it's wrong, but the worst outcome is likely exposure for the company.
– Thomas Owens
2 days ago
3
3
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
+1 to starting with the legal department of the company (if any) rather than your own employment lawyer, because it sounds like it's the boss rather than the company as a whole who is making this request. The individual boss is the one who has potentially gone 'rogue' here.
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
|
show 9 more comments
but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Don't be so sure. Companies serving popular data (maps, etc.) where there are acceptable-use policies relating to mass-downloading will often have some kind of detection mechanism in place to enforce those policies. Too many requests from the same IP address, or anything which looks like that, and you're liable to trip out those mechanisms. The result could vary from throttling, to a cutoff for the next 24 hours, to a full block.
You, your boss, and the rest of your team need to assess what happens to your product/site in the event of this third party turning off the tap. If the result would be fatal for your business, then your boss clearly has some figuring-out to do. Perhaps you need to rearchitect your product/site somehow to follow the API without the mass download. Perhaps you need to pay for a license to allow mass downloading (this is usually how these places make their money). Or perhaps your boss puts the company on the line. Whatever the answer is, the technical team need to give him options and he has to make a call.
And if your boss is not the business owner, then your boss needs to escalate the final decision. He can recommend a decision, but if the outcome could be fatal to the business then he should be smart enough to get buy-in from higher up. If he isn't, then you and your team need to escalate it yourselves.
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
add a comment |
but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Don't be so sure. Companies serving popular data (maps, etc.) where there are acceptable-use policies relating to mass-downloading will often have some kind of detection mechanism in place to enforce those policies. Too many requests from the same IP address, or anything which looks like that, and you're liable to trip out those mechanisms. The result could vary from throttling, to a cutoff for the next 24 hours, to a full block.
You, your boss, and the rest of your team need to assess what happens to your product/site in the event of this third party turning off the tap. If the result would be fatal for your business, then your boss clearly has some figuring-out to do. Perhaps you need to rearchitect your product/site somehow to follow the API without the mass download. Perhaps you need to pay for a license to allow mass downloading (this is usually how these places make their money). Or perhaps your boss puts the company on the line. Whatever the answer is, the technical team need to give him options and he has to make a call.
And if your boss is not the business owner, then your boss needs to escalate the final decision. He can recommend a decision, but if the outcome could be fatal to the business then he should be smart enough to get buy-in from higher up. If he isn't, then you and your team need to escalate it yourselves.
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
add a comment |
but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Don't be so sure. Companies serving popular data (maps, etc.) where there are acceptable-use policies relating to mass-downloading will often have some kind of detection mechanism in place to enforce those policies. Too many requests from the same IP address, or anything which looks like that, and you're liable to trip out those mechanisms. The result could vary from throttling, to a cutoff for the next 24 hours, to a full block.
You, your boss, and the rest of your team need to assess what happens to your product/site in the event of this third party turning off the tap. If the result would be fatal for your business, then your boss clearly has some figuring-out to do. Perhaps you need to rearchitect your product/site somehow to follow the API without the mass download. Perhaps you need to pay for a license to allow mass downloading (this is usually how these places make their money). Or perhaps your boss puts the company on the line. Whatever the answer is, the technical team need to give him options and he has to make a call.
And if your boss is not the business owner, then your boss needs to escalate the final decision. He can recommend a decision, but if the outcome could be fatal to the business then he should be smart enough to get buy-in from higher up. If he isn't, then you and your team need to escalate it yourselves.
but it would probably never catch someones eye.
Don't be so sure. Companies serving popular data (maps, etc.) where there are acceptable-use policies relating to mass-downloading will often have some kind of detection mechanism in place to enforce those policies. Too many requests from the same IP address, or anything which looks like that, and you're liable to trip out those mechanisms. The result could vary from throttling, to a cutoff for the next 24 hours, to a full block.
You, your boss, and the rest of your team need to assess what happens to your product/site in the event of this third party turning off the tap. If the result would be fatal for your business, then your boss clearly has some figuring-out to do. Perhaps you need to rearchitect your product/site somehow to follow the API without the mass download. Perhaps you need to pay for a license to allow mass downloading (this is usually how these places make their money). Or perhaps your boss puts the company on the line. Whatever the answer is, the technical team need to give him options and he has to make a call.
And if your boss is not the business owner, then your boss needs to escalate the final decision. He can recommend a decision, but if the outcome could be fatal to the business then he should be smart enough to get buy-in from higher up. If he isn't, then you and your team need to escalate it yourselves.
answered 2 days ago
GrahamGraham
5,0481 gold badge10 silver badges23 bronze badges
5,0481 gold badge10 silver badges23 bronze badges
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
add a comment |
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
4
4
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
This is a great point that makes the whole thing possibly a non-starter. If an organization has gone through the trouble to write up a use policy on their API, I would be highly surprised if they weren't paying attention to the usage, and regulating anyone who violated their policy.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
add a comment |
It comes down to your personal convictions.
From what I understand the misuse of the API does not appear to be a criminal offense (please don't just take my word for it, get legal advice to be sure). However, make sure that the collection and storage of data that your software is performing is legal. In Europe there are strict data privacy laws (GDPR), especially when it come to collecting data on people. The policy of the API may very well be to prevent the illegal collection of data.
People have different personal convictions and some are more ethical than others. As long as the data being collected is legal, you will have a hard time convincing your boss to take the route that you see as ethical. You have to realize that, depending on their culture and personal convictions, your boss might not view the misuse of an API as something unethical.
As I see it you have a few options:
You can obey your boss and use the API against its policy. Be aware that this is not likely to be a one time thing and more requests like this are likely to come in the future. The more of them you say yes to the harder it gets to say no down the line.
You can refuse to use the API against it's policy. This will likely not sit well with your boss, with the extreme case being that you might lose your job.
You can suggest an alternative solution. It probably requires some creativity but you might even find an API where it's not against their policy to implement it in the way your boss is asking of you. This has the potential of not upsetting your boss (too much) while allowing you to stick to your convictions.
In your case I would suggest giving all you have to make option 3 work, only resorting to 1 or 2 if all else fails.
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
add a comment |
It comes down to your personal convictions.
From what I understand the misuse of the API does not appear to be a criminal offense (please don't just take my word for it, get legal advice to be sure). However, make sure that the collection and storage of data that your software is performing is legal. In Europe there are strict data privacy laws (GDPR), especially when it come to collecting data on people. The policy of the API may very well be to prevent the illegal collection of data.
People have different personal convictions and some are more ethical than others. As long as the data being collected is legal, you will have a hard time convincing your boss to take the route that you see as ethical. You have to realize that, depending on their culture and personal convictions, your boss might not view the misuse of an API as something unethical.
As I see it you have a few options:
You can obey your boss and use the API against its policy. Be aware that this is not likely to be a one time thing and more requests like this are likely to come in the future. The more of them you say yes to the harder it gets to say no down the line.
You can refuse to use the API against it's policy. This will likely not sit well with your boss, with the extreme case being that you might lose your job.
You can suggest an alternative solution. It probably requires some creativity but you might even find an API where it's not against their policy to implement it in the way your boss is asking of you. This has the potential of not upsetting your boss (too much) while allowing you to stick to your convictions.
In your case I would suggest giving all you have to make option 3 work, only resorting to 1 or 2 if all else fails.
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
add a comment |
It comes down to your personal convictions.
From what I understand the misuse of the API does not appear to be a criminal offense (please don't just take my word for it, get legal advice to be sure). However, make sure that the collection and storage of data that your software is performing is legal. In Europe there are strict data privacy laws (GDPR), especially when it come to collecting data on people. The policy of the API may very well be to prevent the illegal collection of data.
People have different personal convictions and some are more ethical than others. As long as the data being collected is legal, you will have a hard time convincing your boss to take the route that you see as ethical. You have to realize that, depending on their culture and personal convictions, your boss might not view the misuse of an API as something unethical.
As I see it you have a few options:
You can obey your boss and use the API against its policy. Be aware that this is not likely to be a one time thing and more requests like this are likely to come in the future. The more of them you say yes to the harder it gets to say no down the line.
You can refuse to use the API against it's policy. This will likely not sit well with your boss, with the extreme case being that you might lose your job.
You can suggest an alternative solution. It probably requires some creativity but you might even find an API where it's not against their policy to implement it in the way your boss is asking of you. This has the potential of not upsetting your boss (too much) while allowing you to stick to your convictions.
In your case I would suggest giving all you have to make option 3 work, only resorting to 1 or 2 if all else fails.
It comes down to your personal convictions.
From what I understand the misuse of the API does not appear to be a criminal offense (please don't just take my word for it, get legal advice to be sure). However, make sure that the collection and storage of data that your software is performing is legal. In Europe there are strict data privacy laws (GDPR), especially when it come to collecting data on people. The policy of the API may very well be to prevent the illegal collection of data.
People have different personal convictions and some are more ethical than others. As long as the data being collected is legal, you will have a hard time convincing your boss to take the route that you see as ethical. You have to realize that, depending on their culture and personal convictions, your boss might not view the misuse of an API as something unethical.
As I see it you have a few options:
You can obey your boss and use the API against its policy. Be aware that this is not likely to be a one time thing and more requests like this are likely to come in the future. The more of them you say yes to the harder it gets to say no down the line.
You can refuse to use the API against it's policy. This will likely not sit well with your boss, with the extreme case being that you might lose your job.
You can suggest an alternative solution. It probably requires some creativity but you might even find an API where it's not against their policy to implement it in the way your boss is asking of you. This has the potential of not upsetting your boss (too much) while allowing you to stick to your convictions.
In your case I would suggest giving all you have to make option 3 work, only resorting to 1 or 2 if all else fails.
answered Aug 12 at 15:45
IsakIsak
1,2132 gold badges6 silver badges14 bronze badges
1,2132 gold badges6 silver badges14 bronze badges
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
add a comment |
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
5
5
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
If the policy is formulated as legally binding in any way, I would treat it as such. It's definitely something you could get sued for by the API provider, even if it's not under criminal law.
– Chloride Cull
2 days ago
5
5
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
There is a legal argument that something like this crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act, since it can be viewed as a form of unauthorized access to a computer system. LinkedIn recently tried to suggest this in the LinkedIn v. HiQ case, which I think is ongoing. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Aaron_Swartz
– Ian D. Scott
2 days ago
2
2
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
@ChlorideCull The company gets sued for misuse of the API, not the employee, but if it's a matter of criminal law, the employee will have to answer as well. The big distinction is that the employee is not responsible for the actions of the company and is definitely not in charge of its strategy, in case of a civil matter. But the employee is for sure in charge of not getting themselves in jail.
– Andrei
yesterday
add a comment |
You haven't given enough information in your question to determine whether your boss's request is unethical and/or illegal and/or in breach of their contract/ToS with another party. These are all vastly different matters that you should treat differently.
If the request is illegal, you should not do it on your employer's behalf, even if you don't think it's particularly unethical. When they're caught, they'll make you the scapegoat. You can refuse to take part (and, depending on jurisdiction, probably have protection if they retaliate against you for this), but you might still find yourself working in a hostile environment, or out of a job if the fallout brings down the company.
If the request is unethical - for an example fitting your scenario, think of scraping people's photos from social media or personal info from dating profiles in a jurisdiction where doing so isn't illegal - then in my opinion you shouldn't do it, but you might lack protection in your refusal to do so. You should probably consult a lawyer.
If the request is merely in violation of your employer's contract or terms of service with another party, but not illegal or unethical, then in my opinion there's little reason not to go along with it. You might want to consult a lawyer first and ensure that there could be no cause of action for tortious interference on your part. (Note: IANAL but that's my guess at the most relevant area of law.) But otherwise it's their matter, not yours. For what it's worth, lots of APIs' terms of service are borderline unethical and unenforceable to begin with.
add a comment |
You haven't given enough information in your question to determine whether your boss's request is unethical and/or illegal and/or in breach of their contract/ToS with another party. These are all vastly different matters that you should treat differently.
If the request is illegal, you should not do it on your employer's behalf, even if you don't think it's particularly unethical. When they're caught, they'll make you the scapegoat. You can refuse to take part (and, depending on jurisdiction, probably have protection if they retaliate against you for this), but you might still find yourself working in a hostile environment, or out of a job if the fallout brings down the company.
If the request is unethical - for an example fitting your scenario, think of scraping people's photos from social media or personal info from dating profiles in a jurisdiction where doing so isn't illegal - then in my opinion you shouldn't do it, but you might lack protection in your refusal to do so. You should probably consult a lawyer.
If the request is merely in violation of your employer's contract or terms of service with another party, but not illegal or unethical, then in my opinion there's little reason not to go along with it. You might want to consult a lawyer first and ensure that there could be no cause of action for tortious interference on your part. (Note: IANAL but that's my guess at the most relevant area of law.) But otherwise it's their matter, not yours. For what it's worth, lots of APIs' terms of service are borderline unethical and unenforceable to begin with.
add a comment |
You haven't given enough information in your question to determine whether your boss's request is unethical and/or illegal and/or in breach of their contract/ToS with another party. These are all vastly different matters that you should treat differently.
If the request is illegal, you should not do it on your employer's behalf, even if you don't think it's particularly unethical. When they're caught, they'll make you the scapegoat. You can refuse to take part (and, depending on jurisdiction, probably have protection if they retaliate against you for this), but you might still find yourself working in a hostile environment, or out of a job if the fallout brings down the company.
If the request is unethical - for an example fitting your scenario, think of scraping people's photos from social media or personal info from dating profiles in a jurisdiction where doing so isn't illegal - then in my opinion you shouldn't do it, but you might lack protection in your refusal to do so. You should probably consult a lawyer.
If the request is merely in violation of your employer's contract or terms of service with another party, but not illegal or unethical, then in my opinion there's little reason not to go along with it. You might want to consult a lawyer first and ensure that there could be no cause of action for tortious interference on your part. (Note: IANAL but that's my guess at the most relevant area of law.) But otherwise it's their matter, not yours. For what it's worth, lots of APIs' terms of service are borderline unethical and unenforceable to begin with.
You haven't given enough information in your question to determine whether your boss's request is unethical and/or illegal and/or in breach of their contract/ToS with another party. These are all vastly different matters that you should treat differently.
If the request is illegal, you should not do it on your employer's behalf, even if you don't think it's particularly unethical. When they're caught, they'll make you the scapegoat. You can refuse to take part (and, depending on jurisdiction, probably have protection if they retaliate against you for this), but you might still find yourself working in a hostile environment, or out of a job if the fallout brings down the company.
If the request is unethical - for an example fitting your scenario, think of scraping people's photos from social media or personal info from dating profiles in a jurisdiction where doing so isn't illegal - then in my opinion you shouldn't do it, but you might lack protection in your refusal to do so. You should probably consult a lawyer.
If the request is merely in violation of your employer's contract or terms of service with another party, but not illegal or unethical, then in my opinion there's little reason not to go along with it. You might want to consult a lawyer first and ensure that there could be no cause of action for tortious interference on your part. (Note: IANAL but that's my guess at the most relevant area of law.) But otherwise it's their matter, not yours. For what it's worth, lots of APIs' terms of service are borderline unethical and unenforceable to begin with.
answered Aug 12 at 22:41
R..R..
1,74110 silver badges23 bronze badges
1,74110 silver badges23 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
You've raised this as a concern and have your manager's instructions in writing that you're to code the API as the requirements stand (and against the API's documented guidelines).
They also have fully indicated their understanding that the code might well break when and if the API is updated to close this vulnerability/backdoor.
If so, you may as well carry out the instructions and code.
When and if things go sour, you'll be ready to change that code, so bear this in mind with your intended development path to make the rectification easier in the future.
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
add a comment |
You've raised this as a concern and have your manager's instructions in writing that you're to code the API as the requirements stand (and against the API's documented guidelines).
They also have fully indicated their understanding that the code might well break when and if the API is updated to close this vulnerability/backdoor.
If so, you may as well carry out the instructions and code.
When and if things go sour, you'll be ready to change that code, so bear this in mind with your intended development path to make the rectification easier in the future.
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
add a comment |
You've raised this as a concern and have your manager's instructions in writing that you're to code the API as the requirements stand (and against the API's documented guidelines).
They also have fully indicated their understanding that the code might well break when and if the API is updated to close this vulnerability/backdoor.
If so, you may as well carry out the instructions and code.
When and if things go sour, you'll be ready to change that code, so bear this in mind with your intended development path to make the rectification easier in the future.
You've raised this as a concern and have your manager's instructions in writing that you're to code the API as the requirements stand (and against the API's documented guidelines).
They also have fully indicated their understanding that the code might well break when and if the API is updated to close this vulnerability/backdoor.
If so, you may as well carry out the instructions and code.
When and if things go sour, you'll be ready to change that code, so bear this in mind with your intended development path to make the rectification easier in the future.
answered Aug 12 at 13:49
Snow♦Snow
70k58 gold badges229 silver badges279 bronze badges
70k58 gold badges229 silver badges279 bronze badges
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
add a comment |
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
Exactly. For all you know as a dev, the Boss might have a special agreement with the API provider. It's really none of your business. As you said, make the boss aware of your concern, keep a paper trail, then code away.
– Maxter
yesterday
add a comment |
You should contact an employment lawyer immediately, explain the situation, and ask for some quick advice.
A few things did not seem so clear from the question such as how serious the violation would be, whether or not it should be considered "illegal", whether or not this would really violate GDPR, etc. It does sounds at least like a violation of good ethics in the workplace. This answer is now edited to address the question regardless of how serious the violation would be.
You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer, especially in violating GDPR and copyright. Otherwise you could be liable for any such compromise or violations in the future. And you should probably quit on the spot to avoid being fired "for cause".
This does not apply for directives or procedures that may be not the most efficient or most modern. This is only about law and ethics.
No company should ever make its employees break the law.
When looking for a new job, you can always say that you refused to break the law or compromise on good ethics, and I think there are many, many companies that want this kind of an employee.
New contributor
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
add a comment |
You should contact an employment lawyer immediately, explain the situation, and ask for some quick advice.
A few things did not seem so clear from the question such as how serious the violation would be, whether or not it should be considered "illegal", whether or not this would really violate GDPR, etc. It does sounds at least like a violation of good ethics in the workplace. This answer is now edited to address the question regardless of how serious the violation would be.
You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer, especially in violating GDPR and copyright. Otherwise you could be liable for any such compromise or violations in the future. And you should probably quit on the spot to avoid being fired "for cause".
This does not apply for directives or procedures that may be not the most efficient or most modern. This is only about law and ethics.
No company should ever make its employees break the law.
When looking for a new job, you can always say that you refused to break the law or compromise on good ethics, and I think there are many, many companies that want this kind of an employee.
New contributor
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
add a comment |
You should contact an employment lawyer immediately, explain the situation, and ask for some quick advice.
A few things did not seem so clear from the question such as how serious the violation would be, whether or not it should be considered "illegal", whether or not this would really violate GDPR, etc. It does sounds at least like a violation of good ethics in the workplace. This answer is now edited to address the question regardless of how serious the violation would be.
You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer, especially in violating GDPR and copyright. Otherwise you could be liable for any such compromise or violations in the future. And you should probably quit on the spot to avoid being fired "for cause".
This does not apply for directives or procedures that may be not the most efficient or most modern. This is only about law and ethics.
No company should ever make its employees break the law.
When looking for a new job, you can always say that you refused to break the law or compromise on good ethics, and I think there are many, many companies that want this kind of an employee.
New contributor
You should contact an employment lawyer immediately, explain the situation, and ask for some quick advice.
A few things did not seem so clear from the question such as how serious the violation would be, whether or not it should be considered "illegal", whether or not this would really violate GDPR, etc. It does sounds at least like a violation of good ethics in the workplace. This answer is now edited to address the question regardless of how serious the violation would be.
You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer, especially in violating GDPR and copyright. Otherwise you could be liable for any such compromise or violations in the future. And you should probably quit on the spot to avoid being fired "for cause".
This does not apply for directives or procedures that may be not the most efficient or most modern. This is only about law and ethics.
No company should ever make its employees break the law.
When looking for a new job, you can always say that you refused to break the law or compromise on good ethics, and I think there are many, many companies that want this kind of an employee.
New contributor
edited 2 days ago
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
brodybitsbrodybits
1193 bronze badges
1193 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
add a comment |
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
Your points are valid, but it's not clear from the OP what the data is or what they are doing with it. Just over-using a public API is probably not by itself illegal.
– Christopher Hunter
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
I just reworked my answer to address the question in a more general manner.
– brodybits
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Breaching a contract is not breaking the law. Contacting a lawyer is overkill. Generally speaking, because the contract is between the employer and the other company, the employee is not liable for breach of contract. Worst thing that can happen in the employee is sued by their employer for gross negligence which, given the employee has highlighted the legal issues to their employer would probably not hold up in court.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
Also, discussing GDPR and copyright is a red-herring. Firstly, GDPR is underpinned by law in many countries, which makes it different from breach of contract. Secondly, when it comes to copyright, the company itself will almost certainly be vicariously liable if it has instructed an employee to breach copyright.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
1
1
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
"You should always refuse to compromise on your ethics for an employer" In addition, this statement comes from a privileged position. No everyone can get a job easily. And the ethical question becomes way more complicated when you have to provide for a family, and your choices have consequences beyond yourself.
– Gregory Currie
2 days ago
add a comment |
Consider contacting the API licence owner
Whilst it's an extremely good idea to cover yourself legally and get it in writing, an alternative solution, which I note hasn't been suggested, is perhaps to take a proactive approach with regards to the situation which avoids a rock and hard place situation.
That is to say, you might want to consider approaching the API licence owner, and asking them directly for permission to conduct a single mass download. The API licence owner's response may range from giving you permission for free simply for asking politely, to specifying a licence fee (which, depending on price, you may opt to cover yourself to avoid hassle, file it as an expense or refer it to your manager), to an outright explicit refusal.
The chance the dataset owner may offer the one-off mass download for free (which may be the case in some open source or smaller, private communities), or offering a reasonable price makes contacting the API licence owner a reasonable course of action.
Worst case scenario is they say no, which simply leaves you in the same situation you're in now. Talking with them however may open other options.
add a comment |
Consider contacting the API licence owner
Whilst it's an extremely good idea to cover yourself legally and get it in writing, an alternative solution, which I note hasn't been suggested, is perhaps to take a proactive approach with regards to the situation which avoids a rock and hard place situation.
That is to say, you might want to consider approaching the API licence owner, and asking them directly for permission to conduct a single mass download. The API licence owner's response may range from giving you permission for free simply for asking politely, to specifying a licence fee (which, depending on price, you may opt to cover yourself to avoid hassle, file it as an expense or refer it to your manager), to an outright explicit refusal.
The chance the dataset owner may offer the one-off mass download for free (which may be the case in some open source or smaller, private communities), or offering a reasonable price makes contacting the API licence owner a reasonable course of action.
Worst case scenario is they say no, which simply leaves you in the same situation you're in now. Talking with them however may open other options.
add a comment |
Consider contacting the API licence owner
Whilst it's an extremely good idea to cover yourself legally and get it in writing, an alternative solution, which I note hasn't been suggested, is perhaps to take a proactive approach with regards to the situation which avoids a rock and hard place situation.
That is to say, you might want to consider approaching the API licence owner, and asking them directly for permission to conduct a single mass download. The API licence owner's response may range from giving you permission for free simply for asking politely, to specifying a licence fee (which, depending on price, you may opt to cover yourself to avoid hassle, file it as an expense or refer it to your manager), to an outright explicit refusal.
The chance the dataset owner may offer the one-off mass download for free (which may be the case in some open source or smaller, private communities), or offering a reasonable price makes contacting the API licence owner a reasonable course of action.
Worst case scenario is they say no, which simply leaves you in the same situation you're in now. Talking with them however may open other options.
Consider contacting the API licence owner
Whilst it's an extremely good idea to cover yourself legally and get it in writing, an alternative solution, which I note hasn't been suggested, is perhaps to take a proactive approach with regards to the situation which avoids a rock and hard place situation.
That is to say, you might want to consider approaching the API licence owner, and asking them directly for permission to conduct a single mass download. The API licence owner's response may range from giving you permission for free simply for asking politely, to specifying a licence fee (which, depending on price, you may opt to cover yourself to avoid hassle, file it as an expense or refer it to your manager), to an outright explicit refusal.
The chance the dataset owner may offer the one-off mass download for free (which may be the case in some open source or smaller, private communities), or offering a reasonable price makes contacting the API licence owner a reasonable course of action.
Worst case scenario is they say no, which simply leaves you in the same situation you're in now. Talking with them however may open other options.
answered 16 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
8312 silver badges10 bronze badges
8312 silver badges10 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
You don't know your company doesn't have or couldn't get an agreement to mass scrape.
So distance yourself as much as possible by getting the instruction in writing, keeping it offsite, and make darn sure that none of the API accounts that scrape have your name on them anywhere.
Now, there are two ways to go in a scrape. One is to crawl softly, with sleep()
's in the loop to minimize server-side impact. The other is to go whole-hog for max throughput, even spawning multiple threads so you don't have to wait for a response before sending another query. Both are valid concepts, but in this case I recommend you implement the second one masterfully, as if it was the only/obvious way to do things. Like it never occurred to you that the other company's server load might be an issue.
In other words, since you are obliged to implement it, I recommend don't even hide.
At that point, it's on the other company to notice the jump in server activity and investigate. This is surely not their first rodeo, even if it is your company's.
The result of them noticing is a big bag of "not your problem". You certainly hope and expect that they will go "oh, this is client ID J12345, they have a site license to scrape this data". Regardless, not your problem.
add a comment |
You don't know your company doesn't have or couldn't get an agreement to mass scrape.
So distance yourself as much as possible by getting the instruction in writing, keeping it offsite, and make darn sure that none of the API accounts that scrape have your name on them anywhere.
Now, there are two ways to go in a scrape. One is to crawl softly, with sleep()
's in the loop to minimize server-side impact. The other is to go whole-hog for max throughput, even spawning multiple threads so you don't have to wait for a response before sending another query. Both are valid concepts, but in this case I recommend you implement the second one masterfully, as if it was the only/obvious way to do things. Like it never occurred to you that the other company's server load might be an issue.
In other words, since you are obliged to implement it, I recommend don't even hide.
At that point, it's on the other company to notice the jump in server activity and investigate. This is surely not their first rodeo, even if it is your company's.
The result of them noticing is a big bag of "not your problem". You certainly hope and expect that they will go "oh, this is client ID J12345, they have a site license to scrape this data". Regardless, not your problem.
add a comment |
You don't know your company doesn't have or couldn't get an agreement to mass scrape.
So distance yourself as much as possible by getting the instruction in writing, keeping it offsite, and make darn sure that none of the API accounts that scrape have your name on them anywhere.
Now, there are two ways to go in a scrape. One is to crawl softly, with sleep()
's in the loop to minimize server-side impact. The other is to go whole-hog for max throughput, even spawning multiple threads so you don't have to wait for a response before sending another query. Both are valid concepts, but in this case I recommend you implement the second one masterfully, as if it was the only/obvious way to do things. Like it never occurred to you that the other company's server load might be an issue.
In other words, since you are obliged to implement it, I recommend don't even hide.
At that point, it's on the other company to notice the jump in server activity and investigate. This is surely not their first rodeo, even if it is your company's.
The result of them noticing is a big bag of "not your problem". You certainly hope and expect that they will go "oh, this is client ID J12345, they have a site license to scrape this data". Regardless, not your problem.
You don't know your company doesn't have or couldn't get an agreement to mass scrape.
So distance yourself as much as possible by getting the instruction in writing, keeping it offsite, and make darn sure that none of the API accounts that scrape have your name on them anywhere.
Now, there are two ways to go in a scrape. One is to crawl softly, with sleep()
's in the loop to minimize server-side impact. The other is to go whole-hog for max throughput, even spawning multiple threads so you don't have to wait for a response before sending another query. Both are valid concepts, but in this case I recommend you implement the second one masterfully, as if it was the only/obvious way to do things. Like it never occurred to you that the other company's server load might be an issue.
In other words, since you are obliged to implement it, I recommend don't even hide.
At that point, it's on the other company to notice the jump in server activity and investigate. This is surely not their first rodeo, even if it is your company's.
The result of them noticing is a big bag of "not your problem". You certainly hope and expect that they will go "oh, this is client ID J12345, they have a site license to scrape this data". Regardless, not your problem.
answered 2 days ago
HarperHarper
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6,6981 gold badge11 silver badges30 bronze badges
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You may be over-thinking here (again, depending on the specifics). Many API providers will simply start refusing the request if they notice you going over a free tier or some level that they are willing to give away. At that point you'll need an API license. Basically, don't get too hung up over the ethics here, because its very likely the API provider is very aware of what its 'giving away' and what its requiring people to pay for.
add a comment |
You may be over-thinking here (again, depending on the specifics). Many API providers will simply start refusing the request if they notice you going over a free tier or some level that they are willing to give away. At that point you'll need an API license. Basically, don't get too hung up over the ethics here, because its very likely the API provider is very aware of what its 'giving away' and what its requiring people to pay for.
add a comment |
You may be over-thinking here (again, depending on the specifics). Many API providers will simply start refusing the request if they notice you going over a free tier or some level that they are willing to give away. At that point you'll need an API license. Basically, don't get too hung up over the ethics here, because its very likely the API provider is very aware of what its 'giving away' and what its requiring people to pay for.
You may be over-thinking here (again, depending on the specifics). Many API providers will simply start refusing the request if they notice you going over a free tier or some level that they are willing to give away. At that point you'll need an API license. Basically, don't get too hung up over the ethics here, because its very likely the API provider is very aware of what its 'giving away' and what its requiring people to pay for.
answered yesterday
GrandmasterBGrandmasterB
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I can think of three possible responses:
- Challenge: Say, "I need a written and signed order to do this on physical paper before I will do it." Now his claim that it's okay for YOU to do the job runs into his own sense of self-preservation.
- Passive: Say, "It's going to take me X months to do that" where X is several times longer than you can really do it. This will be a strong hint to him that he's better off finding someone else to do it.
- Direct: Say, "Sorry, but I can't do that. It goes against my beliefs to ignore the terms of use."
Now any of these options may result in your boss taking action against you. Even if he seems to fully accept your response on day 1, days/weeks later he could start a campaign to harass you.
Let's say that you don't help the boss do this project but he gets it done anyhow. You're still working at a company that is blatantly going against your ethical standards. How will you feel about that? If you won't feel good then it's may be time to look for another job because most likely the boss is going to get the project done regardless of your involvement.
Something else for you to consider: Lawyers write the terms but the business and technical people at the other company may be 100% okay with your company doing what your boss wants. If your company is caching data that the API company doesn't sell per request then it's harmless. Although in my experience, someone in tech at your company should discuss with someone technical at the other company before assuming that you'll be able to do business this way since the API can be switched off (deny you access) at any time for any reason typically. And that's probably bad for your business.
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
add a comment |
I can think of three possible responses:
- Challenge: Say, "I need a written and signed order to do this on physical paper before I will do it." Now his claim that it's okay for YOU to do the job runs into his own sense of self-preservation.
- Passive: Say, "It's going to take me X months to do that" where X is several times longer than you can really do it. This will be a strong hint to him that he's better off finding someone else to do it.
- Direct: Say, "Sorry, but I can't do that. It goes against my beliefs to ignore the terms of use."
Now any of these options may result in your boss taking action against you. Even if he seems to fully accept your response on day 1, days/weeks later he could start a campaign to harass you.
Let's say that you don't help the boss do this project but he gets it done anyhow. You're still working at a company that is blatantly going against your ethical standards. How will you feel about that? If you won't feel good then it's may be time to look for another job because most likely the boss is going to get the project done regardless of your involvement.
Something else for you to consider: Lawyers write the terms but the business and technical people at the other company may be 100% okay with your company doing what your boss wants. If your company is caching data that the API company doesn't sell per request then it's harmless. Although in my experience, someone in tech at your company should discuss with someone technical at the other company before assuming that you'll be able to do business this way since the API can be switched off (deny you access) at any time for any reason typically. And that's probably bad for your business.
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
add a comment |
I can think of three possible responses:
- Challenge: Say, "I need a written and signed order to do this on physical paper before I will do it." Now his claim that it's okay for YOU to do the job runs into his own sense of self-preservation.
- Passive: Say, "It's going to take me X months to do that" where X is several times longer than you can really do it. This will be a strong hint to him that he's better off finding someone else to do it.
- Direct: Say, "Sorry, but I can't do that. It goes against my beliefs to ignore the terms of use."
Now any of these options may result in your boss taking action against you. Even if he seems to fully accept your response on day 1, days/weeks later he could start a campaign to harass you.
Let's say that you don't help the boss do this project but he gets it done anyhow. You're still working at a company that is blatantly going against your ethical standards. How will you feel about that? If you won't feel good then it's may be time to look for another job because most likely the boss is going to get the project done regardless of your involvement.
Something else for you to consider: Lawyers write the terms but the business and technical people at the other company may be 100% okay with your company doing what your boss wants. If your company is caching data that the API company doesn't sell per request then it's harmless. Although in my experience, someone in tech at your company should discuss with someone technical at the other company before assuming that you'll be able to do business this way since the API can be switched off (deny you access) at any time for any reason typically. And that's probably bad for your business.
I can think of three possible responses:
- Challenge: Say, "I need a written and signed order to do this on physical paper before I will do it." Now his claim that it's okay for YOU to do the job runs into his own sense of self-preservation.
- Passive: Say, "It's going to take me X months to do that" where X is several times longer than you can really do it. This will be a strong hint to him that he's better off finding someone else to do it.
- Direct: Say, "Sorry, but I can't do that. It goes against my beliefs to ignore the terms of use."
Now any of these options may result in your boss taking action against you. Even if he seems to fully accept your response on day 1, days/weeks later he could start a campaign to harass you.
Let's say that you don't help the boss do this project but he gets it done anyhow. You're still working at a company that is blatantly going against your ethical standards. How will you feel about that? If you won't feel good then it's may be time to look for another job because most likely the boss is going to get the project done regardless of your involvement.
Something else for you to consider: Lawyers write the terms but the business and technical people at the other company may be 100% okay with your company doing what your boss wants. If your company is caching data that the API company doesn't sell per request then it's harmless. Although in my experience, someone in tech at your company should discuss with someone technical at the other company before assuming that you'll be able to do business this way since the API can be switched off (deny you access) at any time for any reason typically. And that's probably bad for your business.
edited Aug 12 at 18:28
answered Aug 12 at 17:34
HenryMHenryM
1,3553 silver badges10 bronze badges
1,3553 silver badges10 bronze badges
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
1
1
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
"with someone technical at the other company" It's still a legal and business decision if they allow it even if it is technical possible.
– FooBar
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
@FooBar yes, but Management agrees between th companies and authorizes communication at high levels before lower level employees communicate. The fact lines of communication are open is a good indicator then.
– HenryM
2 days ago
add a comment |
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– Snow♦
Aug 13 at 5:17
11
Are you using it for "mass download" (per the edit) or as I suspect - 'caching' the results of the API call locally, so that next time you would otherwise call that API for the same query, you retrieve it from your database instead of paying to call the API again?
– seventyeightist
2 days ago
9
@seventyeightist is right. It's one thing to use a GIS service to get a polygon for your zip code, and then save that data for the next 25 times you need it. It's quite another to iterate from 0 to 99999 and get all the polygons. A little context is useful, here.
– Wesley Long
2 days ago
4
The title was falsely changed to include "mass download" - that's not what it is. @seventyeightist you are correct.
– RolfZ
yesterday
@RolfZ Are you consuming Hotel/Airline data? Because my ex boss told me to implement exact same thing.
– Knu8
yesterday