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When was “Fredo” an insult to Italian-Americans?
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Recently in the news there's been some kerfuffle about a verbal exchange between CNN anchorman, Chris Cuomo, and a person who called him “Fredo”. In the cell-phone video, the man claims
I thought that was who you were
Cuomo responds that his name is Chris and he works for CNN. He then explains why he is offended by the term “Fredo" and why it is insulting for Italian-Americans.
Only punk-ass bitches from the right call me Fredo.
Fredo is from The Godfather. He was a weak brother. And they're using it as an Italian aspersion. […]
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
During the argument, Cuomo's anger escalates and in the ensuing expletive-ridden tirade, he threatens to use physical violence. The man repeatedly but calmly (probably seeking to bait Cuomo) interjects
I thought that was your name
Many reports clarify that "Fredo" does not carry the same cultural baggage or level of hostility as the n-word. Italians were neither enslaved nor victims of a systematic genocide in the US or in Europe. I am unaware if this term is considered a slur in the UK, I suspect it isn't, it seems to be exclusively American English. Hannah Gold for The Cut writes
…the term “Fredo” has become a cultural short-hand for “incompetent, cowardly, large adult son.”
In fact, online it has been suggested that Chris Cuomo may have an inferiority complex. His elder brother, Andrew Cuomo, has been governor of New York since 2011. And their father, Mario Cuomo, served eleven years as governor of New York.
Unfortunately, the President of the USA decided to stoke things further by tweeting the following
I thought Chris was Fredo also. The Truth hurts.
Totally lost it! Low ratings at CNN
In another Tweet, he added
Would Chris Cuomo be given a Red Flag for his recent rant? Filthy language and a total loss of control. He shouldn't be allowed to have any weapon. He's nuts!
- What did the POTUS mean by saying he thought Chris was Fredo also?
Did he think the CNN news anchor was called Fredo? Was he insinuating that Cuomo was weak and less intelligent than his elder brother? Was the President indirectly insulting Italian Americans? Was he insinuating that the family Cuomo had Mafia connections?
- When did calling someone “Fredo” become an insult? Is it considered racist in the US?
etymology american-english pejorative-language trumpism
|
show 22 more comments
Recently in the news there's been some kerfuffle about a verbal exchange between CNN anchorman, Chris Cuomo, and a person who called him “Fredo”. In the cell-phone video, the man claims
I thought that was who you were
Cuomo responds that his name is Chris and he works for CNN. He then explains why he is offended by the term “Fredo" and why it is insulting for Italian-Americans.
Only punk-ass bitches from the right call me Fredo.
Fredo is from The Godfather. He was a weak brother. And they're using it as an Italian aspersion. […]
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
During the argument, Cuomo's anger escalates and in the ensuing expletive-ridden tirade, he threatens to use physical violence. The man repeatedly but calmly (probably seeking to bait Cuomo) interjects
I thought that was your name
Many reports clarify that "Fredo" does not carry the same cultural baggage or level of hostility as the n-word. Italians were neither enslaved nor victims of a systematic genocide in the US or in Europe. I am unaware if this term is considered a slur in the UK, I suspect it isn't, it seems to be exclusively American English. Hannah Gold for The Cut writes
…the term “Fredo” has become a cultural short-hand for “incompetent, cowardly, large adult son.”
In fact, online it has been suggested that Chris Cuomo may have an inferiority complex. His elder brother, Andrew Cuomo, has been governor of New York since 2011. And their father, Mario Cuomo, served eleven years as governor of New York.
Unfortunately, the President of the USA decided to stoke things further by tweeting the following
I thought Chris was Fredo also. The Truth hurts.
Totally lost it! Low ratings at CNN
In another Tweet, he added
Would Chris Cuomo be given a Red Flag for his recent rant? Filthy language and a total loss of control. He shouldn't be allowed to have any weapon. He's nuts!
- What did the POTUS mean by saying he thought Chris was Fredo also?
Did he think the CNN news anchor was called Fredo? Was he insinuating that Cuomo was weak and less intelligent than his elder brother? Was the President indirectly insulting Italian Americans? Was he insinuating that the family Cuomo had Mafia connections?
- When did calling someone “Fredo” become an insult? Is it considered racist in the US?
etymology american-english pejorative-language trumpism
7
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
12
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
5
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
5
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
5
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday
|
show 22 more comments
Recently in the news there's been some kerfuffle about a verbal exchange between CNN anchorman, Chris Cuomo, and a person who called him “Fredo”. In the cell-phone video, the man claims
I thought that was who you were
Cuomo responds that his name is Chris and he works for CNN. He then explains why he is offended by the term “Fredo" and why it is insulting for Italian-Americans.
Only punk-ass bitches from the right call me Fredo.
Fredo is from The Godfather. He was a weak brother. And they're using it as an Italian aspersion. […]
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
During the argument, Cuomo's anger escalates and in the ensuing expletive-ridden tirade, he threatens to use physical violence. The man repeatedly but calmly (probably seeking to bait Cuomo) interjects
I thought that was your name
Many reports clarify that "Fredo" does not carry the same cultural baggage or level of hostility as the n-word. Italians were neither enslaved nor victims of a systematic genocide in the US or in Europe. I am unaware if this term is considered a slur in the UK, I suspect it isn't, it seems to be exclusively American English. Hannah Gold for The Cut writes
…the term “Fredo” has become a cultural short-hand for “incompetent, cowardly, large adult son.”
In fact, online it has been suggested that Chris Cuomo may have an inferiority complex. His elder brother, Andrew Cuomo, has been governor of New York since 2011. And their father, Mario Cuomo, served eleven years as governor of New York.
Unfortunately, the President of the USA decided to stoke things further by tweeting the following
I thought Chris was Fredo also. The Truth hurts.
Totally lost it! Low ratings at CNN
In another Tweet, he added
Would Chris Cuomo be given a Red Flag for his recent rant? Filthy language and a total loss of control. He shouldn't be allowed to have any weapon. He's nuts!
- What did the POTUS mean by saying he thought Chris was Fredo also?
Did he think the CNN news anchor was called Fredo? Was he insinuating that Cuomo was weak and less intelligent than his elder brother? Was the President indirectly insulting Italian Americans? Was he insinuating that the family Cuomo had Mafia connections?
- When did calling someone “Fredo” become an insult? Is it considered racist in the US?
etymology american-english pejorative-language trumpism
Recently in the news there's been some kerfuffle about a verbal exchange between CNN anchorman, Chris Cuomo, and a person who called him “Fredo”. In the cell-phone video, the man claims
I thought that was who you were
Cuomo responds that his name is Chris and he works for CNN. He then explains why he is offended by the term “Fredo" and why it is insulting for Italian-Americans.
Only punk-ass bitches from the right call me Fredo.
Fredo is from The Godfather. He was a weak brother. And they're using it as an Italian aspersion. […]
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
During the argument, Cuomo's anger escalates and in the ensuing expletive-ridden tirade, he threatens to use physical violence. The man repeatedly but calmly (probably seeking to bait Cuomo) interjects
I thought that was your name
Many reports clarify that "Fredo" does not carry the same cultural baggage or level of hostility as the n-word. Italians were neither enslaved nor victims of a systematic genocide in the US or in Europe. I am unaware if this term is considered a slur in the UK, I suspect it isn't, it seems to be exclusively American English. Hannah Gold for The Cut writes
…the term “Fredo” has become a cultural short-hand for “incompetent, cowardly, large adult son.”
In fact, online it has been suggested that Chris Cuomo may have an inferiority complex. His elder brother, Andrew Cuomo, has been governor of New York since 2011. And their father, Mario Cuomo, served eleven years as governor of New York.
Unfortunately, the President of the USA decided to stoke things further by tweeting the following
I thought Chris was Fredo also. The Truth hurts.
Totally lost it! Low ratings at CNN
In another Tweet, he added
Would Chris Cuomo be given a Red Flag for his recent rant? Filthy language and a total loss of control. He shouldn't be allowed to have any weapon. He's nuts!
- What did the POTUS mean by saying he thought Chris was Fredo also?
Did he think the CNN news anchor was called Fredo? Was he insinuating that Cuomo was weak and less intelligent than his elder brother? Was the President indirectly insulting Italian Americans? Was he insinuating that the family Cuomo had Mafia connections?
- When did calling someone “Fredo” become an insult? Is it considered racist in the US?
etymology american-english pejorative-language trumpism
etymology american-english pejorative-language trumpism
edited 2 days ago
Mari-Lou A
asked 2 days ago
Mari-Lou AMari-Lou A
64k58 gold badges240 silver badges489 bronze badges
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7
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
12
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
5
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
5
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
5
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday
|
show 22 more comments
7
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
12
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
5
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
5
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
5
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday
7
7
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
12
12
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
5
5
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
5
5
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
5
5
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday
|
show 22 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
In my estimation, it all amounts to nothing more than an emotionally-driven burst of anger and frustration. Nothing worth parsing word-for-word.
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
That's a gross exaggeration. The n-word is used to dehumanize, ridicule and oppress black people. "Fredo" just means the dumb brother.
Cuomo is also being a bit hypocritical having previously, in jest, applied the term to himself.
Chris Cuomo once referred to himself as ‘Fredo’ in radio interview:
HOST: “There is a group of people — politicos — who always hint they might
run, but not necessarily plunge all the way, and they are members of
la Cuomo.”
CUOMO: “Who am I, then, Fredo?” Cuomo asked in response.
HOST: “Yes, exactly,” Sliwa said. “So you better be careful that your
brother Andrew doesn’t kiss you on both cheeks and then all of a
sudden they take you out on the middle of the lake and where’s Chris?”
CUOMO: “He kisses me plenty because he’s a great big brother,” Cuomo said.
Who knows what motivated his outburst, but one thing's for sure: "Fredo" can be insulting (having the impact of the words "fool" or "weak"), but it's not nearly as bad as it gets (like using the n-word).
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
|
show 8 more comments
I don't think it's "Fredo" specifically that's the insult. Calling someone by a name that's stereotypically associated with their ethnicity is likely to be viewed as racism. So he would have a similar problem if he called him "Luigi" ("Mario" might work for others, but not him, because that's his father's and son's actual names), called an Arab "Muhammed", or called a Mexican "Juan". This type of name-calling conflates all members of the ethnicity, which is practically the definition of racism, although I don't think it's considered as bad as using terms related to stereotyped activities (e.g. "spear-chucker" for black men).
However, Fredo may be insulting in multiple ways. Not only is it a stereotypical name, but it's also a weak character in a movie that emphasizes another stereotype, that Italian-Americans are gangsters.
However, I don't think it's an established, idiomatic insult like the N-word. I think Cuomo was exaggerating when he said that this was like the N-word to Italian-Americans. From Vox.com:
But Cuomo is being disingenuous at best when he says that Fredo is an insult that’s equivalent to the n-word. (In a statement of support for Cuomo, CNN also characterized the name as an “ethnic slur.”) The latter term has a lengthy and well-trod history as a racist insult, an unambiguous pejorative against black people when used by non-black people. The former is a reference to a pop cultural character from books published in the 1960s and movie adaptations produced the following decade. One is a degrading slur meant to dehumanize the target; the other is a metaphor with unflattering connotations: that the target bears a similarity to a character infamous for his lack of integrity.
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
add a comment |
Trump was re-tweeting a late-night comic who is allowed to be funny.
In The Godfather (1972) John Cazale plays the brother Fredo. He eventually takes issue with the way he is treated as the less intelligent gopher, worker bee, by everyone in the organization. The name has taken on this role in popular culture.
The man using "Fredo" as the name professed that he really thought that was Mr. Cuomo's name. I imagine this is what infuriated Mr. Cuomo even more.
There are currently several montages of people in public forums using this term all over the news from some years ago up until recently. It has become the latest offense for which to take umbrage, first or second hand, when there is nothing else worth reporting.
New contributor
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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In my estimation, it all amounts to nothing more than an emotionally-driven burst of anger and frustration. Nothing worth parsing word-for-word.
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
That's a gross exaggeration. The n-word is used to dehumanize, ridicule and oppress black people. "Fredo" just means the dumb brother.
Cuomo is also being a bit hypocritical having previously, in jest, applied the term to himself.
Chris Cuomo once referred to himself as ‘Fredo’ in radio interview:
HOST: “There is a group of people — politicos — who always hint they might
run, but not necessarily plunge all the way, and they are members of
la Cuomo.”
CUOMO: “Who am I, then, Fredo?” Cuomo asked in response.
HOST: “Yes, exactly,” Sliwa said. “So you better be careful that your
brother Andrew doesn’t kiss you on both cheeks and then all of a
sudden they take you out on the middle of the lake and where’s Chris?”
CUOMO: “He kisses me plenty because he’s a great big brother,” Cuomo said.
Who knows what motivated his outburst, but one thing's for sure: "Fredo" can be insulting (having the impact of the words "fool" or "weak"), but it's not nearly as bad as it gets (like using the n-word).
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
|
show 8 more comments
In my estimation, it all amounts to nothing more than an emotionally-driven burst of anger and frustration. Nothing worth parsing word-for-word.
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
That's a gross exaggeration. The n-word is used to dehumanize, ridicule and oppress black people. "Fredo" just means the dumb brother.
Cuomo is also being a bit hypocritical having previously, in jest, applied the term to himself.
Chris Cuomo once referred to himself as ‘Fredo’ in radio interview:
HOST: “There is a group of people — politicos — who always hint they might
run, but not necessarily plunge all the way, and they are members of
la Cuomo.”
CUOMO: “Who am I, then, Fredo?” Cuomo asked in response.
HOST: “Yes, exactly,” Sliwa said. “So you better be careful that your
brother Andrew doesn’t kiss you on both cheeks and then all of a
sudden they take you out on the middle of the lake and where’s Chris?”
CUOMO: “He kisses me plenty because he’s a great big brother,” Cuomo said.
Who knows what motivated his outburst, but one thing's for sure: "Fredo" can be insulting (having the impact of the words "fool" or "weak"), but it's not nearly as bad as it gets (like using the n-word).
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
|
show 8 more comments
In my estimation, it all amounts to nothing more than an emotionally-driven burst of anger and frustration. Nothing worth parsing word-for-word.
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
That's a gross exaggeration. The n-word is used to dehumanize, ridicule and oppress black people. "Fredo" just means the dumb brother.
Cuomo is also being a bit hypocritical having previously, in jest, applied the term to himself.
Chris Cuomo once referred to himself as ‘Fredo’ in radio interview:
HOST: “There is a group of people — politicos — who always hint they might
run, but not necessarily plunge all the way, and they are members of
la Cuomo.”
CUOMO: “Who am I, then, Fredo?” Cuomo asked in response.
HOST: “Yes, exactly,” Sliwa said. “So you better be careful that your
brother Andrew doesn’t kiss you on both cheeks and then all of a
sudden they take you out on the middle of the lake and where’s Chris?”
CUOMO: “He kisses me plenty because he’s a great big brother,” Cuomo said.
Who knows what motivated his outburst, but one thing's for sure: "Fredo" can be insulting (having the impact of the words "fool" or "weak"), but it's not nearly as bad as it gets (like using the n-word).
In my estimation, it all amounts to nothing more than an emotionally-driven burst of anger and frustration. Nothing worth parsing word-for-word.
[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us.
That's a gross exaggeration. The n-word is used to dehumanize, ridicule and oppress black people. "Fredo" just means the dumb brother.
Cuomo is also being a bit hypocritical having previously, in jest, applied the term to himself.
Chris Cuomo once referred to himself as ‘Fredo’ in radio interview:
HOST: “There is a group of people — politicos — who always hint they might
run, but not necessarily plunge all the way, and they are members of
la Cuomo.”
CUOMO: “Who am I, then, Fredo?” Cuomo asked in response.
HOST: “Yes, exactly,” Sliwa said. “So you better be careful that your
brother Andrew doesn’t kiss you on both cheeks and then all of a
sudden they take you out on the middle of the lake and where’s Chris?”
CUOMO: “He kisses me plenty because he’s a great big brother,” Cuomo said.
Who knows what motivated his outburst, but one thing's for sure: "Fredo" can be insulting (having the impact of the words "fool" or "weak"), but it's not nearly as bad as it gets (like using the n-word).
edited 20 hours ago
answered 2 days ago
Michael_BMichael_B
3,8351 gold badge12 silver badges22 bronze badges
3,8351 gold badge12 silver badges22 bronze badges
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
|
show 8 more comments
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
2
2
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
Could you say when, as far as you can tell, "Fredo" became a slur? Have you ever heard it used against Italian Americans outside the television arena? Is it limited to New York? Thank you, anyway, for your account.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
4
4
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
+1 for the radio link. It seems that "Fredo" was uttered in good humor.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
5
5
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
They approached him while he was with him family, called him Fredo, and the claim is that they did so because that's what Rush Limbaugh calls him on his radio show. Presumably we're to believe they didn't know the guy, but recognized his face by listening to a radio show. Also the filmers' video appeared on a right wing Youtube channel first. To me it's pretty clear it was an intentional provocation, and must have been even more obvious to Chris, who gets this stuff all the time, or so he claims.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
10
10
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
Also I don't agree it's hypocrisy, because an insulting term can either be insulting and malicious, or be a term of affection or solidarity or one showing friendship. There are two completely different ways the 'N' word can be used: From a black person to a close black person, or for example from a white supremacist or KKK member. Context is everything, and I don't see hypocrisy in his behavior for taking the term one way in one context, and getting offended in another context.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
8
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
"[“Fredo“] is like the n-word for us." - to quote John Mulaney, "If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them…that’s the worse word."
– BruceWayne
yesterday
|
show 8 more comments
I don't think it's "Fredo" specifically that's the insult. Calling someone by a name that's stereotypically associated with their ethnicity is likely to be viewed as racism. So he would have a similar problem if he called him "Luigi" ("Mario" might work for others, but not him, because that's his father's and son's actual names), called an Arab "Muhammed", or called a Mexican "Juan". This type of name-calling conflates all members of the ethnicity, which is practically the definition of racism, although I don't think it's considered as bad as using terms related to stereotyped activities (e.g. "spear-chucker" for black men).
However, Fredo may be insulting in multiple ways. Not only is it a stereotypical name, but it's also a weak character in a movie that emphasizes another stereotype, that Italian-Americans are gangsters.
However, I don't think it's an established, idiomatic insult like the N-word. I think Cuomo was exaggerating when he said that this was like the N-word to Italian-Americans. From Vox.com:
But Cuomo is being disingenuous at best when he says that Fredo is an insult that’s equivalent to the n-word. (In a statement of support for Cuomo, CNN also characterized the name as an “ethnic slur.”) The latter term has a lengthy and well-trod history as a racist insult, an unambiguous pejorative against black people when used by non-black people. The former is a reference to a pop cultural character from books published in the 1960s and movie adaptations produced the following decade. One is a degrading slur meant to dehumanize the target; the other is a metaphor with unflattering connotations: that the target bears a similarity to a character infamous for his lack of integrity.
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
add a comment |
I don't think it's "Fredo" specifically that's the insult. Calling someone by a name that's stereotypically associated with their ethnicity is likely to be viewed as racism. So he would have a similar problem if he called him "Luigi" ("Mario" might work for others, but not him, because that's his father's and son's actual names), called an Arab "Muhammed", or called a Mexican "Juan". This type of name-calling conflates all members of the ethnicity, which is practically the definition of racism, although I don't think it's considered as bad as using terms related to stereotyped activities (e.g. "spear-chucker" for black men).
However, Fredo may be insulting in multiple ways. Not only is it a stereotypical name, but it's also a weak character in a movie that emphasizes another stereotype, that Italian-Americans are gangsters.
However, I don't think it's an established, idiomatic insult like the N-word. I think Cuomo was exaggerating when he said that this was like the N-word to Italian-Americans. From Vox.com:
But Cuomo is being disingenuous at best when he says that Fredo is an insult that’s equivalent to the n-word. (In a statement of support for Cuomo, CNN also characterized the name as an “ethnic slur.”) The latter term has a lengthy and well-trod history as a racist insult, an unambiguous pejorative against black people when used by non-black people. The former is a reference to a pop cultural character from books published in the 1960s and movie adaptations produced the following decade. One is a degrading slur meant to dehumanize the target; the other is a metaphor with unflattering connotations: that the target bears a similarity to a character infamous for his lack of integrity.
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
add a comment |
I don't think it's "Fredo" specifically that's the insult. Calling someone by a name that's stereotypically associated with their ethnicity is likely to be viewed as racism. So he would have a similar problem if he called him "Luigi" ("Mario" might work for others, but not him, because that's his father's and son's actual names), called an Arab "Muhammed", or called a Mexican "Juan". This type of name-calling conflates all members of the ethnicity, which is practically the definition of racism, although I don't think it's considered as bad as using terms related to stereotyped activities (e.g. "spear-chucker" for black men).
However, Fredo may be insulting in multiple ways. Not only is it a stereotypical name, but it's also a weak character in a movie that emphasizes another stereotype, that Italian-Americans are gangsters.
However, I don't think it's an established, idiomatic insult like the N-word. I think Cuomo was exaggerating when he said that this was like the N-word to Italian-Americans. From Vox.com:
But Cuomo is being disingenuous at best when he says that Fredo is an insult that’s equivalent to the n-word. (In a statement of support for Cuomo, CNN also characterized the name as an “ethnic slur.”) The latter term has a lengthy and well-trod history as a racist insult, an unambiguous pejorative against black people when used by non-black people. The former is a reference to a pop cultural character from books published in the 1960s and movie adaptations produced the following decade. One is a degrading slur meant to dehumanize the target; the other is a metaphor with unflattering connotations: that the target bears a similarity to a character infamous for his lack of integrity.
I don't think it's "Fredo" specifically that's the insult. Calling someone by a name that's stereotypically associated with their ethnicity is likely to be viewed as racism. So he would have a similar problem if he called him "Luigi" ("Mario" might work for others, but not him, because that's his father's and son's actual names), called an Arab "Muhammed", or called a Mexican "Juan". This type of name-calling conflates all members of the ethnicity, which is practically the definition of racism, although I don't think it's considered as bad as using terms related to stereotyped activities (e.g. "spear-chucker" for black men).
However, Fredo may be insulting in multiple ways. Not only is it a stereotypical name, but it's also a weak character in a movie that emphasizes another stereotype, that Italian-Americans are gangsters.
However, I don't think it's an established, idiomatic insult like the N-word. I think Cuomo was exaggerating when he said that this was like the N-word to Italian-Americans. From Vox.com:
But Cuomo is being disingenuous at best when he says that Fredo is an insult that’s equivalent to the n-word. (In a statement of support for Cuomo, CNN also characterized the name as an “ethnic slur.”) The latter term has a lengthy and well-trod history as a racist insult, an unambiguous pejorative against black people when used by non-black people. The former is a reference to a pop cultural character from books published in the 1960s and movie adaptations produced the following decade. One is a degrading slur meant to dehumanize the target; the other is a metaphor with unflattering connotations: that the target bears a similarity to a character infamous for his lack of integrity.
edited 23 hours ago
answered yesterday
BarmarBarmar
10.9k17 silver badges35 bronze badges
10.9k17 silver badges35 bronze badges
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
add a comment |
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
2
2
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
I don't see why "Mario" would be any less offensive. None of these names is intrinsically offensive as a name; the offense is from using a stereotype rather than the person's actual name. If you call him Mario, he's not going to think, "Well, Mario is a perfectly nice name. It's my father's name and I gave it to my son. But, man, I'd really flip out if he'd called me Luigi."
– David Richerby
yesterday
3
3
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
I just assumed he wouldn't take offense to a family name, maybe someone is just confusing him with his father.
– Barmar
yesterday
4
4
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
But for anyone else, it conjures up Super Mario, who talks with a stereotypical Italian accent.
– Barmar
yesterday
add a comment |
Trump was re-tweeting a late-night comic who is allowed to be funny.
In The Godfather (1972) John Cazale plays the brother Fredo. He eventually takes issue with the way he is treated as the less intelligent gopher, worker bee, by everyone in the organization. The name has taken on this role in popular culture.
The man using "Fredo" as the name professed that he really thought that was Mr. Cuomo's name. I imagine this is what infuriated Mr. Cuomo even more.
There are currently several montages of people in public forums using this term all over the news from some years ago up until recently. It has become the latest offense for which to take umbrage, first or second hand, when there is nothing else worth reporting.
New contributor
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
Trump was re-tweeting a late-night comic who is allowed to be funny.
In The Godfather (1972) John Cazale plays the brother Fredo. He eventually takes issue with the way he is treated as the less intelligent gopher, worker bee, by everyone in the organization. The name has taken on this role in popular culture.
The man using "Fredo" as the name professed that he really thought that was Mr. Cuomo's name. I imagine this is what infuriated Mr. Cuomo even more.
There are currently several montages of people in public forums using this term all over the news from some years ago up until recently. It has become the latest offense for which to take umbrage, first or second hand, when there is nothing else worth reporting.
New contributor
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
Trump was re-tweeting a late-night comic who is allowed to be funny.
In The Godfather (1972) John Cazale plays the brother Fredo. He eventually takes issue with the way he is treated as the less intelligent gopher, worker bee, by everyone in the organization. The name has taken on this role in popular culture.
The man using "Fredo" as the name professed that he really thought that was Mr. Cuomo's name. I imagine this is what infuriated Mr. Cuomo even more.
There are currently several montages of people in public forums using this term all over the news from some years ago up until recently. It has become the latest offense for which to take umbrage, first or second hand, when there is nothing else worth reporting.
New contributor
Trump was re-tweeting a late-night comic who is allowed to be funny.
In The Godfather (1972) John Cazale plays the brother Fredo. He eventually takes issue with the way he is treated as the less intelligent gopher, worker bee, by everyone in the organization. The name has taken on this role in popular culture.
The man using "Fredo" as the name professed that he really thought that was Mr. Cuomo's name. I imagine this is what infuriated Mr. Cuomo even more.
There are currently several montages of people in public forums using this term all over the news from some years ago up until recently. It has become the latest offense for which to take umbrage, first or second hand, when there is nothing else worth reporting.
New contributor
edited 2 days ago
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
592 bronze badges
592 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
4
4
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
And who is this late night comic? Fallon? Corden? Colbert? Kimmel? Trevor Noah?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
3
3
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
Your answer seems to suggest that "Fredo" as as an insult is a recent phenomenon. Could you say when it started? late 80s, early noughties?
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
No idea in particular but to suggest it became that since the release of the Godfather movies in the 1970s. Not even an insult but just a reference to one's role, perhaps more derogatory over the years. And No, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.
– Elliot
2 days ago
3
3
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
You said "There are currently several montages of people in public forums" could you please provide any links that showed this usage before August 13th.
– Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
1
1
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
Here is a reference to one who made such a montage and then they play it: 560theanswer.com/content/all/morninganswerpodcasts You can begin listening at minute 34:00 or a bit before.
– Elliot
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
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7
I always heard "Guido" that way, but not "Fredo". Interesting.
– Cascabel
2 days ago
12
@Cascabel Same here. Guido I’m familiar with; Fredo is new to me as anything but an actual short form of Alfredo.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
5
@Michael_B The phrase is relevant as it establishes possible reasons for assessing the relative disparagement of the term. It may be partially begging the question, but it is very relevant. As to speculation, it may be so but disparagement (and other word meaning) is based on assessing hidden mental states.
– Mitch
2 days ago
5
The question presumes that Fredo is or has been in fact an ethnic insult, which is dubious at best.
– chrylis
yesterday
5
Your title literally begs the question.
– chrylis
yesterday