Why Can't A Name Be Written Literally In Japanese?Does an international OR standardized phonetic...
Do multi-engine jets need all engines with equal age to reduce asymmetry in thrust and fuel consumption arising out of deterioration?
What is Soda Fountain Etiquette?
How to prevent a hosting company from accessing a VM's encryption keys?
Should I ask for a raise one month before the end of an internship?
What's the point of fighting monsters in Zelda BotW?
How could a self contained organic body propel itself in space
Is it unusual for a math department not to have a mail/web server?
What ways are there to "PEEK" memory sections in (different) BASIC(s)
Why does a sticker slowly peel off, but if it is pulled quickly it tears?
Why is there not a willingness from the world to step in between Pakistan and India?
In how many ways we can distribute 7 distinct balls among 3 students such that everyone gets at least 2 balls?
Why did Starhopper's exhaust plume become brighter just before landing?
What does GDPR mean to myself regarding my own data?
Are there any to-scale diagrams of the TRAPPIST-1 system?
Why does AM radio react to IR remote?
If I said I had $100 when asked, but I actually had $200, would I be lying by omission?
Should I use the words "pyromancy" and "necromancy" even if they don't mean what people think they do?
Get contents before a colon
Template factorial function without template specialization
RAID0 instead of RAID1 or 5, is this crazy?
How to handle inventory and story of a player leaving
Find feasible point in polynomial time in linear programming
Which polygons can be turned inside out by a smooth deformation?
Stolen MacBook should I worry about my data?
Why Can't A Name Be Written Literally In Japanese?
Does an international OR standardized phonetic alphabet/notation system exist to depict all the Hiragana/Katakana sounds?Why is Austin spelled with an オ?How to translate historical names which don't necessarily have an equivalent in Japanese?Help with “My little sister can't run this fast” in the style of ~こんなに~わけがないHow to refer to kana verballyWhy is the Japanese word for Brunei ブルネイ and not ブルナイ?What does Ukiyo (浮世) mean?Why are Japanese fonts different to Chinese?Can native Japanese speakers pick up a distinctive accent in people whose first language contains contour tones?Looking to understand a fantasy name
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
My Japanese knowledge is very limited, so I am not good in Japanese alphabet.
With the help of an online Japanese name converter, I tried writing a name in Japanese, but the resulting name does not sound exactly as it is in English. It seems some characters turn into other characters.
The name is: Siavash Divani
The result is: シアバシュ ディバニ (shiabashu dibani)
As you see in the parentheses, it sounds different from the English spelling. Is it possible to write the name in Japanese in a way that sounds just the way it is written in English? If the answer is no, why? Wikipedia says that only the kanji system has over 50,000 characters. So, it seems it should support writing foreign names in a way that sounds the way you like.
translation pronunciation katakana
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
My Japanese knowledge is very limited, so I am not good in Japanese alphabet.
With the help of an online Japanese name converter, I tried writing a name in Japanese, but the resulting name does not sound exactly as it is in English. It seems some characters turn into other characters.
The name is: Siavash Divani
The result is: シアバシュ ディバニ (shiabashu dibani)
As you see in the parentheses, it sounds different from the English spelling. Is it possible to write the name in Japanese in a way that sounds just the way it is written in English? If the answer is no, why? Wikipedia says that only the kanji system has over 50,000 characters. So, it seems it should support writing foreign names in a way that sounds the way you like.
translation pronunciation katakana
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
2
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago
add a comment |
My Japanese knowledge is very limited, so I am not good in Japanese alphabet.
With the help of an online Japanese name converter, I tried writing a name in Japanese, but the resulting name does not sound exactly as it is in English. It seems some characters turn into other characters.
The name is: Siavash Divani
The result is: シアバシュ ディバニ (shiabashu dibani)
As you see in the parentheses, it sounds different from the English spelling. Is it possible to write the name in Japanese in a way that sounds just the way it is written in English? If the answer is no, why? Wikipedia says that only the kanji system has over 50,000 characters. So, it seems it should support writing foreign names in a way that sounds the way you like.
translation pronunciation katakana
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
My Japanese knowledge is very limited, so I am not good in Japanese alphabet.
With the help of an online Japanese name converter, I tried writing a name in Japanese, but the resulting name does not sound exactly as it is in English. It seems some characters turn into other characters.
The name is: Siavash Divani
The result is: シアバシュ ディバニ (shiabashu dibani)
As you see in the parentheses, it sounds different from the English spelling. Is it possible to write the name in Japanese in a way that sounds just the way it is written in English? If the answer is no, why? Wikipedia says that only the kanji system has over 50,000 characters. So, it seems it should support writing foreign names in a way that sounds the way you like.
translation pronunciation katakana
translation pronunciation katakana
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 8 hours ago


JACK
2,5751 gold badge14 silver badges47 bronze badges
2,5751 gold badge14 silver badges47 bronze badges
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
codezombiecodezombie
1062 bronze badges
1062 bronze badges
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
codezombie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
2
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
2
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago
2
2
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
2
2
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Disclaimer - this is a simplified answer, but ...
As with any language, you must differentiate between the actual sounds (phonology) and the writing system which represents the language (orthography). Although there are several thousand kanji characters which form the basis of the writing system (2136 on the official list), that doesn't mean there are 2136 individual sounds. In fact, there are approximately 50 sounds in Japanese. By 'sounds', I mean the variations of vowel and consonant combinations which are used in spoken Japanese.
That is probably a lot less than you imagined. As such, there are some sounds that exist in other languages which are not easily transferred to Japanese. They simply are not part of the standard collection of sounds in Japanese phonology. A famous example is that there is no strict equivalent of 'l' and 'r' in Japanese - the ら、り、る、れ、ろ sounds are used to represent both. So if your name was 'Roland', it would be difficult to represent the difference between the 'r' and 'l' sounds. It would be ローランド, which when pronounced would not contain the distinction that you would hear if pronounced in English, for example.
Basically, there are just some sounds that exist in other languages which cannot easily be phonemically represented in Japanese.
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The amount of kanji is irrelevant because they are a writing system. The thing is that, when writing a foreign word in japanese, what happens is that the sound of the word is aproximated to the sounds available in the Japanese language, and then it can be written down using a Japanese syllabary such as hiragana or katakana (not Kanji). What you see in alphabet script is just the transliteration from the version in the japanese syllabary (where the original pronunciation has been lost already) to the western alphabet script.
For this reason, what is important here is the set of sounds (to be accurate, phonemes) that Japanese people use in their tongue. This set of sounds is not so large when compared to other languages.
Let's compare what says wikipedia in regards of phonemes for both Japanese and English:
The phonology of Japanese features about 15 consonant phonemes, the cross-linguistically typical five-vowel system of /a, i, u, e, o/, and a relatively simple phonotactic distribution of phonemes allowing few consonant clusters.
The number and distribution of phonemes in English vary from dialect to dialect, and also depend on the interpretation of the individual researcher. The number of consonant phonemes is generally put at 24 (or slightly more). The number of vowels is subject to greater variation; in the system presented on this page there are 20–25 vowel phonemes in Received Pronunciation, 14–16 in General American and 19–20 in Australian English.
Japanese: 15 consonant phonemes and 5 vowels
English: 24 consonant phonemes and 14 vowels (at least)
Since there are far more sounds in English than in Japanese, that means for sure that there are English sounds that Japanese people can't say using their phonetic system. That's one of the reasons why it is not possible to say foreign words with an accurate pronunciation for Japanese people. The sound "si" does not exist in Japanese, that's why the "Si" at Siavash becomes "Shi".
Another aspect which is equally important is that, aside from ん (which sounds like 'n'), any other consonant phoneme in japanese is compulsory followed by a vowel, so it is not possible to reproduce combinations of consonant sounds together with accuracy, nor consonant phonemes alone either. That's the reason why the "sh" at Siavash is changed to "shu". In the japanese syste, separating 'sh' from 'u' (or another vowel) is not a possibility. They form an indivisible unit both in terms of writing (Shi, ジ , one single symbol) and speech.
There may be other limitations or constraints that contribute to change significantly the original pronunciation of a foreign word in Japanese.
add a comment |
The simple answer is that there aren't enough sounds.
There are set sounds for the vowels "e", "i", "a", "o", and "u", as well as 40 other standard sounds and one standalone "n." These sounds are "k", "s", "t", "n", "h", "r", which each have the full three kana, as well as "y" that has three kana and "w" that has two (Okinawan has two other "w"s in we and wi, but these are non-standard)
If we add the voiced "Diacritics", then we add sounds for "g", "z", "d", "b", and "p", adding another 25.
Adding digraphs (e.g., "kya", "sha"), we get another 30 sounds.
This is a grand total of 103 sounds. However, you will notice that a few sounds are missing when compared to English: "v", "l", "x", and "q".
X is normally substituted for a "z-" sound (as in "xylophone"), while using x (as in "x-ray") is pronounced "ekkusu."
L is almost always substituted with "r-", thsu "ball" can be "baru".
Q is substituted with a "k-"
V is seems to be always pronounced as a "b", and the standard writing is as such, however the non-standard writing can be done by putting the voice marks by the "u" kana and writing a smaller vowel kana next to it (similar to the digraphs).
Your program likely didn't utilize this way of writing "v", so if you really want it:
シアヴァシュ ディヴァニ
As an aside, the reason for the trailing "u" on your first name is that Japanese is a phonetic language, so with the exception of "n" (sometimes pronounced "m" when before a "p" or "b"), all letters have a consonant followed by a vowel. Most adults drop the trailing "u" when reading (thus hearing "des" instead of "desu"), so your name should be pronounced fairly close.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "257"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
codezombie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fjapanese.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f70399%2fwhy-cant-a-name-be-written-literally-in-japanese%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Disclaimer - this is a simplified answer, but ...
As with any language, you must differentiate between the actual sounds (phonology) and the writing system which represents the language (orthography). Although there are several thousand kanji characters which form the basis of the writing system (2136 on the official list), that doesn't mean there are 2136 individual sounds. In fact, there are approximately 50 sounds in Japanese. By 'sounds', I mean the variations of vowel and consonant combinations which are used in spoken Japanese.
That is probably a lot less than you imagined. As such, there are some sounds that exist in other languages which are not easily transferred to Japanese. They simply are not part of the standard collection of sounds in Japanese phonology. A famous example is that there is no strict equivalent of 'l' and 'r' in Japanese - the ら、り、る、れ、ろ sounds are used to represent both. So if your name was 'Roland', it would be difficult to represent the difference between the 'r' and 'l' sounds. It would be ローランド, which when pronounced would not contain the distinction that you would hear if pronounced in English, for example.
Basically, there are just some sounds that exist in other languages which cannot easily be phonemically represented in Japanese.
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Disclaimer - this is a simplified answer, but ...
As with any language, you must differentiate between the actual sounds (phonology) and the writing system which represents the language (orthography). Although there are several thousand kanji characters which form the basis of the writing system (2136 on the official list), that doesn't mean there are 2136 individual sounds. In fact, there are approximately 50 sounds in Japanese. By 'sounds', I mean the variations of vowel and consonant combinations which are used in spoken Japanese.
That is probably a lot less than you imagined. As such, there are some sounds that exist in other languages which are not easily transferred to Japanese. They simply are not part of the standard collection of sounds in Japanese phonology. A famous example is that there is no strict equivalent of 'l' and 'r' in Japanese - the ら、り、る、れ、ろ sounds are used to represent both. So if your name was 'Roland', it would be difficult to represent the difference between the 'r' and 'l' sounds. It would be ローランド, which when pronounced would not contain the distinction that you would hear if pronounced in English, for example.
Basically, there are just some sounds that exist in other languages which cannot easily be phonemically represented in Japanese.
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Disclaimer - this is a simplified answer, but ...
As with any language, you must differentiate between the actual sounds (phonology) and the writing system which represents the language (orthography). Although there are several thousand kanji characters which form the basis of the writing system (2136 on the official list), that doesn't mean there are 2136 individual sounds. In fact, there are approximately 50 sounds in Japanese. By 'sounds', I mean the variations of vowel and consonant combinations which are used in spoken Japanese.
That is probably a lot less than you imagined. As such, there are some sounds that exist in other languages which are not easily transferred to Japanese. They simply are not part of the standard collection of sounds in Japanese phonology. A famous example is that there is no strict equivalent of 'l' and 'r' in Japanese - the ら、り、る、れ、ろ sounds are used to represent both. So if your name was 'Roland', it would be difficult to represent the difference between the 'r' and 'l' sounds. It would be ローランド, which when pronounced would not contain the distinction that you would hear if pronounced in English, for example.
Basically, there are just some sounds that exist in other languages which cannot easily be phonemically represented in Japanese.
Disclaimer - this is a simplified answer, but ...
As with any language, you must differentiate between the actual sounds (phonology) and the writing system which represents the language (orthography). Although there are several thousand kanji characters which form the basis of the writing system (2136 on the official list), that doesn't mean there are 2136 individual sounds. In fact, there are approximately 50 sounds in Japanese. By 'sounds', I mean the variations of vowel and consonant combinations which are used in spoken Japanese.
That is probably a lot less than you imagined. As such, there are some sounds that exist in other languages which are not easily transferred to Japanese. They simply are not part of the standard collection of sounds in Japanese phonology. A famous example is that there is no strict equivalent of 'l' and 'r' in Japanese - the ら、り、る、れ、ろ sounds are used to represent both. So if your name was 'Roland', it would be difficult to represent the difference between the 'r' and 'l' sounds. It would be ローランド, which when pronounced would not contain the distinction that you would hear if pronounced in English, for example.
Basically, there are just some sounds that exist in other languages which cannot easily be phonemically represented in Japanese.
answered 5 hours ago


kandymankandyman
4,9878 silver badges28 bronze badges
4,9878 silver badges28 bronze badges
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
Yep. You could also explain about phonotactics, if you wanted to cover why the added /u/ in the OP’s name is unavoidable.
– snailboat♦
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The amount of kanji is irrelevant because they are a writing system. The thing is that, when writing a foreign word in japanese, what happens is that the sound of the word is aproximated to the sounds available in the Japanese language, and then it can be written down using a Japanese syllabary such as hiragana or katakana (not Kanji). What you see in alphabet script is just the transliteration from the version in the japanese syllabary (where the original pronunciation has been lost already) to the western alphabet script.
For this reason, what is important here is the set of sounds (to be accurate, phonemes) that Japanese people use in their tongue. This set of sounds is not so large when compared to other languages.
Let's compare what says wikipedia in regards of phonemes for both Japanese and English:
The phonology of Japanese features about 15 consonant phonemes, the cross-linguistically typical five-vowel system of /a, i, u, e, o/, and a relatively simple phonotactic distribution of phonemes allowing few consonant clusters.
The number and distribution of phonemes in English vary from dialect to dialect, and also depend on the interpretation of the individual researcher. The number of consonant phonemes is generally put at 24 (or slightly more). The number of vowels is subject to greater variation; in the system presented on this page there are 20–25 vowel phonemes in Received Pronunciation, 14–16 in General American and 19–20 in Australian English.
Japanese: 15 consonant phonemes and 5 vowels
English: 24 consonant phonemes and 14 vowels (at least)
Since there are far more sounds in English than in Japanese, that means for sure that there are English sounds that Japanese people can't say using their phonetic system. That's one of the reasons why it is not possible to say foreign words with an accurate pronunciation for Japanese people. The sound "si" does not exist in Japanese, that's why the "Si" at Siavash becomes "Shi".
Another aspect which is equally important is that, aside from ん (which sounds like 'n'), any other consonant phoneme in japanese is compulsory followed by a vowel, so it is not possible to reproduce combinations of consonant sounds together with accuracy, nor consonant phonemes alone either. That's the reason why the "sh" at Siavash is changed to "shu". In the japanese syste, separating 'sh' from 'u' (or another vowel) is not a possibility. They form an indivisible unit both in terms of writing (Shi, ジ , one single symbol) and speech.
There may be other limitations or constraints that contribute to change significantly the original pronunciation of a foreign word in Japanese.
add a comment |
The amount of kanji is irrelevant because they are a writing system. The thing is that, when writing a foreign word in japanese, what happens is that the sound of the word is aproximated to the sounds available in the Japanese language, and then it can be written down using a Japanese syllabary such as hiragana or katakana (not Kanji). What you see in alphabet script is just the transliteration from the version in the japanese syllabary (where the original pronunciation has been lost already) to the western alphabet script.
For this reason, what is important here is the set of sounds (to be accurate, phonemes) that Japanese people use in their tongue. This set of sounds is not so large when compared to other languages.
Let's compare what says wikipedia in regards of phonemes for both Japanese and English:
The phonology of Japanese features about 15 consonant phonemes, the cross-linguistically typical five-vowel system of /a, i, u, e, o/, and a relatively simple phonotactic distribution of phonemes allowing few consonant clusters.
The number and distribution of phonemes in English vary from dialect to dialect, and also depend on the interpretation of the individual researcher. The number of consonant phonemes is generally put at 24 (or slightly more). The number of vowels is subject to greater variation; in the system presented on this page there are 20–25 vowel phonemes in Received Pronunciation, 14–16 in General American and 19–20 in Australian English.
Japanese: 15 consonant phonemes and 5 vowels
English: 24 consonant phonemes and 14 vowels (at least)
Since there are far more sounds in English than in Japanese, that means for sure that there are English sounds that Japanese people can't say using their phonetic system. That's one of the reasons why it is not possible to say foreign words with an accurate pronunciation for Japanese people. The sound "si" does not exist in Japanese, that's why the "Si" at Siavash becomes "Shi".
Another aspect which is equally important is that, aside from ん (which sounds like 'n'), any other consonant phoneme in japanese is compulsory followed by a vowel, so it is not possible to reproduce combinations of consonant sounds together with accuracy, nor consonant phonemes alone either. That's the reason why the "sh" at Siavash is changed to "shu". In the japanese syste, separating 'sh' from 'u' (or another vowel) is not a possibility. They form an indivisible unit both in terms of writing (Shi, ジ , one single symbol) and speech.
There may be other limitations or constraints that contribute to change significantly the original pronunciation of a foreign word in Japanese.
add a comment |
The amount of kanji is irrelevant because they are a writing system. The thing is that, when writing a foreign word in japanese, what happens is that the sound of the word is aproximated to the sounds available in the Japanese language, and then it can be written down using a Japanese syllabary such as hiragana or katakana (not Kanji). What you see in alphabet script is just the transliteration from the version in the japanese syllabary (where the original pronunciation has been lost already) to the western alphabet script.
For this reason, what is important here is the set of sounds (to be accurate, phonemes) that Japanese people use in their tongue. This set of sounds is not so large when compared to other languages.
Let's compare what says wikipedia in regards of phonemes for both Japanese and English:
The phonology of Japanese features about 15 consonant phonemes, the cross-linguistically typical five-vowel system of /a, i, u, e, o/, and a relatively simple phonotactic distribution of phonemes allowing few consonant clusters.
The number and distribution of phonemes in English vary from dialect to dialect, and also depend on the interpretation of the individual researcher. The number of consonant phonemes is generally put at 24 (or slightly more). The number of vowels is subject to greater variation; in the system presented on this page there are 20–25 vowel phonemes in Received Pronunciation, 14–16 in General American and 19–20 in Australian English.
Japanese: 15 consonant phonemes and 5 vowels
English: 24 consonant phonemes and 14 vowels (at least)
Since there are far more sounds in English than in Japanese, that means for sure that there are English sounds that Japanese people can't say using their phonetic system. That's one of the reasons why it is not possible to say foreign words with an accurate pronunciation for Japanese people. The sound "si" does not exist in Japanese, that's why the "Si" at Siavash becomes "Shi".
Another aspect which is equally important is that, aside from ん (which sounds like 'n'), any other consonant phoneme in japanese is compulsory followed by a vowel, so it is not possible to reproduce combinations of consonant sounds together with accuracy, nor consonant phonemes alone either. That's the reason why the "sh" at Siavash is changed to "shu". In the japanese syste, separating 'sh' from 'u' (or another vowel) is not a possibility. They form an indivisible unit both in terms of writing (Shi, ジ , one single symbol) and speech.
There may be other limitations or constraints that contribute to change significantly the original pronunciation of a foreign word in Japanese.
The amount of kanji is irrelevant because they are a writing system. The thing is that, when writing a foreign word in japanese, what happens is that the sound of the word is aproximated to the sounds available in the Japanese language, and then it can be written down using a Japanese syllabary such as hiragana or katakana (not Kanji). What you see in alphabet script is just the transliteration from the version in the japanese syllabary (where the original pronunciation has been lost already) to the western alphabet script.
For this reason, what is important here is the set of sounds (to be accurate, phonemes) that Japanese people use in their tongue. This set of sounds is not so large when compared to other languages.
Let's compare what says wikipedia in regards of phonemes for both Japanese and English:
The phonology of Japanese features about 15 consonant phonemes, the cross-linguistically typical five-vowel system of /a, i, u, e, o/, and a relatively simple phonotactic distribution of phonemes allowing few consonant clusters.
The number and distribution of phonemes in English vary from dialect to dialect, and also depend on the interpretation of the individual researcher. The number of consonant phonemes is generally put at 24 (or slightly more). The number of vowels is subject to greater variation; in the system presented on this page there are 20–25 vowel phonemes in Received Pronunciation, 14–16 in General American and 19–20 in Australian English.
Japanese: 15 consonant phonemes and 5 vowels
English: 24 consonant phonemes and 14 vowels (at least)
Since there are far more sounds in English than in Japanese, that means for sure that there are English sounds that Japanese people can't say using their phonetic system. That's one of the reasons why it is not possible to say foreign words with an accurate pronunciation for Japanese people. The sound "si" does not exist in Japanese, that's why the "Si" at Siavash becomes "Shi".
Another aspect which is equally important is that, aside from ん (which sounds like 'n'), any other consonant phoneme in japanese is compulsory followed by a vowel, so it is not possible to reproduce combinations of consonant sounds together with accuracy, nor consonant phonemes alone either. That's the reason why the "sh" at Siavash is changed to "shu". In the japanese syste, separating 'sh' from 'u' (or another vowel) is not a possibility. They form an indivisible unit both in terms of writing (Shi, ジ , one single symbol) and speech.
There may be other limitations or constraints that contribute to change significantly the original pronunciation of a foreign word in Japanese.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
jarmanso7jarmanso7
74316 bronze badges
74316 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
The simple answer is that there aren't enough sounds.
There are set sounds for the vowels "e", "i", "a", "o", and "u", as well as 40 other standard sounds and one standalone "n." These sounds are "k", "s", "t", "n", "h", "r", which each have the full three kana, as well as "y" that has three kana and "w" that has two (Okinawan has two other "w"s in we and wi, but these are non-standard)
If we add the voiced "Diacritics", then we add sounds for "g", "z", "d", "b", and "p", adding another 25.
Adding digraphs (e.g., "kya", "sha"), we get another 30 sounds.
This is a grand total of 103 sounds. However, you will notice that a few sounds are missing when compared to English: "v", "l", "x", and "q".
X is normally substituted for a "z-" sound (as in "xylophone"), while using x (as in "x-ray") is pronounced "ekkusu."
L is almost always substituted with "r-", thsu "ball" can be "baru".
Q is substituted with a "k-"
V is seems to be always pronounced as a "b", and the standard writing is as such, however the non-standard writing can be done by putting the voice marks by the "u" kana and writing a smaller vowel kana next to it (similar to the digraphs).
Your program likely didn't utilize this way of writing "v", so if you really want it:
シアヴァシュ ディヴァニ
As an aside, the reason for the trailing "u" on your first name is that Japanese is a phonetic language, so with the exception of "n" (sometimes pronounced "m" when before a "p" or "b"), all letters have a consonant followed by a vowel. Most adults drop the trailing "u" when reading (thus hearing "des" instead of "desu"), so your name should be pronounced fairly close.
add a comment |
The simple answer is that there aren't enough sounds.
There are set sounds for the vowels "e", "i", "a", "o", and "u", as well as 40 other standard sounds and one standalone "n." These sounds are "k", "s", "t", "n", "h", "r", which each have the full three kana, as well as "y" that has three kana and "w" that has two (Okinawan has two other "w"s in we and wi, but these are non-standard)
If we add the voiced "Diacritics", then we add sounds for "g", "z", "d", "b", and "p", adding another 25.
Adding digraphs (e.g., "kya", "sha"), we get another 30 sounds.
This is a grand total of 103 sounds. However, you will notice that a few sounds are missing when compared to English: "v", "l", "x", and "q".
X is normally substituted for a "z-" sound (as in "xylophone"), while using x (as in "x-ray") is pronounced "ekkusu."
L is almost always substituted with "r-", thsu "ball" can be "baru".
Q is substituted with a "k-"
V is seems to be always pronounced as a "b", and the standard writing is as such, however the non-standard writing can be done by putting the voice marks by the "u" kana and writing a smaller vowel kana next to it (similar to the digraphs).
Your program likely didn't utilize this way of writing "v", so if you really want it:
シアヴァシュ ディヴァニ
As an aside, the reason for the trailing "u" on your first name is that Japanese is a phonetic language, so with the exception of "n" (sometimes pronounced "m" when before a "p" or "b"), all letters have a consonant followed by a vowel. Most adults drop the trailing "u" when reading (thus hearing "des" instead of "desu"), so your name should be pronounced fairly close.
add a comment |
The simple answer is that there aren't enough sounds.
There are set sounds for the vowels "e", "i", "a", "o", and "u", as well as 40 other standard sounds and one standalone "n." These sounds are "k", "s", "t", "n", "h", "r", which each have the full three kana, as well as "y" that has three kana and "w" that has two (Okinawan has two other "w"s in we and wi, but these are non-standard)
If we add the voiced "Diacritics", then we add sounds for "g", "z", "d", "b", and "p", adding another 25.
Adding digraphs (e.g., "kya", "sha"), we get another 30 sounds.
This is a grand total of 103 sounds. However, you will notice that a few sounds are missing when compared to English: "v", "l", "x", and "q".
X is normally substituted for a "z-" sound (as in "xylophone"), while using x (as in "x-ray") is pronounced "ekkusu."
L is almost always substituted with "r-", thsu "ball" can be "baru".
Q is substituted with a "k-"
V is seems to be always pronounced as a "b", and the standard writing is as such, however the non-standard writing can be done by putting the voice marks by the "u" kana and writing a smaller vowel kana next to it (similar to the digraphs).
Your program likely didn't utilize this way of writing "v", so if you really want it:
シアヴァシュ ディヴァニ
As an aside, the reason for the trailing "u" on your first name is that Japanese is a phonetic language, so with the exception of "n" (sometimes pronounced "m" when before a "p" or "b"), all letters have a consonant followed by a vowel. Most adults drop the trailing "u" when reading (thus hearing "des" instead of "desu"), so your name should be pronounced fairly close.
The simple answer is that there aren't enough sounds.
There are set sounds for the vowels "e", "i", "a", "o", and "u", as well as 40 other standard sounds and one standalone "n." These sounds are "k", "s", "t", "n", "h", "r", which each have the full three kana, as well as "y" that has three kana and "w" that has two (Okinawan has two other "w"s in we and wi, but these are non-standard)
If we add the voiced "Diacritics", then we add sounds for "g", "z", "d", "b", and "p", adding another 25.
Adding digraphs (e.g., "kya", "sha"), we get another 30 sounds.
This is a grand total of 103 sounds. However, you will notice that a few sounds are missing when compared to English: "v", "l", "x", and "q".
X is normally substituted for a "z-" sound (as in "xylophone"), while using x (as in "x-ray") is pronounced "ekkusu."
L is almost always substituted with "r-", thsu "ball" can be "baru".
Q is substituted with a "k-"
V is seems to be always pronounced as a "b", and the standard writing is as such, however the non-standard writing can be done by putting the voice marks by the "u" kana and writing a smaller vowel kana next to it (similar to the digraphs).
Your program likely didn't utilize this way of writing "v", so if you really want it:
シアヴァシュ ディヴァニ
As an aside, the reason for the trailing "u" on your first name is that Japanese is a phonetic language, so with the exception of "n" (sometimes pronounced "m" when before a "p" or "b"), all letters have a consonant followed by a vowel. Most adults drop the trailing "u" when reading (thus hearing "des" instead of "desu"), so your name should be pronounced fairly close.
answered 17 mins ago
awsirkisawsirkis
133 bronze badges
133 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
codezombie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
codezombie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
codezombie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
codezombie is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Japanese Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fjapanese.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f70399%2fwhy-cant-a-name-be-written-literally-in-japanese%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
This will be helpful to you. Focus attention on the availability of sounds written in Katakana, since all foreign names use Katakana for writing a person's name.
– JACK
8 hours ago
2
Kandyman's answer is a good one. Another consideration -- there are various sounds with specific spellings in the Devanagari script, and those sounds are not present in English. For instance, Hindi distinguishes between unaspirated //b// or ⟨ ब ⟩ and aspirated //bh// or ⟨ भ ⟩. However, English makes no such distinction, and monolingual English speakers generally won't be able to hear or pronounce the difference. Similarly, Japanese has no //v// sound, only a //b// sound, as well as a requirement that all consonants except //n// must have a following vowel. Hence the differences you note.
– Eiríkr Útlendi
5 hours ago