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Was “чёрствый” ever a synonym for fresh in Russian?

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2

In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.

The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?

этимология история-языка other-languages slavic

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

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asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

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• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
  
  – tum_
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
  
  – tum_
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
  
  – shabunc♦
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
  
  – shabunc♦
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
  
  – tum_
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 4 more comments

2

In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.

The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?

этимология история-языка other-languages slavic

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

3,19111 gold badge1414 silver badges4949 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It is a pretty common phenomenon in related (but still very different!) languages. A common language splits and a common word starts evolving in different directions. Within a few centuries they happen to have drifted very far apart. (it's not an inconsistency)
  
  – tum_
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  And the "lists of funny words in Czech" are in abundance on the Internet, like this one, for example. (Many of them a full of fake words, so use with care).
  
  – tum_
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's not a question about Russian language - it's a question why Czech cognate for a Russian word means something different.
  
  – shabunc♦
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Languages do not owe each other a dime and calling the fact that some cognate has different meaning in different languages "appalling inconsistency" it's a very strange thing to do.
  
  – shabunc♦
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @shabunc кхм - I was just in the middle of typing a rather long answer, actually. "A bit" disappointed that all this turned out to be a waste of time... But technically you are right, so - to hell with it.
  
  – tum_
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 4 more comments

In Russian, черствый хлеб is stale bread. And to my great surprise, I recently learned that in Czech, čerstvý chléb is precisely the opposite thing: fresh bread.

The question is: has "чёрствый" ever meant something else in Russian other than stale?

этимология история-языка other-languages slavic

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

3,19111 gold badge1414 silver badges4949 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

3,19111 gold badge1414 silver badges4949 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

3,19111 gold badge1414 silver badges4949 bronze badges

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

edited 3 hours ago

shabunc♦

25.6k44 gold badges6262 silver badges112112 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

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asked 8 hours ago

MitsukoMitsuko

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2 Answers
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4

Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.

There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
  
  – Yellow Sky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

1

The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".

It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

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add a comment
 | 

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4

Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.

There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
  
  – Yellow Sky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

4

Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.

There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  It's rather like this: Cz. strong > good > fresh; Ru. strong > hard > dried up, stale.
  
  – Yellow Sky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

Looking at the meanings of cognates of the Proto-Slavic čь̑rstvъ, one can notice the common meaning 'hard', 'strong', 'sharp'. I guess the Czechs and the Slovaks view fresh bread as 'hard on the outside', i.e. having a crispy crust, while Russian, Polish and others see it as 'hard on the inside', i.e. stale. It's just my guess.

There are other examples of this kind where cognates evolve to mean opposite things, e.g. Polish uroda 'beauty' and Russian урод 'ugly person'.

share|improve this answer

edited 7 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

edited 7 hours ago

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Sergey SlepovSergey Slepov

9,1621313 silver badges2727 bronze badges

1

The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".

It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges

add a comment
 | 

1

The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".

It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges

add a comment
 | 

The original meaning of the proto-Slavic etymon seems to have been "robust, sturdy".

It had later shifted its meaning to "hard" in Russian and to "good, wholesome" in Czech.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

Quassnoi♦Quassnoi

35.2k22 gold badges5858 silver badges134134 bronze badges