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What (if anything) are the standards for “generic” part numbers?
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If I buy an MMBT4401 from Diodes, Inc., I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from ON semiconductor, I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from Micro Commercial Co,... you get the idea. And this is hardly the only case of this; countless companies make 1N400x diodes, 2N7000 NFETs, 2N3904/MMBT3904 transistors...
I'm quite certain that these companies don't all share the exact same silicon (though some of them might be packaging and reselling silicon dice bought from the same source), so what exactly is standardized between them? Is there even a de jure standard (and if there is, who sets it), or is this all just a de facto standard?
In either case, which specific figures of merit are considered "part of the standard"? Can I trust that no 1N4001 will have a forward voltage greater than some standard value, for instance? That one I'd be pretty sure is part of the standard, but what about the parasitic series resistance? I know I wouldn't want a 1N4001 if it had a parasitic resistance of 10 ohms, but could such a diode be made and still bear the mark 1N4001?
components standard
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
If I buy an MMBT4401 from Diodes, Inc., I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from ON semiconductor, I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from Micro Commercial Co,... you get the idea. And this is hardly the only case of this; countless companies make 1N400x diodes, 2N7000 NFETs, 2N3904/MMBT3904 transistors...
I'm quite certain that these companies don't all share the exact same silicon (though some of them might be packaging and reselling silicon dice bought from the same source), so what exactly is standardized between them? Is there even a de jure standard (and if there is, who sets it), or is this all just a de facto standard?
In either case, which specific figures of merit are considered "part of the standard"? Can I trust that no 1N4001 will have a forward voltage greater than some standard value, for instance? That one I'd be pretty sure is part of the standard, but what about the parasitic series resistance? I know I wouldn't want a 1N4001 if it had a parasitic resistance of 10 ohms, but could such a diode be made and still bear the mark 1N4001?
components standard
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
If I buy an MMBT4401 from Diodes, Inc., I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from ON semiconductor, I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from Micro Commercial Co,... you get the idea. And this is hardly the only case of this; countless companies make 1N400x diodes, 2N7000 NFETs, 2N3904/MMBT3904 transistors...
I'm quite certain that these companies don't all share the exact same silicon (though some of them might be packaging and reselling silicon dice bought from the same source), so what exactly is standardized between them? Is there even a de jure standard (and if there is, who sets it), or is this all just a de facto standard?
In either case, which specific figures of merit are considered "part of the standard"? Can I trust that no 1N4001 will have a forward voltage greater than some standard value, for instance? That one I'd be pretty sure is part of the standard, but what about the parasitic series resistance? I know I wouldn't want a 1N4001 if it had a parasitic resistance of 10 ohms, but could such a diode be made and still bear the mark 1N4001?
components standard
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
$endgroup$
If I buy an MMBT4401 from Diodes, Inc., I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from ON semiconductor, I get a 40V, 0.6A NPN transistor in a SOT-23 package. If I buy an MMBT4401 from Micro Commercial Co,... you get the idea. And this is hardly the only case of this; countless companies make 1N400x diodes, 2N7000 NFETs, 2N3904/MMBT3904 transistors...
I'm quite certain that these companies don't all share the exact same silicon (though some of them might be packaging and reselling silicon dice bought from the same source), so what exactly is standardized between them? Is there even a de jure standard (and if there is, who sets it), or is this all just a de facto standard?
In either case, which specific figures of merit are considered "part of the standard"? Can I trust that no 1N4001 will have a forward voltage greater than some standard value, for instance? That one I'd be pretty sure is part of the standard, but what about the parasitic series resistance? I know I wouldn't want a 1N4001 if it had a parasitic resistance of 10 ohms, but could such a diode be made and still bear the mark 1N4001?
components standard
components standard
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
HearthHearth
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
7,6811 gold badge18 silver badges53 bronze badges
$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
A very few components are actually standardized by JEDEC (think of the 7400 logic series, for example).
Most of the components you mention are simply results of historic multi-sourcing agreements: Large customers (esp. of the military kind) wouldn't buy an obscure part that they could only get from one party.
Also, don't underestimate the history of these companies: for example, TI having all the parts that are still available in stock under the brand name of National Semi happens because the former bought the latter, and some stocks simply have a half-life of roughly eternity. Mergers and spin-offs sometimes leave multiple parties with access to the same IP.
To answer about guarantees: Um, these usually don't exist. Good luck out there and read your datasheets!
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I’m not intimate with all the details of lapsed patented designs and cross-licensed designs but I’m pretty sure the part numbers you mentioned have all expired their OEM copyrights and unless guaranteed by design ( not tested) these specs must be universal for each package. Construction and protection may vary.
These guaranteed specs are the details defined in the datasheets in tables with environmental and process limits, while the graphs for nominal are not guaranteed. They apply only to the manufacturer and the Design Engineer must ensure any alternate source in the “approved parts and suppliers list” aka AVL , —the new must meet your design requirements. You cannot always assume, even if most are the same.
The exception is if you know there is no critical difference in your requirements, you may specify any source, but pro’s take sub’s seriously.
Enforcement is only by specs, PO’s and the buyer’s financial clout.
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
A very few components are actually standardized by JEDEC (think of the 7400 logic series, for example).
Most of the components you mention are simply results of historic multi-sourcing agreements: Large customers (esp. of the military kind) wouldn't buy an obscure part that they could only get from one party.
Also, don't underestimate the history of these companies: for example, TI having all the parts that are still available in stock under the brand name of National Semi happens because the former bought the latter, and some stocks simply have a half-life of roughly eternity. Mergers and spin-offs sometimes leave multiple parties with access to the same IP.
To answer about guarantees: Um, these usually don't exist. Good luck out there and read your datasheets!
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
A very few components are actually standardized by JEDEC (think of the 7400 logic series, for example).
Most of the components you mention are simply results of historic multi-sourcing agreements: Large customers (esp. of the military kind) wouldn't buy an obscure part that they could only get from one party.
Also, don't underestimate the history of these companies: for example, TI having all the parts that are still available in stock under the brand name of National Semi happens because the former bought the latter, and some stocks simply have a half-life of roughly eternity. Mergers and spin-offs sometimes leave multiple parties with access to the same IP.
To answer about guarantees: Um, these usually don't exist. Good luck out there and read your datasheets!
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
A very few components are actually standardized by JEDEC (think of the 7400 logic series, for example).
Most of the components you mention are simply results of historic multi-sourcing agreements: Large customers (esp. of the military kind) wouldn't buy an obscure part that they could only get from one party.
Also, don't underestimate the history of these companies: for example, TI having all the parts that are still available in stock under the brand name of National Semi happens because the former bought the latter, and some stocks simply have a half-life of roughly eternity. Mergers and spin-offs sometimes leave multiple parties with access to the same IP.
To answer about guarantees: Um, these usually don't exist. Good luck out there and read your datasheets!
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$endgroup$
A very few components are actually standardized by JEDEC (think of the 7400 logic series, for example).
Most of the components you mention are simply results of historic multi-sourcing agreements: Large customers (esp. of the military kind) wouldn't buy an obscure part that they could only get from one party.
Also, don't underestimate the history of these companies: for example, TI having all the parts that are still available in stock under the brand name of National Semi happens because the former bought the latter, and some stocks simply have a half-life of roughly eternity. Mergers and spin-offs sometimes leave multiple parties with access to the same IP.
To answer about guarantees: Um, these usually don't exist. Good luck out there and read your datasheets!
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
41k3 gold badges68 silver badges111 bronze badges
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Hmm. Not a very satisfying answer, I'm afraid, but it makes sense. It'd be nice if there was some kind of cross-manufacturer minimum standard for generic parts...
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth Who would enforce it and how could it be enforced?
$endgroup$
– Spehro Pefhany
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SpehroPefhany I'm an engineer, not a... whatever you'd call the sort of person who does that stuff!
$endgroup$
– Hearth
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hearth stating intentions that have far-reaching legal consequences? Hopefully, that's called a corporate lawyer...
$endgroup$
– Marcus Müller
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MarcusMüller Lawyer, legislator, whatever the word is, I'm not one of them.
$endgroup$
– Hearth
7 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I’m not intimate with all the details of lapsed patented designs and cross-licensed designs but I’m pretty sure the part numbers you mentioned have all expired their OEM copyrights and unless guaranteed by design ( not tested) these specs must be universal for each package. Construction and protection may vary.
These guaranteed specs are the details defined in the datasheets in tables with environmental and process limits, while the graphs for nominal are not guaranteed. They apply only to the manufacturer and the Design Engineer must ensure any alternate source in the “approved parts and suppliers list” aka AVL , —the new must meet your design requirements. You cannot always assume, even if most are the same.
The exception is if you know there is no critical difference in your requirements, you may specify any source, but pro’s take sub’s seriously.
Enforcement is only by specs, PO’s and the buyer’s financial clout.
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I’m not intimate with all the details of lapsed patented designs and cross-licensed designs but I’m pretty sure the part numbers you mentioned have all expired their OEM copyrights and unless guaranteed by design ( not tested) these specs must be universal for each package. Construction and protection may vary.
These guaranteed specs are the details defined in the datasheets in tables with environmental and process limits, while the graphs for nominal are not guaranteed. They apply only to the manufacturer and the Design Engineer must ensure any alternate source in the “approved parts and suppliers list” aka AVL , —the new must meet your design requirements. You cannot always assume, even if most are the same.
The exception is if you know there is no critical difference in your requirements, you may specify any source, but pro’s take sub’s seriously.
Enforcement is only by specs, PO’s and the buyer’s financial clout.
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I’m not intimate with all the details of lapsed patented designs and cross-licensed designs but I’m pretty sure the part numbers you mentioned have all expired their OEM copyrights and unless guaranteed by design ( not tested) these specs must be universal for each package. Construction and protection may vary.
These guaranteed specs are the details defined in the datasheets in tables with environmental and process limits, while the graphs for nominal are not guaranteed. They apply only to the manufacturer and the Design Engineer must ensure any alternate source in the “approved parts and suppliers list” aka AVL , —the new must meet your design requirements. You cannot always assume, even if most are the same.
The exception is if you know there is no critical difference in your requirements, you may specify any source, but pro’s take sub’s seriously.
Enforcement is only by specs, PO’s and the buyer’s financial clout.
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
$endgroup$
I’m not intimate with all the details of lapsed patented designs and cross-licensed designs but I’m pretty sure the part numbers you mentioned have all expired their OEM copyrights and unless guaranteed by design ( not tested) these specs must be universal for each package. Construction and protection may vary.
These guaranteed specs are the details defined in the datasheets in tables with environmental and process limits, while the graphs for nominal are not guaranteed. They apply only to the manufacturer and the Design Engineer must ensure any alternate source in the “approved parts and suppliers list” aka AVL , —the new must meet your design requirements. You cannot always assume, even if most are the same.
The exception is if you know there is no critical difference in your requirements, you may specify any source, but pro’s take sub’s seriously.
Enforcement is only by specs, PO’s and the buyer’s financial clout.
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
81.2k2 gold badges30 silver badges116 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
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$begingroup$
In the particular case of the 1N4001, all suppliers give it a half-cycle surge handling of 30A, which needs R << 10 ohms. A particular egregious case is the TLV431. The ONSEMI and DiodesInc versions handle 16v, the TI version only 6v. That's the only gross difference between suppliers that I'm aware of. Read those datasheets as Marcus suggests.
$endgroup$
– Neil_UK
8 hours ago