Is this story about US tax office reasonable?How to prove I live in a specific address?In practice, how bad...
Where is the encrypted mask value?
Why are C64 games inconsistent with which joystick port they use?
I unknowingly submitted plagiarised work
Identifying an object pointer by generating and using a unique ID
Ticket sales for Queen at the Live Aid
Rename photos to match video titles
How bitcoin nodes update UTXO set when their latests blocks are replaced?
What are these (utility?) boxes at the side of the house?
Tic-Tac-Toe for the terminal
Why does the 'metric Lagrangian' approach appear to fail in Newtonian mechanics?
Which noble houses were destroyed during the Game of Thrones?
How can I find where certain bash function is defined?
Is there a general effective method to solve Smullyan style Knights and Knaves problems? Is the truth table method the most appropriate one?
Looking for a soft substance that doesn't dissolve underwater
Why does the 6502 have the BIT instruction?
Plot twist where the antagonist wins
Does this degree 12 genus 1 curve have only one point over infinitely many finite fields?
How can people dance around bonfires on Lag Lo'Omer - it's darchei emori?
How do I subvert the tropes of a train heist?
Why do they consider the Ori false gods?
Why is this Simple Puzzle impossible to solve?
How does an ARM MCU run faster than the external crystal?
Is there a down side to setting the sampling time of a SAR ADC as long as possible?
Is this resistor leaking? If so, is it a concern?
Is this story about US tax office reasonable?
How to prove I live in a specific address?In practice, how bad can this get?Do DBAs file separate taxes than the proprietor?When can “exact change” policies be enforced?Taking control of an adult's healthcareIs the use of a community currency instead of the official legal tender a tax evasion?Can language in a settlement agreement have affect on taxes for a personal injury lawsuit?Should I be taxed on electricity in Florida as a private resident?How to contest compensation as an independent contractorHow to report Airbnb income in tax return?
Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:
A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.
The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".
Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.
Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?
Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?
Or is this story not reasonably possible?
united-states tax-law debt
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
add a comment |
Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:
A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.
The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".
Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.
Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?
Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?
Or is this story not reasonably possible?
united-states tax-law debt
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
1
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:
A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.
The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".
Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.
Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?
Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?
Or is this story not reasonably possible?
united-states tax-law debt
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
Ages ago I read a nice story that sounds quite reasonable, but might be complete nonsense. Here it goes:
A private detective in the USA has lots of lawyers as customers. And they are notoriously bad at paying their bills. As a result, the detective owes money to the IRS. He talks to the IRS on the phone, and explains that he would love to pay his tax bill, but can't because so many of his customers are not paying their bills.
The tax officer says "I'll come to your office on Monday morning. Please have your 20 largest unpaid bills ready".
Monday morning, the tax officer arrives, takes the first unpaid bill to a lawyer, and calls: "Hi, this is John Smith. I'm informed that you owe private detective X an amount of $Y. Is that true?" Then the story explains (whether true or false I don't know) that in the USA it is quite possible to delay a payment legally, but it is illegal to falsely claim that you don't owe a debt. So when the lawyers office confirms, he says "I'm John Smith from the IRS, and I would ask you to pay the amount you owe to the IRS. Today. " And two hours later, the detectives tax bill is paid.
Question 1: Is it indeed illegal to lie about owing money?
Question 2: Would a company owing someone money that is past due payment be obliged to send the money to the IRS to pay the person's tax bill, assuming that the tax officer and the person owed state that this should happen?
Or is this story not reasonably possible?
united-states tax-law debt
united-states tax-law debt
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
asked 8 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
12.3k1329
12.3k1329
1
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago
1
1
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."
If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.
When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.
Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.
I find the story quite implausible.
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "617"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f41454%2fis-this-story-about-us-tax-office-reasonable%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."
If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.
When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.
Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.
I find the story quite implausible.
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
add a comment |
There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."
If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.
When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.
Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.
I find the story quite implausible.
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
add a comment |
There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."
If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.
When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.
Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.
I find the story quite implausible.
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
There is no general law making it illegal to lie about debts, or anything else. It is illegal to lie to a law enforcement officer in the course of an investigation. But it is in no way unlawful to decline to answer, unless a proper court order has been obtained, or other lawful means of compelling an answer. I would expect any law office to respond to such a question with something like "Am I/we being investigated? If so, send the appropriate notice and our lawyer will consider what we should tell you. If not, tell us what information you want, and we will consider and provide a written response in due course."
If a taxpayer has been found to be delinquent in paying taxes, in some cases a court order may be obtained seizing assets, including unpaid debts. But no IRS agent can make such a claim on the spot, and indeed for a client to make such a payment without such a court order (or the creditor's written consent) would itself be unlawful and would subject the lawyer to a suit by the PI.
When the lawyer pays s service provider, a 1099 must be filed with the IRS. If the PI is a corporation, a different form is used, but a record of payment is still required. As failure to timely file such a form is a violation of the tax code, an accusation of paying without filing would permit the lawyer to decline to answer under the Fifth amendment. If the lawyer did pay and did file a 1099 or other documentation, the IRS would know what had been payed, and would not need to confront the PI.
Also, as the comment by Hilmar points out, a PI would be likely to use the cash accounting method, and so would own no tax on work performed but unpaid (as yet). So unless the IRS agent thinks the PI was paid "off-the books" and is intentionally failing to report the payment, there would be no point to such a question. And if that were he case, the lawyer would be very likely to decline to answer.
I find the story quite implausible.
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
edited 2 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
answered 7 hours ago
David SiegelDavid Siegel
20.6k14080
20.6k14080
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
add a comment |
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
It's a shame. I liked the story :-) The point about cash accounting (it's only income and you only owe tax if/when the bill is paid) is something I completely missed.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
@gnasher729 Yes, but to me the point more telling is that an IRS agent just doesn't have the power to say "do this" and have people, esp lawyers, comply rather than say "where's your warrant / court order"
– David Siegel
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Law Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f41454%2fis-this-story-about-us-tax-office-reasonable%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
Seems like a bogus story. A private detective will likely use the "cash method" for accounting and so there is no tax due until he actually gets the money. And the likelihood of the IRS actually intervening is close to zero.
– Hilmar
7 hours ago