Why am I getting an electric shock from the water in my hot tub?Is it possible to detect from the power...

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Why am I getting an electric shock from the water in my hot tub?


Is it possible to detect from the power outlet if there would be current that needs grounding?Why is my 1997 Hot Springs Sovereign hot tub not heating?Electric Shock from concrete padMetal junction box shows 5V relative to ground when circuit powered. Why?Tester indicates hot/ground are reversed after lightning strikeTroubleshooting: Why does my multimeter not work when a non-contact volt detector shows current?Why do I still read voltage on outlet when I turn off breaker?Faulty wire on ring main tripping fuse identified, but what could cause it? (UK)Leveling the base for a hot tub?Hot tub water does not get warm













7















I have noticed that when I touch the water of my Hot Tub when I am grounded (barefoot standing outside of tub) I am getting a very small electric shock.
Using a multimeter it is reading 2Vac between the water and the ground outside.



I have an RCD on both my ring main and a dedicated RCD on the Hot Tub, none of which trip.



Now the odd thing is that even with the socket switched off (but still plugged in) it still reads 2Vac. If I unplug the socket it reads 0Vac.



How is it reading 2Vac with only neural and earth wires connected?










share|improve this question















migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago


This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.














  • 6





    If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

    – scorpdaddy
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

    – Solar Mike
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

    – Harper
    9 hours ago











  • US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

    – manassehkatz
    9 hours ago
















7















I have noticed that when I touch the water of my Hot Tub when I am grounded (barefoot standing outside of tub) I am getting a very small electric shock.
Using a multimeter it is reading 2Vac between the water and the ground outside.



I have an RCD on both my ring main and a dedicated RCD on the Hot Tub, none of which trip.



Now the odd thing is that even with the socket switched off (but still plugged in) it still reads 2Vac. If I unplug the socket it reads 0Vac.



How is it reading 2Vac with only neural and earth wires connected?










share|improve this question















migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago


This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.














  • 6





    If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

    – scorpdaddy
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

    – Solar Mike
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

    – Harper
    9 hours ago











  • US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

    – manassehkatz
    9 hours ago














7












7








7








I have noticed that when I touch the water of my Hot Tub when I am grounded (barefoot standing outside of tub) I am getting a very small electric shock.
Using a multimeter it is reading 2Vac between the water and the ground outside.



I have an RCD on both my ring main and a dedicated RCD on the Hot Tub, none of which trip.



Now the odd thing is that even with the socket switched off (but still plugged in) it still reads 2Vac. If I unplug the socket it reads 0Vac.



How is it reading 2Vac with only neural and earth wires connected?










share|improve this question
















I have noticed that when I touch the water of my Hot Tub when I am grounded (barefoot standing outside of tub) I am getting a very small electric shock.
Using a multimeter it is reading 2Vac between the water and the ground outside.



I have an RCD on both my ring main and a dedicated RCD on the Hot Tub, none of which trip.



Now the odd thing is that even with the socket switched off (but still plugged in) it still reads 2Vac. If I unplug the socket it reads 0Vac.



How is it reading 2Vac with only neural and earth wires connected?







electrical hot-tub






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 9 hours ago









isherwood

54.2k5 gold badges64 silver badges141 bronze badges




54.2k5 gold badges64 silver badges141 bronze badges










asked 10 hours ago









LeeLee

391 bronze badge




391 bronze badge




migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago


This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.









migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago


This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.










  • 6





    If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

    – scorpdaddy
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

    – Solar Mike
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

    – Harper
    9 hours ago











  • US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

    – manassehkatz
    9 hours ago














  • 6





    If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

    – scorpdaddy
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

    – Solar Mike
    9 hours ago






  • 2





    Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

    – Harper
    9 hours ago











  • US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

    – manassehkatz
    9 hours ago








6




6





If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

– scorpdaddy
10 hours ago





If you google "hot tub electrical shock deaths" there are lots of articles. You should stop trying to troubleshoot this and go hire a proper electrician.

– scorpdaddy
10 hours ago




1




1





Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

– Solar Mike
9 hours ago





Basically neutral is not zero... So, you need to get this checked, and sorted, quickly. Waiting for you to find it eventually may injure someone...

– Solar Mike
9 hours ago




2




2





Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

– Harper
9 hours ago





Look closely at the RCDs. Do they have a trip rating? Typical numbers are 6ma, 8ma or 30ma. Also, RCDs are not the be-all-end-all fixer of all defects electrical.

– Harper
9 hours ago













US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

– manassehkatz
9 hours ago





US GFCI normally have a TEST button. No idea if your RCD does. But if it does, does the TEST button work as expected?

– manassehkatz
9 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















6














DON'T get in that hot tub again!



The "very small" shock was due to high impedance between you and the current. Impedance is extremely luck-based. Someone getting out of the pool might splash water where it had not been before, now the impedance is much lower and that "small" shock puts you in a wheelchair.



Hot tub miswiring is so common it's legendary. RCDs do not protect you from all wiring errors.



Don't get in the hot tub again until you positively find the cause and remove it.



8ma vs 30ma protection



RCDs also do not protect you from shock, necessarily. In Europe, RCDs have been used for a long time, and for a different reason - protecting houses from fires, not protecting humans from shock. Also, since they use whole-house RCDs, they must use a higher (more permissive) threshold, otherwise small leaks from many appliances will "stack" to cause nuisance trips. So whole-house protection is typically 30ma threshold.



Whereas in the US, GFCI is specifically for human safety, and it is 6ma or 8ma. This is too sensitive for a whole house, so it is applied circuit by circuit on circuits where it is helpful. (near sinks).



Your whole-house RCD would need to be 30ma, which is not enough for life-safety protection. It's less likely to outright kill you, but it's plenty enough to stun you - and when you are in water, being stunned means drowning.



Your hot tub should indeed have its own RCD, at the 6-8ma sensitivity level. However if you walk into a store and buy any random RCD, it's quite possible you'll find yourself holding a 30ma one. Perhaps your hot tub installer did exactly that.



RCDs do fail



I.E. they stop properly detecting ground faults. That's why the device has a "TEST" button. Use it.



It may be miswired to bypass the RCD



In fact, this is likely if the hot tub installer hit a situation where the RCD tripped when he hooked it up correctly. The RCD would trip when hooked up correctly, if the hot tub had a ground fault. Typical installer move is to jury-rig it any method that will work, then get paid.



This can also happen with amateur installers. They typically refuse to learn how to do the job properly (because that takes time learning about subjects they just don't care about), and simply "try random combinations" until one works. Many will work and also kill you. This might be one of those.



If the hot tub has a ground fault, fix it - seriously



Sometimes RCDs trip because the downline device is connected correctly, but actually does have a ground fault. This tends to surprise the heck out of people, they are in full disbelief -- "MY appliance has a ground fault? This cannot be!" (even they know nothing about ground faults).



I've seen people replace RCDs twice simply because they cannot believe they actually have a ground fault. And of course they feel totally justified in bypassing safety protection altogether.



So don't be in denial about that. There is a real possibility that the hot tub has a ground fault. If so, fix it.



It might not even be the hot tub



There's an outside chance this shock is entirely unrelated to the hot tub. It's possible the dangerous voltage is being sourced from some other thing in your yard, and the hot tub is correctly providing grounding, thus completing the circuit. If so, the cure is a thorough search of your house's electrical system for any defects. And if neighbors are close, you may need to bring out someone to test for problems coming from them.



In any case, this is nothing to trifle with.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

    – Lee
    8 hours ago











  • @Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

    – Harper
    8 hours ago













  • They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

    – manassehkatz
    8 hours ago











  • So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

    – Lee
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

    – Lee
    7 hours ago














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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









6














DON'T get in that hot tub again!



The "very small" shock was due to high impedance between you and the current. Impedance is extremely luck-based. Someone getting out of the pool might splash water where it had not been before, now the impedance is much lower and that "small" shock puts you in a wheelchair.



Hot tub miswiring is so common it's legendary. RCDs do not protect you from all wiring errors.



Don't get in the hot tub again until you positively find the cause and remove it.



8ma vs 30ma protection



RCDs also do not protect you from shock, necessarily. In Europe, RCDs have been used for a long time, and for a different reason - protecting houses from fires, not protecting humans from shock. Also, since they use whole-house RCDs, they must use a higher (more permissive) threshold, otherwise small leaks from many appliances will "stack" to cause nuisance trips. So whole-house protection is typically 30ma threshold.



Whereas in the US, GFCI is specifically for human safety, and it is 6ma or 8ma. This is too sensitive for a whole house, so it is applied circuit by circuit on circuits where it is helpful. (near sinks).



Your whole-house RCD would need to be 30ma, which is not enough for life-safety protection. It's less likely to outright kill you, but it's plenty enough to stun you - and when you are in water, being stunned means drowning.



Your hot tub should indeed have its own RCD, at the 6-8ma sensitivity level. However if you walk into a store and buy any random RCD, it's quite possible you'll find yourself holding a 30ma one. Perhaps your hot tub installer did exactly that.



RCDs do fail



I.E. they stop properly detecting ground faults. That's why the device has a "TEST" button. Use it.



It may be miswired to bypass the RCD



In fact, this is likely if the hot tub installer hit a situation where the RCD tripped when he hooked it up correctly. The RCD would trip when hooked up correctly, if the hot tub had a ground fault. Typical installer move is to jury-rig it any method that will work, then get paid.



This can also happen with amateur installers. They typically refuse to learn how to do the job properly (because that takes time learning about subjects they just don't care about), and simply "try random combinations" until one works. Many will work and also kill you. This might be one of those.



If the hot tub has a ground fault, fix it - seriously



Sometimes RCDs trip because the downline device is connected correctly, but actually does have a ground fault. This tends to surprise the heck out of people, they are in full disbelief -- "MY appliance has a ground fault? This cannot be!" (even they know nothing about ground faults).



I've seen people replace RCDs twice simply because they cannot believe they actually have a ground fault. And of course they feel totally justified in bypassing safety protection altogether.



So don't be in denial about that. There is a real possibility that the hot tub has a ground fault. If so, fix it.



It might not even be the hot tub



There's an outside chance this shock is entirely unrelated to the hot tub. It's possible the dangerous voltage is being sourced from some other thing in your yard, and the hot tub is correctly providing grounding, thus completing the circuit. If so, the cure is a thorough search of your house's electrical system for any defects. And if neighbors are close, you may need to bring out someone to test for problems coming from them.



In any case, this is nothing to trifle with.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

    – Lee
    8 hours ago











  • @Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

    – Harper
    8 hours ago













  • They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

    – manassehkatz
    8 hours ago











  • So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

    – Lee
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

    – Lee
    7 hours ago
















6














DON'T get in that hot tub again!



The "very small" shock was due to high impedance between you and the current. Impedance is extremely luck-based. Someone getting out of the pool might splash water where it had not been before, now the impedance is much lower and that "small" shock puts you in a wheelchair.



Hot tub miswiring is so common it's legendary. RCDs do not protect you from all wiring errors.



Don't get in the hot tub again until you positively find the cause and remove it.



8ma vs 30ma protection



RCDs also do not protect you from shock, necessarily. In Europe, RCDs have been used for a long time, and for a different reason - protecting houses from fires, not protecting humans from shock. Also, since they use whole-house RCDs, they must use a higher (more permissive) threshold, otherwise small leaks from many appliances will "stack" to cause nuisance trips. So whole-house protection is typically 30ma threshold.



Whereas in the US, GFCI is specifically for human safety, and it is 6ma or 8ma. This is too sensitive for a whole house, so it is applied circuit by circuit on circuits where it is helpful. (near sinks).



Your whole-house RCD would need to be 30ma, which is not enough for life-safety protection. It's less likely to outright kill you, but it's plenty enough to stun you - and when you are in water, being stunned means drowning.



Your hot tub should indeed have its own RCD, at the 6-8ma sensitivity level. However if you walk into a store and buy any random RCD, it's quite possible you'll find yourself holding a 30ma one. Perhaps your hot tub installer did exactly that.



RCDs do fail



I.E. they stop properly detecting ground faults. That's why the device has a "TEST" button. Use it.



It may be miswired to bypass the RCD



In fact, this is likely if the hot tub installer hit a situation where the RCD tripped when he hooked it up correctly. The RCD would trip when hooked up correctly, if the hot tub had a ground fault. Typical installer move is to jury-rig it any method that will work, then get paid.



This can also happen with amateur installers. They typically refuse to learn how to do the job properly (because that takes time learning about subjects they just don't care about), and simply "try random combinations" until one works. Many will work and also kill you. This might be one of those.



If the hot tub has a ground fault, fix it - seriously



Sometimes RCDs trip because the downline device is connected correctly, but actually does have a ground fault. This tends to surprise the heck out of people, they are in full disbelief -- "MY appliance has a ground fault? This cannot be!" (even they know nothing about ground faults).



I've seen people replace RCDs twice simply because they cannot believe they actually have a ground fault. And of course they feel totally justified in bypassing safety protection altogether.



So don't be in denial about that. There is a real possibility that the hot tub has a ground fault. If so, fix it.



It might not even be the hot tub



There's an outside chance this shock is entirely unrelated to the hot tub. It's possible the dangerous voltage is being sourced from some other thing in your yard, and the hot tub is correctly providing grounding, thus completing the circuit. If so, the cure is a thorough search of your house's electrical system for any defects. And if neighbors are close, you may need to bring out someone to test for problems coming from them.



In any case, this is nothing to trifle with.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

    – Lee
    8 hours ago











  • @Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

    – Harper
    8 hours ago













  • They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

    – manassehkatz
    8 hours ago











  • So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

    – Lee
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

    – Lee
    7 hours ago














6












6








6







DON'T get in that hot tub again!



The "very small" shock was due to high impedance between you and the current. Impedance is extremely luck-based. Someone getting out of the pool might splash water where it had not been before, now the impedance is much lower and that "small" shock puts you in a wheelchair.



Hot tub miswiring is so common it's legendary. RCDs do not protect you from all wiring errors.



Don't get in the hot tub again until you positively find the cause and remove it.



8ma vs 30ma protection



RCDs also do not protect you from shock, necessarily. In Europe, RCDs have been used for a long time, and for a different reason - protecting houses from fires, not protecting humans from shock. Also, since they use whole-house RCDs, they must use a higher (more permissive) threshold, otherwise small leaks from many appliances will "stack" to cause nuisance trips. So whole-house protection is typically 30ma threshold.



Whereas in the US, GFCI is specifically for human safety, and it is 6ma or 8ma. This is too sensitive for a whole house, so it is applied circuit by circuit on circuits where it is helpful. (near sinks).



Your whole-house RCD would need to be 30ma, which is not enough for life-safety protection. It's less likely to outright kill you, but it's plenty enough to stun you - and when you are in water, being stunned means drowning.



Your hot tub should indeed have its own RCD, at the 6-8ma sensitivity level. However if you walk into a store and buy any random RCD, it's quite possible you'll find yourself holding a 30ma one. Perhaps your hot tub installer did exactly that.



RCDs do fail



I.E. they stop properly detecting ground faults. That's why the device has a "TEST" button. Use it.



It may be miswired to bypass the RCD



In fact, this is likely if the hot tub installer hit a situation where the RCD tripped when he hooked it up correctly. The RCD would trip when hooked up correctly, if the hot tub had a ground fault. Typical installer move is to jury-rig it any method that will work, then get paid.



This can also happen with amateur installers. They typically refuse to learn how to do the job properly (because that takes time learning about subjects they just don't care about), and simply "try random combinations" until one works. Many will work and also kill you. This might be one of those.



If the hot tub has a ground fault, fix it - seriously



Sometimes RCDs trip because the downline device is connected correctly, but actually does have a ground fault. This tends to surprise the heck out of people, they are in full disbelief -- "MY appliance has a ground fault? This cannot be!" (even they know nothing about ground faults).



I've seen people replace RCDs twice simply because they cannot believe they actually have a ground fault. And of course they feel totally justified in bypassing safety protection altogether.



So don't be in denial about that. There is a real possibility that the hot tub has a ground fault. If so, fix it.



It might not even be the hot tub



There's an outside chance this shock is entirely unrelated to the hot tub. It's possible the dangerous voltage is being sourced from some other thing in your yard, and the hot tub is correctly providing grounding, thus completing the circuit. If so, the cure is a thorough search of your house's electrical system for any defects. And if neighbors are close, you may need to bring out someone to test for problems coming from them.



In any case, this is nothing to trifle with.






share|improve this answer















DON'T get in that hot tub again!



The "very small" shock was due to high impedance between you and the current. Impedance is extremely luck-based. Someone getting out of the pool might splash water where it had not been before, now the impedance is much lower and that "small" shock puts you in a wheelchair.



Hot tub miswiring is so common it's legendary. RCDs do not protect you from all wiring errors.



Don't get in the hot tub again until you positively find the cause and remove it.



8ma vs 30ma protection



RCDs also do not protect you from shock, necessarily. In Europe, RCDs have been used for a long time, and for a different reason - protecting houses from fires, not protecting humans from shock. Also, since they use whole-house RCDs, they must use a higher (more permissive) threshold, otherwise small leaks from many appliances will "stack" to cause nuisance trips. So whole-house protection is typically 30ma threshold.



Whereas in the US, GFCI is specifically for human safety, and it is 6ma or 8ma. This is too sensitive for a whole house, so it is applied circuit by circuit on circuits where it is helpful. (near sinks).



Your whole-house RCD would need to be 30ma, which is not enough for life-safety protection. It's less likely to outright kill you, but it's plenty enough to stun you - and when you are in water, being stunned means drowning.



Your hot tub should indeed have its own RCD, at the 6-8ma sensitivity level. However if you walk into a store and buy any random RCD, it's quite possible you'll find yourself holding a 30ma one. Perhaps your hot tub installer did exactly that.



RCDs do fail



I.E. they stop properly detecting ground faults. That's why the device has a "TEST" button. Use it.



It may be miswired to bypass the RCD



In fact, this is likely if the hot tub installer hit a situation where the RCD tripped when he hooked it up correctly. The RCD would trip when hooked up correctly, if the hot tub had a ground fault. Typical installer move is to jury-rig it any method that will work, then get paid.



This can also happen with amateur installers. They typically refuse to learn how to do the job properly (because that takes time learning about subjects they just don't care about), and simply "try random combinations" until one works. Many will work and also kill you. This might be one of those.



If the hot tub has a ground fault, fix it - seriously



Sometimes RCDs trip because the downline device is connected correctly, but actually does have a ground fault. This tends to surprise the heck out of people, they are in full disbelief -- "MY appliance has a ground fault? This cannot be!" (even they know nothing about ground faults).



I've seen people replace RCDs twice simply because they cannot believe they actually have a ground fault. And of course they feel totally justified in bypassing safety protection altogether.



So don't be in denial about that. There is a real possibility that the hot tub has a ground fault. If so, fix it.



It might not even be the hot tub



There's an outside chance this shock is entirely unrelated to the hot tub. It's possible the dangerous voltage is being sourced from some other thing in your yard, and the hot tub is correctly providing grounding, thus completing the circuit. If so, the cure is a thorough search of your house's electrical system for any defects. And if neighbors are close, you may need to bring out someone to test for problems coming from them.



In any case, this is nothing to trifle with.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 8 hours ago

























answered 9 hours ago









HarperHarper

84.6k5 gold badges61 silver badges173 bronze badges




84.6k5 gold badges61 silver badges173 bronze badges













  • Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

    – Lee
    8 hours ago











  • @Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

    – Harper
    8 hours ago













  • They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

    – manassehkatz
    8 hours ago











  • So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

    – Lee
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

    – Lee
    7 hours ago



















  • Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

    – Lee
    8 hours ago











  • @Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

    – Harper
    8 hours ago













  • They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

    – manassehkatz
    8 hours ago











  • So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

    – Lee
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

    – Lee
    7 hours ago

















Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

– Lee
8 hours ago





Thank you for the reply. The Hot Tub is actually the inflatable type, the heater/pump unit has the RCD hard wired about 10cm from the plug, it's sensitivity is 10mA cut off. I contacted the manufacture who told me: "the pump includes a grounding system, which is double insulated and links all of the electrical parts of the pump directly to the grounding of the electrical system of the house (known as a class I electrical product). The spa therefore relies on the earthing arrangements that you have in the property (and the electrical socket you are using) are up to the required standard."

– Lee
8 hours ago













@Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

– Harper
8 hours ago







@Lee Oh dear. Then it's possible the shock has nothing to do with the hot tub, and you could sell the hot tub, and be standing in your backyard and get shocked.

– Harper
8 hours ago















They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

– manassehkatz
8 hours ago





They are, either through ignorance or lawyers, mixing up grounding and ground fault protection. Bottom line is that when water is involved (a) a little problem can become deadly and (b) double insulation only helps until a nick in the insulation let's water get to where it shouldn't. Listen to Harper.

– manassehkatz
8 hours ago













So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

– Lee
7 hours ago





So I am assuming there is some sort of earth fault in my house since I get a shock from the pool when I put the RCD on test and switched it off at the socket - so earth wire must be carrying the voltage? Is there any way I can test with a multimeter? I have now unplugged the hot tub and will get someone to check out my house wiring

– Lee
7 hours ago




2




2





if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

– Lee
7 hours ago





if I test the voltage between the Earth coming into my house (the supplier side of the meter outside) and ground (actually sticking the probe into the soil), it is reading 2Vac as well. Not sure that is the right way to test......

– Lee
7 hours ago


















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