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From Poisson's equation to Laplace's equation


Where is the flaw in deriving Gauss's law in its differential form?Relation between electric field and dipole momentIs it equivalent to derive Gauss's law from discrete and continuous source distributions?Regarding the proof of Gauss's lawDivergence of Electric Field: Moving Del Operator Inside IntegralInterpretation of the Poisson's equationAnalogies between electrostatics and steady state heat equation?Doubt about the relation $nablacdotmathbf{E}=rho/epsilon_0$How to verify generally that the formula for electric potential is a solution to Poisson's equation?Volume charge density equation - dimensions not tallying






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}







1












$begingroup$


I want to understand how exactly $$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho}{epsilon_0}$$ turns into $$ nabla^2 V = 0.$$



Of course it is by setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ but what does setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ mean?



$$ int_{S} vec E cdot d vec a = int_{V} nabla cdot vec E , d tau = frac {Q}{epsilon_0} = frac {1}{epsilon_0} int_{V} rho ,dtau$$



$rho$ is a function of $ vec r'$ which is a position vector to the source coordinates, and $nabla cdot vec E$ operates with respect to the general coordinates, we get the equation



$$ nabla cdot vec E = frac { rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0},$$



which gives us



$$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0}.$$



I don't know what it means to set $rho$ equal to $0$ because I'm picturing a point charge at the origin, or let's say some configuration of charges, and I want to calculate the divergence of $ vec E$ away from this configuration ('outside the configuration'), does that mean that I have to set $rho =0$? And then the divergence becomes $0$? But how does that make sense?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
    $endgroup$
    – khaled014z
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    yes, it does...
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    14 hours ago


















1












$begingroup$


I want to understand how exactly $$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho}{epsilon_0}$$ turns into $$ nabla^2 V = 0.$$



Of course it is by setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ but what does setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ mean?



$$ int_{S} vec E cdot d vec a = int_{V} nabla cdot vec E , d tau = frac {Q}{epsilon_0} = frac {1}{epsilon_0} int_{V} rho ,dtau$$



$rho$ is a function of $ vec r'$ which is a position vector to the source coordinates, and $nabla cdot vec E$ operates with respect to the general coordinates, we get the equation



$$ nabla cdot vec E = frac { rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0},$$



which gives us



$$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0}.$$



I don't know what it means to set $rho$ equal to $0$ because I'm picturing a point charge at the origin, or let's say some configuration of charges, and I want to calculate the divergence of $ vec E$ away from this configuration ('outside the configuration'), does that mean that I have to set $rho =0$? And then the divergence becomes $0$? But how does that make sense?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
    $endgroup$
    – khaled014z
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    yes, it does...
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    14 hours ago














1












1








1


1



$begingroup$


I want to understand how exactly $$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho}{epsilon_0}$$ turns into $$ nabla^2 V = 0.$$



Of course it is by setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ but what does setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ mean?



$$ int_{S} vec E cdot d vec a = int_{V} nabla cdot vec E , d tau = frac {Q}{epsilon_0} = frac {1}{epsilon_0} int_{V} rho ,dtau$$



$rho$ is a function of $ vec r'$ which is a position vector to the source coordinates, and $nabla cdot vec E$ operates with respect to the general coordinates, we get the equation



$$ nabla cdot vec E = frac { rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0},$$



which gives us



$$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0}.$$



I don't know what it means to set $rho$ equal to $0$ because I'm picturing a point charge at the origin, or let's say some configuration of charges, and I want to calculate the divergence of $ vec E$ away from this configuration ('outside the configuration'), does that mean that I have to set $rho =0$? And then the divergence becomes $0$? But how does that make sense?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I want to understand how exactly $$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho}{epsilon_0}$$ turns into $$ nabla^2 V = 0.$$



Of course it is by setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ but what does setting $ rho$ equal to $0$ mean?



$$ int_{S} vec E cdot d vec a = int_{V} nabla cdot vec E , d tau = frac {Q}{epsilon_0} = frac {1}{epsilon_0} int_{V} rho ,dtau$$



$rho$ is a function of $ vec r'$ which is a position vector to the source coordinates, and $nabla cdot vec E$ operates with respect to the general coordinates, we get the equation



$$ nabla cdot vec E = frac { rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0},$$



which gives us



$$ nabla^2 V = - frac{rho(vec r')}{epsilon_0}.$$



I don't know what it means to set $rho$ equal to $0$ because I'm picturing a point charge at the origin, or let's say some configuration of charges, and I want to calculate the divergence of $ vec E$ away from this configuration ('outside the configuration'), does that mean that I have to set $rho =0$? And then the divergence becomes $0$? But how does that make sense?







electrostatics charge potential gauss-law






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 13 hours ago









Emilio Pisanty

90.7k23 gold badges228 silver badges469 bronze badges




90.7k23 gold badges228 silver badges469 bronze badges










asked 15 hours ago









khaled014zkhaled014z

13811 bronze badges




13811 bronze badges















  • $begingroup$
    Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
    $endgroup$
    – khaled014z
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    yes, it does...
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    14 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
    $endgroup$
    – khaled014z
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    yes, it does...
    $endgroup$
    – thedude
    14 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
$endgroup$
– thedude
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Well, $rho$ might happen to be zero in some region, no?
$endgroup$
– thedude
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
$endgroup$
– khaled014z
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Yes, but does that mean that outside any charge configuration, the divergence is zero?
$endgroup$
– khaled014z
15 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
yes, it does...
$endgroup$
– thedude
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
yes, it does...
$endgroup$
– thedude
14 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3













$begingroup$

Generally, setting $rho$ to zero means setting it to zero everywhere in the region of interest, i.e. $rho(vec r) equiv 0$.



Typically, though, we only say that the governing equation is Laplace's equation, $nabla^2 V equiv 0$, if there really aren't any charges in the region, and the only sources for the electrostatic field come from the boundary conditions. Thus, you might have one or more conducting surfaces that are held at a constant potential (corresponding to Dirichlet boundary conditions); those do hold charge, but you don't care about the effect of those charges directly, as they're not held constant $-$ you only care about the constant-potential boundary condition.



In contrast, if you do have sources in some of the region of interest, then we normally say that the governing equation is Poisson's equation, even if those sources only cover a fraction of the region of interest. Thus, you might have a solid sphere of charge,
$$
rho(vec r) = begin{cases} rho_0 & |vec r|leq R \ 0 & |vec r|>R,end{cases}
$$

with vanishing charge density outside of a given radius, and we'd still say that you're dealing with a Poisson's-equation problem, even though for $|vec r|>R$ the equation reads $nabla^2 V equiv 0$. This is primarily because the methods of solution are different as soon as you have any sources inside your region of interest.



In the particular case of a point charge, for example, we typically classify the equation as a Poisson's-equation problem, with a charge density given by
$$
rho(vec r) = q, delta(vec r)
$$

in terms of a Dirac delta. (Why? because this is the only density that will give $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = q$ if $vec 0inOmega$ and $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = 0$ if $vec 0notinOmega$.) At all points of space other than the point where the point charge sits the electric-field divergence is zero, $nablacdotvec E = -nabla^2 V =0$, but the behaviour at the origin forces a nonzero solution (which nevertheless has a vanishing laplacian) at all those other points.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$























    2













    $begingroup$

    Following specification should help: In electrostatics, Laplace's equation holds at any point where the charge density is zero, i.e. $rho = 0$, even if $rho neq 0$ elsewhere. It informs us about how potential behaves locally at a point of consideration.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















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      2 Answers
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      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      active

      oldest

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      active

      oldest

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      3













      $begingroup$

      Generally, setting $rho$ to zero means setting it to zero everywhere in the region of interest, i.e. $rho(vec r) equiv 0$.



      Typically, though, we only say that the governing equation is Laplace's equation, $nabla^2 V equiv 0$, if there really aren't any charges in the region, and the only sources for the electrostatic field come from the boundary conditions. Thus, you might have one or more conducting surfaces that are held at a constant potential (corresponding to Dirichlet boundary conditions); those do hold charge, but you don't care about the effect of those charges directly, as they're not held constant $-$ you only care about the constant-potential boundary condition.



      In contrast, if you do have sources in some of the region of interest, then we normally say that the governing equation is Poisson's equation, even if those sources only cover a fraction of the region of interest. Thus, you might have a solid sphere of charge,
      $$
      rho(vec r) = begin{cases} rho_0 & |vec r|leq R \ 0 & |vec r|>R,end{cases}
      $$

      with vanishing charge density outside of a given radius, and we'd still say that you're dealing with a Poisson's-equation problem, even though for $|vec r|>R$ the equation reads $nabla^2 V equiv 0$. This is primarily because the methods of solution are different as soon as you have any sources inside your region of interest.



      In the particular case of a point charge, for example, we typically classify the equation as a Poisson's-equation problem, with a charge density given by
      $$
      rho(vec r) = q, delta(vec r)
      $$

      in terms of a Dirac delta. (Why? because this is the only density that will give $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = q$ if $vec 0inOmega$ and $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = 0$ if $vec 0notinOmega$.) At all points of space other than the point where the point charge sits the electric-field divergence is zero, $nablacdotvec E = -nabla^2 V =0$, but the behaviour at the origin forces a nonzero solution (which nevertheless has a vanishing laplacian) at all those other points.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$




















        3













        $begingroup$

        Generally, setting $rho$ to zero means setting it to zero everywhere in the region of interest, i.e. $rho(vec r) equiv 0$.



        Typically, though, we only say that the governing equation is Laplace's equation, $nabla^2 V equiv 0$, if there really aren't any charges in the region, and the only sources for the electrostatic field come from the boundary conditions. Thus, you might have one or more conducting surfaces that are held at a constant potential (corresponding to Dirichlet boundary conditions); those do hold charge, but you don't care about the effect of those charges directly, as they're not held constant $-$ you only care about the constant-potential boundary condition.



        In contrast, if you do have sources in some of the region of interest, then we normally say that the governing equation is Poisson's equation, even if those sources only cover a fraction of the region of interest. Thus, you might have a solid sphere of charge,
        $$
        rho(vec r) = begin{cases} rho_0 & |vec r|leq R \ 0 & |vec r|>R,end{cases}
        $$

        with vanishing charge density outside of a given radius, and we'd still say that you're dealing with a Poisson's-equation problem, even though for $|vec r|>R$ the equation reads $nabla^2 V equiv 0$. This is primarily because the methods of solution are different as soon as you have any sources inside your region of interest.



        In the particular case of a point charge, for example, we typically classify the equation as a Poisson's-equation problem, with a charge density given by
        $$
        rho(vec r) = q, delta(vec r)
        $$

        in terms of a Dirac delta. (Why? because this is the only density that will give $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = q$ if $vec 0inOmega$ and $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = 0$ if $vec 0notinOmega$.) At all points of space other than the point where the point charge sits the electric-field divergence is zero, $nablacdotvec E = -nabla^2 V =0$, but the behaviour at the origin forces a nonzero solution (which nevertheless has a vanishing laplacian) at all those other points.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          3














          3










          3







          $begingroup$

          Generally, setting $rho$ to zero means setting it to zero everywhere in the region of interest, i.e. $rho(vec r) equiv 0$.



          Typically, though, we only say that the governing equation is Laplace's equation, $nabla^2 V equiv 0$, if there really aren't any charges in the region, and the only sources for the electrostatic field come from the boundary conditions. Thus, you might have one or more conducting surfaces that are held at a constant potential (corresponding to Dirichlet boundary conditions); those do hold charge, but you don't care about the effect of those charges directly, as they're not held constant $-$ you only care about the constant-potential boundary condition.



          In contrast, if you do have sources in some of the region of interest, then we normally say that the governing equation is Poisson's equation, even if those sources only cover a fraction of the region of interest. Thus, you might have a solid sphere of charge,
          $$
          rho(vec r) = begin{cases} rho_0 & |vec r|leq R \ 0 & |vec r|>R,end{cases}
          $$

          with vanishing charge density outside of a given radius, and we'd still say that you're dealing with a Poisson's-equation problem, even though for $|vec r|>R$ the equation reads $nabla^2 V equiv 0$. This is primarily because the methods of solution are different as soon as you have any sources inside your region of interest.



          In the particular case of a point charge, for example, we typically classify the equation as a Poisson's-equation problem, with a charge density given by
          $$
          rho(vec r) = q, delta(vec r)
          $$

          in terms of a Dirac delta. (Why? because this is the only density that will give $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = q$ if $vec 0inOmega$ and $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = 0$ if $vec 0notinOmega$.) At all points of space other than the point where the point charge sits the electric-field divergence is zero, $nablacdotvec E = -nabla^2 V =0$, but the behaviour at the origin forces a nonzero solution (which nevertheless has a vanishing laplacian) at all those other points.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Generally, setting $rho$ to zero means setting it to zero everywhere in the region of interest, i.e. $rho(vec r) equiv 0$.



          Typically, though, we only say that the governing equation is Laplace's equation, $nabla^2 V equiv 0$, if there really aren't any charges in the region, and the only sources for the electrostatic field come from the boundary conditions. Thus, you might have one or more conducting surfaces that are held at a constant potential (corresponding to Dirichlet boundary conditions); those do hold charge, but you don't care about the effect of those charges directly, as they're not held constant $-$ you only care about the constant-potential boundary condition.



          In contrast, if you do have sources in some of the region of interest, then we normally say that the governing equation is Poisson's equation, even if those sources only cover a fraction of the region of interest. Thus, you might have a solid sphere of charge,
          $$
          rho(vec r) = begin{cases} rho_0 & |vec r|leq R \ 0 & |vec r|>R,end{cases}
          $$

          with vanishing charge density outside of a given radius, and we'd still say that you're dealing with a Poisson's-equation problem, even though for $|vec r|>R$ the equation reads $nabla^2 V equiv 0$. This is primarily because the methods of solution are different as soon as you have any sources inside your region of interest.



          In the particular case of a point charge, for example, we typically classify the equation as a Poisson's-equation problem, with a charge density given by
          $$
          rho(vec r) = q, delta(vec r)
          $$

          in terms of a Dirac delta. (Why? because this is the only density that will give $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = q$ if $vec 0inOmega$ and $iiint_Omega rho(vec r)mathrm d^3vec r = 0$ if $vec 0notinOmega$.) At all points of space other than the point where the point charge sits the electric-field divergence is zero, $nablacdotvec E = -nabla^2 V =0$, but the behaviour at the origin forces a nonzero solution (which nevertheless has a vanishing laplacian) at all those other points.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 13 hours ago









          Emilio PisantyEmilio Pisanty

          90.7k23 gold badges228 silver badges469 bronze badges




          90.7k23 gold badges228 silver badges469 bronze badges




























              2













              $begingroup$

              Following specification should help: In electrostatics, Laplace's equation holds at any point where the charge density is zero, i.e. $rho = 0$, even if $rho neq 0$ elsewhere. It informs us about how potential behaves locally at a point of consideration.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$




















                2













                $begingroup$

                Following specification should help: In electrostatics, Laplace's equation holds at any point where the charge density is zero, i.e. $rho = 0$, even if $rho neq 0$ elsewhere. It informs us about how potential behaves locally at a point of consideration.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  2














                  2










                  2







                  $begingroup$

                  Following specification should help: In electrostatics, Laplace's equation holds at any point where the charge density is zero, i.e. $rho = 0$, even if $rho neq 0$ elsewhere. It informs us about how potential behaves locally at a point of consideration.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Following specification should help: In electrostatics, Laplace's equation holds at any point where the charge density is zero, i.e. $rho = 0$, even if $rho neq 0$ elsewhere. It informs us about how potential behaves locally at a point of consideration.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 15 hours ago









                  Gulce KardesGulce Kardes

                  1664 bronze badges




                  1664 bronze badges

































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