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On the expression “ sun-down”
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She took a factory job working from sun-down to sun-up. (Source : Drifting )
I think sun-down expression seems to have been made from "the sun is down", but what I want to know is what is the rule that I can make such an expression.
For example, if I want to express the time when the moon is up, can I say "moon-up time" ? and what is the reason to add "-" ?
Do we have to add the symbol when an expression does not follow grammar so as to prevent readers from misunderstanding?
If you make some examples similar to the expression, it must be a great help for me!
grammar
add a comment |
She took a factory job working from sun-down to sun-up. (Source : Drifting )
I think sun-down expression seems to have been made from "the sun is down", but what I want to know is what is the rule that I can make such an expression.
For example, if I want to express the time when the moon is up, can I say "moon-up time" ? and what is the reason to add "-" ?
Do we have to add the symbol when an expression does not follow grammar so as to prevent readers from misunderstanding?
If you make some examples similar to the expression, it must be a great help for me!
grammar
add a comment |
She took a factory job working from sun-down to sun-up. (Source : Drifting )
I think sun-down expression seems to have been made from "the sun is down", but what I want to know is what is the rule that I can make such an expression.
For example, if I want to express the time when the moon is up, can I say "moon-up time" ? and what is the reason to add "-" ?
Do we have to add the symbol when an expression does not follow grammar so as to prevent readers from misunderstanding?
If you make some examples similar to the expression, it must be a great help for me!
grammar
She took a factory job working from sun-down to sun-up. (Source : Drifting )
I think sun-down expression seems to have been made from "the sun is down", but what I want to know is what is the rule that I can make such an expression.
For example, if I want to express the time when the moon is up, can I say "moon-up time" ? and what is the reason to add "-" ?
Do we have to add the symbol when an expression does not follow grammar so as to prevent readers from misunderstanding?
If you make some examples similar to the expression, it must be a great help for me!
grammar
grammar
edited 9 hours ago
Floret
asked 9 hours ago
FloretFloret
1,2001 gold badge12 silver badges30 bronze badges
1,2001 gold badge12 silver badges30 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
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active
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Meriam-Webster gives actual definitions for both of those words.
Sundown:
: SUNSET sense 2
Sunup:
: SUNRISE
In short, both of these are fine:
- She took a factory job working from sundown to sunup.
- She took a factory job working from sunset to sunrise.
Merriam-Webster also defines similar words as they relate to the moon.
Moonrise:
1 : the rising of the moon above the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's rising
Moonset
1 : the descent of the moon below the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's setting
So, you could also say:
- She took a factory job working from moonrise to moonset.
(This would not be entirely idiomatic, but the syntax and grammar is fine.)
Last, you could express the same thing in the most idiomatic way:
- She took a factory job working from dusk to dawn.
Asking about conventions of punctuation and hyphenation is too broad of a question to answer in this context. Although grammar is related to style, it's not the same thing. When it comes to making things up so as to describe them in ways that haven't been defined yet, it's a matter of personal opinion, based on whatever conventions you follow that would seem to make the most sense to people in general.
This is why there are such things as style guides. But, in this case, I was able to address the specific example sentences by referring to a dictionary.
(And note that the difference between, for instance, sun down, sun-down, and sundown is just a matter of what dictionary you use and what style you follow.)
Last, the etymology of a word or phrase can often only be answered on a case-by-case basis, and, many times, it's simply a matter of speculation why things came to be the way they ended up.
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think this is no different in English than in your own native language. You can make up almost anything you like, but you have to consider the following:
- Has it been used before, and if so, does it already has a defined meaning?
- Does it accurately convey the meaning you intend?
- Will it sound clever or will it sound awkward?
- Is there another expression that already exists that sounds better?
In this case "moon-up" makes sense, but is unnecessary since we already have the elegant expression moonrise. There's no point in making up a new phrase that doesn't sound as good as the existing phrase.
As for what sounds clever vs. awkward in English, well ... that's just something you have to acquire with experience, plus some degree of skill. As with any language, there are many native English speakers who have no sense of how to be clever -- or, all too often, think themselves clever when they are nothing of the kind.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Meriam-Webster gives actual definitions for both of those words.
Sundown:
: SUNSET sense 2
Sunup:
: SUNRISE
In short, both of these are fine:
- She took a factory job working from sundown to sunup.
- She took a factory job working from sunset to sunrise.
Merriam-Webster also defines similar words as they relate to the moon.
Moonrise:
1 : the rising of the moon above the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's rising
Moonset
1 : the descent of the moon below the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's setting
So, you could also say:
- She took a factory job working from moonrise to moonset.
(This would not be entirely idiomatic, but the syntax and grammar is fine.)
Last, you could express the same thing in the most idiomatic way:
- She took a factory job working from dusk to dawn.
Asking about conventions of punctuation and hyphenation is too broad of a question to answer in this context. Although grammar is related to style, it's not the same thing. When it comes to making things up so as to describe them in ways that haven't been defined yet, it's a matter of personal opinion, based on whatever conventions you follow that would seem to make the most sense to people in general.
This is why there are such things as style guides. But, in this case, I was able to address the specific example sentences by referring to a dictionary.
(And note that the difference between, for instance, sun down, sun-down, and sundown is just a matter of what dictionary you use and what style you follow.)
Last, the etymology of a word or phrase can often only be answered on a case-by-case basis, and, many times, it's simply a matter of speculation why things came to be the way they ended up.
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Meriam-Webster gives actual definitions for both of those words.
Sundown:
: SUNSET sense 2
Sunup:
: SUNRISE
In short, both of these are fine:
- She took a factory job working from sundown to sunup.
- She took a factory job working from sunset to sunrise.
Merriam-Webster also defines similar words as they relate to the moon.
Moonrise:
1 : the rising of the moon above the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's rising
Moonset
1 : the descent of the moon below the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's setting
So, you could also say:
- She took a factory job working from moonrise to moonset.
(This would not be entirely idiomatic, but the syntax and grammar is fine.)
Last, you could express the same thing in the most idiomatic way:
- She took a factory job working from dusk to dawn.
Asking about conventions of punctuation and hyphenation is too broad of a question to answer in this context. Although grammar is related to style, it's not the same thing. When it comes to making things up so as to describe them in ways that haven't been defined yet, it's a matter of personal opinion, based on whatever conventions you follow that would seem to make the most sense to people in general.
This is why there are such things as style guides. But, in this case, I was able to address the specific example sentences by referring to a dictionary.
(And note that the difference between, for instance, sun down, sun-down, and sundown is just a matter of what dictionary you use and what style you follow.)
Last, the etymology of a word or phrase can often only be answered on a case-by-case basis, and, many times, it's simply a matter of speculation why things came to be the way they ended up.
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Meriam-Webster gives actual definitions for both of those words.
Sundown:
: SUNSET sense 2
Sunup:
: SUNRISE
In short, both of these are fine:
- She took a factory job working from sundown to sunup.
- She took a factory job working from sunset to sunrise.
Merriam-Webster also defines similar words as they relate to the moon.
Moonrise:
1 : the rising of the moon above the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's rising
Moonset
1 : the descent of the moon below the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's setting
So, you could also say:
- She took a factory job working from moonrise to moonset.
(This would not be entirely idiomatic, but the syntax and grammar is fine.)
Last, you could express the same thing in the most idiomatic way:
- She took a factory job working from dusk to dawn.
Asking about conventions of punctuation and hyphenation is too broad of a question to answer in this context. Although grammar is related to style, it's not the same thing. When it comes to making things up so as to describe them in ways that haven't been defined yet, it's a matter of personal opinion, based on whatever conventions you follow that would seem to make the most sense to people in general.
This is why there are such things as style guides. But, in this case, I was able to address the specific example sentences by referring to a dictionary.
(And note that the difference between, for instance, sun down, sun-down, and sundown is just a matter of what dictionary you use and what style you follow.)
Last, the etymology of a word or phrase can often only be answered on a case-by-case basis, and, many times, it's simply a matter of speculation why things came to be the way they ended up.
Meriam-Webster gives actual definitions for both of those words.
Sundown:
: SUNSET sense 2
Sunup:
: SUNRISE
In short, both of these are fine:
- She took a factory job working from sundown to sunup.
- She took a factory job working from sunset to sunrise.
Merriam-Webster also defines similar words as they relate to the moon.
Moonrise:
1 : the rising of the moon above the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's rising
Moonset
1 : the descent of the moon below the horizon
2 : the time of the moon's setting
So, you could also say:
- She took a factory job working from moonrise to moonset.
(This would not be entirely idiomatic, but the syntax and grammar is fine.)
Last, you could express the same thing in the most idiomatic way:
- She took a factory job working from dusk to dawn.
Asking about conventions of punctuation and hyphenation is too broad of a question to answer in this context. Although grammar is related to style, it's not the same thing. When it comes to making things up so as to describe them in ways that haven't been defined yet, it's a matter of personal opinion, based on whatever conventions you follow that would seem to make the most sense to people in general.
This is why there are such things as style guides. But, in this case, I was able to address the specific example sentences by referring to a dictionary.
(And note that the difference between, for instance, sun down, sun-down, and sundown is just a matter of what dictionary you use and what style you follow.)
Last, the etymology of a word or phrase can often only be answered on a case-by-case basis, and, many times, it's simply a matter of speculation why things came to be the way they ended up.
answered 8 hours ago
Jason BassfordJason Bassford
24.9k2 gold badges33 silver badges53 bronze badges
24.9k2 gold badges33 silver badges53 bronze badges
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
add a comment |
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
the moons rising and setting is not as long as the sun's rising and setting. Just saying....
– Lambie
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
@Lambie I totally agree, and I would never claim that they have the same meaning. ;) Although you can say sundown to sunup and moonrise to moonset, and they would both be grammatical, only one of them would likely describe the particular situation of the person's work hours in the example sentence. (Perhaps figuratively they could be thought of similarly.)
– Jason Bassford
8 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
You have only half answered the question
– Brad
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think this is no different in English than in your own native language. You can make up almost anything you like, but you have to consider the following:
- Has it been used before, and if so, does it already has a defined meaning?
- Does it accurately convey the meaning you intend?
- Will it sound clever or will it sound awkward?
- Is there another expression that already exists that sounds better?
In this case "moon-up" makes sense, but is unnecessary since we already have the elegant expression moonrise. There's no point in making up a new phrase that doesn't sound as good as the existing phrase.
As for what sounds clever vs. awkward in English, well ... that's just something you have to acquire with experience, plus some degree of skill. As with any language, there are many native English speakers who have no sense of how to be clever -- or, all too often, think themselves clever when they are nothing of the kind.
add a comment |
I think this is no different in English than in your own native language. You can make up almost anything you like, but you have to consider the following:
- Has it been used before, and if so, does it already has a defined meaning?
- Does it accurately convey the meaning you intend?
- Will it sound clever or will it sound awkward?
- Is there another expression that already exists that sounds better?
In this case "moon-up" makes sense, but is unnecessary since we already have the elegant expression moonrise. There's no point in making up a new phrase that doesn't sound as good as the existing phrase.
As for what sounds clever vs. awkward in English, well ... that's just something you have to acquire with experience, plus some degree of skill. As with any language, there are many native English speakers who have no sense of how to be clever -- or, all too often, think themselves clever when they are nothing of the kind.
add a comment |
I think this is no different in English than in your own native language. You can make up almost anything you like, but you have to consider the following:
- Has it been used before, and if so, does it already has a defined meaning?
- Does it accurately convey the meaning you intend?
- Will it sound clever or will it sound awkward?
- Is there another expression that already exists that sounds better?
In this case "moon-up" makes sense, but is unnecessary since we already have the elegant expression moonrise. There's no point in making up a new phrase that doesn't sound as good as the existing phrase.
As for what sounds clever vs. awkward in English, well ... that's just something you have to acquire with experience, plus some degree of skill. As with any language, there are many native English speakers who have no sense of how to be clever -- or, all too often, think themselves clever when they are nothing of the kind.
I think this is no different in English than in your own native language. You can make up almost anything you like, but you have to consider the following:
- Has it been used before, and if so, does it already has a defined meaning?
- Does it accurately convey the meaning you intend?
- Will it sound clever or will it sound awkward?
- Is there another expression that already exists that sounds better?
In this case "moon-up" makes sense, but is unnecessary since we already have the elegant expression moonrise. There's no point in making up a new phrase that doesn't sound as good as the existing phrase.
As for what sounds clever vs. awkward in English, well ... that's just something you have to acquire with experience, plus some degree of skill. As with any language, there are many native English speakers who have no sense of how to be clever -- or, all too often, think themselves clever when they are nothing of the kind.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
AndrewAndrew
81.6k6 gold badges87 silver badges174 bronze badges
81.6k6 gold badges87 silver badges174 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
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