Would this be a dangerous impeller to use for a drone?Why don't helicopters prefer shorter rotors with more...
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Would this be a dangerous impeller to use for a drone?
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$begingroup$
I am considering using a 3D printer to make unconventional impellers for a custom-made drone that I am planning to build. I am concerned that these plastic impellers may explode if their motors' RPMs get too high.
Please see the drawing below.
This drawing is showing two views of an enclosed centrifugal blower impeller with forward curved blades and the bottom plate of the impeller has holes in it. I am thinking that the high static air pressure that will be created within the impeller will generate a good amount of lift for the drone.
This design was inspired after I watched a Youtube video about a drone that uses cross-flow fans for lift:
My concern is that if the motor's RPM gets too high, the static air pressure inside the enclosed impeller will get too high and the impeller will explode, sending plastic shrapnel in all directions.
Because of this explosion risk, would it be advisable that I not use this potentially dangerous impeller?
EDIT
I just want to point out that the blades will be embedded within the enclosed impeller and that the whole impeller is rotated by a motor. The blades will not be part of a separate squirrel cage that will spin within a stationary enclosure that has holes in the bottom of it.
aircraft-design lift unmanned-aerial-vehicle aircraft-physics
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am considering using a 3D printer to make unconventional impellers for a custom-made drone that I am planning to build. I am concerned that these plastic impellers may explode if their motors' RPMs get too high.
Please see the drawing below.
This drawing is showing two views of an enclosed centrifugal blower impeller with forward curved blades and the bottom plate of the impeller has holes in it. I am thinking that the high static air pressure that will be created within the impeller will generate a good amount of lift for the drone.
This design was inspired after I watched a Youtube video about a drone that uses cross-flow fans for lift:
My concern is that if the motor's RPM gets too high, the static air pressure inside the enclosed impeller will get too high and the impeller will explode, sending plastic shrapnel in all directions.
Because of this explosion risk, would it be advisable that I not use this potentially dangerous impeller?
EDIT
I just want to point out that the blades will be embedded within the enclosed impeller and that the whole impeller is rotated by a motor. The blades will not be part of a separate squirrel cage that will spin within a stationary enclosure that has holes in the bottom of it.
aircraft-design lift unmanned-aerial-vehicle aircraft-physics
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am considering using a 3D printer to make unconventional impellers for a custom-made drone that I am planning to build. I am concerned that these plastic impellers may explode if their motors' RPMs get too high.
Please see the drawing below.
This drawing is showing two views of an enclosed centrifugal blower impeller with forward curved blades and the bottom plate of the impeller has holes in it. I am thinking that the high static air pressure that will be created within the impeller will generate a good amount of lift for the drone.
This design was inspired after I watched a Youtube video about a drone that uses cross-flow fans for lift:
My concern is that if the motor's RPM gets too high, the static air pressure inside the enclosed impeller will get too high and the impeller will explode, sending plastic shrapnel in all directions.
Because of this explosion risk, would it be advisable that I not use this potentially dangerous impeller?
EDIT
I just want to point out that the blades will be embedded within the enclosed impeller and that the whole impeller is rotated by a motor. The blades will not be part of a separate squirrel cage that will spin within a stationary enclosure that has holes in the bottom of it.
aircraft-design lift unmanned-aerial-vehicle aircraft-physics
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
$endgroup$
I am considering using a 3D printer to make unconventional impellers for a custom-made drone that I am planning to build. I am concerned that these plastic impellers may explode if their motors' RPMs get too high.
Please see the drawing below.
This drawing is showing two views of an enclosed centrifugal blower impeller with forward curved blades and the bottom plate of the impeller has holes in it. I am thinking that the high static air pressure that will be created within the impeller will generate a good amount of lift for the drone.
This design was inspired after I watched a Youtube video about a drone that uses cross-flow fans for lift:
My concern is that if the motor's RPM gets too high, the static air pressure inside the enclosed impeller will get too high and the impeller will explode, sending plastic shrapnel in all directions.
Because of this explosion risk, would it be advisable that I not use this potentially dangerous impeller?
EDIT
I just want to point out that the blades will be embedded within the enclosed impeller and that the whole impeller is rotated by a motor. The blades will not be part of a separate squirrel cage that will spin within a stationary enclosure that has holes in the bottom of it.
aircraft-design lift unmanned-aerial-vehicle aircraft-physics
aircraft-design lift unmanned-aerial-vehicle aircraft-physics
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
edited 1 hour ago
HRIATEXP
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
asked 6 hours ago
HRIATEXPHRIATEXP
1867
1867
1
$begingroup$
Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I know those things as squirrel cage blowers. As the video says, they are a good choice if you want to move a moderate amount of air without exposing rotating blades.
Impeller, by the way, was initially the word for a sort of airscrew that is moved by the flow. The small thingy in the nose of the Me-163 rocket interceptor was an impeller and needed for driving the plane's electric generator. Unfortunately, this word has recently been abused to mean shrouded propellers.
The proper name for those blowers is "centrifugal fan", and I will continue to use this word for the remainder of this answer.
As @pericynthion says in the comment, air pressure is less of a concern than centrifugal loads. Basically, the blades spin air around and hurl it to the inner housing of the blower, increasing pressure when the kinetic energy of the swirling air is converted to pressure as the air slows down. If we assume that air comes to a total standstill at the housing (which it doesn't, otherwise the blower would choke), the maximum attainable pressure is determined by the radius of the cage $r$ (in meters) and the rotational speed $omega$ (in rad/sec) of the blades.
$$∆p = rhocdot rcdotfrac{omega^2}{2}$$
For a 20 cm blower spinning at 3000 RPM this would be 5.9 bar. The centrifugal acceleration $a$ on the blade would be
$$a = rcdotomega^2$$
which produces 1000 g with the same parameters.
To give you an idea about the efficiency: It is generally desirable to accelerate a large volume of air a bit rather than to accelerate a small amount of air by a lot. Therefore, helicopters use the largest practical rotor diameter, so they can capture as much air as possible for lift creation. Centrifugal fans cannot enjoy the same luxury and can only use the air which enters them from the side. As you can see from the two formulas above, your ideal centrifugal fan runs at a low speed but has a large diameter for the best ratio of pressure over centrifugal loads.
If you build them without regards to the loads, yes, those centrifugal fans can indeed be dangerous.
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I know those things as squirrel cage blowers. As the video says, they are a good choice if you want to move a moderate amount of air without exposing rotating blades.
Impeller, by the way, was initially the word for a sort of airscrew that is moved by the flow. The small thingy in the nose of the Me-163 rocket interceptor was an impeller and needed for driving the plane's electric generator. Unfortunately, this word has recently been abused to mean shrouded propellers.
The proper name for those blowers is "centrifugal fan", and I will continue to use this word for the remainder of this answer.
As @pericynthion says in the comment, air pressure is less of a concern than centrifugal loads. Basically, the blades spin air around and hurl it to the inner housing of the blower, increasing pressure when the kinetic energy of the swirling air is converted to pressure as the air slows down. If we assume that air comes to a total standstill at the housing (which it doesn't, otherwise the blower would choke), the maximum attainable pressure is determined by the radius of the cage $r$ (in meters) and the rotational speed $omega$ (in rad/sec) of the blades.
$$∆p = rhocdot rcdotfrac{omega^2}{2}$$
For a 20 cm blower spinning at 3000 RPM this would be 5.9 bar. The centrifugal acceleration $a$ on the blade would be
$$a = rcdotomega^2$$
which produces 1000 g with the same parameters.
To give you an idea about the efficiency: It is generally desirable to accelerate a large volume of air a bit rather than to accelerate a small amount of air by a lot. Therefore, helicopters use the largest practical rotor diameter, so they can capture as much air as possible for lift creation. Centrifugal fans cannot enjoy the same luxury and can only use the air which enters them from the side. As you can see from the two formulas above, your ideal centrifugal fan runs at a low speed but has a large diameter for the best ratio of pressure over centrifugal loads.
If you build them without regards to the loads, yes, those centrifugal fans can indeed be dangerous.
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I know those things as squirrel cage blowers. As the video says, they are a good choice if you want to move a moderate amount of air without exposing rotating blades.
Impeller, by the way, was initially the word for a sort of airscrew that is moved by the flow. The small thingy in the nose of the Me-163 rocket interceptor was an impeller and needed for driving the plane's electric generator. Unfortunately, this word has recently been abused to mean shrouded propellers.
The proper name for those blowers is "centrifugal fan", and I will continue to use this word for the remainder of this answer.
As @pericynthion says in the comment, air pressure is less of a concern than centrifugal loads. Basically, the blades spin air around and hurl it to the inner housing of the blower, increasing pressure when the kinetic energy of the swirling air is converted to pressure as the air slows down. If we assume that air comes to a total standstill at the housing (which it doesn't, otherwise the blower would choke), the maximum attainable pressure is determined by the radius of the cage $r$ (in meters) and the rotational speed $omega$ (in rad/sec) of the blades.
$$∆p = rhocdot rcdotfrac{omega^2}{2}$$
For a 20 cm blower spinning at 3000 RPM this would be 5.9 bar. The centrifugal acceleration $a$ on the blade would be
$$a = rcdotomega^2$$
which produces 1000 g with the same parameters.
To give you an idea about the efficiency: It is generally desirable to accelerate a large volume of air a bit rather than to accelerate a small amount of air by a lot. Therefore, helicopters use the largest practical rotor diameter, so they can capture as much air as possible for lift creation. Centrifugal fans cannot enjoy the same luxury and can only use the air which enters them from the side. As you can see from the two formulas above, your ideal centrifugal fan runs at a low speed but has a large diameter for the best ratio of pressure over centrifugal loads.
If you build them without regards to the loads, yes, those centrifugal fans can indeed be dangerous.
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I know those things as squirrel cage blowers. As the video says, they are a good choice if you want to move a moderate amount of air without exposing rotating blades.
Impeller, by the way, was initially the word for a sort of airscrew that is moved by the flow. The small thingy in the nose of the Me-163 rocket interceptor was an impeller and needed for driving the plane's electric generator. Unfortunately, this word has recently been abused to mean shrouded propellers.
The proper name for those blowers is "centrifugal fan", and I will continue to use this word for the remainder of this answer.
As @pericynthion says in the comment, air pressure is less of a concern than centrifugal loads. Basically, the blades spin air around and hurl it to the inner housing of the blower, increasing pressure when the kinetic energy of the swirling air is converted to pressure as the air slows down. If we assume that air comes to a total standstill at the housing (which it doesn't, otherwise the blower would choke), the maximum attainable pressure is determined by the radius of the cage $r$ (in meters) and the rotational speed $omega$ (in rad/sec) of the blades.
$$∆p = rhocdot rcdotfrac{omega^2}{2}$$
For a 20 cm blower spinning at 3000 RPM this would be 5.9 bar. The centrifugal acceleration $a$ on the blade would be
$$a = rcdotomega^2$$
which produces 1000 g with the same parameters.
To give you an idea about the efficiency: It is generally desirable to accelerate a large volume of air a bit rather than to accelerate a small amount of air by a lot. Therefore, helicopters use the largest practical rotor diameter, so they can capture as much air as possible for lift creation. Centrifugal fans cannot enjoy the same luxury and can only use the air which enters them from the side. As you can see from the two formulas above, your ideal centrifugal fan runs at a low speed but has a large diameter for the best ratio of pressure over centrifugal loads.
If you build them without regards to the loads, yes, those centrifugal fans can indeed be dangerous.
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
$endgroup$
I know those things as squirrel cage blowers. As the video says, they are a good choice if you want to move a moderate amount of air without exposing rotating blades.
Impeller, by the way, was initially the word for a sort of airscrew that is moved by the flow. The small thingy in the nose of the Me-163 rocket interceptor was an impeller and needed for driving the plane's electric generator. Unfortunately, this word has recently been abused to mean shrouded propellers.
The proper name for those blowers is "centrifugal fan", and I will continue to use this word for the remainder of this answer.
As @pericynthion says in the comment, air pressure is less of a concern than centrifugal loads. Basically, the blades spin air around and hurl it to the inner housing of the blower, increasing pressure when the kinetic energy of the swirling air is converted to pressure as the air slows down. If we assume that air comes to a total standstill at the housing (which it doesn't, otherwise the blower would choke), the maximum attainable pressure is determined by the radius of the cage $r$ (in meters) and the rotational speed $omega$ (in rad/sec) of the blades.
$$∆p = rhocdot rcdotfrac{omega^2}{2}$$
For a 20 cm blower spinning at 3000 RPM this would be 5.9 bar. The centrifugal acceleration $a$ on the blade would be
$$a = rcdotomega^2$$
which produces 1000 g with the same parameters.
To give you an idea about the efficiency: It is generally desirable to accelerate a large volume of air a bit rather than to accelerate a small amount of air by a lot. Therefore, helicopters use the largest practical rotor diameter, so they can capture as much air as possible for lift creation. Centrifugal fans cannot enjoy the same luxury and can only use the air which enters them from the side. As you can see from the two formulas above, your ideal centrifugal fan runs at a low speed but has a large diameter for the best ratio of pressure over centrifugal loads.
If you build them without regards to the loads, yes, those centrifugal fans can indeed be dangerous.
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
edited 4 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
answered 4 hours ago
Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf
163k12417664
163k12417664
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
@ Peter Kampf, my thinking is that a very high static air pressure (such as 5.9 bar) inside the enclosed impeller will cause air to come blasting out of the eight holes in the bottom plate and perhaps this would be enough, in combination with the three other impellers, to lift up the drone. If this is not the case, then perhaps this design could be used for a compact, table top fan.
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
50 mins ago
add a comment |
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Centrifugal stress will be more of a structural problem than air pressure loads. If it doesn't fall apart, it'll be horribly inefficient at producing thrust. Probably pretty good at making noise though.
$endgroup$
– pericynthion
5 hours ago