Does the Grothendieck group of finitely generated modules form a commutative ring where the multiplication...
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Does the Grothendieck group of finitely generated modules form a commutative ring where the multiplication structure is induced from tensor product?
Finding the tensor product of two finitely generated $R$-modules, where $R$ is a PIDEquality of two notions of tensor products over a commutative ringA criterion of flat modulestensor product of modules over commutative ringDoes the tensor product distribute over a direct sum exactly if all the involved modules are bimodules?Induced Representations from Tensor Product of ModulesFinitely generated flat modules over a commutative, local, Noetherian ring are freeOn derived functors of certain $operatorname{Tor}_1$ and $operatorname{Ext}^1$Special case of isomorphism $Sotimes_R mathrm{Hom}_R(M,N) simeq mathrm{Hom}_S(Sotimes_R M, Sotimes_R N)$Grothendieck group of Abelian categories , with “coefficients” in a ring
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For a commutative ring $R$, let mod$R$ denote the category of finitely generated $R$-modules. Let $mathcal C$ be an abelian , full, isomorphism closed (i.e. $Mcong N$ in mod $R$ and $Min Ob(mathcal C)implies Nin Ob(mathcal C)$ ) subcategory of mod$R$. The Grothendieck group of $mathcal C$, usually denoted by $G(mathcal C)$, is defined as $dfrac{bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]}{langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ (where $[X]$ denotes the isomorphism class of $X$ ).
Now if for every $M,Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, we also have $Motimes_R Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, then the $mathbb Z$-module $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ can be given a $mathbb Z$-algebra structure where the ring multiplication is induced by the tensor product. Now if every module in $mathcal C$ is flat, then the $mathbb Z$-submodule ${langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ of $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ is also an ideal, so the Grothendieck group actually becomes a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product. My question is : What happens in case not every module of $mathcal C$ necessarily flat ? Does the Grothendieck group necessarily become a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product ? I'm particularly interested in the case of $G($mod$R)$ , is it necessarily a commutative ring ?
commutative-algebra homological-algebra tensor-products algebraic-k-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a commutative ring $R$, let mod$R$ denote the category of finitely generated $R$-modules. Let $mathcal C$ be an abelian , full, isomorphism closed (i.e. $Mcong N$ in mod $R$ and $Min Ob(mathcal C)implies Nin Ob(mathcal C)$ ) subcategory of mod$R$. The Grothendieck group of $mathcal C$, usually denoted by $G(mathcal C)$, is defined as $dfrac{bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]}{langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ (where $[X]$ denotes the isomorphism class of $X$ ).
Now if for every $M,Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, we also have $Motimes_R Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, then the $mathbb Z$-module $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ can be given a $mathbb Z$-algebra structure where the ring multiplication is induced by the tensor product. Now if every module in $mathcal C$ is flat, then the $mathbb Z$-submodule ${langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ of $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ is also an ideal, so the Grothendieck group actually becomes a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product. My question is : What happens in case not every module of $mathcal C$ necessarily flat ? Does the Grothendieck group necessarily become a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product ? I'm particularly interested in the case of $G($mod$R)$ , is it necessarily a commutative ring ?
commutative-algebra homological-algebra tensor-products algebraic-k-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For a commutative ring $R$, let mod$R$ denote the category of finitely generated $R$-modules. Let $mathcal C$ be an abelian , full, isomorphism closed (i.e. $Mcong N$ in mod $R$ and $Min Ob(mathcal C)implies Nin Ob(mathcal C)$ ) subcategory of mod$R$. The Grothendieck group of $mathcal C$, usually denoted by $G(mathcal C)$, is defined as $dfrac{bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]}{langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ (where $[X]$ denotes the isomorphism class of $X$ ).
Now if for every $M,Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, we also have $Motimes_R Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, then the $mathbb Z$-module $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ can be given a $mathbb Z$-algebra structure where the ring multiplication is induced by the tensor product. Now if every module in $mathcal C$ is flat, then the $mathbb Z$-submodule ${langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ of $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ is also an ideal, so the Grothendieck group actually becomes a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product. My question is : What happens in case not every module of $mathcal C$ necessarily flat ? Does the Grothendieck group necessarily become a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product ? I'm particularly interested in the case of $G($mod$R)$ , is it necessarily a commutative ring ?
commutative-algebra homological-algebra tensor-products algebraic-k-theory
$endgroup$
For a commutative ring $R$, let mod$R$ denote the category of finitely generated $R$-modules. Let $mathcal C$ be an abelian , full, isomorphism closed (i.e. $Mcong N$ in mod $R$ and $Min Ob(mathcal C)implies Nin Ob(mathcal C)$ ) subcategory of mod$R$. The Grothendieck group of $mathcal C$, usually denoted by $G(mathcal C)$, is defined as $dfrac{bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]}{langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ (where $[X]$ denotes the isomorphism class of $X$ ).
Now if for every $M,Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, we also have $Motimes_R Nin Ob(mathcal C)$, then the $mathbb Z$-module $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ can be given a $mathbb Z$-algebra structure where the ring multiplication is induced by the tensor product. Now if every module in $mathcal C$ is flat, then the $mathbb Z$-submodule ${langle [A]-[B]+[C] mid 0to A to B to Cto 0 text{ is exact} rangle }$ of $bigoplus_{Xin operatorname{Ob}(mathcal C)}mathbb Z[X]$ is also an ideal, so the Grothendieck group actually becomes a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product. My question is : What happens in case not every module of $mathcal C$ necessarily flat ? Does the Grothendieck group necessarily become a commutative ring where the product structure is induced from tensor product ? I'm particularly interested in the case of $G($mod$R)$ , is it necessarily a commutative ring ?
commutative-algebra homological-algebra tensor-products algebraic-k-theory
commutative-algebra homological-algebra tensor-products algebraic-k-theory
edited 9 hours ago
user102248
asked 9 hours ago
user102248user102248
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Take $R=mathbb {Z/4}$, and assume $otimes$ induces a distributive multiplication.
Then we have $mathbb{Z/2} + mathbb{Z/2}= mathbb Z/4$ from the usual extension.
However, if you multiply by $mathbb Z/2$, you get on the LHS $mathbb Z/2 + mathbb Z/2$ and on the RHS $mathbb Z/2$, which would imply that $mathbb Z/2 = 0$.
However, if you look at the map defined on finitely generated $mathbb Z/4$-modules (which are therefore finite) by $f:Xmapsto ln |X|$, then it extends linearly to $bigoplus_{X} mathbb Z cdot[X]to (mathbb R, +)$ and whenever $0to Ato Bto Cto 0$ is exact, we have $|B| = |C||A|$ so $f(A)-f(B)+f(C)=0$, therefore $f$ actually induces a map $G(mathrm{mod}-R)to (mathbb{R},+)$ that sends $mathbb Z/2$ to $log 2 neq 0$
Therefore $otimes$ does not induce a distributive multiplication on $G(mathrm{mod}-R)$ (actually if you look at it closely you don't even need to assume distributivity, because it would automatically follow)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. For instance, let $k$ be a field and let $R=k[x]/(x^2)$. Then every finitely generated $R$-module is a direct sum of copies of $R$ and $R/(x)$, and it is easy to see that $G(mathrm{mod}R)$ is freely generated as an abelian group by $[R/(x)]$, with $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ (you can see this since there is a homomorphism $G(mathrm{mod}R)tomathbb{Z}$ sending a module to its dimension as a $k$-vector space). But this group does not form a ring under the tensor product, since $Rotimes Rcong R$ and $R/(x)otimes R/(x)cong R/(x)$ so we would need to have both $[R]^2=[R]=2[R/(x)]$ and $[R]^2=(2[R/(x)])^2=4[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
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thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
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– user102248
8 hours ago
1
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In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
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– Max
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
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Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $R$ is a ring such that for every $R$-module $M$ there is a projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ of finite length (actually, this condition can be loosened quite a bit as I will note at the end). Then we can define a ring structure on $G(R)$ the Grothendieck group of finitely generated $R$-modules by defining the following product
$$
[A] cdot [B] = sum_i (-1)^i text{Tor}_i(A,B).
$$
Note that if $P$ is a projective $R$-module, then $[A]cdot[P] = [A otimes P]$ since the $text{Tor}_i(A,P)$ vanish for $i >0$.
The way to show this is a little painful. We need to show that
- This product is independent of choice of resolution,
- this product is well-defined,
- this product is symmetric,
- this product satisfies the ring axioms.
It is in my opinion easier to define this product as a map on $G(R)$ first, though tastes may vary. Fix a finitely generated $R$-module $M$ and let
$$
- cdot M : G(R) to G(R),; [A] mapsto [A] cdot M := sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(A,M)].
$$
Then one can show that this map is independent of the choice of resolution by showing $text{Tor}_i(-,M)$ is. The well-definedness of the map follows since for any short exact sequende $0 to A to B to C to 0$ we have a long exact sequence of Tor, which shows $[A] cdot M - [B] cdot M + [C] cdot M = 0$. The symmetry follows from the symmetry of Tor, so $[A] cdot B = [B] cdot A$.
From this point it is therefore acceptable to write $[A] cdot [B]$, and we can prove the ring axioms one by one. For this it is good to note that for an $R$-module $M$ with projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ we have
$$
[M] cdot [N] = sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(M,N)] = sum_i(-1)^i H_i(P_bullet otimes N) = sum_i (-1)^i [P_i otimes N].
$$
This computation involves the nontrivial lemma that in the Grothendieck group we have $sum_i(-1)^i [C_i] = sum_i (-1)^i [H_i(C_bullet)]$ for any complex $C_bullet$ in the category.
Then the ring axioms can easily be checked by using properties of the tensor product.
The requirement that every object in the category have a finite projective resolution is actually too strong. If every object has a finite resolution that is $F$-acyclic for a functor $F$ on the category, then it induces a derived morphism on Grothendieck groups. Actually, the resolution need not even be in the category itself. For example for categories of coherent sheaves we almost never have projective resolutions, but in some situations (details omitted on purpose) we may have locally free resolutions, which are $text{Tor}_i(-, *)$ acyclic, so that we can define the product.
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1
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well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
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– user102248
8 hours ago
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@user102248 Yes.
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– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
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thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
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– user102248
8 hours ago
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
Take $R=mathbb {Z/4}$, and assume $otimes$ induces a distributive multiplication.
Then we have $mathbb{Z/2} + mathbb{Z/2}= mathbb Z/4$ from the usual extension.
However, if you multiply by $mathbb Z/2$, you get on the LHS $mathbb Z/2 + mathbb Z/2$ and on the RHS $mathbb Z/2$, which would imply that $mathbb Z/2 = 0$.
However, if you look at the map defined on finitely generated $mathbb Z/4$-modules (which are therefore finite) by $f:Xmapsto ln |X|$, then it extends linearly to $bigoplus_{X} mathbb Z cdot[X]to (mathbb R, +)$ and whenever $0to Ato Bto Cto 0$ is exact, we have $|B| = |C||A|$ so $f(A)-f(B)+f(C)=0$, therefore $f$ actually induces a map $G(mathrm{mod}-R)to (mathbb{R},+)$ that sends $mathbb Z/2$ to $log 2 neq 0$
Therefore $otimes$ does not induce a distributive multiplication on $G(mathrm{mod}-R)$ (actually if you look at it closely you don't even need to assume distributivity, because it would automatically follow)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Take $R=mathbb {Z/4}$, and assume $otimes$ induces a distributive multiplication.
Then we have $mathbb{Z/2} + mathbb{Z/2}= mathbb Z/4$ from the usual extension.
However, if you multiply by $mathbb Z/2$, you get on the LHS $mathbb Z/2 + mathbb Z/2$ and on the RHS $mathbb Z/2$, which would imply that $mathbb Z/2 = 0$.
However, if you look at the map defined on finitely generated $mathbb Z/4$-modules (which are therefore finite) by $f:Xmapsto ln |X|$, then it extends linearly to $bigoplus_{X} mathbb Z cdot[X]to (mathbb R, +)$ and whenever $0to Ato Bto Cto 0$ is exact, we have $|B| = |C||A|$ so $f(A)-f(B)+f(C)=0$, therefore $f$ actually induces a map $G(mathrm{mod}-R)to (mathbb{R},+)$ that sends $mathbb Z/2$ to $log 2 neq 0$
Therefore $otimes$ does not induce a distributive multiplication on $G(mathrm{mod}-R)$ (actually if you look at it closely you don't even need to assume distributivity, because it would automatically follow)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Take $R=mathbb {Z/4}$, and assume $otimes$ induces a distributive multiplication.
Then we have $mathbb{Z/2} + mathbb{Z/2}= mathbb Z/4$ from the usual extension.
However, if you multiply by $mathbb Z/2$, you get on the LHS $mathbb Z/2 + mathbb Z/2$ and on the RHS $mathbb Z/2$, which would imply that $mathbb Z/2 = 0$.
However, if you look at the map defined on finitely generated $mathbb Z/4$-modules (which are therefore finite) by $f:Xmapsto ln |X|$, then it extends linearly to $bigoplus_{X} mathbb Z cdot[X]to (mathbb R, +)$ and whenever $0to Ato Bto Cto 0$ is exact, we have $|B| = |C||A|$ so $f(A)-f(B)+f(C)=0$, therefore $f$ actually induces a map $G(mathrm{mod}-R)to (mathbb{R},+)$ that sends $mathbb Z/2$ to $log 2 neq 0$
Therefore $otimes$ does not induce a distributive multiplication on $G(mathrm{mod}-R)$ (actually if you look at it closely you don't even need to assume distributivity, because it would automatically follow)
$endgroup$
Take $R=mathbb {Z/4}$, and assume $otimes$ induces a distributive multiplication.
Then we have $mathbb{Z/2} + mathbb{Z/2}= mathbb Z/4$ from the usual extension.
However, if you multiply by $mathbb Z/2$, you get on the LHS $mathbb Z/2 + mathbb Z/2$ and on the RHS $mathbb Z/2$, which would imply that $mathbb Z/2 = 0$.
However, if you look at the map defined on finitely generated $mathbb Z/4$-modules (which are therefore finite) by $f:Xmapsto ln |X|$, then it extends linearly to $bigoplus_{X} mathbb Z cdot[X]to (mathbb R, +)$ and whenever $0to Ato Bto Cto 0$ is exact, we have $|B| = |C||A|$ so $f(A)-f(B)+f(C)=0$, therefore $f$ actually induces a map $G(mathrm{mod}-R)to (mathbb{R},+)$ that sends $mathbb Z/2$ to $log 2 neq 0$
Therefore $otimes$ does not induce a distributive multiplication on $G(mathrm{mod}-R)$ (actually if you look at it closely you don't even need to assume distributivity, because it would automatically follow)
answered 9 hours ago
MaxMax
20k1 gold badge12 silver badges46 bronze badges
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No. For instance, let $k$ be a field and let $R=k[x]/(x^2)$. Then every finitely generated $R$-module is a direct sum of copies of $R$ and $R/(x)$, and it is easy to see that $G(mathrm{mod}R)$ is freely generated as an abelian group by $[R/(x)]$, with $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ (you can see this since there is a homomorphism $G(mathrm{mod}R)tomathbb{Z}$ sending a module to its dimension as a $k$-vector space). But this group does not form a ring under the tensor product, since $Rotimes Rcong R$ and $R/(x)otimes R/(x)cong R/(x)$ so we would need to have both $[R]^2=[R]=2[R/(x)]$ and $[R]^2=(2[R/(x)])^2=4[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. For instance, let $k$ be a field and let $R=k[x]/(x^2)$. Then every finitely generated $R$-module is a direct sum of copies of $R$ and $R/(x)$, and it is easy to see that $G(mathrm{mod}R)$ is freely generated as an abelian group by $[R/(x)]$, with $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ (you can see this since there is a homomorphism $G(mathrm{mod}R)tomathbb{Z}$ sending a module to its dimension as a $k$-vector space). But this group does not form a ring under the tensor product, since $Rotimes Rcong R$ and $R/(x)otimes R/(x)cong R/(x)$ so we would need to have both $[R]^2=[R]=2[R/(x)]$ and $[R]^2=(2[R/(x)])^2=4[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No. For instance, let $k$ be a field and let $R=k[x]/(x^2)$. Then every finitely generated $R$-module is a direct sum of copies of $R$ and $R/(x)$, and it is easy to see that $G(mathrm{mod}R)$ is freely generated as an abelian group by $[R/(x)]$, with $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ (you can see this since there is a homomorphism $G(mathrm{mod}R)tomathbb{Z}$ sending a module to its dimension as a $k$-vector space). But this group does not form a ring under the tensor product, since $Rotimes Rcong R$ and $R/(x)otimes R/(x)cong R/(x)$ so we would need to have both $[R]^2=[R]=2[R/(x)]$ and $[R]^2=(2[R/(x)])^2=4[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
No. For instance, let $k$ be a field and let $R=k[x]/(x^2)$. Then every finitely generated $R$-module is a direct sum of copies of $R$ and $R/(x)$, and it is easy to see that $G(mathrm{mod}R)$ is freely generated as an abelian group by $[R/(x)]$, with $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ (you can see this since there is a homomorphism $G(mathrm{mod}R)tomathbb{Z}$ sending a module to its dimension as a $k$-vector space). But this group does not form a ring under the tensor product, since $Rotimes Rcong R$ and $R/(x)otimes R/(x)cong R/(x)$ so we would need to have both $[R]^2=[R]=2[R/(x)]$ and $[R]^2=(2[R/(x)])^2=4[R/(x)]$.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Eric WofseyEric Wofsey
201k14 gold badges234 silver badges365 bronze badges
201k14 gold badges234 silver badges365 bronze badges
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
thanks ... this might be a stupid question, but is there a chance that $G($mod$R)$ would become a ring with tensor multiplication structure if we took some other coefficient ring than $mathbb Z$ ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a sense you're not done, as far as I can see you still need to see why $[R] neq 0$
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Max: That's implied by the fact I mentioned that the group is freely generated by $[R/(x)]$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh my bad I hadn't noticed the word freely !
$endgroup$
– Max
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248: Not unless the coefficient ring is trivial. You will always get a module freely generated by $[R/(x)]$, and then the relations $[R/(x)]^2=[R/(x)]$, $[R][R/(x)]=[R/(x)]$, and $[R]=2[R/(x)]$ are easily seen to imply that everything is $0$.
$endgroup$
– Eric Wofsey
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $R$ is a ring such that for every $R$-module $M$ there is a projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ of finite length (actually, this condition can be loosened quite a bit as I will note at the end). Then we can define a ring structure on $G(R)$ the Grothendieck group of finitely generated $R$-modules by defining the following product
$$
[A] cdot [B] = sum_i (-1)^i text{Tor}_i(A,B).
$$
Note that if $P$ is a projective $R$-module, then $[A]cdot[P] = [A otimes P]$ since the $text{Tor}_i(A,P)$ vanish for $i >0$.
The way to show this is a little painful. We need to show that
- This product is independent of choice of resolution,
- this product is well-defined,
- this product is symmetric,
- this product satisfies the ring axioms.
It is in my opinion easier to define this product as a map on $G(R)$ first, though tastes may vary. Fix a finitely generated $R$-module $M$ and let
$$
- cdot M : G(R) to G(R),; [A] mapsto [A] cdot M := sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(A,M)].
$$
Then one can show that this map is independent of the choice of resolution by showing $text{Tor}_i(-,M)$ is. The well-definedness of the map follows since for any short exact sequende $0 to A to B to C to 0$ we have a long exact sequence of Tor, which shows $[A] cdot M - [B] cdot M + [C] cdot M = 0$. The symmetry follows from the symmetry of Tor, so $[A] cdot B = [B] cdot A$.
From this point it is therefore acceptable to write $[A] cdot [B]$, and we can prove the ring axioms one by one. For this it is good to note that for an $R$-module $M$ with projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ we have
$$
[M] cdot [N] = sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(M,N)] = sum_i(-1)^i H_i(P_bullet otimes N) = sum_i (-1)^i [P_i otimes N].
$$
This computation involves the nontrivial lemma that in the Grothendieck group we have $sum_i(-1)^i [C_i] = sum_i (-1)^i [H_i(C_bullet)]$ for any complex $C_bullet$ in the category.
Then the ring axioms can easily be checked by using properties of the tensor product.
The requirement that every object in the category have a finite projective resolution is actually too strong. If every object has a finite resolution that is $F$-acyclic for a functor $F$ on the category, then it induces a derived morphism on Grothendieck groups. Actually, the resolution need not even be in the category itself. For example for categories of coherent sheaves we almost never have projective resolutions, but in some situations (details omitted on purpose) we may have locally free resolutions, which are $text{Tor}_i(-, *)$ acyclic, so that we can define the product.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $R$ is a ring such that for every $R$-module $M$ there is a projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ of finite length (actually, this condition can be loosened quite a bit as I will note at the end). Then we can define a ring structure on $G(R)$ the Grothendieck group of finitely generated $R$-modules by defining the following product
$$
[A] cdot [B] = sum_i (-1)^i text{Tor}_i(A,B).
$$
Note that if $P$ is a projective $R$-module, then $[A]cdot[P] = [A otimes P]$ since the $text{Tor}_i(A,P)$ vanish for $i >0$.
The way to show this is a little painful. We need to show that
- This product is independent of choice of resolution,
- this product is well-defined,
- this product is symmetric,
- this product satisfies the ring axioms.
It is in my opinion easier to define this product as a map on $G(R)$ first, though tastes may vary. Fix a finitely generated $R$-module $M$ and let
$$
- cdot M : G(R) to G(R),; [A] mapsto [A] cdot M := sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(A,M)].
$$
Then one can show that this map is independent of the choice of resolution by showing $text{Tor}_i(-,M)$ is. The well-definedness of the map follows since for any short exact sequende $0 to A to B to C to 0$ we have a long exact sequence of Tor, which shows $[A] cdot M - [B] cdot M + [C] cdot M = 0$. The symmetry follows from the symmetry of Tor, so $[A] cdot B = [B] cdot A$.
From this point it is therefore acceptable to write $[A] cdot [B]$, and we can prove the ring axioms one by one. For this it is good to note that for an $R$-module $M$ with projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ we have
$$
[M] cdot [N] = sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(M,N)] = sum_i(-1)^i H_i(P_bullet otimes N) = sum_i (-1)^i [P_i otimes N].
$$
This computation involves the nontrivial lemma that in the Grothendieck group we have $sum_i(-1)^i [C_i] = sum_i (-1)^i [H_i(C_bullet)]$ for any complex $C_bullet$ in the category.
Then the ring axioms can easily be checked by using properties of the tensor product.
The requirement that every object in the category have a finite projective resolution is actually too strong. If every object has a finite resolution that is $F$-acyclic for a functor $F$ on the category, then it induces a derived morphism on Grothendieck groups. Actually, the resolution need not even be in the category itself. For example for categories of coherent sheaves we almost never have projective resolutions, but in some situations (details omitted on purpose) we may have locally free resolutions, which are $text{Tor}_i(-, *)$ acyclic, so that we can define the product.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $R$ is a ring such that for every $R$-module $M$ there is a projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ of finite length (actually, this condition can be loosened quite a bit as I will note at the end). Then we can define a ring structure on $G(R)$ the Grothendieck group of finitely generated $R$-modules by defining the following product
$$
[A] cdot [B] = sum_i (-1)^i text{Tor}_i(A,B).
$$
Note that if $P$ is a projective $R$-module, then $[A]cdot[P] = [A otimes P]$ since the $text{Tor}_i(A,P)$ vanish for $i >0$.
The way to show this is a little painful. We need to show that
- This product is independent of choice of resolution,
- this product is well-defined,
- this product is symmetric,
- this product satisfies the ring axioms.
It is in my opinion easier to define this product as a map on $G(R)$ first, though tastes may vary. Fix a finitely generated $R$-module $M$ and let
$$
- cdot M : G(R) to G(R),; [A] mapsto [A] cdot M := sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(A,M)].
$$
Then one can show that this map is independent of the choice of resolution by showing $text{Tor}_i(-,M)$ is. The well-definedness of the map follows since for any short exact sequende $0 to A to B to C to 0$ we have a long exact sequence of Tor, which shows $[A] cdot M - [B] cdot M + [C] cdot M = 0$. The symmetry follows from the symmetry of Tor, so $[A] cdot B = [B] cdot A$.
From this point it is therefore acceptable to write $[A] cdot [B]$, and we can prove the ring axioms one by one. For this it is good to note that for an $R$-module $M$ with projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ we have
$$
[M] cdot [N] = sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(M,N)] = sum_i(-1)^i H_i(P_bullet otimes N) = sum_i (-1)^i [P_i otimes N].
$$
This computation involves the nontrivial lemma that in the Grothendieck group we have $sum_i(-1)^i [C_i] = sum_i (-1)^i [H_i(C_bullet)]$ for any complex $C_bullet$ in the category.
Then the ring axioms can easily be checked by using properties of the tensor product.
The requirement that every object in the category have a finite projective resolution is actually too strong. If every object has a finite resolution that is $F$-acyclic for a functor $F$ on the category, then it induces a derived morphism on Grothendieck groups. Actually, the resolution need not even be in the category itself. For example for categories of coherent sheaves we almost never have projective resolutions, but in some situations (details omitted on purpose) we may have locally free resolutions, which are $text{Tor}_i(-, *)$ acyclic, so that we can define the product.
$endgroup$
Suppose $R$ is a ring such that for every $R$-module $M$ there is a projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ of finite length (actually, this condition can be loosened quite a bit as I will note at the end). Then we can define a ring structure on $G(R)$ the Grothendieck group of finitely generated $R$-modules by defining the following product
$$
[A] cdot [B] = sum_i (-1)^i text{Tor}_i(A,B).
$$
Note that if $P$ is a projective $R$-module, then $[A]cdot[P] = [A otimes P]$ since the $text{Tor}_i(A,P)$ vanish for $i >0$.
The way to show this is a little painful. We need to show that
- This product is independent of choice of resolution,
- this product is well-defined,
- this product is symmetric,
- this product satisfies the ring axioms.
It is in my opinion easier to define this product as a map on $G(R)$ first, though tastes may vary. Fix a finitely generated $R$-module $M$ and let
$$
- cdot M : G(R) to G(R),; [A] mapsto [A] cdot M := sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(A,M)].
$$
Then one can show that this map is independent of the choice of resolution by showing $text{Tor}_i(-,M)$ is. The well-definedness of the map follows since for any short exact sequende $0 to A to B to C to 0$ we have a long exact sequence of Tor, which shows $[A] cdot M - [B] cdot M + [C] cdot M = 0$. The symmetry follows from the symmetry of Tor, so $[A] cdot B = [B] cdot A$.
From this point it is therefore acceptable to write $[A] cdot [B]$, and we can prove the ring axioms one by one. For this it is good to note that for an $R$-module $M$ with projective resolution $P_bullet to M$ we have
$$
[M] cdot [N] = sum_i (-1)^i [text{Tor}_i(M,N)] = sum_i(-1)^i H_i(P_bullet otimes N) = sum_i (-1)^i [P_i otimes N].
$$
This computation involves the nontrivial lemma that in the Grothendieck group we have $sum_i(-1)^i [C_i] = sum_i (-1)^i [H_i(C_bullet)]$ for any complex $C_bullet$ in the category.
Then the ring axioms can easily be checked by using properties of the tensor product.
The requirement that every object in the category have a finite projective resolution is actually too strong. If every object has a finite resolution that is $F$-acyclic for a functor $F$ on the category, then it induces a derived morphism on Grothendieck groups. Actually, the resolution need not even be in the category itself. For example for categories of coherent sheaves we almost never have projective resolutions, but in some situations (details omitted on purpose) we may have locally free resolutions, which are $text{Tor}_i(-, *)$ acyclic, so that we can define the product.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Ruben du BurckRuben du Burck
7012 silver badges12 bronze badges
7012 silver badges12 bronze badges
1
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
well thanks , but I do not understand what is the relation of your derived tensor product with my question ... does this derived tensor product naturally turns the Grothendieck group into a commutative ring ?
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@user102248 Yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruben du Burck
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
thanks, I will think why ... btw, more generally, for regular rings of finite Krull dimension, every module has finite projective dimension
$endgroup$
– user102248
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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