Using a concentration spell on top of another spell from another spell list?Does Flame Blade count as a...

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Using a concentration spell on top of another spell from another spell list?


Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?What are the levels used for Cantrips learned with the “Magic Initiate” feat?If you have the ability to cast a spell without a spell slot can you cast that spell using a spell slot?What is the spell save DC and spellcasting modifier for a Rogue with Magic Initiate?Is the attack modifier of Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade based on your spellcasting ability, or your weapon attack modifier?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Arcane Strike' balanced?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Astral Smash' balanced?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Battery' balanced?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Blizzard Blow' balanced?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Vampiric Assault' balanced?Is the homebrew weapon attack cantrip 'Viper Strike' balanced?






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9












$begingroup$


This question was brought up in my intense scheming against a D&D boss my DM created in my off-hours. I'm a druid, so I was thinking of all the broken ways I could use my spells. Then it hit me that I could take feats. Taking the Magic Initiate Feat:




Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You
learn two cantrips of your choice from tat class's spell list...Your
spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose:
Charisma for sorcerer and warlock, and Intelligence for wizard.




I include only this part because if I take the Booming Blade cantrip and use it on my already concentration spell Flame Blade, which modifier do I use? Booming Blade states that




As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee
attack with a weapon against one creature...




Since it says make a melee attack with a weapon and I am using Flame Blade, does that use my Wisdom mod since I'm a Druid or Charisma for Sorcerer/Warlock and Int for Wizards if I took it from their spell list?










share|improve this question









New contributor



DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago


















9












$begingroup$


This question was brought up in my intense scheming against a D&D boss my DM created in my off-hours. I'm a druid, so I was thinking of all the broken ways I could use my spells. Then it hit me that I could take feats. Taking the Magic Initiate Feat:




Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You
learn two cantrips of your choice from tat class's spell list...Your
spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose:
Charisma for sorcerer and warlock, and Intelligence for wizard.




I include only this part because if I take the Booming Blade cantrip and use it on my already concentration spell Flame Blade, which modifier do I use? Booming Blade states that




As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee
attack with a weapon against one creature...




Since it says make a melee attack with a weapon and I am using Flame Blade, does that use my Wisdom mod since I'm a Druid or Charisma for Sorcerer/Warlock and Int for Wizards if I took it from their spell list?










share|improve this question









New contributor



DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














9












9








9





$begingroup$


This question was brought up in my intense scheming against a D&D boss my DM created in my off-hours. I'm a druid, so I was thinking of all the broken ways I could use my spells. Then it hit me that I could take feats. Taking the Magic Initiate Feat:




Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You
learn two cantrips of your choice from tat class's spell list...Your
spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose:
Charisma for sorcerer and warlock, and Intelligence for wizard.




I include only this part because if I take the Booming Blade cantrip and use it on my already concentration spell Flame Blade, which modifier do I use? Booming Blade states that




As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee
attack with a weapon against one creature...




Since it says make a melee attack with a weapon and I am using Flame Blade, does that use my Wisdom mod since I'm a Druid or Charisma for Sorcerer/Warlock and Int for Wizards if I took it from their spell list?










share|improve this question









New contributor



DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




This question was brought up in my intense scheming against a D&D boss my DM created in my off-hours. I'm a druid, so I was thinking of all the broken ways I could use my spells. Then it hit me that I could take feats. Taking the Magic Initiate Feat:




Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You
learn two cantrips of your choice from tat class's spell list...Your
spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose:
Charisma for sorcerer and warlock, and Intelligence for wizard.




I include only this part because if I take the Booming Blade cantrip and use it on my already concentration spell Flame Blade, which modifier do I use? Booming Blade states that




As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee
attack with a weapon against one creature...




Since it says make a melee attack with a weapon and I am using Flame Blade, does that use my Wisdom mod since I'm a Druid or Charisma for Sorcerer/Warlock and Int for Wizards if I took it from their spell list?







dnd-5e spells






share|improve this question









New contributor



DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




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edited 10 hours ago









Sdjz

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asked 10 hours ago









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Check out our Code of Conduct.










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago








2




2




$begingroup$
Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
Very related, probably not a duplicate: Does Flame Blade count as a weapon for Green-Flame Blade?
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















13












$begingroup$


Flame Blade cannot be used with Booming Blade



Although diegetically the Flame Blade spell gives you a flaming weapon, you cannot use it for ordinary weapon attacks like what Booming Blade requires. The Flame Blade spell only gives you the ability to make Melee Spell Attacks with your action, dealing the amount of damage specified by the spell.




You evoke a fiery blade in your free hand. The blade is similar in size and shape to a scimitar, and it lasts for the duration. If you let go of the blade, it disappears, but you can evoke the blade again as a bonus action.



You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 fire damage.



Flame Blade, Player's Handbook, pg. 242




This is in contrast to a spell like Shadow Blade, which does yield a weapon that can then be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, because the weapon provided by that spell is, for all mechanical purposes, a proper weapon.




You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60).



Shadow Blade, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg. 164






"But what if my DM is super nice to me and lets me do this?"



If it were possible to use Flame Blade with Booming Blade, as a consequence of DM houserules, you would make a Melee Spell Attack using the Spellcasting ability associated with Flame Blade, which as a Druid spell, is Wisdom, and then add the Booming Blade effects on top of the Flame Blade damage. This is because Booming Blade calls for the user to make a normal melee attack with their held weapon, and uses all the normal rules for an attack made with that weapon. Since Flame Blade's action uses a Melee Spell Attack, you'd have to translate that to its use with Booming Blade.



Conversely, if you were to use a spell like Green Flame Blade, obtained as a Wizard spell, with your Flame Blade, you'd have the strange (but mechanically solvent) situation where Wisdom is used as the Ability modifier for the Attack Roll, and then Intelligence is used as the Damage Bonus on the secondary effect of Green Flame Blade.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














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1 Answer
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active

oldest

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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

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13












$begingroup$


Flame Blade cannot be used with Booming Blade



Although diegetically the Flame Blade spell gives you a flaming weapon, you cannot use it for ordinary weapon attacks like what Booming Blade requires. The Flame Blade spell only gives you the ability to make Melee Spell Attacks with your action, dealing the amount of damage specified by the spell.




You evoke a fiery blade in your free hand. The blade is similar in size and shape to a scimitar, and it lasts for the duration. If you let go of the blade, it disappears, but you can evoke the blade again as a bonus action.



You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 fire damage.



Flame Blade, Player's Handbook, pg. 242




This is in contrast to a spell like Shadow Blade, which does yield a weapon that can then be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, because the weapon provided by that spell is, for all mechanical purposes, a proper weapon.




You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60).



Shadow Blade, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg. 164






"But what if my DM is super nice to me and lets me do this?"



If it were possible to use Flame Blade with Booming Blade, as a consequence of DM houserules, you would make a Melee Spell Attack using the Spellcasting ability associated with Flame Blade, which as a Druid spell, is Wisdom, and then add the Booming Blade effects on top of the Flame Blade damage. This is because Booming Blade calls for the user to make a normal melee attack with their held weapon, and uses all the normal rules for an attack made with that weapon. Since Flame Blade's action uses a Melee Spell Attack, you'd have to translate that to its use with Booming Blade.



Conversely, if you were to use a spell like Green Flame Blade, obtained as a Wizard spell, with your Flame Blade, you'd have the strange (but mechanically solvent) situation where Wisdom is used as the Ability modifier for the Attack Roll, and then Intelligence is used as the Damage Bonus on the secondary effect of Green Flame Blade.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago
















13












$begingroup$


Flame Blade cannot be used with Booming Blade



Although diegetically the Flame Blade spell gives you a flaming weapon, you cannot use it for ordinary weapon attacks like what Booming Blade requires. The Flame Blade spell only gives you the ability to make Melee Spell Attacks with your action, dealing the amount of damage specified by the spell.




You evoke a fiery blade in your free hand. The blade is similar in size and shape to a scimitar, and it lasts for the duration. If you let go of the blade, it disappears, but you can evoke the blade again as a bonus action.



You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 fire damage.



Flame Blade, Player's Handbook, pg. 242




This is in contrast to a spell like Shadow Blade, which does yield a weapon that can then be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, because the weapon provided by that spell is, for all mechanical purposes, a proper weapon.




You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60).



Shadow Blade, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg. 164






"But what if my DM is super nice to me and lets me do this?"



If it were possible to use Flame Blade with Booming Blade, as a consequence of DM houserules, you would make a Melee Spell Attack using the Spellcasting ability associated with Flame Blade, which as a Druid spell, is Wisdom, and then add the Booming Blade effects on top of the Flame Blade damage. This is because Booming Blade calls for the user to make a normal melee attack with their held weapon, and uses all the normal rules for an attack made with that weapon. Since Flame Blade's action uses a Melee Spell Attack, you'd have to translate that to its use with Booming Blade.



Conversely, if you were to use a spell like Green Flame Blade, obtained as a Wizard spell, with your Flame Blade, you'd have the strange (but mechanically solvent) situation where Wisdom is used as the Ability modifier for the Attack Roll, and then Intelligence is used as the Damage Bonus on the secondary effect of Green Flame Blade.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














13












13








13





$begingroup$


Flame Blade cannot be used with Booming Blade



Although diegetically the Flame Blade spell gives you a flaming weapon, you cannot use it for ordinary weapon attacks like what Booming Blade requires. The Flame Blade spell only gives you the ability to make Melee Spell Attacks with your action, dealing the amount of damage specified by the spell.




You evoke a fiery blade in your free hand. The blade is similar in size and shape to a scimitar, and it lasts for the duration. If you let go of the blade, it disappears, but you can evoke the blade again as a bonus action.



You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 fire damage.



Flame Blade, Player's Handbook, pg. 242




This is in contrast to a spell like Shadow Blade, which does yield a weapon that can then be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, because the weapon provided by that spell is, for all mechanical purposes, a proper weapon.




You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60).



Shadow Blade, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg. 164






"But what if my DM is super nice to me and lets me do this?"



If it were possible to use Flame Blade with Booming Blade, as a consequence of DM houserules, you would make a Melee Spell Attack using the Spellcasting ability associated with Flame Blade, which as a Druid spell, is Wisdom, and then add the Booming Blade effects on top of the Flame Blade damage. This is because Booming Blade calls for the user to make a normal melee attack with their held weapon, and uses all the normal rules for an attack made with that weapon. Since Flame Blade's action uses a Melee Spell Attack, you'd have to translate that to its use with Booming Blade.



Conversely, if you were to use a spell like Green Flame Blade, obtained as a Wizard spell, with your Flame Blade, you'd have the strange (but mechanically solvent) situation where Wisdom is used as the Ability modifier for the Attack Roll, and then Intelligence is used as the Damage Bonus on the secondary effect of Green Flame Blade.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




Flame Blade cannot be used with Booming Blade



Although diegetically the Flame Blade spell gives you a flaming weapon, you cannot use it for ordinary weapon attacks like what Booming Blade requires. The Flame Blade spell only gives you the ability to make Melee Spell Attacks with your action, dealing the amount of damage specified by the spell.




You evoke a fiery blade in your free hand. The blade is similar in size and shape to a scimitar, and it lasts for the duration. If you let go of the blade, it disappears, but you can evoke the blade again as a bonus action.



You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade. On a hit, the target takes 3d6 fire damage.



Flame Blade, Player's Handbook, pg. 242




This is in contrast to a spell like Shadow Blade, which does yield a weapon that can then be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, because the weapon provided by that spell is, for all mechanical purposes, a proper weapon.




You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60).



Shadow Blade, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg. 164






"But what if my DM is super nice to me and lets me do this?"



If it were possible to use Flame Blade with Booming Blade, as a consequence of DM houserules, you would make a Melee Spell Attack using the Spellcasting ability associated with Flame Blade, which as a Druid spell, is Wisdom, and then add the Booming Blade effects on top of the Flame Blade damage. This is because Booming Blade calls for the user to make a normal melee attack with their held weapon, and uses all the normal rules for an attack made with that weapon. Since Flame Blade's action uses a Melee Spell Attack, you'd have to translate that to its use with Booming Blade.



Conversely, if you were to use a spell like Green Flame Blade, obtained as a Wizard spell, with your Flame Blade, you'd have the strange (but mechanically solvent) situation where Wisdom is used as the Ability modifier for the Attack Roll, and then Intelligence is used as the Damage Bonus on the secondary effect of Green Flame Blade.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 10 hours ago

























answered 10 hours ago









XiremaXirema

30.6k3 gold badges95 silver badges179 bronze badges




30.6k3 gold badges95 silver badges179 bronze badges








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
@Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Rykara Except that we're specifically describing the scenario where the user is using Flame Blade as their weapon, which ordinarily calls for a Melee Spell Attack and would use Wisdom. Using Dexterity or Strength would imply the Flame Blade has statistics as an actual weapon, which it does not. Granted, this cannot happen Rules-As-Written, so talking about what should or should not happen is kind of a trap, but this is my best approximation of what should happen if the DM bends the rules like this.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Rykara If we were instead talking about Shadow Blade (which Rules-As-Written can be used with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade), then you would be correct.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago










DungeonMasterNiko is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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