Mdthbs

Consider the following situation. Two creatures A and B sneak up on a creature X, successfully remaining unnoticed by it. Without signalling this to B in any way, A then throws a dagger at X from its hiding place. This starts the encounter: It is determined that X is surprised and everyone has to roll for initiative: A rolls a 1, B rolls a 10, X rolls a 20. So X goes first, but cannot do anything on its turn, as it's surprised. Next up is B, who goes into melee and attacks X but misses. X can then use its reaction (since its turn has ended) for the Riposte Maneuver by which it kills B.

Isn't this really, really strange from a narrative point of view? The idea is that the encounter is triggered by A throwing the dagger from hiding (successful Stealth check), but as it turns out, B is already killed by the surprised X, before that trigger even occurs?!

Question 1: Am I right that this is in fact the right way to proceed by RAW?

Question 2: Are there common alternative ways of handling such a situation as a DM?

(Related, even possible duplicates: When exactly does combat start and surprise take effect? & What happens when initiative allows a player to act before the player that started the combat?)

Yes, That Description is RAW

That is the way mechanics happens in RAW. How you narrate that to make sense is up to you. Remember the rules are simulationist, and everything that happens in a round is happening inside 6 seconds and at the "same time".

Two Common Alternatives

There are two common alternatives I've seen:

1. 
   

   Surprise Round - Borrowing from other system, including 3.5 and Pathfinder, some DMs I've seen hold on to a full surprise round. It would mean the surprised creature doesn't get its reaction back until after B has gone.

   
   
   

   
   

   The Surprise Round

   
   
   

   If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

   
   
   

   (DnD 3.5)

   
   

   
   


2. 
   

   The action that starts surprise combat happens before the first round - The dagger is thrown and damage dealt, then initiative is rolled, and the creature has the surprised condition for the first round of combat. This is what I play, and I first saw it in how Matt Mercer of Critical Role DMs.

   
   
   

   The players must have passed a stealth check against the character's perception. Note, that players don't know if they are really hidden, until they attempt to sneak by or attack. If they aren't stealthy as they think, I narrate something like, "You ready your dagger to throw, and X looks at you. Roll initiative."

   
   
   

   I allow monsters to do it very occasionally as well (if players can, the NPCs can, too). It works well with narrative. I make the stealth check behind the screen, check the passive perception, or ask for a roll (roll is better here, as it lets the players feel I didn't do arbitrarily). Then, "You feel a sharp pain as you down you notice an arrow has sprouted from the joint in the armor. You look around to find the source. You are surprised to see X staring at you. Roll initiative." And if it fails to beat their perception check when a monster tries it, my players love it. "You see an X creeping in the forest, it appears to think you don't see him. What would you like to do?"

   
   



3. From comments, it has also been suggested that a common method is to give a initiative bonus to the surprise attacker who starts the combat, or to just let them go first in the initiative order. This works with the narrative and isn't as powerful as 1 or 2, and is less likely to have balance issues.

Game Designers and Initiative

There are a few other options for how initiative is done posted by game designer Mike Mearls to Unearthed Arcana back in 2017. In it he proposes initiative is calculated the other way, higher number goes last. Surprise adds 10 to the initiative and the creature can't take reactions until its turn. This isn't a common way, but it is very interesting.

The narration of the event seems strange to you because you are confusing the planned order of events with the actual order of events.

The plan was that the encounter begins when A throws their dagger. So if the characters had followed the plan then the order of events for round 1 would have been:

• X does nothing because they don't know they are in an encounter yet.


• B has their turn and prepares an action to attack X, specifying that
  the trigger for their action is A's attack.


• A throws the dagger.


• B performs their prepared action.

But the characters did not follow the plan. Instead:

• X did nothing.


• B got excited and attacked early.


• A attacked.

As you can see, the narration is clear for both orders of events so long as you are viewing them in the correct context.

Your interpretation of the rule is correct

According to D&D Beyond's Chapter 9: Combat, under Surprise,

If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends.

After that turn (the surprised creature's turn) ends, it is then free to take a reaction, as the rule removes any such restrictions at the end of that turn.

RAW does (indirectly) provide a narrative way to parse the sequence of events

From the same chapter, under The Order of Combat, D&D Beyond says

A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world.

and then later under Movement and Position,

In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion...

So, our characters aren't actually just standing around and waiting for their turn to move and fight. They're moving around, striking, parrying, flourishing, and so on, all at the same time, and the game just uses the turn system to sort it all out in a useful way.

In other words, there is a lot of maneuvering going on that just doesn't make it into the mechanical turn system. Everything's basically happening at about the same time, and the game just uses turns and rounds to mechanically sort it out.

How does this help us?

Well, let's take your example.

A triggers the fight with a sneaky stealth attack, but X wins on initiative and goes first, with B going second, and A going last. So the scene plays out like this.

A starts to move in to attack. X, going first, becomes aware of A and B, but since it didn't perceive a threat before this, it is surprised and unable to act on this. Nevertheless, X had particularly good reaction time (represented by the high initiative) and quickly recovers from its surprise. Now it's prepared for the attack.

B then gets their turn. Whether they're jumping the gun, noticed the quick recovery of X, or decide to ready an action according to the plan, they still got higher initiative than A and so are just a little bit faster to respond to unfolding events.

Now it's A's turn. At this point, A might know that their plan has been foiled, and that the surprise is lost. They might also be aware that B was just a little bit quicker to pick up on this and react accordingly. Regardless, all of this happened in the mere moments between A deciding to attack and A actually attacking, since all of this is happening at about the same time.

My own experience with this approach

I've used this approach before, though not always with surprise in play. In fact, one situation was almost exactly like the one you've described in every other way.

Player A initiates combat by attacking. Player B gets the highest on initiative, monster X goes second, and Player A goes last. So, I explained it by saying that, though A begins his attack, monster X is ready for this and acts faster. Player B sees this and manages to act even faster than X, and ends up going first.

I compressed the next few actions narratively into a couple of moments of who can react the fastest (since the round is "about" six seconds), and it made a pretty neat narrative sequence that left both players excited, rather than player A feeling cheated out of a cool moment.

Where surprise is in effect, I've explained it by saying that X hesitates before acting as they have to figure out what's going on, but they just recover and collect themselves faster than the other lower initiative monsters do. If X goes before the party, then I just say that as the party begins to act, X becomes aware of them and, though surprised, quickly recovers and reacts.

This generally has had the effect of making my players' enemies feel competent, rather than leaving the players robbed of their moment.

Obviously you don't have to play this way.

But if you want to use RAW in regard to surprise, and you don't want to steal your players' thunder while you're at it, this is a good way to do it.

The issue I see in this scenario is that one player broadcasted their intent ahead of their turn, and the other did not, so the narrative only seems unusual because the decision of what's happening in the ambush was only partially made outside the context of turn order.

To resummarize my understanding of the narrative, A stated they wished to take a combat action, so the DM dropped into initiative to manage the situation. At this point, A's statement of wanting to throw the dagger at X is basically just a statement of intent, not something that has been 'locked in'/happened yet.

X went first (doing nothing but no longer being surprised), so narratively they may have noticed something was happening at the last split second and are no longer completely unaware (can react, etc.).

The perceived conflict at this point is due to B taking an action they did not state before combat began. There's nothing inherently wrong with that- maybe they simply didn't get a chance to, as A was leading the narrative at the time or something along those lines. However, if their intent was to act after A threw their dagger, B should have readied their action with that event as the trigger.

I would suggest that the DM should assist in preventing these conflicts in one of two ways:

1) Highlight the fact that A's proposed course of action caused initiative order to start, but has not happened yet: "Ok, A wants to throw a dagger at X, so let's roll initiative to manage this ambush. Ok, B, you're up before A- as you're closing on in X, you see A looking like they're pulling back to throw a dagger, what do you do?"

2) Make sure everyone states what their proposed course of action for the ambush is before entering initiative, so there's a more full image of the plan before people's turns happen and that conflict between planned and actual narrative doesn't exist: "Ok, A wants to throw a dagger at X. B, you're also closing in on X, what are you trying to do? Are you waiting to see what happens with A's throw, or are you also attacking now? [...] Ok then, let's roll initiative."