Little Lost RobotRobot Long and Robot HighAn Unfamiliar Day in the LifeMusical message from a long-lost...

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Little Lost Robot


Robot Long and Robot HighAn Unfamiliar Day in the LifeMusical message from a long-lost uncleRobot Dan and IThe Death Of An AngelAn unknown message from an unknown worldA Space Station 13 tricky situationLittle Pictures: Charlie's Lunch EditionA Space Station 13 malfunctioning A.ICharlotte's lost fish






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







5












$begingroup$


This puzzle is adapted from Isaac Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947). For anyone familiar with the story, you will note I have changed many details for sake of brevity (This also means the story's actual solution may not be the best fit).



Robots in Isaac Asimov stories have an artificial intelligence that is kept in check with three "laws" that are at the core of their programming:




  • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm

  • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law

  • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws


There was a military research station that used a number of robots. The research involved gamma radiation. Given the strength of this radiation, it was decided that a human could be safely exposed to it for long as 30 minutes, but a robot's positronic brain would almost certainly be destroyed in less than a minute in that environment.



The robots, upon observing that a human had been in the contaminated zone for a while, would conclude that the human may be confused or complacent and may overstay their allotted 30 minute window. The first law outranks the third law, and so the nearby robots would run into the gamma radiation to try and "save" the human, even though they themselves almost certainly wouldn't survive the ordeal. Many robots were destroyed as a result, and no arguments would convince the robots to not take the risk. Even though the human risk was minute, they are more than willing to die protecting them. Not even commanding them to stay put could work, as the first law is above the second.



The lead researcher of the station decided to take a drastic step to correct this problem. He had the robot's programming modified such that the first law was now "A robot may not injure a human being" and omitting the inaction part. Now, in theory, the robots could ignore humans left in the radiation zone, even if they had been there for much longer than 30 minutes.



A few days later, a frustrated researcher told one of the (now modified) robots to "Get Lost!", not intending the robot to take the phrase literally. It became evident that the robot did interpret that as a command because after a search nobody could find it. The lead researcher, upon finding out, became concerned. If a robot, whose 1st law was modified, went out into the world and possibly let a human die through their inaction, it could be traced back to him and he would surely go to jail. The lead researcher ordered the station into lockdown and called the best team possible to help save his him from this problem.



This is where you, a robot detective, come in. Arriving at the research station, you looked for clues. Eventually, you found something. A cargo ship arrived the same day that the robot became lost (it was still docked because the whole facility was on lockdown). The cargo manifest was for 62 robots; all replacements for the ones lost earlier that week. There are, however, 63 robots in the cargo hold, all currently in sleep mode.



You switch the robots on one at a time and question them. All 63 claim to have been shipped direct from the factory and have no knowledge of this facility or which robot among them is the imposter. The "lost" robot has apparently chosen to follow the "Get Lost!" command above any command you could give.



The robots are physically identical, and the positronic brain is too complicated to analyze for differences. The "lost" robot is trying to not be found out, and will try to act exactly as though it is one of the newly built robots.




What can you do to identify the missing robot from the 63 robots?




Clarification Edit: The Asimov story has something of a reason for why the lost robot chooses to follow the "Get Lost" order above all other orders, but I skipped over it. From its perspective, it will do practically anything to not be caught. If you order the robot to do something, it will try to follow along in the spirit of being indistinguishable from the others. It is hiding "in plain sight" so to speak.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
    $endgroup$
    – Duck
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    3 hours ago


















5












$begingroup$


This puzzle is adapted from Isaac Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947). For anyone familiar with the story, you will note I have changed many details for sake of brevity (This also means the story's actual solution may not be the best fit).



Robots in Isaac Asimov stories have an artificial intelligence that is kept in check with three "laws" that are at the core of their programming:




  • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm

  • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law

  • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws


There was a military research station that used a number of robots. The research involved gamma radiation. Given the strength of this radiation, it was decided that a human could be safely exposed to it for long as 30 minutes, but a robot's positronic brain would almost certainly be destroyed in less than a minute in that environment.



The robots, upon observing that a human had been in the contaminated zone for a while, would conclude that the human may be confused or complacent and may overstay their allotted 30 minute window. The first law outranks the third law, and so the nearby robots would run into the gamma radiation to try and "save" the human, even though they themselves almost certainly wouldn't survive the ordeal. Many robots were destroyed as a result, and no arguments would convince the robots to not take the risk. Even though the human risk was minute, they are more than willing to die protecting them. Not even commanding them to stay put could work, as the first law is above the second.



The lead researcher of the station decided to take a drastic step to correct this problem. He had the robot's programming modified such that the first law was now "A robot may not injure a human being" and omitting the inaction part. Now, in theory, the robots could ignore humans left in the radiation zone, even if they had been there for much longer than 30 minutes.



A few days later, a frustrated researcher told one of the (now modified) robots to "Get Lost!", not intending the robot to take the phrase literally. It became evident that the robot did interpret that as a command because after a search nobody could find it. The lead researcher, upon finding out, became concerned. If a robot, whose 1st law was modified, went out into the world and possibly let a human die through their inaction, it could be traced back to him and he would surely go to jail. The lead researcher ordered the station into lockdown and called the best team possible to help save his him from this problem.



This is where you, a robot detective, come in. Arriving at the research station, you looked for clues. Eventually, you found something. A cargo ship arrived the same day that the robot became lost (it was still docked because the whole facility was on lockdown). The cargo manifest was for 62 robots; all replacements for the ones lost earlier that week. There are, however, 63 robots in the cargo hold, all currently in sleep mode.



You switch the robots on one at a time and question them. All 63 claim to have been shipped direct from the factory and have no knowledge of this facility or which robot among them is the imposter. The "lost" robot has apparently chosen to follow the "Get Lost!" command above any command you could give.



The robots are physically identical, and the positronic brain is too complicated to analyze for differences. The "lost" robot is trying to not be found out, and will try to act exactly as though it is one of the newly built robots.




What can you do to identify the missing robot from the 63 robots?




Clarification Edit: The Asimov story has something of a reason for why the lost robot chooses to follow the "Get Lost" order above all other orders, but I skipped over it. From its perspective, it will do practically anything to not be caught. If you order the robot to do something, it will try to follow along in the spirit of being indistinguishable from the others. It is hiding "in plain sight" so to speak.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$














  • $begingroup$
    This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
    $endgroup$
    – Duck
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    3 hours ago














5












5








5


2



$begingroup$


This puzzle is adapted from Isaac Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947). For anyone familiar with the story, you will note I have changed many details for sake of brevity (This also means the story's actual solution may not be the best fit).



Robots in Isaac Asimov stories have an artificial intelligence that is kept in check with three "laws" that are at the core of their programming:




  • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm

  • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law

  • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws


There was a military research station that used a number of robots. The research involved gamma radiation. Given the strength of this radiation, it was decided that a human could be safely exposed to it for long as 30 minutes, but a robot's positronic brain would almost certainly be destroyed in less than a minute in that environment.



The robots, upon observing that a human had been in the contaminated zone for a while, would conclude that the human may be confused or complacent and may overstay their allotted 30 minute window. The first law outranks the third law, and so the nearby robots would run into the gamma radiation to try and "save" the human, even though they themselves almost certainly wouldn't survive the ordeal. Many robots were destroyed as a result, and no arguments would convince the robots to not take the risk. Even though the human risk was minute, they are more than willing to die protecting them. Not even commanding them to stay put could work, as the first law is above the second.



The lead researcher of the station decided to take a drastic step to correct this problem. He had the robot's programming modified such that the first law was now "A robot may not injure a human being" and omitting the inaction part. Now, in theory, the robots could ignore humans left in the radiation zone, even if they had been there for much longer than 30 minutes.



A few days later, a frustrated researcher told one of the (now modified) robots to "Get Lost!", not intending the robot to take the phrase literally. It became evident that the robot did interpret that as a command because after a search nobody could find it. The lead researcher, upon finding out, became concerned. If a robot, whose 1st law was modified, went out into the world and possibly let a human die through their inaction, it could be traced back to him and he would surely go to jail. The lead researcher ordered the station into lockdown and called the best team possible to help save his him from this problem.



This is where you, a robot detective, come in. Arriving at the research station, you looked for clues. Eventually, you found something. A cargo ship arrived the same day that the robot became lost (it was still docked because the whole facility was on lockdown). The cargo manifest was for 62 robots; all replacements for the ones lost earlier that week. There are, however, 63 robots in the cargo hold, all currently in sleep mode.



You switch the robots on one at a time and question them. All 63 claim to have been shipped direct from the factory and have no knowledge of this facility or which robot among them is the imposter. The "lost" robot has apparently chosen to follow the "Get Lost!" command above any command you could give.



The robots are physically identical, and the positronic brain is too complicated to analyze for differences. The "lost" robot is trying to not be found out, and will try to act exactly as though it is one of the newly built robots.




What can you do to identify the missing robot from the 63 robots?




Clarification Edit: The Asimov story has something of a reason for why the lost robot chooses to follow the "Get Lost" order above all other orders, but I skipped over it. From its perspective, it will do practically anything to not be caught. If you order the robot to do something, it will try to follow along in the spirit of being indistinguishable from the others. It is hiding "in plain sight" so to speak.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




This puzzle is adapted from Isaac Asimov's short story Little Lost Robot (1947). For anyone familiar with the story, you will note I have changed many details for sake of brevity (This also means the story's actual solution may not be the best fit).



Robots in Isaac Asimov stories have an artificial intelligence that is kept in check with three "laws" that are at the core of their programming:




  • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm

  • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law

  • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws


There was a military research station that used a number of robots. The research involved gamma radiation. Given the strength of this radiation, it was decided that a human could be safely exposed to it for long as 30 minutes, but a robot's positronic brain would almost certainly be destroyed in less than a minute in that environment.



The robots, upon observing that a human had been in the contaminated zone for a while, would conclude that the human may be confused or complacent and may overstay their allotted 30 minute window. The first law outranks the third law, and so the nearby robots would run into the gamma radiation to try and "save" the human, even though they themselves almost certainly wouldn't survive the ordeal. Many robots were destroyed as a result, and no arguments would convince the robots to not take the risk. Even though the human risk was minute, they are more than willing to die protecting them. Not even commanding them to stay put could work, as the first law is above the second.



The lead researcher of the station decided to take a drastic step to correct this problem. He had the robot's programming modified such that the first law was now "A robot may not injure a human being" and omitting the inaction part. Now, in theory, the robots could ignore humans left in the radiation zone, even if they had been there for much longer than 30 minutes.



A few days later, a frustrated researcher told one of the (now modified) robots to "Get Lost!", not intending the robot to take the phrase literally. It became evident that the robot did interpret that as a command because after a search nobody could find it. The lead researcher, upon finding out, became concerned. If a robot, whose 1st law was modified, went out into the world and possibly let a human die through their inaction, it could be traced back to him and he would surely go to jail. The lead researcher ordered the station into lockdown and called the best team possible to help save his him from this problem.



This is where you, a robot detective, come in. Arriving at the research station, you looked for clues. Eventually, you found something. A cargo ship arrived the same day that the robot became lost (it was still docked because the whole facility was on lockdown). The cargo manifest was for 62 robots; all replacements for the ones lost earlier that week. There are, however, 63 robots in the cargo hold, all currently in sleep mode.



You switch the robots on one at a time and question them. All 63 claim to have been shipped direct from the factory and have no knowledge of this facility or which robot among them is the imposter. The "lost" robot has apparently chosen to follow the "Get Lost!" command above any command you could give.



The robots are physically identical, and the positronic brain is too complicated to analyze for differences. The "lost" robot is trying to not be found out, and will try to act exactly as though it is one of the newly built robots.




What can you do to identify the missing robot from the 63 robots?




Clarification Edit: The Asimov story has something of a reason for why the lost robot chooses to follow the "Get Lost" order above all other orders, but I skipped over it. From its perspective, it will do practically anything to not be caught. If you order the robot to do something, it will try to follow along in the spirit of being indistinguishable from the others. It is hiding "in plain sight" so to speak.







story






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago







Dark Thunder

















asked 9 hours ago









Dark ThunderDark Thunder

2,3975 silver badges25 bronze badges




2,3975 silver badges25 bronze badges















  • $begingroup$
    This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
    $endgroup$
    – Duck
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    3 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
    $endgroup$
    – Duck
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
    $endgroup$
    – im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
    3 hours ago
















$begingroup$
This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
$endgroup$
– Duck
9 hours ago






$begingroup$
This is one of my favorite puzzles now! Thank you for the puzzle!
$endgroup$
– Duck
9 hours ago














$begingroup$
Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
$endgroup$
– Dark Thunder
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thank Isaac Asimov. I posted this because I just happened to think about how confused I was when I read that 15 years ago, and so I read it again. I was still kind of confused, actually. I know I didn't do it justice, but maybe that will convince somebody to pick up "I, Robot"
$endgroup$
– Dark Thunder
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
$endgroup$
– im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why does the story's solution not work? Am confused...
$endgroup$
– im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
$endgroup$
– Dark Thunder
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
@im_so_meta_even_this_acronym I've changed certain details, so copy-pasting the paragraphs from the story wouldn't actually be a good answer.
$endgroup$
– Dark Thunder
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
$endgroup$
– im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
But the solution's main idea still works, right? (Not that I'm going to put it here as an answer of course, but just wondering)
$endgroup$
– im_so_meta_even_this_acronym
3 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$


Order all robots to stay put and walk into the radiation zone. Robots whose first rule overrides your command will follow you, whereas the "lost" robot cannot follow you without breaking its second rule.







share|improve this answer









$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
    $endgroup$
    – jafe
    8 hours ago





















3












$begingroup$


We need to get the altered robot to differentiate itself, and the only differences in its programming are (1) it is willing to be inactive while a human is harmed, and (2) it responds to any orders you give it in the same way that an unaltered robot would. So we can't use The Second Law to order it into inaction.




But,




We can use The Third Law to force it into inaction. Tell each robot "If you don't sit idly by while I slap myself in the face, you will be destroyed." You aren't giving it a command, so the "Get Lost" override shouldn't kick in. Unaltered robots will be bound by The First Law and stop you. The altered robot will be forced to preserve its own existence by letting you slap yourself.







share|improve this answer








New contributor



hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    7 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

Could you




enter the contaminated zone and hang out for a while? The new robots would have the original rule, so they would all try and save you, where the "lost one" would do nothing.







share|improve this answer









$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    9 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

In my humble opinion, maybe that's an idea for an answer:




Maybe you take the whole robot apart and tell it: If you were told to get lost in the past - now get lost again,
And right after that, you put him in a closed room (and with cameras so you can see his action) full of belongings and closets, which can be hidden inside.
If Robot hasn't been told before, he won't do anything.
But if he was told so in the past he would have to hide among the objects because getting lost is a command he must carry over all the rest.(Even if he wants to keep track of what the other bots are doing, he won't be able to because this command comes first)







share|improve this answer











$endgroup$


















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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3












    $begingroup$


    Order all robots to stay put and walk into the radiation zone. Robots whose first rule overrides your command will follow you, whereas the "lost" robot cannot follow you without breaking its second rule.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
      $endgroup$
      – jafe
      8 hours ago


















    3












    $begingroup$


    Order all robots to stay put and walk into the radiation zone. Robots whose first rule overrides your command will follow you, whereas the "lost" robot cannot follow you without breaking its second rule.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
      $endgroup$
      – jafe
      8 hours ago
















    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$


    Order all robots to stay put and walk into the radiation zone. Robots whose first rule overrides your command will follow you, whereas the "lost" robot cannot follow you without breaking its second rule.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




    Order all robots to stay put and walk into the radiation zone. Robots whose first rule overrides your command will follow you, whereas the "lost" robot cannot follow you without breaking its second rule.








    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 9 hours ago









    jafejafe

    34.4k5 gold badges95 silver badges344 bronze badges




    34.4k5 gold badges95 silver badges344 bronze badges















    • $begingroup$
      I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
      $endgroup$
      – jafe
      8 hours ago




















    • $begingroup$
      I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
      $endgroup$
      – jafe
      8 hours ago


















    $begingroup$
    I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I added a clarification that I'm hoping will help? I'm very much open to ideas outside the one in the book, but I'm worried you're misinterpreting the robot's motivations in this. His idea of staying "lost" is being indistinguishable from the others. I'll be the first to admit the book did it better.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
    $endgroup$
    – jafe
    8 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    @DarkThunder Ah, I see. It considers it would be breaking rule 2 by getting caught, so in this case it would just follow the others despite the later order.
    $endgroup$
    – jafe
    8 hours ago















    3












    $begingroup$


    We need to get the altered robot to differentiate itself, and the only differences in its programming are (1) it is willing to be inactive while a human is harmed, and (2) it responds to any orders you give it in the same way that an unaltered robot would. So we can't use The Second Law to order it into inaction.




    But,




    We can use The Third Law to force it into inaction. Tell each robot "If you don't sit idly by while I slap myself in the face, you will be destroyed." You aren't giving it a command, so the "Get Lost" override shouldn't kick in. Unaltered robots will be bound by The First Law and stop you. The altered robot will be forced to preserve its own existence by letting you slap yourself.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
      $endgroup$
      – hdsdv
      7 hours ago
















    3












    $begingroup$


    We need to get the altered robot to differentiate itself, and the only differences in its programming are (1) it is willing to be inactive while a human is harmed, and (2) it responds to any orders you give it in the same way that an unaltered robot would. So we can't use The Second Law to order it into inaction.




    But,




    We can use The Third Law to force it into inaction. Tell each robot "If you don't sit idly by while I slap myself in the face, you will be destroyed." You aren't giving it a command, so the "Get Lost" override shouldn't kick in. Unaltered robots will be bound by The First Law and stop you. The altered robot will be forced to preserve its own existence by letting you slap yourself.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
      $endgroup$
      – hdsdv
      7 hours ago














    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$


    We need to get the altered robot to differentiate itself, and the only differences in its programming are (1) it is willing to be inactive while a human is harmed, and (2) it responds to any orders you give it in the same way that an unaltered robot would. So we can't use The Second Law to order it into inaction.




    But,




    We can use The Third Law to force it into inaction. Tell each robot "If you don't sit idly by while I slap myself in the face, you will be destroyed." You aren't giving it a command, so the "Get Lost" override shouldn't kick in. Unaltered robots will be bound by The First Law and stop you. The altered robot will be forced to preserve its own existence by letting you slap yourself.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    $endgroup$




    We need to get the altered robot to differentiate itself, and the only differences in its programming are (1) it is willing to be inactive while a human is harmed, and (2) it responds to any orders you give it in the same way that an unaltered robot would. So we can't use The Second Law to order it into inaction.




    But,




    We can use The Third Law to force it into inaction. Tell each robot "If you don't sit idly by while I slap myself in the face, you will be destroyed." You aren't giving it a command, so the "Get Lost" override shouldn't kick in. Unaltered robots will be bound by The First Law and stop you. The altered robot will be forced to preserve its own existence by letting you slap yourself.








    share|improve this answer








    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer






    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    answered 9 hours ago









    hdsdvhdsdv

    663 bronze badges




    663 bronze badges




    New contributor



    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.




    New contributor




    hdsdv is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.

















    • $begingroup$
      It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
      $endgroup$
      – hdsdv
      7 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      8 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
      $endgroup$
      – hdsdv
      7 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    It seems to me that you haven't given a reason the lost robot couldn't just behave like the others. I added a clarification that maybe helps?
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    8 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I think I did give a reason - self-preservation. If you are saying that the "Get Lost" directive supersedes The Laws, then it's probably worth saying so explicitly. As written, the "Get Lost" order only supersedes "any order I give". Including in your clarification, I'm afraid.
    $endgroup$
    – hdsdv
    7 hours ago











    1












    $begingroup$

    Could you




    enter the contaminated zone and hang out for a while? The new robots would have the original rule, so they would all try and save you, where the "lost one" would do nothing.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      9 hours ago
















    1












    $begingroup$

    Could you




    enter the contaminated zone and hang out for a while? The new robots would have the original rule, so they would all try and save you, where the "lost one" would do nothing.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$















    • $begingroup$
      But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      9 hours ago














    1












    1








    1





    $begingroup$

    Could you




    enter the contaminated zone and hang out for a while? The new robots would have the original rule, so they would all try and save you, where the "lost one" would do nothing.







    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Could you




    enter the contaminated zone and hang out for a while? The new robots would have the original rule, so they would all try and save you, where the "lost one" would do nothing.








    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 9 hours ago









    PartyHatPandaPartyHatPanda

    1,5926 silver badges20 bronze badges




    1,5926 silver badges20 bronze badges















    • $begingroup$
      But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      9 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
      $endgroup$
      – Dark Thunder
      9 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    9 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    But the lost robot knows that, and would try to save you. The rule doesn't stop him from saving humans.
    $endgroup$
    – Dark Thunder
    9 hours ago











    1












    $begingroup$

    In my humble opinion, maybe that's an idea for an answer:




    Maybe you take the whole robot apart and tell it: If you were told to get lost in the past - now get lost again,
    And right after that, you put him in a closed room (and with cameras so you can see his action) full of belongings and closets, which can be hidden inside.
    If Robot hasn't been told before, he won't do anything.
    But if he was told so in the past he would have to hide among the objects because getting lost is a command he must carry over all the rest.(Even if he wants to keep track of what the other bots are doing, he won't be able to because this command comes first)







    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      1












      $begingroup$

      In my humble opinion, maybe that's an idea for an answer:




      Maybe you take the whole robot apart and tell it: If you were told to get lost in the past - now get lost again,
      And right after that, you put him in a closed room (and with cameras so you can see his action) full of belongings and closets, which can be hidden inside.
      If Robot hasn't been told before, he won't do anything.
      But if he was told so in the past he would have to hide among the objects because getting lost is a command he must carry over all the rest.(Even if he wants to keep track of what the other bots are doing, he won't be able to because this command comes first)







      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        In my humble opinion, maybe that's an idea for an answer:




        Maybe you take the whole robot apart and tell it: If you were told to get lost in the past - now get lost again,
        And right after that, you put him in a closed room (and with cameras so you can see his action) full of belongings and closets, which can be hidden inside.
        If Robot hasn't been told before, he won't do anything.
        But if he was told so in the past he would have to hide among the objects because getting lost is a command he must carry over all the rest.(Even if he wants to keep track of what the other bots are doing, he won't be able to because this command comes first)







        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        In my humble opinion, maybe that's an idea for an answer:




        Maybe you take the whole robot apart and tell it: If you were told to get lost in the past - now get lost again,
        And right after that, you put him in a closed room (and with cameras so you can see his action) full of belongings and closets, which can be hidden inside.
        If Robot hasn't been told before, he won't do anything.
        But if he was told so in the past he would have to hide among the objects because getting lost is a command he must carry over all the rest.(Even if he wants to keep track of what the other bots are doing, he won't be able to because this command comes first)








        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 6 hours ago

























        answered 6 hours ago









        TahelTahel

        91914 bronze badges




        91914 bronze badges

































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