Atmospheric methane to carbon [on hold]Free Radical Reaction of Methane and ChlorineIs a carbon-fluorine bond...

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Atmospheric methane to carbon [on hold]


Free Radical Reaction of Methane and ChlorineIs a carbon-fluorine bond stronger than a carbon-chlorine bond?Which singlet dihalocarbene has the strongest carbon-halogen bond?Carbon tetraradicalDoes presence of alkyl groups on alpha carbon increase yield of alkane in Kolbe's Decarboxylation?






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}







5












$begingroup$


I read an article by popsci that talked about huge fans forcing methane over a catalyst.



Now that got me wondering, can't we produce hydroxyl radicals with powerfull uv lasers blasting the sky, creating more hydroxyl radicals to break down the methane.



Would this be effective enough to help create enough hydroxyl radicals to help break down methane or would it be a waste of energy against too small an offset?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




put on hold as too broad by Mithoron, Mathew Mahindaratne, Jon Custer, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.















  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago




















5












$begingroup$


I read an article by popsci that talked about huge fans forcing methane over a catalyst.



Now that got me wondering, can't we produce hydroxyl radicals with powerfull uv lasers blasting the sky, creating more hydroxyl radicals to break down the methane.



Would this be effective enough to help create enough hydroxyl radicals to help break down methane or would it be a waste of energy against too small an offset?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




put on hold as too broad by Mithoron, Mathew Mahindaratne, Jon Custer, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.















  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago
















5












5








5





$begingroup$


I read an article by popsci that talked about huge fans forcing methane over a catalyst.



Now that got me wondering, can't we produce hydroxyl radicals with powerfull uv lasers blasting the sky, creating more hydroxyl radicals to break down the methane.



Would this be effective enough to help create enough hydroxyl radicals to help break down methane or would it be a waste of energy against too small an offset?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




I read an article by popsci that talked about huge fans forcing methane over a catalyst.



Now that got me wondering, can't we produce hydroxyl radicals with powerfull uv lasers blasting the sky, creating more hydroxyl radicals to break down the methane.



Would this be effective enough to help create enough hydroxyl radicals to help break down methane or would it be a waste of energy against too small an offset?







radicals






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 2 days ago









TschallackaTschallacka

1484 bronze badges




1484 bronze badges





put on hold as too broad by Mithoron, Mathew Mahindaratne, Jon Custer, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.











put on hold as too broad by Mithoron, Mathew Mahindaratne, Jon Custer, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.









put on hold as too broad by Mithoron, Mathew Mahindaratne, Jon Custer, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius yesterday


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.










  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago
















  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










2




2




$begingroup$
It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago






$begingroup$
It's kinda mean to insta-fry unsuspecting birds and bats. ;-)
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago






4




4




$begingroup$
Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago






$begingroup$
Arising questions: a) How much methane is in the atmosphere, b) how effective is a hydroxyl radical in destroying methane, c) how effectively can we produce them, d) can we actually increase the local concentration, e) how long does the effect last, f) does it make sense to e.g. increase the concentration overnight? If you have all that info, it's easy to put the numbers together and make a business case for it.
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

It would be a total waste of energy.



Remember that the Sun is sending orders of magnitude more energy than humanity can produce. A significant fraction of that is UV, so the Sun is already breaking up more Methane than humanity could do by adding laser diodes or whatnot.



We might be able to do more at the ground, where the Sun's UV is mostly filtered.

It would still be an enormous feat to merely reach the Sun's UV level.



However, there is a big reason NOT to do it at the ground: UV does not only break up methane, but also oxygen. Part of that will recombine to ozone, which is an irritant (in the medical sense, i.e. extended-time exposure will cause damage no matter what).

(I do not know whether the oxygen bonds are stronger or weaker than the methane bonds. If methane has the weaker bonds, one could use an UV wavelength below the oxygen energy. You'd still break up bonds of any atmospheric molecule that has weaker bonds than methane, such as pheromones and whatnot; it is entirely unclear what consequences that would have.)






share|improve this answer








New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday



















3












$begingroup$

Powerful ground lasers are surely inefficient. The radicals are created in close proximity, meaning they likely have a good chance to recombine. Also highpower lasers (or any strong light source) are generally not very efficient. A lot of small ones would be better.



I would mount simple UV LEDs on the underside of passenger planes, where they are switched on to illuminate clouds at night (there is no sense in doing it during daytime, obviously). If that's enough to lift the project over the "waste of time and energy" limit, I'm not so sure.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
    $endgroup$
    – Tschallacka
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
    $endgroup$
    – immibis
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday




















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4












$begingroup$

It would be a total waste of energy.



Remember that the Sun is sending orders of magnitude more energy than humanity can produce. A significant fraction of that is UV, so the Sun is already breaking up more Methane than humanity could do by adding laser diodes or whatnot.



We might be able to do more at the ground, where the Sun's UV is mostly filtered.

It would still be an enormous feat to merely reach the Sun's UV level.



However, there is a big reason NOT to do it at the ground: UV does not only break up methane, but also oxygen. Part of that will recombine to ozone, which is an irritant (in the medical sense, i.e. extended-time exposure will cause damage no matter what).

(I do not know whether the oxygen bonds are stronger or weaker than the methane bonds. If methane has the weaker bonds, one could use an UV wavelength below the oxygen energy. You'd still break up bonds of any atmospheric molecule that has weaker bonds than methane, such as pheromones and whatnot; it is entirely unclear what consequences that would have.)






share|improve this answer








New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday
















4












$begingroup$

It would be a total waste of energy.



Remember that the Sun is sending orders of magnitude more energy than humanity can produce. A significant fraction of that is UV, so the Sun is already breaking up more Methane than humanity could do by adding laser diodes or whatnot.



We might be able to do more at the ground, where the Sun's UV is mostly filtered.

It would still be an enormous feat to merely reach the Sun's UV level.



However, there is a big reason NOT to do it at the ground: UV does not only break up methane, but also oxygen. Part of that will recombine to ozone, which is an irritant (in the medical sense, i.e. extended-time exposure will cause damage no matter what).

(I do not know whether the oxygen bonds are stronger or weaker than the methane bonds. If methane has the weaker bonds, one could use an UV wavelength below the oxygen energy. You'd still break up bonds of any atmospheric molecule that has weaker bonds than methane, such as pheromones and whatnot; it is entirely unclear what consequences that would have.)






share|improve this answer








New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday














4












4








4





$begingroup$

It would be a total waste of energy.



Remember that the Sun is sending orders of magnitude more energy than humanity can produce. A significant fraction of that is UV, so the Sun is already breaking up more Methane than humanity could do by adding laser diodes or whatnot.



We might be able to do more at the ground, where the Sun's UV is mostly filtered.

It would still be an enormous feat to merely reach the Sun's UV level.



However, there is a big reason NOT to do it at the ground: UV does not only break up methane, but also oxygen. Part of that will recombine to ozone, which is an irritant (in the medical sense, i.e. extended-time exposure will cause damage no matter what).

(I do not know whether the oxygen bonds are stronger or weaker than the methane bonds. If methane has the weaker bonds, one could use an UV wavelength below the oxygen energy. You'd still break up bonds of any atmospheric molecule that has weaker bonds than methane, such as pheromones and whatnot; it is entirely unclear what consequences that would have.)






share|improve this answer








New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





$endgroup$



It would be a total waste of energy.



Remember that the Sun is sending orders of magnitude more energy than humanity can produce. A significant fraction of that is UV, so the Sun is already breaking up more Methane than humanity could do by adding laser diodes or whatnot.



We might be able to do more at the ground, where the Sun's UV is mostly filtered.

It would still be an enormous feat to merely reach the Sun's UV level.



However, there is a big reason NOT to do it at the ground: UV does not only break up methane, but also oxygen. Part of that will recombine to ozone, which is an irritant (in the medical sense, i.e. extended-time exposure will cause damage no matter what).

(I do not know whether the oxygen bonds are stronger or weaker than the methane bonds. If methane has the weaker bonds, one could use an UV wavelength below the oxygen energy. You'd still break up bonds of any atmospheric molecule that has weaker bonds than methane, such as pheromones and whatnot; it is entirely unclear what consequences that would have.)







share|improve this answer








New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








answered 2 days ago









toolforgertoolforger

1411 bronze badge




1411 bronze badge




New contributor



toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




toolforger is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • $begingroup$
    The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday


















  • $begingroup$
    The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday
















$begingroup$
The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday




$begingroup$
The ozone argument isnt really one: Hydroxyl radicals are made via singlett oxygen, which is also resonsible for ozone generation. As long as your artificial light source is less intense than the sun, it wont create unhealthy ozone levels. Of course it likely also wont make enough hydroxyls to make a difference. ;)
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday













3












$begingroup$

Powerful ground lasers are surely inefficient. The radicals are created in close proximity, meaning they likely have a good chance to recombine. Also highpower lasers (or any strong light source) are generally not very efficient. A lot of small ones would be better.



I would mount simple UV LEDs on the underside of passenger planes, where they are switched on to illuminate clouds at night (there is no sense in doing it during daytime, obviously). If that's enough to lift the project over the "waste of time and energy" limit, I'm not so sure.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
    $endgroup$
    – Tschallacka
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
    $endgroup$
    – immibis
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday
















3












$begingroup$

Powerful ground lasers are surely inefficient. The radicals are created in close proximity, meaning they likely have a good chance to recombine. Also highpower lasers (or any strong light source) are generally not very efficient. A lot of small ones would be better.



I would mount simple UV LEDs on the underside of passenger planes, where they are switched on to illuminate clouds at night (there is no sense in doing it during daytime, obviously). If that's enough to lift the project over the "waste of time and energy" limit, I'm not so sure.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
    $endgroup$
    – Tschallacka
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
    $endgroup$
    – immibis
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday














3












3








3





$begingroup$

Powerful ground lasers are surely inefficient. The radicals are created in close proximity, meaning they likely have a good chance to recombine. Also highpower lasers (or any strong light source) are generally not very efficient. A lot of small ones would be better.



I would mount simple UV LEDs on the underside of passenger planes, where they are switched on to illuminate clouds at night (there is no sense in doing it during daytime, obviously). If that's enough to lift the project over the "waste of time and energy" limit, I'm not so sure.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Powerful ground lasers are surely inefficient. The radicals are created in close proximity, meaning they likely have a good chance to recombine. Also highpower lasers (or any strong light source) are generally not very efficient. A lot of small ones would be better.



I would mount simple UV LEDs on the underside of passenger planes, where they are switched on to illuminate clouds at night (there is no sense in doing it during daytime, obviously). If that's enough to lift the project over the "waste of time and energy" limit, I'm not so sure.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered 2 days ago









KarlKarl

6,92415 silver badges36 bronze badges




6,92415 silver badges36 bronze badges















  • $begingroup$
    So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
    $endgroup$
    – Tschallacka
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
    $endgroup$
    – immibis
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday


















  • $begingroup$
    So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
    $endgroup$
    – Tschallacka
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
    $endgroup$
    – immibis
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl
    yesterday
















$begingroup$
So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
$endgroup$
– Tschallacka
2 days ago




$begingroup$
So if you would take a couple of those superlong solar powered self flying planes and patch them up with uv leds you could have a sustainable solution?
$endgroup$
– Tschallacka
2 days ago












$begingroup$
@Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago




$begingroup$
@Tschallacka No. You just make it mandatory for all planes landing in US or EU to have those and present a usage log. A kilowatt or two of electricity are basically free on a jet airplane. Much better scaleability.
$endgroup$
– Karl
2 days ago












$begingroup$
At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
$endgroup$
– immibis
2 days ago




$begingroup$
At the risk of sounding too obvious, doesn't the sun already illuminate clouds with UV?
$endgroup$
– immibis
2 days ago












$begingroup$
@immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday




$begingroup$
@immibis Well, only during the day. But you're right. The underside of clouds is likely the only place where this might possibly make sense.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday



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