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Capacitors with same voltage, same capacitance, same temp, different diameter?

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1

$begingroup$

I recently had an old LCD monitor power supply go bad and figured I would try replacing the caps, all four of these were bulged and or leaking. They are all rated to 105 degrees C, all 1000uF and 25V yet two of them are much higher diameter. In my experience with a physically larger capacitor, you either get more voltage (more plate separation?) or more capacitance (more plates?), why are these caps different diameter?

Side question, the board had more than enough space for the larger caps everywhere, why not use the large (or small) caps everywhere for higher quantity discounts.

capacitor

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

Sam

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The 'C' ratings are different?
  $endgroup$
  – Soldersmoke
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Im pretty sure the 'C' is a model number
  $endgroup$
  – Sam
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The two in the middle look fine. The lower one is bad (bulged.) Can't see enough of the top one to say.
  $endgroup$
  – JRE
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @jre the middle two were leaking, that being said, the board didn't work until i replaced all 4
  $endgroup$
  – Sam
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  If by "leaking" you mean the white stuff, then you should know that the white stuff is glue and didn't come out of those capacitors.
  $endgroup$
  – JRE
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

1

$begingroup$

I recently had an old LCD monitor power supply go bad and figured I would try replacing the caps, all four of these were bulged and or leaking. They are all rated to 105 degrees C, all 1000uF and 25V yet two of them are much higher diameter. In my experience with a physically larger capacitor, you either get more voltage (more plate separation?) or more capacitance (more plates?), why are these caps different diameter?

Side question, the board had more than enough space for the larger caps everywhere, why not use the large (or small) caps everywhere for higher quantity discounts.

capacitor

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

Sam

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The 'C' ratings are different?
  $endgroup$
  – Soldersmoke
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Im pretty sure the 'C' is a model number
  $endgroup$
  – Sam
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The two in the middle look fine. The lower one is bad (bulged.) Can't see enough of the top one to say.
  $endgroup$
  – JRE
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @jre the middle two were leaking, that being said, the board didn't work until i replaced all 4
  $endgroup$
  – Sam
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  If by "leaking" you mean the white stuff, then you should know that the white stuff is glue and didn't come out of those capacitors.
  $endgroup$
  – JRE
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

$begingroup$

I recently had an old LCD monitor power supply go bad and figured I would try replacing the caps, all four of these were bulged and or leaking. They are all rated to 105 degrees C, all 1000uF and 25V yet two of them are much higher diameter. In my experience with a physically larger capacitor, you either get more voltage (more plate separation?) or more capacitance (more plates?), why are these caps different diameter?

Side question, the board had more than enough space for the larger caps everywhere, why not use the large (or small) caps everywhere for higher quantity discounts.

capacitor

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

Sam

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

Sam

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 2 hours ago

Sam

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

SamSam

46422 silver badges1111 bronze badges

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

5

$begingroup$

The answer lies in the datasheet and the designer requirements for cost, space, reliability, cost and temperature rating. There are many choices. (Did I say cost;)

http://www.capxongroup.com/prodsearch.aspx?lc=1&siteid=&ver=&usid=&mnuid=2082&modid=16&mode=

The Part Number defines; e.g. KF102M025I200A

• KF Family construction of foil film and dielectric, there are many others


• xxe value 102 for C in uF with exponents 10 00 uf


• M = 20 % tolerance on C


• xxx voltage rating


• A letter code for Case Dia & radial lead space


• xxx height xx.x mm

The height and Voltage reduce ESR while the diameter affects everything.

The parameters for selection of these low ESR caps are;

• C, Vdc, Size, max temp range, xxxx Hrs Endurance of accelerated MTBF at extreme temp & RMS ripple current




• the electrical variables for these choices are % DF at 120Hz, Ripple current @ 100kHz, @ 10kHz, ESR

I don't know the formula, but the diameter is determined by foil area, thickness, turns, ESR,and temp rise due to ripple current rating at max temp for xxxx hours due to thermal conductance and temp rise above max ambient rating and Arrhenius effects on Endurance.

share|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

Either they had different ESR ratings, as @hacktastical suggests, or the bigger ones are just an older design and/or the board manufacturer buys whatever is cheaper at the moment, then throws them into one bin. Cap manufacturers are getting better at making smaller caps, they're getting better at reducing manufacturing variations so that they can consistently hit ratings with not-quite-as-good caps, and some of them just plain lie.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

The relatively larger caps were likely to be a low ESR type, perhaps also with a higher thermal rating. That has some influence on the size/density.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

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5

$begingroup$

The answer lies in the datasheet and the designer requirements for cost, space, reliability, cost and temperature rating. There are many choices. (Did I say cost;)

http://www.capxongroup.com/prodsearch.aspx?lc=1&siteid=&ver=&usid=&mnuid=2082&modid=16&mode=

The Part Number defines; e.g. KF102M025I200A

• KF Family construction of foil film and dielectric, there are many others


• xxe value 102 for C in uF with exponents 10 00 uf


• M = 20 % tolerance on C


• xxx voltage rating


• A letter code for Case Dia & radial lead space


• xxx height xx.x mm

The height and Voltage reduce ESR while the diameter affects everything.

The parameters for selection of these low ESR caps are;

• C, Vdc, Size, max temp range, xxxx Hrs Endurance of accelerated MTBF at extreme temp & RMS ripple current




• the electrical variables for these choices are % DF at 120Hz, Ripple current @ 100kHz, @ 10kHz, ESR

I don't know the formula, but the diameter is determined by foil area, thickness, turns, ESR,and temp rise due to ripple current rating at max temp for xxxx hours due to thermal conductance and temp rise above max ambient rating and Arrhenius effects on Endurance.

share|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

5

$begingroup$

The answer lies in the datasheet and the designer requirements for cost, space, reliability, cost and temperature rating. There are many choices. (Did I say cost;)

http://www.capxongroup.com/prodsearch.aspx?lc=1&siteid=&ver=&usid=&mnuid=2082&modid=16&mode=

The Part Number defines; e.g. KF102M025I200A

• KF Family construction of foil film and dielectric, there are many others


• xxe value 102 for C in uF with exponents 10 00 uf


• M = 20 % tolerance on C


• xxx voltage rating


• A letter code for Case Dia & radial lead space


• xxx height xx.x mm

The height and Voltage reduce ESR while the diameter affects everything.

The parameters for selection of these low ESR caps are;

• C, Vdc, Size, max temp range, xxxx Hrs Endurance of accelerated MTBF at extreme temp & RMS ripple current




• the electrical variables for these choices are % DF at 120Hz, Ripple current @ 100kHz, @ 10kHz, ESR

I don't know the formula, but the diameter is determined by foil area, thickness, turns, ESR,and temp rise due to ripple current rating at max temp for xxxx hours due to thermal conductance and temp rise above max ambient rating and Arrhenius effects on Endurance.

share|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The answer lies in the datasheet and the designer requirements for cost, space, reliability, cost and temperature rating. There are many choices. (Did I say cost;)

http://www.capxongroup.com/prodsearch.aspx?lc=1&siteid=&ver=&usid=&mnuid=2082&modid=16&mode=

The Part Number defines; e.g. KF102M025I200A

• KF Family construction of foil film and dielectric, there are many others


• xxe value 102 for C in uF with exponents 10 00 uf


• M = 20 % tolerance on C


• xxx voltage rating


• A letter code for Case Dia & radial lead space


• xxx height xx.x mm

The height and Voltage reduce ESR while the diameter affects everything.

The parameters for selection of these low ESR caps are;

• C, Vdc, Size, max temp range, xxxx Hrs Endurance of accelerated MTBF at extreme temp & RMS ripple current




• the electrical variables for these choices are % DF at 120Hz, Ripple current @ 100kHz, @ 10kHz, ESR

I don't know the formula, but the diameter is determined by foil area, thickness, turns, ESR,and temp rise due to ripple current rating at max temp for xxxx hours due to thermal conductance and temp rise above max ambient rating and Arrhenius effects on Endurance.

share|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 6 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

answered 6 hours ago

Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

80.6k22 gold badges3030 silver badges116116 bronze badges

2

$begingroup$

Either they had different ESR ratings, as @hacktastical suggests, or the bigger ones are just an older design and/or the board manufacturer buys whatever is cheaper at the moment, then throws them into one bin. Cap manufacturers are getting better at making smaller caps, they're getting better at reducing manufacturing variations so that they can consistently hit ratings with not-quite-as-good caps, and some of them just plain lie.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

Either they had different ESR ratings, as @hacktastical suggests, or the bigger ones are just an older design and/or the board manufacturer buys whatever is cheaper at the moment, then throws them into one bin. Cap manufacturers are getting better at making smaller caps, they're getting better at reducing manufacturing variations so that they can consistently hit ratings with not-quite-as-good caps, and some of them just plain lie.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Either they had different ESR ratings, as @hacktastical suggests, or the bigger ones are just an older design and/or the board manufacturer buys whatever is cheaper at the moment, then throws them into one bin. Cap manufacturers are getting better at making smaller caps, they're getting better at reducing manufacturing variations so that they can consistently hit ratings with not-quite-as-good caps, and some of them just plain lie.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

answered 7 hours ago

TimWescottTimWescott

14.2k11 gold badge1111 silver badges2929 bronze badges

1

$begingroup$

The relatively larger caps were likely to be a low ESR type, perhaps also with a higher thermal rating. That has some influence on the size/density.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

The relatively larger caps were likely to be a low ESR type, perhaps also with a higher thermal rating. That has some influence on the size/density.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The relatively larger caps were likely to be a low ESR type, perhaps also with a higher thermal rating. That has some influence on the size/density.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

hacktasticalhacktastical

5,56455 silver badges2323 bronze badges