If people's daily habits are reliable then why is the stock market so unpredictable?Idea for getting rich...

Should the pagination be reset when changing the order?

What do you call the battery slot's ends?

How can I create folders in folders in terminal

Is Yang not precluded from conducting his "UBI experiment" as an electoral candidate?

Is this adjustment to the Lucky feat underpowered?

Strange "step" in i2c plot

Plot irregular circle in latex

Why do things cool down?

Floating Point XOR

MySQL - How to check for a value in all columns

Tips for remembering the order of parameters for ln?

Lumens specs when buying a flashlight/torch. Why maglite has only 680lm but cheap ones have 900,000?

Other than good shoes and a stick, what are some ways to preserve your knees on long hikes?

Did slaves have slaves?

Talk about Grandpa's weird talk: Who are these folks?

Who are the people reviewing far more papers than they're submitting for review?

How is underwater propagation of sound possible?

Can Brexit be undone in an emergency?

Simple way to decompose a lists in a certain way?

What is the origin of the “clerics can create water” trope?

Whence comes increasing usage of "I'll do an X" instead of "I'll have" in ordering food?

Why are two-stroke engines nearly unheard of in aviation?

Persuading players to be less attached to a pre-session 0 character concept

How to convey to the people around me that I want to disengage myself from constant giving?



If people's daily habits are reliable then why is the stock market so unpredictable?


Idea for getting rich using computers to track stocksPotential pitfalls of this volume trading strategyAre dividends the only thing linking stocks to corporate performance?Does the stock market create any sort of value?Why is RSU tax basis based on remaining shares after shares are witheld?How much do big firms and investors affect the stock market?Are Index Funds really as good as “experts” claim?Is the PE Ratio a good indicator of when to move money in and out of the stock market






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







18















Why is the stock market so unpredictable? If you think about it, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. Waking up, deciding what sites to browse, etc. So if we have a good model about how people behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • 11





    You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

    – C. E.
    yesterday






  • 7





    You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday






  • 2





    You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

    – Issel
    yesterday






  • 7





    @C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    14 hours ago








  • 1





    All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

    – not_a_comcast_employee
    12 hours ago




















18















Why is the stock market so unpredictable? If you think about it, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. Waking up, deciding what sites to browse, etc. So if we have a good model about how people behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • 11





    You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

    – C. E.
    yesterday






  • 7





    You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday






  • 2





    You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

    – Issel
    yesterday






  • 7





    @C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    14 hours ago








  • 1





    All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

    – not_a_comcast_employee
    12 hours ago
















18












18








18


3






Why is the stock market so unpredictable? If you think about it, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. Waking up, deciding what sites to browse, etc. So if we have a good model about how people behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?










share|improve this question









New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Why is the stock market so unpredictable? If you think about it, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. Waking up, deciding what sites to browse, etc. So if we have a good model about how people behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?







stocks stock-analysis






share|improve this question









New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









curiousdannii

1481 silver badge9 bronze badges




1481 silver badge9 bronze badges






New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked yesterday









StockguuStockguu

1121 silver badge3 bronze badges




1121 silver badge3 bronze badges




New contributor



Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Stockguu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • 11





    You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

    – C. E.
    yesterday






  • 7





    You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday






  • 2





    You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

    – Issel
    yesterday






  • 7





    @C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    14 hours ago








  • 1





    All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

    – not_a_comcast_employee
    12 hours ago
















  • 11





    You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

    – C. E.
    yesterday






  • 7





    You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday






  • 2





    You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

    – Issel
    yesterday






  • 7





    @C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

    – Peter A. Schneider
    14 hours ago








  • 1





    All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

    – not_a_comcast_employee
    12 hours ago










11




11





You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

– C. E.
yesterday





You seem to think that if people are predictable, then the sum of their actions with regards to the stock market should also result in something predictable. However, when a lot of independent agents interact, the sum total of their actions often display a great deal of randomness, even if each agent by itself is completely predictable. "Complex adaptive systems" is a name you can use to learn more about this. Check out Rule 30 for an example of a very simple system with behavior so random that it can be used as a random number generator.

– C. E.
yesterday




7




7





You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

– Stian Yttervik
yesterday





You are forgetting that everyone is trying to predict the market. This affects the market. And, it makes it "unpredictable". Unpredictable in quotes because just taking the performance of the market yesterday and applying that as a predictor for current day is fairly precise. So in that regards, it is about as predictable as the weather. But all the people betting on the market is affecting the market. And that is a feedback loop designed to create chaos out of order in any process, let alone one that is fairly unstable to begin with.

– Stian Yttervik
yesterday




2




2





You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

– Issel
yesterday





You know there are people who get entire PHD's trying to answer this question right? And you want it answered here in a few paragraphs?

– Issel
yesterday




7




7





@C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

– Peter A. Schneider
14 hours ago







@C.E. Actually, usually the opposite is true: Random differences in individual behavior cancel each other out when aggregated over many individuals so that predictability improves. You have some reasoning to do involving feedback loops and non-linearity of the complex system to explain why this is not the case here.

– Peter A. Schneider
14 hours ago






1




1





All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

– not_a_comcast_employee
12 hours ago







All of the predictable parts are already subtracted from the price.

– not_a_comcast_employee
12 hours ago












12 Answers
12






active

oldest

votes


















65
















The stock market measures how things change from what we predicted. If only things we predicted happened, the prices of stocks wouldn't really change.



You might think, "But Apple went from a tiny company to a giant company."



Sure, but if that was predictable, we all would have bought Apple stock back when it was a tiny company (since we knew it would become a giant company) and the price back then would have been much higher. The price of Apple stock was low in the past because we didn't know how big Apple would become. As that information became apparent, the price went up.



Simply put, anything people expect to happen will already be built into the price. The changes we see come from things unexpected.



A sudden trade war with China. Trump gets elected. A hurricane hits North Carolina. A particular drug is discovered to cure a disease, or maybe one is taken off the market because it causes birth defects.




So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




It is. The price of a stock today does include everything people expect to happen. The possibility that Apple would become what it is today has been factored into Apple's price all along. But that was mixed in with other then possible outcomes that didn't come to pass.






share|improve this answer




























  • As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

    – Dannie
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

    – Graham
    11 hours ago











  • It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

    – Dannie
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

    – Nobody
    9 hours ago











  • Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

    – Joshua
    3 hours ago



















26

















If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




Really?




Waking up,




You never oversleep.




deciding what sites to browse,




Not sure how many people plan that in the morning. I do not.




So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't
his be transferred to stocks?




Because:




  • You do not even come close to have a good model. You assume because you have or can name a couple of data points that is a good model. It is not even close to be an idea for a possibly model.

  • Because the stock market is not only people and it is a LOT of actors all actions quite possibly quite rationally but together forming a complex chaotic system.


You can not go easily from "I know how Joe would react" to "I have a model that can model millions of different actors reliably".






share|improve this answer























  • 3





    In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

    – JoeTaxpayer
    yesterday






  • 1





    If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

    – SJuan76
    18 hours ago











  • @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

    – Gnudiff
    17 hours ago








  • 1





    It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

    – spectras
    9 hours ago











  • Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

    – jamesqf
    7 mins ago



















10
















Short answer: arbitrage.



The way I see it, you're not really betting on anything physical, nor even on how well companies perform; you're betting on what all the other investors/speculators think about all that.  And what everyone else thinks they think.  And so on, and so on…  It's a massive game of second-guessing, third-guessing, and umpteenth-guesing.



As Ben Kingley's character said in Sneakers, it's all about the information.  The markets are designed to use information as efficiently as possible.  (That's why insider trading is one of the most heinous financial crimes; it prevents the markets working efficiently.)



The result is that anything predictable cancels out.  As soon as something is predictable, traders react by buying or selling, which moves the price to counteract it.  And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens — to the point where the only price movements you see are completely unpredictable.



As soon as there's a difference between what the price is, and what people think it should be or is going to be, they will take advantage of that difference (arbitrage), and the difference will disappear.  In effect, it's a very tight negative-feedback loop, filtering out everything but noise.



Few things in life are based around such a rapid and vast feedback loop, which is why it seems counterintuitive.






share|improve this answer




























  • "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

    – nick012000
    15 hours ago








  • 5





    Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

    – lazarusL
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

    – Michael
    12 hours ago






  • 2





    @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

    – lazarusL
    11 hours ago











  • @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

    – Michael
    11 hours ago



















4
















Whatever is predictable about a financial product is already factored into its price. For instance, if the company is predicted to do well, its stock becomes overvalued, and the opposite happens to companies those future looks grim.



The remaining uncertainty in a financial product after such corrections is truly random from the point of view of anyone who hasn't got a better prediction model. And if someone does, they will have the incentive to trade in a way that again factors that better knowledge into the price: they will buy products that they expect to perform well (thus increasing their price) and sell the products that they expect to perform poorly.






share|improve this answer



































    1
















    I'm not sure why you think it is unpredictable. Good companies do well bad companies do poorly. Virtually all companies will fall when the market is overpriced and wall Street finds a reason to offload. Virtually all companies with solid earnings will rise when the market is undervalued. You see the market is very predictable when it reaches obvious valuations, both over and under. The reason you say it is unpredictable is because you are entering and exiting too frequently. If all you did was jump in at the bottom of a crash and jump out when it reached lofty valuations you would say it was very predictable






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor



    user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.

















    • 1





      At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

      – Michael
      12 hours ago



















    1
















    The elephant in the room missing in the other answers is the irrationality inherent in stock (and other) markets.



    Sure enough: There are many measurable, rational, "real" things influencing stock value. The monetary value of a company, how we expect the market for their products to develop, how expensive the stock is compared to the company's earnings, capital cost etc.



    But one of the most influential reasons to buy or sell stock — driving its value up and down — is simply that we expect that stock to rise or fall in value. Speculation is as old as the markets.



    The feedback loop which is thus established is pretty obvious: Part of the demand for stock has no discernible root in physical or financial reality; instead, it is driven by what other people think, which in turn is strongly influenced by that very stock value development.



    This is how bubbles expand and burst, with oscillations that are orders of magnitude larger than the effects of the actual tangible operations of a company. Such feedback loops are non-linear and correspondingly hard to predict, and predicting them involves psychology more than economics. Some people do that better than others; you may be interested in Michael Lewis' The Big Short, specifically the story of Michael Burry2, or examine the point in time when Warren Buffet started buying again in 2008 while everybody else thought the world was going to end.1



    My impression is that it is better for one's nerves to buy an index paper and stick with it ;-).






    1 Finding the right point in time is like playing chicken which probably already the Neanderthals did with mammoths: If you are early, you are uncool; if you hit the perfect spot you are cool and get the girl; if you are late you are dead. And past successes are at best a weak indicator for the future.

    2 Although truth be told, Michael Burry's shorting of CDOs was based on hard economics — he was about the only one reading the legally required fine print — and not psychology. He defied speculation arguing that eventually the underlying economic reality would put an end to it. He was right, in the end.






    share|improve this answer



































      0
















      Three reasons:



      (a) thin margins



      Companies sell a product for price P, and buy the stuff/services needed to build the product for price 0.9P. The profit is 0.1P, rather thin. If for some reason customers' willingness to pay decreases by 10%, the whole profit is lost. Thus, in times when economic conditions are not optimal, the company cannot pay dividend. The only reason people invest in stocks is in fact it, namely the dividend. (Some stocks don't pay dividend but their value is based on the expectation that someday they could start paying dividend. Note that dividends are equivalent to share buybacks, so if a company is buying back its shares, it's effectively paying dividend.)



      (b) supply and demand



      Prices do vary based on supply and demand of savings instruments. At times when saving money into stocks is trendy, stocks are expensive. At times when spending all of your money is trendy, stocks are cheap. For example, during a recession a huge number of people want to access their savings, driving down prices. If you are countercyclical, you will find that during a recession, you have a huge amount of good investment opportunities at ridiculously low prices.



      (c) liquidity



      Stock market is actually a safer investment than e.g. the housing market. See for example this: http://digitalarchive.maastrichtuniversity.nl/fedora/get/guid:cda347a3-7fdf-426e-99a4-1a2c30717764/ASSET1 (links seems to be rather slow as I'm writing this)



      In this file, it is explained how house prices have gone both up and down. The maximum decrease was 80%. It's about the same than stocks during a very large depression. However, with stocks it's easy to diversify whereas most people have the money to purchase only 1 or perhaps 2 houses. So, due to lack of diversification it generally doesn't make sense to invest money into housing market but rather invest it into stock market.



      Why people do think stocks are unpredictable and houses are predictable, then? Because stock market is liquid. The 80% crash in real house prices happened over a period of over 35 years between 1778-1779 and 1814-1815. Stocks could crash in few days or less.






      share|improve this answer


























      • Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

        – juhist
        yesterday











      • Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

        – JoeTaxpayer
        yesterday






      • 5





        The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

        – mhoran_psprep
        yesterday











      • @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

        – juhist
        12 hours ago











      • The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

        – Michael
        12 hours ago



















      0

















      So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




      Stocks are, in essence, just a commodity to be bought and sold. And that means you have a price.



      A price is simply a value we assign something (and we tend to go based on someone being willing to pay said price, not the pure opinion of the previous owner). Prices can be volatile. Milk might cost $3 per gallon, but what if some disease wipes out half the cows that make the milk? The price of milk goes up. Is there any way to predict that? And that's assuming we only have one factor driving the price to change.



      Prices contain too much information to process meaningfully




      Why prices are a mystery isn’t a mystery. The why of prices — or at least all the whys of prices — are simply unknowable. Sure, you might be able to know why person X wants $28.99 for his vintage Batman talking alarm clock while another person wants $80.99 for the same masterpiece, but you can’t know all the reasons why it originally sold for $9.99. Once you make your peace with that fact, the mystery ceases being mysterious.



      What I think is fascinating is that prices aren’t unique. We think they are a category unto themselves. A price isn’t like anything else, right? Well, wrong — maybe. If prices are simply the agglomeration of disparate and complex information boiled down to a number, can’t other things be agglomerations of disparate and complex information boiled down to something else?



      Anyway, the point I’m getting at is that there’s nothing — nothing — that we say, do, own, make, or believe that isn’t brimming with all of the sorts of information that go into a price.




      The stock market is driven by a myriad of forces and interests. I have money in there for my retirement. Warren Buffet has money in there make money for other people. John Doe has money in there because he likes owning a certain brand of stock. Different goals. Maybe Warren Buffet dumps his stock in Company X, which drives the price down, while John hangs on to his no matter the price. Or maybe a bug in stock trading software causes havoc




      When the market opened at 9:30 AM people quickly knew something was wrong. By 9:31 AM it was evident to many people on Wall Street that something serious was happening. The market was being flooded with orders out of the ordinary for regular trading volumes on certain stocks. By 9:32 AM many people on Wall Street were wondering why it hadn’t stopped. This was an eternity in high-speed trading terms. Why hadn’t someone hit the kill-switch on whatever system was doing this? As it turns out there was no kill switch. During the first 45-minutes of trading Knight’s executions constituted more than 50% of the trading volume, driving certain stocks up over 10% of their value. As a result other stocks decreased in value in response to the erroneous trades.




      TL;DR



      Stocks are based on prices (what people are willing to pay for them). Prices are based on too much information to know why they are priced the way they are at any given moment. Stocks are based on even more information than most commodities.






      share|improve this answer

































        0
















        There are two types of prediction problems typically.



        The level 1 prediction models are for things like weather - one could predict something, wait and observe, and then correct the error for next prediction. The key aspect is the fact whether it would or would not rain on a certain day is not dependent, i.e., it does not change, due to the prediction (that it is going to rain, or it is not going to rain).



        However level 2 predictions are harder - which is precisely the stock market. Even if one develops an excellent model that predicts how the stock market is going to behave, the moment somebody actually starts using the model to buy and sell stocks - the market "sees" the increased buying/selling of a certain stock, and corrects itself appropriately. Soon this excellent model becomes obsolete.



        And the duration for which this excellent model predicted the stock behavior correctly could be really small, that its short term success is pretty much indistinguishable from noise.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor



        Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





























          0
















          A term that has been used to describe the stock market is anti-inductive. See https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/h24JGbmweNpWZfBkM/markets-are-anti-inductive and
          https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ . Our knowledge of a planet's orbit doesn't affect it. So we can learn more about an orbit, and then the orbit will be easier to predict. But with the market, learning about it changes its behavior. Whenever we learn more about the market, ;people act on that information, changing the market. So the more people work on trying to understand the market, the more people are affecting the market, and the harder it is to understand the market. Unlike with predicting planet's orbits, when you predict the market, you have to include the behavior of people, and people will be reacting to your analysis of them market. So your predictions have to predict the actions of people reacting to analysis that predict the behavior of people reacting to analysis that predicts ... and so on.If one person happens to be better than everyone else at analyzing the market, then they might be successful in predicting it. But people in general can't predict the market, because the average person, by definition, isn't any better than any other average person, so if one average person can figure out that stock will go up, then every other average person can figure that out too and bid the price up. Stock market fluctuations represent the unpredicted parts of the economy. If they were predicted, then they would have already been included in the price. We can't predict market fluctuations because the fluctuations are by definition what isn't predicted.






          share|improve this answer


























          • Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

            – Joshua
            3 hours ago



















          0

















          Why is the stock market so unpredictable? ...most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




          If you mean overall and you mean in the long run then the US stock market is predictable.



          It is like how people are predictable in large numbers - what a random person will do is not predictable.



          At a US theme park (like Disney) people, when given a choice, will tend to turn right instead of left. That can be established as fact, because people study this stuff and that is what they've found.

          That does not mean that you can predict whether a specific person will choose to go to the left or right at a specific place.



          The stock market is the same:

          A certified financial planner will likely tell you that, "If you will need the money in the next five years, you probably should not put it in the stock market."



          Why would they say that?

          Because if you look at mutual funds with 10+ year track records, you'll find that they have a positive return in almost all periods of five consecutive years of their history.

          (four point something times out of five if I remember correctly)



          TL;DR;

          The stock market is very likely to go up if you are looking at period of five or more consecutive years.



          What a particular stock will do is anybody's guess...

          and they're all guessing differently...

          and people change their guess from one day to the next...

          and that is what sets the price...

          which why a particular stock moves so erratically...

          But... over time (measured in years)... the market goes up :-)






          share|improve this answer

































            0
















            There are two related reasons. The first is that if today's price is equal to yesterday's prices times a reward plus an appraisal error then the resulting difference equation can be proven to be intrinsically unstable, p(t+1)=Rx(t)+e(t+1). As long as the appraisal error has finite variance centered on zero, then any Frequentist statistical estimator will have no predictive power at all.



            The second reason is that if an equilibrium price exists at each moment in time and the equilibrium reward plus a shock is the true reward then the distribution of returns around the equilibrium return will be the truncated Cauchy distribution if you have factored out liquidity risks, dividend risks, merger risks, and bankruptcy risks.



            The Cauchy distribution is unusual in that it cannot have an average. You can always calculate the sample average but it won't ever settle down and converge to the true center of the distribution, which for stocks is the mode.



            John Cook provides a graphical example of the difference of the behavior of the sample mean of a Cauchy distribution and the mean of the normal distribution. You can find it at Cauchy versus Normal



            The mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot classified the behavior of random variables as having seven classifications. The type you generally encounter in day-to-day life is proper mild randomness. Equity security returns are the seventh class of randomness, which is extreme randomness.



            In fact, you can predict things in equity markets. You can only use Bayesian methods. For a variety of reasons, it can be shown that it would be profoundly unwise to use a Frequentist methodology, but most do because it is what they know.



            The difficulty is that most people try to predict things using Frequentist methods of proper mild randomness rather than Bayesian methods for extreme randomness. That includes professionals.



            As there is no way to use MathML in this forum but I am about to produce a resource you could use though it is intended for those with doctorates in statistics, mathematics, finance, and economics. I will try and remember to post a link to it when it is in its final form. Elements of it could be used by anyone with a basic understanding of probability and basic calculus methods.



            The physicist and statistical polemicist E.T. Jaynes wrote that had the first problems in statistics involved the Cauchy distribution the trajectory of the field of statistics would have been radically different.






            share|improve this answer


























              protected by Ganesh Sittampalam 5 hours ago



              Thank you for your interest in this question.
              Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



              Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














              12 Answers
              12






              active

              oldest

              votes








              12 Answers
              12






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              65
















              The stock market measures how things change from what we predicted. If only things we predicted happened, the prices of stocks wouldn't really change.



              You might think, "But Apple went from a tiny company to a giant company."



              Sure, but if that was predictable, we all would have bought Apple stock back when it was a tiny company (since we knew it would become a giant company) and the price back then would have been much higher. The price of Apple stock was low in the past because we didn't know how big Apple would become. As that information became apparent, the price went up.



              Simply put, anything people expect to happen will already be built into the price. The changes we see come from things unexpected.



              A sudden trade war with China. Trump gets elected. A hurricane hits North Carolina. A particular drug is discovered to cure a disease, or maybe one is taken off the market because it causes birth defects.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




              It is. The price of a stock today does include everything people expect to happen. The possibility that Apple would become what it is today has been factored into Apple's price all along. But that was mixed in with other then possible outcomes that didn't come to pass.






              share|improve this answer




























              • As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

                – Dannie
                12 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

                – Graham
                11 hours ago











              • It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

                – Dannie
                11 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

                – Nobody
                9 hours ago











              • Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

                – Joshua
                3 hours ago
















              65
















              The stock market measures how things change from what we predicted. If only things we predicted happened, the prices of stocks wouldn't really change.



              You might think, "But Apple went from a tiny company to a giant company."



              Sure, but if that was predictable, we all would have bought Apple stock back when it was a tiny company (since we knew it would become a giant company) and the price back then would have been much higher. The price of Apple stock was low in the past because we didn't know how big Apple would become. As that information became apparent, the price went up.



              Simply put, anything people expect to happen will already be built into the price. The changes we see come from things unexpected.



              A sudden trade war with China. Trump gets elected. A hurricane hits North Carolina. A particular drug is discovered to cure a disease, or maybe one is taken off the market because it causes birth defects.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




              It is. The price of a stock today does include everything people expect to happen. The possibility that Apple would become what it is today has been factored into Apple's price all along. But that was mixed in with other then possible outcomes that didn't come to pass.






              share|improve this answer




























              • As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

                – Dannie
                12 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

                – Graham
                11 hours ago











              • It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

                – Dannie
                11 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

                – Nobody
                9 hours ago











              • Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

                – Joshua
                3 hours ago














              65














              65










              65









              The stock market measures how things change from what we predicted. If only things we predicted happened, the prices of stocks wouldn't really change.



              You might think, "But Apple went from a tiny company to a giant company."



              Sure, but if that was predictable, we all would have bought Apple stock back when it was a tiny company (since we knew it would become a giant company) and the price back then would have been much higher. The price of Apple stock was low in the past because we didn't know how big Apple would become. As that information became apparent, the price went up.



              Simply put, anything people expect to happen will already be built into the price. The changes we see come from things unexpected.



              A sudden trade war with China. Trump gets elected. A hurricane hits North Carolina. A particular drug is discovered to cure a disease, or maybe one is taken off the market because it causes birth defects.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




              It is. The price of a stock today does include everything people expect to happen. The possibility that Apple would become what it is today has been factored into Apple's price all along. But that was mixed in with other then possible outcomes that didn't come to pass.






              share|improve this answer















              The stock market measures how things change from what we predicted. If only things we predicted happened, the prices of stocks wouldn't really change.



              You might think, "But Apple went from a tiny company to a giant company."



              Sure, but if that was predictable, we all would have bought Apple stock back when it was a tiny company (since we knew it would become a giant company) and the price back then would have been much higher. The price of Apple stock was low in the past because we didn't know how big Apple would become. As that information became apparent, the price went up.



              Simply put, anything people expect to happen will already be built into the price. The changes we see come from things unexpected.



              A sudden trade war with China. Trump gets elected. A hurricane hits North Carolina. A particular drug is discovered to cure a disease, or maybe one is taken off the market because it causes birth defects.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




              It is. The price of a stock today does include everything people expect to happen. The possibility that Apple would become what it is today has been factored into Apple's price all along. But that was mixed in with other then possible outcomes that didn't come to pass.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 14 hours ago









              Cloud

              1,8354 gold badges7 silver badges18 bronze badges




              1,8354 gold badges7 silver badges18 bronze badges










              answered yesterday









              David SchwartzDavid Schwartz

              5,63418 silver badges27 bronze badges




              5,63418 silver badges27 bronze badges
















              • As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

                – Dannie
                12 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

                – Graham
                11 hours ago











              • It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

                – Dannie
                11 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

                – Nobody
                9 hours ago











              • Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

                – Joshua
                3 hours ago



















              • As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

                – Dannie
                12 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

                – Graham
                11 hours ago











              • It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

                – Dannie
                11 hours ago






              • 1





                @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

                – Nobody
                9 hours ago











              • Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

                – Joshua
                3 hours ago

















              As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

              – Dannie
              12 hours ago





              As I understand it, things like microsecond-scale data flight times are important for things like arbitrage. Nothing you've mentioned happens at that kind of timescale. If this kind of resolution were impossible, say a non-computerised market, would any external information about the outside world really be lost?

              – Dannie
              12 hours ago




              1




              1





              @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

              – Graham
              11 hours ago





              @Dannie Arbitrage is nice, but it's a salami-slicing exercise, with wafer-thin slices of salami. If you want the entire sausage (or at least a thicker slice), you need something to change dramatically. But since everyone does not have perfect information, some people will bet one way and some will bet another. As soon as a shift becomes apparent and it becomes clear that one way brings in more money, everyone chases after that way, and prices escalate accordingly. This is a textbook example of a "positive feedback loop", and that is inherently unstable.

              – Graham
              11 hours ago













              It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

              – Dannie
              11 hours ago





              It seems to me this would make arbitrage at a timescale much shorter than real-world information flows detrimental to the functioning of that market? Im ean, who designs in positive-feedback loops? Why do markets seem to bend over backwards to reduce the reliability and stability of the market? For the moolah, I guess. I suppose it's possible you get a sharper edge to some real world event with that kind of noise included. You'd think companies would prefer to list on exchanges which didn't support this kind of activity. It does seem to require complicity from the exchange, doesn't it?

              – Dannie
              11 hours ago




              1




              1





              @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

              – Nobody
              9 hours ago





              @Dannie microsecond-scale communication is only important for a very particular kind of arbitrage, viz. the kind that takes advantage of the fact that "the stock market" is physically distributed over a number of data centers. If you can observe a large order coming in in one data center and beat that order to the next data center as it's propagated along, then you can adjust your prices and make money. You are not the first person to suggest that this shouldn't be allowed. Michael Lewis covered this in an episode of his podcast "Against the Rules" (episode title: "The Magic Shoebox")

              – Nobody
              9 hours ago













              Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

              – Joshua
              3 hours ago





              Sorry about the downvote but I'm beating the DOW because it isn't true. I wish I really could write up a better answer but the truth looks like drivel.

              – Joshua
              3 hours ago













              26

















              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




              Really?




              Waking up,




              You never oversleep.




              deciding what sites to browse,




              Not sure how many people plan that in the morning. I do not.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't
              his be transferred to stocks?




              Because:




              • You do not even come close to have a good model. You assume because you have or can name a couple of data points that is a good model. It is not even close to be an idea for a possibly model.

              • Because the stock market is not only people and it is a LOT of actors all actions quite possibly quite rationally but together forming a complex chaotic system.


              You can not go easily from "I know how Joe would react" to "I have a model that can model millions of different actors reliably".






              share|improve this answer























              • 3





                In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

                – JoeTaxpayer
                yesterday






              • 1





                If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

                – SJuan76
                18 hours ago











              • @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

                – Gnudiff
                17 hours ago








              • 1





                It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

                – spectras
                9 hours ago











              • Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

                – jamesqf
                7 mins ago
















              26

















              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




              Really?




              Waking up,




              You never oversleep.




              deciding what sites to browse,




              Not sure how many people plan that in the morning. I do not.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't
              his be transferred to stocks?




              Because:




              • You do not even come close to have a good model. You assume because you have or can name a couple of data points that is a good model. It is not even close to be an idea for a possibly model.

              • Because the stock market is not only people and it is a LOT of actors all actions quite possibly quite rationally but together forming a complex chaotic system.


              You can not go easily from "I know how Joe would react" to "I have a model that can model millions of different actors reliably".






              share|improve this answer























              • 3





                In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

                – JoeTaxpayer
                yesterday






              • 1





                If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

                – SJuan76
                18 hours ago











              • @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

                – Gnudiff
                17 hours ago








              • 1





                It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

                – spectras
                9 hours ago











              • Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

                – jamesqf
                7 mins ago














              26














              26










              26










              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




              Really?




              Waking up,




              You never oversleep.




              deciding what sites to browse,




              Not sure how many people plan that in the morning. I do not.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't
              his be transferred to stocks?




              Because:




              • You do not even come close to have a good model. You assume because you have or can name a couple of data points that is a good model. It is not even close to be an idea for a possibly model.

              • Because the stock market is not only people and it is a LOT of actors all actions quite possibly quite rationally but together forming a complex chaotic system.


              You can not go easily from "I know how Joe would react" to "I have a model that can model millions of different actors reliably".






              share|improve this answer
















              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




              Really?




              Waking up,




              You never oversleep.




              deciding what sites to browse,




              Not sure how many people plan that in the morning. I do not.




              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't
              his be transferred to stocks?




              Because:




              • You do not even come close to have a good model. You assume because you have or can name a couple of data points that is a good model. It is not even close to be an idea for a possibly model.

              • Because the stock market is not only people and it is a LOT of actors all actions quite possibly quite rationally but together forming a complex chaotic system.


              You can not go easily from "I know how Joe would react" to "I have a model that can model millions of different actors reliably".







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 10 hours ago









              Ganesh Sittampalam

              19.8k6 gold badges64 silver badges95 bronze badges




              19.8k6 gold badges64 silver badges95 bronze badges










              answered yesterday









              TomTomTomTom

              4,8632 gold badges16 silver badges20 bronze badges




              4,8632 gold badges16 silver badges20 bronze badges











              • 3





                In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

                – JoeTaxpayer
                yesterday






              • 1





                If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

                – SJuan76
                18 hours ago











              • @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

                – Gnudiff
                17 hours ago








              • 1





                It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

                – spectras
                9 hours ago











              • Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

                – jamesqf
                7 mins ago














              • 3





                In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

                – JoeTaxpayer
                yesterday






              • 1





                If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

                – SJuan76
                18 hours ago











              • @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

                – Gnudiff
                17 hours ago








              • 1





                It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

                – spectras
                9 hours ago











              • Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

                – jamesqf
                7 mins ago








              3




              3





              In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

              – JoeTaxpayer
              yesterday





              In 2 months I will know my wife for 35 years. She still doesn't know how I'll react much of the time. OP assumes too much. A few weeks ago, I made a bet on VXX (the volatility index ETF) which returned $1000 on $200. Based on things feeling too quiet. Sure enough, a few tweets from POTUS, and volatility spiked. Completely random stuff.

              – JoeTaxpayer
              yesterday




              1




              1





              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

              – SJuan76
              18 hours ago





              If you think about, most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable. To be fair, this is correct most of the time, and because of that most of the time the market does not change considerably. But of course, people who want to invest in stocks are interested in the changes and those attract most of the attention.

              – SJuan76
              18 hours ago













              @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

              – Gnudiff
              17 hours ago







              @SJuan76 to be fair, it only works for a diminishing fraction of people over time. The longer somebody has lived the more unexpected things have happened to him. Every day a number of people get in an accident, get mugged, win some lottery (okay maybe this one doesn't happen every day), etc. By the age of 50, if nothing unexpected has happened in a person's life, he is one of the lucky few (assuming his life in general is pleasant).

              – Gnudiff
              17 hours ago






              1




              1





              It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

              – spectras
              9 hours ago





              It also only works because you picked pretty generic predictions. “I will get up today”. Now, make it more precise, like the exact second of the day you wake up or the exact motion of your legs as you go from your bed to your wardrobe and see how well you can predict that.

              – spectras
              9 hours ago













              Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

              – jamesqf
              7 mins ago





              Re knowing what sites I'll browse, sure, most days (when I don't decide to e.g. go riding or hiking early because the weather's hot, or skiing because the snow's good, or whatever) you can pretty well predict that I will sit down with my cereal & coffee and browse SE (among other sites). But you'd have to know a lot more about me to predict which specific questions I'll find interesting enough to look at, and that depends on other people. And to a certain extent on the vagaries of nature: maybe someone started to ask a question that I'd find interesting, but the computer ate it...

              – jamesqf
              7 mins ago











              10
















              Short answer: arbitrage.



              The way I see it, you're not really betting on anything physical, nor even on how well companies perform; you're betting on what all the other investors/speculators think about all that.  And what everyone else thinks they think.  And so on, and so on…  It's a massive game of second-guessing, third-guessing, and umpteenth-guesing.



              As Ben Kingley's character said in Sneakers, it's all about the information.  The markets are designed to use information as efficiently as possible.  (That's why insider trading is one of the most heinous financial crimes; it prevents the markets working efficiently.)



              The result is that anything predictable cancels out.  As soon as something is predictable, traders react by buying or selling, which moves the price to counteract it.  And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens — to the point where the only price movements you see are completely unpredictable.



              As soon as there's a difference between what the price is, and what people think it should be or is going to be, they will take advantage of that difference (arbitrage), and the difference will disappear.  In effect, it's a very tight negative-feedback loop, filtering out everything but noise.



              Few things in life are based around such a rapid and vast feedback loop, which is why it seems counterintuitive.






              share|improve this answer




























              • "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

                – nick012000
                15 hours ago








              • 5





                Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

                – lazarusL
                14 hours ago






              • 1





                @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

                – Michael
                12 hours ago






              • 2





                @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

                – lazarusL
                11 hours ago











              • @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

                – Michael
                11 hours ago
















              10
















              Short answer: arbitrage.



              The way I see it, you're not really betting on anything physical, nor even on how well companies perform; you're betting on what all the other investors/speculators think about all that.  And what everyone else thinks they think.  And so on, and so on…  It's a massive game of second-guessing, third-guessing, and umpteenth-guesing.



              As Ben Kingley's character said in Sneakers, it's all about the information.  The markets are designed to use information as efficiently as possible.  (That's why insider trading is one of the most heinous financial crimes; it prevents the markets working efficiently.)



              The result is that anything predictable cancels out.  As soon as something is predictable, traders react by buying or selling, which moves the price to counteract it.  And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens — to the point where the only price movements you see are completely unpredictable.



              As soon as there's a difference between what the price is, and what people think it should be or is going to be, they will take advantage of that difference (arbitrage), and the difference will disappear.  In effect, it's a very tight negative-feedback loop, filtering out everything but noise.



              Few things in life are based around such a rapid and vast feedback loop, which is why it seems counterintuitive.






              share|improve this answer




























              • "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

                – nick012000
                15 hours ago








              • 5





                Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

                – lazarusL
                14 hours ago






              • 1





                @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

                – Michael
                12 hours ago






              • 2





                @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

                – lazarusL
                11 hours ago











              • @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

                – Michael
                11 hours ago














              10














              10










              10









              Short answer: arbitrage.



              The way I see it, you're not really betting on anything physical, nor even on how well companies perform; you're betting on what all the other investors/speculators think about all that.  And what everyone else thinks they think.  And so on, and so on…  It's a massive game of second-guessing, third-guessing, and umpteenth-guesing.



              As Ben Kingley's character said in Sneakers, it's all about the information.  The markets are designed to use information as efficiently as possible.  (That's why insider trading is one of the most heinous financial crimes; it prevents the markets working efficiently.)



              The result is that anything predictable cancels out.  As soon as something is predictable, traders react by buying or selling, which moves the price to counteract it.  And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens — to the point where the only price movements you see are completely unpredictable.



              As soon as there's a difference between what the price is, and what people think it should be or is going to be, they will take advantage of that difference (arbitrage), and the difference will disappear.  In effect, it's a very tight negative-feedback loop, filtering out everything but noise.



              Few things in life are based around such a rapid and vast feedback loop, which is why it seems counterintuitive.






              share|improve this answer















              Short answer: arbitrage.



              The way I see it, you're not really betting on anything physical, nor even on how well companies perform; you're betting on what all the other investors/speculators think about all that.  And what everyone else thinks they think.  And so on, and so on…  It's a massive game of second-guessing, third-guessing, and umpteenth-guesing.



              As Ben Kingley's character said in Sneakers, it's all about the information.  The markets are designed to use information as efficiently as possible.  (That's why insider trading is one of the most heinous financial crimes; it prevents the markets working efficiently.)



              The result is that anything predictable cancels out.  As soon as something is predictable, traders react by buying or selling, which moves the price to counteract it.  And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens — to the point where the only price movements you see are completely unpredictable.



              As soon as there's a difference between what the price is, and what people think it should be or is going to be, they will take advantage of that difference (arbitrage), and the difference will disappear.  In effect, it's a very tight negative-feedback loop, filtering out everything but noise.



              Few things in life are based around such a rapid and vast feedback loop, which is why it seems counterintuitive.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited yesterday

























              answered yesterday









              giddsgidds

              2614 bronze badges




              2614 bronze badges
















              • "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

                – nick012000
                15 hours ago








              • 5





                Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

                – lazarusL
                14 hours ago






              • 1





                @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

                – Michael
                12 hours ago






              • 2





                @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

                – lazarusL
                11 hours ago











              • @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

                – Michael
                11 hours ago



















              • "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

                – nick012000
                15 hours ago








              • 5





                Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

                – lazarusL
                14 hours ago






              • 1





                @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

                – Michael
                12 hours ago






              • 2





                @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

                – lazarusL
                11 hours ago











              • @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

                – Michael
                11 hours ago

















              "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

              – nick012000
              15 hours ago







              "And the more efficient the markets become, the faster and more accurately this happens" Like the automated quant traders?

              – nick012000
              15 hours ago






              5




              5





              Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

              – lazarusL
              14 hours ago





              Arguably insider trading makes markets even more efficient as it moves stock prices even faster and reflects even better information than the public has. The problem is more with allocation of profits from information than efficiency.

              – lazarusL
              14 hours ago




              1




              1





              @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

              – Michael
              12 hours ago





              @lazarusL I would argue that insider trading only moves stock prices sometimes, for two reasons, both based on the fact that stock price is marginally determined by supply and demand. First, insider traders have to have sufficient capital to be able to move the markets in the first place, and second, those without the inside information can still be convinced of their (opposite) stance and make large (costly) errors in allocating their capital in that direction.

              – Michael
              12 hours ago




              2




              2





              @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

              – lazarusL
              11 hours ago





              @Michael I mean... if insiders sell and outsiders buy such that the price remains the same, the market is no less efficient, it's just that the insiders win more and the outsiders lose more. If insiders shift the price, then the market is more efficient. I'm more inclined towards the argument that insiders undermine faith in markets and make outsiders wary of investing for fear of being beaten by insiders.

              – lazarusL
              11 hours ago













              @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

              – Michael
              11 hours ago





              @lazarusL In either case (making the market more efficient or not), insiders have an unfair advantage because they essentially make close to risk free profit well above the risk free rate at the expense of those who are not insiders. This definitely does undermine faith!

              – Michael
              11 hours ago











              4
















              Whatever is predictable about a financial product is already factored into its price. For instance, if the company is predicted to do well, its stock becomes overvalued, and the opposite happens to companies those future looks grim.



              The remaining uncertainty in a financial product after such corrections is truly random from the point of view of anyone who hasn't got a better prediction model. And if someone does, they will have the incentive to trade in a way that again factors that better knowledge into the price: they will buy products that they expect to perform well (thus increasing their price) and sell the products that they expect to perform poorly.






              share|improve this answer
































                4
















                Whatever is predictable about a financial product is already factored into its price. For instance, if the company is predicted to do well, its stock becomes overvalued, and the opposite happens to companies those future looks grim.



                The remaining uncertainty in a financial product after such corrections is truly random from the point of view of anyone who hasn't got a better prediction model. And if someone does, they will have the incentive to trade in a way that again factors that better knowledge into the price: they will buy products that they expect to perform well (thus increasing their price) and sell the products that they expect to perform poorly.






                share|improve this answer






























                  4














                  4










                  4









                  Whatever is predictable about a financial product is already factored into its price. For instance, if the company is predicted to do well, its stock becomes overvalued, and the opposite happens to companies those future looks grim.



                  The remaining uncertainty in a financial product after such corrections is truly random from the point of view of anyone who hasn't got a better prediction model. And if someone does, they will have the incentive to trade in a way that again factors that better knowledge into the price: they will buy products that they expect to perform well (thus increasing their price) and sell the products that they expect to perform poorly.






                  share|improve this answer















                  Whatever is predictable about a financial product is already factored into its price. For instance, if the company is predicted to do well, its stock becomes overvalued, and the opposite happens to companies those future looks grim.



                  The remaining uncertainty in a financial product after such corrections is truly random from the point of view of anyone who hasn't got a better prediction model. And if someone does, they will have the incentive to trade in a way that again factors that better knowledge into the price: they will buy products that they expect to perform well (thus increasing their price) and sell the products that they expect to perform poorly.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 18 hours ago

























                  answered 20 hours ago









                  Dmitry GrigoryevDmitry Grigoryev

                  1,1795 silver badges14 bronze badges




                  1,1795 silver badges14 bronze badges


























                      1
















                      I'm not sure why you think it is unpredictable. Good companies do well bad companies do poorly. Virtually all companies will fall when the market is overpriced and wall Street finds a reason to offload. Virtually all companies with solid earnings will rise when the market is undervalued. You see the market is very predictable when it reaches obvious valuations, both over and under. The reason you say it is unpredictable is because you are entering and exiting too frequently. If all you did was jump in at the bottom of a crash and jump out when it reached lofty valuations you would say it was very predictable






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.

















                      • 1





                        At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                        – Michael
                        12 hours ago
















                      1
















                      I'm not sure why you think it is unpredictable. Good companies do well bad companies do poorly. Virtually all companies will fall when the market is overpriced and wall Street finds a reason to offload. Virtually all companies with solid earnings will rise when the market is undervalued. You see the market is very predictable when it reaches obvious valuations, both over and under. The reason you say it is unpredictable is because you are entering and exiting too frequently. If all you did was jump in at the bottom of a crash and jump out when it reached lofty valuations you would say it was very predictable






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.

















                      • 1





                        At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                        – Michael
                        12 hours ago














                      1














                      1










                      1









                      I'm not sure why you think it is unpredictable. Good companies do well bad companies do poorly. Virtually all companies will fall when the market is overpriced and wall Street finds a reason to offload. Virtually all companies with solid earnings will rise when the market is undervalued. You see the market is very predictable when it reaches obvious valuations, both over and under. The reason you say it is unpredictable is because you are entering and exiting too frequently. If all you did was jump in at the bottom of a crash and jump out when it reached lofty valuations you would say it was very predictable






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      I'm not sure why you think it is unpredictable. Good companies do well bad companies do poorly. Virtually all companies will fall when the market is overpriced and wall Street finds a reason to offload. Virtually all companies with solid earnings will rise when the market is undervalued. You see the market is very predictable when it reaches obvious valuations, both over and under. The reason you say it is unpredictable is because you are entering and exiting too frequently. If all you did was jump in at the bottom of a crash and jump out when it reached lofty valuations you would say it was very predictable







                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.








                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer






                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.








                      answered yesterday









                      user2127user2127

                      111 bronze badge




                      111 bronze badge




                      New contributor



                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.




                      New contributor




                      user2127 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.













                      • 1





                        At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                        – Michael
                        12 hours ago














                      • 1





                        At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                        – Michael
                        12 hours ago








                      1




                      1





                      At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                      – Michael
                      12 hours ago





                      At the same time, while the general behavior of the market is fairly predictable, the timing of it (for instance, when exactly the bottom of the crash has actually been reached) is not.

                      – Michael
                      12 hours ago











                      1
















                      The elephant in the room missing in the other answers is the irrationality inherent in stock (and other) markets.



                      Sure enough: There are many measurable, rational, "real" things influencing stock value. The monetary value of a company, how we expect the market for their products to develop, how expensive the stock is compared to the company's earnings, capital cost etc.



                      But one of the most influential reasons to buy or sell stock — driving its value up and down — is simply that we expect that stock to rise or fall in value. Speculation is as old as the markets.



                      The feedback loop which is thus established is pretty obvious: Part of the demand for stock has no discernible root in physical or financial reality; instead, it is driven by what other people think, which in turn is strongly influenced by that very stock value development.



                      This is how bubbles expand and burst, with oscillations that are orders of magnitude larger than the effects of the actual tangible operations of a company. Such feedback loops are non-linear and correspondingly hard to predict, and predicting them involves psychology more than economics. Some people do that better than others; you may be interested in Michael Lewis' The Big Short, specifically the story of Michael Burry2, or examine the point in time when Warren Buffet started buying again in 2008 while everybody else thought the world was going to end.1



                      My impression is that it is better for one's nerves to buy an index paper and stick with it ;-).






                      1 Finding the right point in time is like playing chicken which probably already the Neanderthals did with mammoths: If you are early, you are uncool; if you hit the perfect spot you are cool and get the girl; if you are late you are dead. And past successes are at best a weak indicator for the future.

                      2 Although truth be told, Michael Burry's shorting of CDOs was based on hard economics — he was about the only one reading the legally required fine print — and not psychology. He defied speculation arguing that eventually the underlying economic reality would put an end to it. He was right, in the end.






                      share|improve this answer
































                        1
















                        The elephant in the room missing in the other answers is the irrationality inherent in stock (and other) markets.



                        Sure enough: There are many measurable, rational, "real" things influencing stock value. The monetary value of a company, how we expect the market for their products to develop, how expensive the stock is compared to the company's earnings, capital cost etc.



                        But one of the most influential reasons to buy or sell stock — driving its value up and down — is simply that we expect that stock to rise or fall in value. Speculation is as old as the markets.



                        The feedback loop which is thus established is pretty obvious: Part of the demand for stock has no discernible root in physical or financial reality; instead, it is driven by what other people think, which in turn is strongly influenced by that very stock value development.



                        This is how bubbles expand and burst, with oscillations that are orders of magnitude larger than the effects of the actual tangible operations of a company. Such feedback loops are non-linear and correspondingly hard to predict, and predicting them involves psychology more than economics. Some people do that better than others; you may be interested in Michael Lewis' The Big Short, specifically the story of Michael Burry2, or examine the point in time when Warren Buffet started buying again in 2008 while everybody else thought the world was going to end.1



                        My impression is that it is better for one's nerves to buy an index paper and stick with it ;-).






                        1 Finding the right point in time is like playing chicken which probably already the Neanderthals did with mammoths: If you are early, you are uncool; if you hit the perfect spot you are cool and get the girl; if you are late you are dead. And past successes are at best a weak indicator for the future.

                        2 Although truth be told, Michael Burry's shorting of CDOs was based on hard economics — he was about the only one reading the legally required fine print — and not psychology. He defied speculation arguing that eventually the underlying economic reality would put an end to it. He was right, in the end.






                        share|improve this answer






























                          1














                          1










                          1









                          The elephant in the room missing in the other answers is the irrationality inherent in stock (and other) markets.



                          Sure enough: There are many measurable, rational, "real" things influencing stock value. The monetary value of a company, how we expect the market for their products to develop, how expensive the stock is compared to the company's earnings, capital cost etc.



                          But one of the most influential reasons to buy or sell stock — driving its value up and down — is simply that we expect that stock to rise or fall in value. Speculation is as old as the markets.



                          The feedback loop which is thus established is pretty obvious: Part of the demand for stock has no discernible root in physical or financial reality; instead, it is driven by what other people think, which in turn is strongly influenced by that very stock value development.



                          This is how bubbles expand and burst, with oscillations that are orders of magnitude larger than the effects of the actual tangible operations of a company. Such feedback loops are non-linear and correspondingly hard to predict, and predicting them involves psychology more than economics. Some people do that better than others; you may be interested in Michael Lewis' The Big Short, specifically the story of Michael Burry2, or examine the point in time when Warren Buffet started buying again in 2008 while everybody else thought the world was going to end.1



                          My impression is that it is better for one's nerves to buy an index paper and stick with it ;-).






                          1 Finding the right point in time is like playing chicken which probably already the Neanderthals did with mammoths: If you are early, you are uncool; if you hit the perfect spot you are cool and get the girl; if you are late you are dead. And past successes are at best a weak indicator for the future.

                          2 Although truth be told, Michael Burry's shorting of CDOs was based on hard economics — he was about the only one reading the legally required fine print — and not psychology. He defied speculation arguing that eventually the underlying economic reality would put an end to it. He was right, in the end.






                          share|improve this answer















                          The elephant in the room missing in the other answers is the irrationality inherent in stock (and other) markets.



                          Sure enough: There are many measurable, rational, "real" things influencing stock value. The monetary value of a company, how we expect the market for their products to develop, how expensive the stock is compared to the company's earnings, capital cost etc.



                          But one of the most influential reasons to buy or sell stock — driving its value up and down — is simply that we expect that stock to rise or fall in value. Speculation is as old as the markets.



                          The feedback loop which is thus established is pretty obvious: Part of the demand for stock has no discernible root in physical or financial reality; instead, it is driven by what other people think, which in turn is strongly influenced by that very stock value development.



                          This is how bubbles expand and burst, with oscillations that are orders of magnitude larger than the effects of the actual tangible operations of a company. Such feedback loops are non-linear and correspondingly hard to predict, and predicting them involves psychology more than economics. Some people do that better than others; you may be interested in Michael Lewis' The Big Short, specifically the story of Michael Burry2, or examine the point in time when Warren Buffet started buying again in 2008 while everybody else thought the world was going to end.1



                          My impression is that it is better for one's nerves to buy an index paper and stick with it ;-).






                          1 Finding the right point in time is like playing chicken which probably already the Neanderthals did with mammoths: If you are early, you are uncool; if you hit the perfect spot you are cool and get the girl; if you are late you are dead. And past successes are at best a weak indicator for the future.

                          2 Although truth be told, Michael Burry's shorting of CDOs was based on hard economics — he was about the only one reading the legally required fine print — and not psychology. He defied speculation arguing that eventually the underlying economic reality would put an end to it. He was right, in the end.







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited 14 hours ago

























                          answered 14 hours ago









                          Peter A. SchneiderPeter A. Schneider

                          2571 silver badge5 bronze badges




                          2571 silver badge5 bronze badges


























                              0
















                              Three reasons:



                              (a) thin margins



                              Companies sell a product for price P, and buy the stuff/services needed to build the product for price 0.9P. The profit is 0.1P, rather thin. If for some reason customers' willingness to pay decreases by 10%, the whole profit is lost. Thus, in times when economic conditions are not optimal, the company cannot pay dividend. The only reason people invest in stocks is in fact it, namely the dividend. (Some stocks don't pay dividend but their value is based on the expectation that someday they could start paying dividend. Note that dividends are equivalent to share buybacks, so if a company is buying back its shares, it's effectively paying dividend.)



                              (b) supply and demand



                              Prices do vary based on supply and demand of savings instruments. At times when saving money into stocks is trendy, stocks are expensive. At times when spending all of your money is trendy, stocks are cheap. For example, during a recession a huge number of people want to access their savings, driving down prices. If you are countercyclical, you will find that during a recession, you have a huge amount of good investment opportunities at ridiculously low prices.



                              (c) liquidity



                              Stock market is actually a safer investment than e.g. the housing market. See for example this: http://digitalarchive.maastrichtuniversity.nl/fedora/get/guid:cda347a3-7fdf-426e-99a4-1a2c30717764/ASSET1 (links seems to be rather slow as I'm writing this)



                              In this file, it is explained how house prices have gone both up and down. The maximum decrease was 80%. It's about the same than stocks during a very large depression. However, with stocks it's easy to diversify whereas most people have the money to purchase only 1 or perhaps 2 houses. So, due to lack of diversification it generally doesn't make sense to invest money into housing market but rather invest it into stock market.



                              Why people do think stocks are unpredictable and houses are predictable, then? Because stock market is liquid. The 80% crash in real house prices happened over a period of over 35 years between 1778-1779 and 1814-1815. Stocks could crash in few days or less.






                              share|improve this answer


























                              • Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                                – juhist
                                yesterday











                              • Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                                – JoeTaxpayer
                                yesterday






                              • 5





                                The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                                – mhoran_psprep
                                yesterday











                              • @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                                – juhist
                                12 hours ago











                              • The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                                – Michael
                                12 hours ago
















                              0
















                              Three reasons:



                              (a) thin margins



                              Companies sell a product for price P, and buy the stuff/services needed to build the product for price 0.9P. The profit is 0.1P, rather thin. If for some reason customers' willingness to pay decreases by 10%, the whole profit is lost. Thus, in times when economic conditions are not optimal, the company cannot pay dividend. The only reason people invest in stocks is in fact it, namely the dividend. (Some stocks don't pay dividend but their value is based on the expectation that someday they could start paying dividend. Note that dividends are equivalent to share buybacks, so if a company is buying back its shares, it's effectively paying dividend.)



                              (b) supply and demand



                              Prices do vary based on supply and demand of savings instruments. At times when saving money into stocks is trendy, stocks are expensive. At times when spending all of your money is trendy, stocks are cheap. For example, during a recession a huge number of people want to access their savings, driving down prices. If you are countercyclical, you will find that during a recession, you have a huge amount of good investment opportunities at ridiculously low prices.



                              (c) liquidity



                              Stock market is actually a safer investment than e.g. the housing market. See for example this: http://digitalarchive.maastrichtuniversity.nl/fedora/get/guid:cda347a3-7fdf-426e-99a4-1a2c30717764/ASSET1 (links seems to be rather slow as I'm writing this)



                              In this file, it is explained how house prices have gone both up and down. The maximum decrease was 80%. It's about the same than stocks during a very large depression. However, with stocks it's easy to diversify whereas most people have the money to purchase only 1 or perhaps 2 houses. So, due to lack of diversification it generally doesn't make sense to invest money into housing market but rather invest it into stock market.



                              Why people do think stocks are unpredictable and houses are predictable, then? Because stock market is liquid. The 80% crash in real house prices happened over a period of over 35 years between 1778-1779 and 1814-1815. Stocks could crash in few days or less.






                              share|improve this answer


























                              • Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                                – juhist
                                yesterday











                              • Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                                – JoeTaxpayer
                                yesterday






                              • 5





                                The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                                – mhoran_psprep
                                yesterday











                              • @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                                – juhist
                                12 hours ago











                              • The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                                – Michael
                                12 hours ago














                              0














                              0










                              0









                              Three reasons:



                              (a) thin margins



                              Companies sell a product for price P, and buy the stuff/services needed to build the product for price 0.9P. The profit is 0.1P, rather thin. If for some reason customers' willingness to pay decreases by 10%, the whole profit is lost. Thus, in times when economic conditions are not optimal, the company cannot pay dividend. The only reason people invest in stocks is in fact it, namely the dividend. (Some stocks don't pay dividend but their value is based on the expectation that someday they could start paying dividend. Note that dividends are equivalent to share buybacks, so if a company is buying back its shares, it's effectively paying dividend.)



                              (b) supply and demand



                              Prices do vary based on supply and demand of savings instruments. At times when saving money into stocks is trendy, stocks are expensive. At times when spending all of your money is trendy, stocks are cheap. For example, during a recession a huge number of people want to access their savings, driving down prices. If you are countercyclical, you will find that during a recession, you have a huge amount of good investment opportunities at ridiculously low prices.



                              (c) liquidity



                              Stock market is actually a safer investment than e.g. the housing market. See for example this: http://digitalarchive.maastrichtuniversity.nl/fedora/get/guid:cda347a3-7fdf-426e-99a4-1a2c30717764/ASSET1 (links seems to be rather slow as I'm writing this)



                              In this file, it is explained how house prices have gone both up and down. The maximum decrease was 80%. It's about the same than stocks during a very large depression. However, with stocks it's easy to diversify whereas most people have the money to purchase only 1 or perhaps 2 houses. So, due to lack of diversification it generally doesn't make sense to invest money into housing market but rather invest it into stock market.



                              Why people do think stocks are unpredictable and houses are predictable, then? Because stock market is liquid. The 80% crash in real house prices happened over a period of over 35 years between 1778-1779 and 1814-1815. Stocks could crash in few days or less.






                              share|improve this answer













                              Three reasons:



                              (a) thin margins



                              Companies sell a product for price P, and buy the stuff/services needed to build the product for price 0.9P. The profit is 0.1P, rather thin. If for some reason customers' willingness to pay decreases by 10%, the whole profit is lost. Thus, in times when economic conditions are not optimal, the company cannot pay dividend. The only reason people invest in stocks is in fact it, namely the dividend. (Some stocks don't pay dividend but their value is based on the expectation that someday they could start paying dividend. Note that dividends are equivalent to share buybacks, so if a company is buying back its shares, it's effectively paying dividend.)



                              (b) supply and demand



                              Prices do vary based on supply and demand of savings instruments. At times when saving money into stocks is trendy, stocks are expensive. At times when spending all of your money is trendy, stocks are cheap. For example, during a recession a huge number of people want to access their savings, driving down prices. If you are countercyclical, you will find that during a recession, you have a huge amount of good investment opportunities at ridiculously low prices.



                              (c) liquidity



                              Stock market is actually a safer investment than e.g. the housing market. See for example this: http://digitalarchive.maastrichtuniversity.nl/fedora/get/guid:cda347a3-7fdf-426e-99a4-1a2c30717764/ASSET1 (links seems to be rather slow as I'm writing this)



                              In this file, it is explained how house prices have gone both up and down. The maximum decrease was 80%. It's about the same than stocks during a very large depression. However, with stocks it's easy to diversify whereas most people have the money to purchase only 1 or perhaps 2 houses. So, due to lack of diversification it generally doesn't make sense to invest money into housing market but rather invest it into stock market.



                              Why people do think stocks are unpredictable and houses are predictable, then? Because stock market is liquid. The 80% crash in real house prices happened over a period of over 35 years between 1778-1779 and 1814-1815. Stocks could crash in few days or less.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered yesterday









                              juhistjuhist

                              1,9625 silver badges13 bronze badges




                              1,9625 silver badges13 bronze badges
















                              • Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                                – juhist
                                yesterday











                              • Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                                – JoeTaxpayer
                                yesterday






                              • 5





                                The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                                – mhoran_psprep
                                yesterday











                              • @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                                – juhist
                                12 hours ago











                              • The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                                – Michael
                                12 hours ago



















                              • Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                                – juhist
                                yesterday











                              • Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                                – JoeTaxpayer
                                yesterday






                              • 5





                                The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                                – mhoran_psprep
                                yesterday











                              • @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                                – juhist
                                12 hours ago











                              • The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                                – Michael
                                12 hours ago

















                              Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                              – juhist
                              yesterday





                              Oh how I like the unexplained downvotes.

                              – juhist
                              yesterday













                              Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                              – JoeTaxpayer
                              yesterday





                              Join the club. Keep in mind, a member doesn’t need any reason to vote either up or down. I upvoted, as your answer addresses the stone in the pond effect pretty well. I.e. any unknown event can cause a ripple, in one company or entire market.

                              – JoeTaxpayer
                              yesterday




                              5




                              5





                              The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                              – mhoran_psprep
                              yesterday





                              The only reason why people invest in stocks is the dividends?

                              – mhoran_psprep
                              yesterday













                              @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                              – juhist
                              12 hours ago





                              @mhoran_psprep Yes. The value of a stock is the net present value of all future cash dividends (and dividend equivalents like buybacks, which are equivalent to dividends). A non-dividend-paying stock like Berkshire Hathaway has value because someday, let's say in 100 years, it will have to start paying dividend. There is no Greater Fool, so don't believe in the Greater Fool Theory!

                              – juhist
                              12 hours ago













                              The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                              – Michael
                              12 hours ago





                              The Louisiana Purchase (1803) nearly doubled the available land, no doubt contributing to the decline in real estate values. Ironically, the person who was behind it personally suffered a great deal because of it.

                              – Michael
                              12 hours ago











                              0

















                              So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




                              Stocks are, in essence, just a commodity to be bought and sold. And that means you have a price.



                              A price is simply a value we assign something (and we tend to go based on someone being willing to pay said price, not the pure opinion of the previous owner). Prices can be volatile. Milk might cost $3 per gallon, but what if some disease wipes out half the cows that make the milk? The price of milk goes up. Is there any way to predict that? And that's assuming we only have one factor driving the price to change.



                              Prices contain too much information to process meaningfully




                              Why prices are a mystery isn’t a mystery. The why of prices — or at least all the whys of prices — are simply unknowable. Sure, you might be able to know why person X wants $28.99 for his vintage Batman talking alarm clock while another person wants $80.99 for the same masterpiece, but you can’t know all the reasons why it originally sold for $9.99. Once you make your peace with that fact, the mystery ceases being mysterious.



                              What I think is fascinating is that prices aren’t unique. We think they are a category unto themselves. A price isn’t like anything else, right? Well, wrong — maybe. If prices are simply the agglomeration of disparate and complex information boiled down to a number, can’t other things be agglomerations of disparate and complex information boiled down to something else?



                              Anyway, the point I’m getting at is that there’s nothing — nothing — that we say, do, own, make, or believe that isn’t brimming with all of the sorts of information that go into a price.




                              The stock market is driven by a myriad of forces and interests. I have money in there for my retirement. Warren Buffet has money in there make money for other people. John Doe has money in there because he likes owning a certain brand of stock. Different goals. Maybe Warren Buffet dumps his stock in Company X, which drives the price down, while John hangs on to his no matter the price. Or maybe a bug in stock trading software causes havoc




                              When the market opened at 9:30 AM people quickly knew something was wrong. By 9:31 AM it was evident to many people on Wall Street that something serious was happening. The market was being flooded with orders out of the ordinary for regular trading volumes on certain stocks. By 9:32 AM many people on Wall Street were wondering why it hadn’t stopped. This was an eternity in high-speed trading terms. Why hadn’t someone hit the kill-switch on whatever system was doing this? As it turns out there was no kill switch. During the first 45-minutes of trading Knight’s executions constituted more than 50% of the trading volume, driving certain stocks up over 10% of their value. As a result other stocks decreased in value in response to the erroneous trades.




                              TL;DR



                              Stocks are based on prices (what people are willing to pay for them). Prices are based on too much information to know why they are priced the way they are at any given moment. Stocks are based on even more information than most commodities.






                              share|improve this answer






























                                0

















                                So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




                                Stocks are, in essence, just a commodity to be bought and sold. And that means you have a price.



                                A price is simply a value we assign something (and we tend to go based on someone being willing to pay said price, not the pure opinion of the previous owner). Prices can be volatile. Milk might cost $3 per gallon, but what if some disease wipes out half the cows that make the milk? The price of milk goes up. Is there any way to predict that? And that's assuming we only have one factor driving the price to change.



                                Prices contain too much information to process meaningfully




                                Why prices are a mystery isn’t a mystery. The why of prices — or at least all the whys of prices — are simply unknowable. Sure, you might be able to know why person X wants $28.99 for his vintage Batman talking alarm clock while another person wants $80.99 for the same masterpiece, but you can’t know all the reasons why it originally sold for $9.99. Once you make your peace with that fact, the mystery ceases being mysterious.



                                What I think is fascinating is that prices aren’t unique. We think they are a category unto themselves. A price isn’t like anything else, right? Well, wrong — maybe. If prices are simply the agglomeration of disparate and complex information boiled down to a number, can’t other things be agglomerations of disparate and complex information boiled down to something else?



                                Anyway, the point I’m getting at is that there’s nothing — nothing — that we say, do, own, make, or believe that isn’t brimming with all of the sorts of information that go into a price.




                                The stock market is driven by a myriad of forces and interests. I have money in there for my retirement. Warren Buffet has money in there make money for other people. John Doe has money in there because he likes owning a certain brand of stock. Different goals. Maybe Warren Buffet dumps his stock in Company X, which drives the price down, while John hangs on to his no matter the price. Or maybe a bug in stock trading software causes havoc




                                When the market opened at 9:30 AM people quickly knew something was wrong. By 9:31 AM it was evident to many people on Wall Street that something serious was happening. The market was being flooded with orders out of the ordinary for regular trading volumes on certain stocks. By 9:32 AM many people on Wall Street were wondering why it hadn’t stopped. This was an eternity in high-speed trading terms. Why hadn’t someone hit the kill-switch on whatever system was doing this? As it turns out there was no kill switch. During the first 45-minutes of trading Knight’s executions constituted more than 50% of the trading volume, driving certain stocks up over 10% of their value. As a result other stocks decreased in value in response to the erroneous trades.




                                TL;DR



                                Stocks are based on prices (what people are willing to pay for them). Prices are based on too much information to know why they are priced the way they are at any given moment. Stocks are based on even more information than most commodities.






                                share|improve this answer




























                                  0














                                  0










                                  0










                                  So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




                                  Stocks are, in essence, just a commodity to be bought and sold. And that means you have a price.



                                  A price is simply a value we assign something (and we tend to go based on someone being willing to pay said price, not the pure opinion of the previous owner). Prices can be volatile. Milk might cost $3 per gallon, but what if some disease wipes out half the cows that make the milk? The price of milk goes up. Is there any way to predict that? And that's assuming we only have one factor driving the price to change.



                                  Prices contain too much information to process meaningfully




                                  Why prices are a mystery isn’t a mystery. The why of prices — or at least all the whys of prices — are simply unknowable. Sure, you might be able to know why person X wants $28.99 for his vintage Batman talking alarm clock while another person wants $80.99 for the same masterpiece, but you can’t know all the reasons why it originally sold for $9.99. Once you make your peace with that fact, the mystery ceases being mysterious.



                                  What I think is fascinating is that prices aren’t unique. We think they are a category unto themselves. A price isn’t like anything else, right? Well, wrong — maybe. If prices are simply the agglomeration of disparate and complex information boiled down to a number, can’t other things be agglomerations of disparate and complex information boiled down to something else?



                                  Anyway, the point I’m getting at is that there’s nothing — nothing — that we say, do, own, make, or believe that isn’t brimming with all of the sorts of information that go into a price.




                                  The stock market is driven by a myriad of forces and interests. I have money in there for my retirement. Warren Buffet has money in there make money for other people. John Doe has money in there because he likes owning a certain brand of stock. Different goals. Maybe Warren Buffet dumps his stock in Company X, which drives the price down, while John hangs on to his no matter the price. Or maybe a bug in stock trading software causes havoc




                                  When the market opened at 9:30 AM people quickly knew something was wrong. By 9:31 AM it was evident to many people on Wall Street that something serious was happening. The market was being flooded with orders out of the ordinary for regular trading volumes on certain stocks. By 9:32 AM many people on Wall Street were wondering why it hadn’t stopped. This was an eternity in high-speed trading terms. Why hadn’t someone hit the kill-switch on whatever system was doing this? As it turns out there was no kill switch. During the first 45-minutes of trading Knight’s executions constituted more than 50% of the trading volume, driving certain stocks up over 10% of their value. As a result other stocks decreased in value in response to the erroneous trades.




                                  TL;DR



                                  Stocks are based on prices (what people are willing to pay for them). Prices are based on too much information to know why they are priced the way they are at any given moment. Stocks are based on even more information than most commodities.






                                  share|improve this answer














                                  So if we have a good model about how. People behave on a day to day basis, why can't this be transferred to stocks?




                                  Stocks are, in essence, just a commodity to be bought and sold. And that means you have a price.



                                  A price is simply a value we assign something (and we tend to go based on someone being willing to pay said price, not the pure opinion of the previous owner). Prices can be volatile. Milk might cost $3 per gallon, but what if some disease wipes out half the cows that make the milk? The price of milk goes up. Is there any way to predict that? And that's assuming we only have one factor driving the price to change.



                                  Prices contain too much information to process meaningfully




                                  Why prices are a mystery isn’t a mystery. The why of prices — or at least all the whys of prices — are simply unknowable. Sure, you might be able to know why person X wants $28.99 for his vintage Batman talking alarm clock while another person wants $80.99 for the same masterpiece, but you can’t know all the reasons why it originally sold for $9.99. Once you make your peace with that fact, the mystery ceases being mysterious.



                                  What I think is fascinating is that prices aren’t unique. We think they are a category unto themselves. A price isn’t like anything else, right? Well, wrong — maybe. If prices are simply the agglomeration of disparate and complex information boiled down to a number, can’t other things be agglomerations of disparate and complex information boiled down to something else?



                                  Anyway, the point I’m getting at is that there’s nothing — nothing — that we say, do, own, make, or believe that isn’t brimming with all of the sorts of information that go into a price.




                                  The stock market is driven by a myriad of forces and interests. I have money in there for my retirement. Warren Buffet has money in there make money for other people. John Doe has money in there because he likes owning a certain brand of stock. Different goals. Maybe Warren Buffet dumps his stock in Company X, which drives the price down, while John hangs on to his no matter the price. Or maybe a bug in stock trading software causes havoc




                                  When the market opened at 9:30 AM people quickly knew something was wrong. By 9:31 AM it was evident to many people on Wall Street that something serious was happening. The market was being flooded with orders out of the ordinary for regular trading volumes on certain stocks. By 9:32 AM many people on Wall Street were wondering why it hadn’t stopped. This was an eternity in high-speed trading terms. Why hadn’t someone hit the kill-switch on whatever system was doing this? As it turns out there was no kill switch. During the first 45-minutes of trading Knight’s executions constituted more than 50% of the trading volume, driving certain stocks up over 10% of their value. As a result other stocks decreased in value in response to the erroneous trades.




                                  TL;DR



                                  Stocks are based on prices (what people are willing to pay for them). Prices are based on too much information to know why they are priced the way they are at any given moment. Stocks are based on even more information than most commodities.







                                  share|improve this answer












                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer










                                  answered 13 hours ago









                                  MachavityMachavity

                                  32210 bronze badges




                                  32210 bronze badges


























                                      0
















                                      There are two types of prediction problems typically.



                                      The level 1 prediction models are for things like weather - one could predict something, wait and observe, and then correct the error for next prediction. The key aspect is the fact whether it would or would not rain on a certain day is not dependent, i.e., it does not change, due to the prediction (that it is going to rain, or it is not going to rain).



                                      However level 2 predictions are harder - which is precisely the stock market. Even if one develops an excellent model that predicts how the stock market is going to behave, the moment somebody actually starts using the model to buy and sell stocks - the market "sees" the increased buying/selling of a certain stock, and corrects itself appropriately. Soon this excellent model becomes obsolete.



                                      And the duration for which this excellent model predicted the stock behavior correctly could be really small, that its short term success is pretty much indistinguishable from noise.






                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor



                                      Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.


























                                        0
















                                        There are two types of prediction problems typically.



                                        The level 1 prediction models are for things like weather - one could predict something, wait and observe, and then correct the error for next prediction. The key aspect is the fact whether it would or would not rain on a certain day is not dependent, i.e., it does not change, due to the prediction (that it is going to rain, or it is not going to rain).



                                        However level 2 predictions are harder - which is precisely the stock market. Even if one develops an excellent model that predicts how the stock market is going to behave, the moment somebody actually starts using the model to buy and sell stocks - the market "sees" the increased buying/selling of a certain stock, and corrects itself appropriately. Soon this excellent model becomes obsolete.



                                        And the duration for which this excellent model predicted the stock behavior correctly could be really small, that its short term success is pretty much indistinguishable from noise.






                                        share|improve this answer








                                        New contributor



                                        Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                                          0














                                          0










                                          0









                                          There are two types of prediction problems typically.



                                          The level 1 prediction models are for things like weather - one could predict something, wait and observe, and then correct the error for next prediction. The key aspect is the fact whether it would or would not rain on a certain day is not dependent, i.e., it does not change, due to the prediction (that it is going to rain, or it is not going to rain).



                                          However level 2 predictions are harder - which is precisely the stock market. Even if one develops an excellent model that predicts how the stock market is going to behave, the moment somebody actually starts using the model to buy and sell stocks - the market "sees" the increased buying/selling of a certain stock, and corrects itself appropriately. Soon this excellent model becomes obsolete.



                                          And the duration for which this excellent model predicted the stock behavior correctly could be really small, that its short term success is pretty much indistinguishable from noise.






                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor



                                          Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          There are two types of prediction problems typically.



                                          The level 1 prediction models are for things like weather - one could predict something, wait and observe, and then correct the error for next prediction. The key aspect is the fact whether it would or would not rain on a certain day is not dependent, i.e., it does not change, due to the prediction (that it is going to rain, or it is not going to rain).



                                          However level 2 predictions are harder - which is precisely the stock market. Even if one develops an excellent model that predicts how the stock market is going to behave, the moment somebody actually starts using the model to buy and sell stocks - the market "sees" the increased buying/selling of a certain stock, and corrects itself appropriately. Soon this excellent model becomes obsolete.



                                          And the duration for which this excellent model predicted the stock behavior correctly could be really small, that its short term success is pretty much indistinguishable from noise.







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor



                                          Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor



                                          Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                                          answered 13 hours ago









                                          SriramSriram

                                          1011 bronze badge




                                          1011 bronze badge




                                          New contributor



                                          Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




                                          New contributor




                                          Sriram is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




























                                              0
















                                              A term that has been used to describe the stock market is anti-inductive. See https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/h24JGbmweNpWZfBkM/markets-are-anti-inductive and
                                              https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ . Our knowledge of a planet's orbit doesn't affect it. So we can learn more about an orbit, and then the orbit will be easier to predict. But with the market, learning about it changes its behavior. Whenever we learn more about the market, ;people act on that information, changing the market. So the more people work on trying to understand the market, the more people are affecting the market, and the harder it is to understand the market. Unlike with predicting planet's orbits, when you predict the market, you have to include the behavior of people, and people will be reacting to your analysis of them market. So your predictions have to predict the actions of people reacting to analysis that predict the behavior of people reacting to analysis that predicts ... and so on.If one person happens to be better than everyone else at analyzing the market, then they might be successful in predicting it. But people in general can't predict the market, because the average person, by definition, isn't any better than any other average person, so if one average person can figure out that stock will go up, then every other average person can figure that out too and bid the price up. Stock market fluctuations represent the unpredicted parts of the economy. If they were predicted, then they would have already been included in the price. We can't predict market fluctuations because the fluctuations are by definition what isn't predicted.






                                              share|improve this answer


























                                              • Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                                – Joshua
                                                3 hours ago
















                                              0
















                                              A term that has been used to describe the stock market is anti-inductive. See https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/h24JGbmweNpWZfBkM/markets-are-anti-inductive and
                                              https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ . Our knowledge of a planet's orbit doesn't affect it. So we can learn more about an orbit, and then the orbit will be easier to predict. But with the market, learning about it changes its behavior. Whenever we learn more about the market, ;people act on that information, changing the market. So the more people work on trying to understand the market, the more people are affecting the market, and the harder it is to understand the market. Unlike with predicting planet's orbits, when you predict the market, you have to include the behavior of people, and people will be reacting to your analysis of them market. So your predictions have to predict the actions of people reacting to analysis that predict the behavior of people reacting to analysis that predicts ... and so on.If one person happens to be better than everyone else at analyzing the market, then they might be successful in predicting it. But people in general can't predict the market, because the average person, by definition, isn't any better than any other average person, so if one average person can figure out that stock will go up, then every other average person can figure that out too and bid the price up. Stock market fluctuations represent the unpredicted parts of the economy. If they were predicted, then they would have already been included in the price. We can't predict market fluctuations because the fluctuations are by definition what isn't predicted.






                                              share|improve this answer


























                                              • Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                                – Joshua
                                                3 hours ago














                                              0














                                              0










                                              0









                                              A term that has been used to describe the stock market is anti-inductive. See https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/h24JGbmweNpWZfBkM/markets-are-anti-inductive and
                                              https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ . Our knowledge of a planet's orbit doesn't affect it. So we can learn more about an orbit, and then the orbit will be easier to predict. But with the market, learning about it changes its behavior. Whenever we learn more about the market, ;people act on that information, changing the market. So the more people work on trying to understand the market, the more people are affecting the market, and the harder it is to understand the market. Unlike with predicting planet's orbits, when you predict the market, you have to include the behavior of people, and people will be reacting to your analysis of them market. So your predictions have to predict the actions of people reacting to analysis that predict the behavior of people reacting to analysis that predicts ... and so on.If one person happens to be better than everyone else at analyzing the market, then they might be successful in predicting it. But people in general can't predict the market, because the average person, by definition, isn't any better than any other average person, so if one average person can figure out that stock will go up, then every other average person can figure that out too and bid the price up. Stock market fluctuations represent the unpredicted parts of the economy. If they were predicted, then they would have already been included in the price. We can't predict market fluctuations because the fluctuations are by definition what isn't predicted.






                                              share|improve this answer













                                              A term that has been used to describe the stock market is anti-inductive. See https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/h24JGbmweNpWZfBkM/markets-are-anti-inductive and
                                              https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ . Our knowledge of a planet's orbit doesn't affect it. So we can learn more about an orbit, and then the orbit will be easier to predict. But with the market, learning about it changes its behavior. Whenever we learn more about the market, ;people act on that information, changing the market. So the more people work on trying to understand the market, the more people are affecting the market, and the harder it is to understand the market. Unlike with predicting planet's orbits, when you predict the market, you have to include the behavior of people, and people will be reacting to your analysis of them market. So your predictions have to predict the actions of people reacting to analysis that predict the behavior of people reacting to analysis that predicts ... and so on.If one person happens to be better than everyone else at analyzing the market, then they might be successful in predicting it. But people in general can't predict the market, because the average person, by definition, isn't any better than any other average person, so if one average person can figure out that stock will go up, then every other average person can figure that out too and bid the price up. Stock market fluctuations represent the unpredicted parts of the economy. If they were predicted, then they would have already been included in the price. We can't predict market fluctuations because the fluctuations are by definition what isn't predicted.







                                              share|improve this answer












                                              share|improve this answer



                                              share|improve this answer










                                              answered 9 hours ago









                                              AcccumulationAcccumulation

                                              5,3369 silver badges22 bronze badges




                                              5,3369 silver badges22 bronze badges
















                                              • Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                                – Joshua
                                                3 hours ago



















                                              • Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                                – Joshua
                                                3 hours ago

















                                              Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                              – Joshua
                                              3 hours ago





                                              Oh hey a less wrong link. While this summary is true I have a hard time believing it's the primary variable. I have reasonably certain knowledge that the equations that govern the market resist curve-fitting so even given the indicative form you would have a hard time profiting from it.

                                              – Joshua
                                              3 hours ago











                                              0

















                                              Why is the stock market so unpredictable? ...most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




                                              If you mean overall and you mean in the long run then the US stock market is predictable.



                                              It is like how people are predictable in large numbers - what a random person will do is not predictable.



                                              At a US theme park (like Disney) people, when given a choice, will tend to turn right instead of left. That can be established as fact, because people study this stuff and that is what they've found.

                                              That does not mean that you can predict whether a specific person will choose to go to the left or right at a specific place.



                                              The stock market is the same:

                                              A certified financial planner will likely tell you that, "If you will need the money in the next five years, you probably should not put it in the stock market."



                                              Why would they say that?

                                              Because if you look at mutual funds with 10+ year track records, you'll find that they have a positive return in almost all periods of five consecutive years of their history.

                                              (four point something times out of five if I remember correctly)



                                              TL;DR;

                                              The stock market is very likely to go up if you are looking at period of five or more consecutive years.



                                              What a particular stock will do is anybody's guess...

                                              and they're all guessing differently...

                                              and people change their guess from one day to the next...

                                              and that is what sets the price...

                                              which why a particular stock moves so erratically...

                                              But... over time (measured in years)... the market goes up :-)






                                              share|improve this answer






























                                                0

















                                                Why is the stock market so unpredictable? ...most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




                                                If you mean overall and you mean in the long run then the US stock market is predictable.



                                                It is like how people are predictable in large numbers - what a random person will do is not predictable.



                                                At a US theme park (like Disney) people, when given a choice, will tend to turn right instead of left. That can be established as fact, because people study this stuff and that is what they've found.

                                                That does not mean that you can predict whether a specific person will choose to go to the left or right at a specific place.



                                                The stock market is the same:

                                                A certified financial planner will likely tell you that, "If you will need the money in the next five years, you probably should not put it in the stock market."



                                                Why would they say that?

                                                Because if you look at mutual funds with 10+ year track records, you'll find that they have a positive return in almost all periods of five consecutive years of their history.

                                                (four point something times out of five if I remember correctly)



                                                TL;DR;

                                                The stock market is very likely to go up if you are looking at period of five or more consecutive years.



                                                What a particular stock will do is anybody's guess...

                                                and they're all guessing differently...

                                                and people change their guess from one day to the next...

                                                and that is what sets the price...

                                                which why a particular stock moves so erratically...

                                                But... over time (measured in years)... the market goes up :-)






                                                share|improve this answer




























                                                  0














                                                  0










                                                  0










                                                  Why is the stock market so unpredictable? ...most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




                                                  If you mean overall and you mean in the long run then the US stock market is predictable.



                                                  It is like how people are predictable in large numbers - what a random person will do is not predictable.



                                                  At a US theme park (like Disney) people, when given a choice, will tend to turn right instead of left. That can be established as fact, because people study this stuff and that is what they've found.

                                                  That does not mean that you can predict whether a specific person will choose to go to the left or right at a specific place.



                                                  The stock market is the same:

                                                  A certified financial planner will likely tell you that, "If you will need the money in the next five years, you probably should not put it in the stock market."



                                                  Why would they say that?

                                                  Because if you look at mutual funds with 10+ year track records, you'll find that they have a positive return in almost all periods of five consecutive years of their history.

                                                  (four point something times out of five if I remember correctly)



                                                  TL;DR;

                                                  The stock market is very likely to go up if you are looking at period of five or more consecutive years.



                                                  What a particular stock will do is anybody's guess...

                                                  and they're all guessing differently...

                                                  and people change their guess from one day to the next...

                                                  and that is what sets the price...

                                                  which why a particular stock moves so erratically...

                                                  But... over time (measured in years)... the market goes up :-)






                                                  share|improve this answer














                                                  Why is the stock market so unpredictable? ...most of the things we do in a day are pretty predictable.




                                                  If you mean overall and you mean in the long run then the US stock market is predictable.



                                                  It is like how people are predictable in large numbers - what a random person will do is not predictable.



                                                  At a US theme park (like Disney) people, when given a choice, will tend to turn right instead of left. That can be established as fact, because people study this stuff and that is what they've found.

                                                  That does not mean that you can predict whether a specific person will choose to go to the left or right at a specific place.



                                                  The stock market is the same:

                                                  A certified financial planner will likely tell you that, "If you will need the money in the next five years, you probably should not put it in the stock market."



                                                  Why would they say that?

                                                  Because if you look at mutual funds with 10+ year track records, you'll find that they have a positive return in almost all periods of five consecutive years of their history.

                                                  (four point something times out of five if I remember correctly)



                                                  TL;DR;

                                                  The stock market is very likely to go up if you are looking at period of five or more consecutive years.



                                                  What a particular stock will do is anybody's guess...

                                                  and they're all guessing differently...

                                                  and people change their guess from one day to the next...

                                                  and that is what sets the price...

                                                  which why a particular stock moves so erratically...

                                                  But... over time (measured in years)... the market goes up :-)







                                                  share|improve this answer












                                                  share|improve this answer



                                                  share|improve this answer










                                                  answered 7 hours ago









                                                  J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton

                                                  1,2252 silver badges12 bronze badges




                                                  1,2252 silver badges12 bronze badges


























                                                      0
















                                                      There are two related reasons. The first is that if today's price is equal to yesterday's prices times a reward plus an appraisal error then the resulting difference equation can be proven to be intrinsically unstable, p(t+1)=Rx(t)+e(t+1). As long as the appraisal error has finite variance centered on zero, then any Frequentist statistical estimator will have no predictive power at all.



                                                      The second reason is that if an equilibrium price exists at each moment in time and the equilibrium reward plus a shock is the true reward then the distribution of returns around the equilibrium return will be the truncated Cauchy distribution if you have factored out liquidity risks, dividend risks, merger risks, and bankruptcy risks.



                                                      The Cauchy distribution is unusual in that it cannot have an average. You can always calculate the sample average but it won't ever settle down and converge to the true center of the distribution, which for stocks is the mode.



                                                      John Cook provides a graphical example of the difference of the behavior of the sample mean of a Cauchy distribution and the mean of the normal distribution. You can find it at Cauchy versus Normal



                                                      The mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot classified the behavior of random variables as having seven classifications. The type you generally encounter in day-to-day life is proper mild randomness. Equity security returns are the seventh class of randomness, which is extreme randomness.



                                                      In fact, you can predict things in equity markets. You can only use Bayesian methods. For a variety of reasons, it can be shown that it would be profoundly unwise to use a Frequentist methodology, but most do because it is what they know.



                                                      The difficulty is that most people try to predict things using Frequentist methods of proper mild randomness rather than Bayesian methods for extreme randomness. That includes professionals.



                                                      As there is no way to use MathML in this forum but I am about to produce a resource you could use though it is intended for those with doctorates in statistics, mathematics, finance, and economics. I will try and remember to post a link to it when it is in its final form. Elements of it could be used by anyone with a basic understanding of probability and basic calculus methods.



                                                      The physicist and statistical polemicist E.T. Jaynes wrote that had the first problems in statistics involved the Cauchy distribution the trajectory of the field of statistics would have been radically different.






                                                      share|improve this answer






























                                                        0
















                                                        There are two related reasons. The first is that if today's price is equal to yesterday's prices times a reward plus an appraisal error then the resulting difference equation can be proven to be intrinsically unstable, p(t+1)=Rx(t)+e(t+1). As long as the appraisal error has finite variance centered on zero, then any Frequentist statistical estimator will have no predictive power at all.



                                                        The second reason is that if an equilibrium price exists at each moment in time and the equilibrium reward plus a shock is the true reward then the distribution of returns around the equilibrium return will be the truncated Cauchy distribution if you have factored out liquidity risks, dividend risks, merger risks, and bankruptcy risks.



                                                        The Cauchy distribution is unusual in that it cannot have an average. You can always calculate the sample average but it won't ever settle down and converge to the true center of the distribution, which for stocks is the mode.



                                                        John Cook provides a graphical example of the difference of the behavior of the sample mean of a Cauchy distribution and the mean of the normal distribution. You can find it at Cauchy versus Normal



                                                        The mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot classified the behavior of random variables as having seven classifications. The type you generally encounter in day-to-day life is proper mild randomness. Equity security returns are the seventh class of randomness, which is extreme randomness.



                                                        In fact, you can predict things in equity markets. You can only use Bayesian methods. For a variety of reasons, it can be shown that it would be profoundly unwise to use a Frequentist methodology, but most do because it is what they know.



                                                        The difficulty is that most people try to predict things using Frequentist methods of proper mild randomness rather than Bayesian methods for extreme randomness. That includes professionals.



                                                        As there is no way to use MathML in this forum but I am about to produce a resource you could use though it is intended for those with doctorates in statistics, mathematics, finance, and economics. I will try and remember to post a link to it when it is in its final form. Elements of it could be used by anyone with a basic understanding of probability and basic calculus methods.



                                                        The physicist and statistical polemicist E.T. Jaynes wrote that had the first problems in statistics involved the Cauchy distribution the trajectory of the field of statistics would have been radically different.






                                                        share|improve this answer




























                                                          0














                                                          0










                                                          0









                                                          There are two related reasons. The first is that if today's price is equal to yesterday's prices times a reward plus an appraisal error then the resulting difference equation can be proven to be intrinsically unstable, p(t+1)=Rx(t)+e(t+1). As long as the appraisal error has finite variance centered on zero, then any Frequentist statistical estimator will have no predictive power at all.



                                                          The second reason is that if an equilibrium price exists at each moment in time and the equilibrium reward plus a shock is the true reward then the distribution of returns around the equilibrium return will be the truncated Cauchy distribution if you have factored out liquidity risks, dividend risks, merger risks, and bankruptcy risks.



                                                          The Cauchy distribution is unusual in that it cannot have an average. You can always calculate the sample average but it won't ever settle down and converge to the true center of the distribution, which for stocks is the mode.



                                                          John Cook provides a graphical example of the difference of the behavior of the sample mean of a Cauchy distribution and the mean of the normal distribution. You can find it at Cauchy versus Normal



                                                          The mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot classified the behavior of random variables as having seven classifications. The type you generally encounter in day-to-day life is proper mild randomness. Equity security returns are the seventh class of randomness, which is extreme randomness.



                                                          In fact, you can predict things in equity markets. You can only use Bayesian methods. For a variety of reasons, it can be shown that it would be profoundly unwise to use a Frequentist methodology, but most do because it is what they know.



                                                          The difficulty is that most people try to predict things using Frequentist methods of proper mild randomness rather than Bayesian methods for extreme randomness. That includes professionals.



                                                          As there is no way to use MathML in this forum but I am about to produce a resource you could use though it is intended for those with doctorates in statistics, mathematics, finance, and economics. I will try and remember to post a link to it when it is in its final form. Elements of it could be used by anyone with a basic understanding of probability and basic calculus methods.



                                                          The physicist and statistical polemicist E.T. Jaynes wrote that had the first problems in statistics involved the Cauchy distribution the trajectory of the field of statistics would have been radically different.






                                                          share|improve this answer













                                                          There are two related reasons. The first is that if today's price is equal to yesterday's prices times a reward plus an appraisal error then the resulting difference equation can be proven to be intrinsically unstable, p(t+1)=Rx(t)+e(t+1). As long as the appraisal error has finite variance centered on zero, then any Frequentist statistical estimator will have no predictive power at all.



                                                          The second reason is that if an equilibrium price exists at each moment in time and the equilibrium reward plus a shock is the true reward then the distribution of returns around the equilibrium return will be the truncated Cauchy distribution if you have factored out liquidity risks, dividend risks, merger risks, and bankruptcy risks.



                                                          The Cauchy distribution is unusual in that it cannot have an average. You can always calculate the sample average but it won't ever settle down and converge to the true center of the distribution, which for stocks is the mode.



                                                          John Cook provides a graphical example of the difference of the behavior of the sample mean of a Cauchy distribution and the mean of the normal distribution. You can find it at Cauchy versus Normal



                                                          The mathematician Benoit Mandelbrot classified the behavior of random variables as having seven classifications. The type you generally encounter in day-to-day life is proper mild randomness. Equity security returns are the seventh class of randomness, which is extreme randomness.



                                                          In fact, you can predict things in equity markets. You can only use Bayesian methods. For a variety of reasons, it can be shown that it would be profoundly unwise to use a Frequentist methodology, but most do because it is what they know.



                                                          The difficulty is that most people try to predict things using Frequentist methods of proper mild randomness rather than Bayesian methods for extreme randomness. That includes professionals.



                                                          As there is no way to use MathML in this forum but I am about to produce a resource you could use though it is intended for those with doctorates in statistics, mathematics, finance, and economics. I will try and remember to post a link to it when it is in its final form. Elements of it could be used by anyone with a basic understanding of probability and basic calculus methods.



                                                          The physicist and statistical polemicist E.T. Jaynes wrote that had the first problems in statistics involved the Cauchy distribution the trajectory of the field of statistics would have been radically different.







                                                          share|improve this answer












                                                          share|improve this answer



                                                          share|improve this answer










                                                          answered 1 hour ago









                                                          Dave HarrisDave Harris

                                                          2,2094 silver badges12 bronze badges




                                                          2,2094 silver badges12 bronze badges




















                                                              protected by Ganesh Sittampalam 5 hours ago



                                                              Thank you for your interest in this question.
                                                              Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                                                              Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?



                                                              Popular posts from this blog

                                                              Taj Mahal Inhaltsverzeichnis Aufbau | Geschichte | 350-Jahr-Feier | Heutige Bedeutung | Siehe auch |...

                                                              Baia Sprie Cuprins Etimologie | Istorie | Demografie | Politică și administrație | Arii naturale...

                                                              Nicolae Petrescu-Găină Cuprins Biografie | Opera | In memoriam | Varia | Controverse, incertitudini...