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Writing a love interest for my hero
How do I balance work with my love of writing?Legal ramifications for writing about fictional relationships with celebsHow do you write boy & girl protagonists without turning them into a love story?Introducing the hero first?Characterization: is there any guidance for writing “the romantic interest”?How do you make two characters fall in love?Is the “hero guy saves girl” trope misogynistic?How do I avoid the “chosen hero” feeling?How to make a villain fall in love?How do I stop my characters falling in love?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
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If I'm going to face down a dragon, Mob boss, evil corporation, or a demon from the 7 circles of hell or dystopian dictator, etc, it's not going to be to rescue my buddy Herbert, or cousin Jimmy. The best they are going to get are my harsh words and heavy disapproval muttered under my breath as I go into hiding. But if I had actually found real love and that was snatched from me I would move heaven and earth attempting to save her. So that is where my characters' motives come from.
However, I see the complaints so often now, buzz phrases being stuff like "manic pixie dreamgirl" "heroes reward" "nerd wish fulfillment" "women in the fridge" etc etc.... Why is writing a love interest for the hero so widely ridiculed?
My issue is I enjoy those stories, they seem more realistic to me from the point of the hero. How can I write a story with a love interest without running into this kind of criticism?
fiction tropes relationships motivation
New contributor
add a comment |
If I'm going to face down a dragon, Mob boss, evil corporation, or a demon from the 7 circles of hell or dystopian dictator, etc, it's not going to be to rescue my buddy Herbert, or cousin Jimmy. The best they are going to get are my harsh words and heavy disapproval muttered under my breath as I go into hiding. But if I had actually found real love and that was snatched from me I would move heaven and earth attempting to save her. So that is where my characters' motives come from.
However, I see the complaints so often now, buzz phrases being stuff like "manic pixie dreamgirl" "heroes reward" "nerd wish fulfillment" "women in the fridge" etc etc.... Why is writing a love interest for the hero so widely ridiculed?
My issue is I enjoy those stories, they seem more realistic to me from the point of the hero. How can I write a story with a love interest without running into this kind of criticism?
fiction tropes relationships motivation
New contributor
1
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
2
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
If I'm going to face down a dragon, Mob boss, evil corporation, or a demon from the 7 circles of hell or dystopian dictator, etc, it's not going to be to rescue my buddy Herbert, or cousin Jimmy. The best they are going to get are my harsh words and heavy disapproval muttered under my breath as I go into hiding. But if I had actually found real love and that was snatched from me I would move heaven and earth attempting to save her. So that is where my characters' motives come from.
However, I see the complaints so often now, buzz phrases being stuff like "manic pixie dreamgirl" "heroes reward" "nerd wish fulfillment" "women in the fridge" etc etc.... Why is writing a love interest for the hero so widely ridiculed?
My issue is I enjoy those stories, they seem more realistic to me from the point of the hero. How can I write a story with a love interest without running into this kind of criticism?
fiction tropes relationships motivation
New contributor
If I'm going to face down a dragon, Mob boss, evil corporation, or a demon from the 7 circles of hell or dystopian dictator, etc, it's not going to be to rescue my buddy Herbert, or cousin Jimmy. The best they are going to get are my harsh words and heavy disapproval muttered under my breath as I go into hiding. But if I had actually found real love and that was snatched from me I would move heaven and earth attempting to save her. So that is where my characters' motives come from.
However, I see the complaints so often now, buzz phrases being stuff like "manic pixie dreamgirl" "heroes reward" "nerd wish fulfillment" "women in the fridge" etc etc.... Why is writing a love interest for the hero so widely ridiculed?
My issue is I enjoy those stories, they seem more realistic to me from the point of the hero. How can I write a story with a love interest without running into this kind of criticism?
fiction tropes relationships motivation
fiction tropes relationships motivation
New contributor
New contributor
edited 10 hours ago
Galastel
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asked 12 hours ago
Ric FuentezRic Fuentez
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311 bronze badge
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1
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
2
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
2
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago
1
1
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
2
2
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
The kinds of criticisms you are encountering are not aimed against the concept of the hero having a love interest. They are aimed against female characters that that exist only as a motivation for the hero, and that are, as a consequence, generic, cliched, stereotyped, unrealistic, and unsatisfying as characters, particularly for female readers. At one time it was incredibly common for female love interests to be as absolutely interchangeable as the MacGuffin in a mystery story --see practically any older mainstream movie or genre fiction book for proof. And yes, many people are still writing those books and movies. But they're starting to experience a lot of critical pushback --which is what you're witnessing.
If you want to write a love interest for your main character, that's great. But the modern critical audience is unlikely to embrace a love interest that seems only like your own personal fantasy girl. They are going to want to see someone in that role who has her own hopes, dreams, storylines, history, flaws, strengths and so forth.
But let's say you're not writing a romance between characters of equal importance in the story --you want to focus on your male protagonist and his adventures, but you still want him to have a love interest. Is that kind of story just hopelessly out of date? Maybe, but I'd argue that you can still treat your female characters with respect. The fantasy classic Master of the 5 Magics (Lyndon Hardy) is a great example. In format and structure, it's your basic wish-fulfillment sword-and-sorcery action thriller, about a despised young man who goes on a quest, gains magical powers, saves a kingdom, and ends up with a beautiful girl at the end. So cliched, right? But there's a twist. Throughout the story, the hero is working towards earning the love of the beautiful-but-disdainful queen. But at the end, he realizes he's actually in love with her advisor, a tough, intelligent woman who has been doing as much (offstage) work to save the kingdom as he has. Although she doesn't have an equal role as a character in the story, their relationship is definitely presented as a marriage of equals. She isn't just a damsel in distress waiting to be saved.
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
add a comment |
A love interest is not the only reason to risk life and limb. IRL there are many stories of people risking life and limb to save children, sometimes losing their life. In psychology there is a real phenomenon, primarily involving young adults in their teens or twenties, of taking insane risks to save a child they don't even know. Daniel Goleman documents some of this as "Amygdala Hijack", e.g. IRL a soldier in his early twenties visited (for entertainment) a tall bridge over a flooding river, while watching the river below with trees and debris rushing past at high speed, he saw a five year old in the water, and without realizing he was doing it vaulted the rail and dove about thirty feet into that churn, fully clothed, found the child and brought her safely to shore. After the fact he said he couldn't remember making any decision, one instant he saw the child, the next thing he remembers is hitting the water.
A young teen girl, waiting for a bus, ran into traffic moving at speed to snatch a three year old (that wandered off the opposite sidewalk) out of the way of a truck. She also couldn't remember making a decision, she saw the child and the next thing she remembered was holding the kid in the air in the middle of traffic.
There is nothing wrong with giving your hero a love interest, the issue is whether the love interest could just be replaced by something else, like a kid in danger.
The best love interests (and kids in danger) are actually critical to the hero's success, they aren't just there to be rescued, and the hero would not succeed without them. Otherwise, they truly are not important to the plot, they could be replaced by something else the hero would devote their life to, like art, or "the truth", or "democracy" or their Religion, all real-life things people have taken risks to preserve. The Founding Fathers literally risked their lives to realize the USA, not out of a particular love interest, but to escape subjugation. Many slaves risked and lost their lives for freedom, not just for a girl back home.
True Love is complementary and synergistic; the two lovers are emotionally better together than the sum of what they would be alone.
If you have a love interest, this is what you need to portray, that the love is not one-sided, and the hero will lose an important part of himself if he fails, his life will be diminished NOT just because he lost her, or she couldn't please him any more, but because of the ways in which she provided the strength where he was weak, the intelligence where he was dumb, the understanding when he was confused, the humor when he was dour. She has to be a real person with her own strengths and weaknesses, complementary to his weaknesses and strengths. They need to mate in more than a physical sense.
Then it won't be a cliché, he isn't losing just a pretty sperm receptacle he can replace with a phone call and a few hundred dollars.
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Here's an easy test: if for all intents and purposes the woman in your story could be replaced with a golden chalice, you're in trouble. Someone stole the guy's chalice, he wants to get it back. Someone crashed the guy's chalice, he wants revenge. Worst offenders are the "if you save the princess, you can marry her" stories - there the woman is literally a reward.
What makes a character different from a nice cup? The woman has agency.
In @Amadeus's example of the child in the river, the child has no agency, but that is a very brief situation. If your hero is going on presumably a novel-spanning quest to save his love-interest from a dragon, what is the love-interest doing all this time? Presumably more than sitting on a shelf in the dragon's fridge and doing nothing? It might be that the lady can't escape the dragon on her own. A war prisoner often can't escape either. But the war prisoner is doing something, right?
Another related trope you want to avoid is the woman's agency always landing her in trouble. If every time the woman exercises her will instead of doing what the man tells her, she then needs saving from the consequences of her actions, that's problematic. That's saying "men know better, women should obey" and "women are incapable of taking care of themselves or making good decisions".
A lady gets kidnapped by a dragon. Why? Because she went out to pick flowers all alone, when she was told not to go out of the palace? Or was it that she was championing a dragon-hunting coalition, getting the villages armed against dragons, actually pushing dragons back so they felt genuinely threatened? See the difference?
Neither does the hero need to do the saving all on his own. Surely his beloved can be useful in some way? Surely, he's not all-powerful, all-knowing, made-of-steel, one-man powerhouse who needs no assistance ever? Human heroes are more compelling.
And finally, don't forget about other female characters in your story. Every problematic trope discussed by me and by others is exacerbated if every female character in your story is flat and useless or worse than useless, or if there are no other female characters in the story at all.
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The key is to write a person, not a pet dog in the form of a female companion / love interest.
A person is a complex, with aspirations, motivations, interests, and a personality. And now you have this complex character, should she still be with the hero? As a writer, you need to write that.
And writing a love interest is not easy, not even for good writers, male or female.
JK Rowling, wrote a rather generic destiny hero (Harry Potter), and his love interests were even flatter than him! Cho Chang was only memorable for being Asian (not given much to do). Ronald Weasley's sister, whatever her name was, had 0 personality (and had nothing to do).
Hermione and Ron were two major characters that ultimately fell in love, in a relationship that pretty much made no sense to the readers. Because JKR just forced them together, because that's how she envisioned it. (The problem was she just told it, without showing it). Hermione and Ron could have worked if JKR devoted some pages to making it happen.
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
add a comment |
In addition to the excellent answers here already, this might be an opportunity for you to do some further reading, to examine in detail how some of the most popular high-quality novels pursue a strong romance arc.
You can start with an internet search for "romance in [genre]", using your own favourite genre. I tried this for "romance in science fiction" and immediately found the following page which offers a great start: 12 Sci-Fi Romance Books That Will Make You Swoon. Or try "crime", "adventure novels", "vampire novels", etc.
There's also a bit of snobbery in literature about "romance" novels. Sure there's a lot of pulp romance, but that's true in the other genres as well. Don't be put off by the "romance" tag! The reality is that
(a) some of the greatest works in literature are romances. To name just a few: Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights, the Pulitzer-winning Gone with the Wind, Forster's A Room With A View, Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, arguably even Joyce's Ulysses. And more recent favourites: Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman, Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.
(b) most major publishing houses would go out of business if it wasn't for their romance book sales, and most romance writers make far more money than writers of "literary fiction". Why? Because romances are popular, and good romance novels sell.
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
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The kinds of criticisms you are encountering are not aimed against the concept of the hero having a love interest. They are aimed against female characters that that exist only as a motivation for the hero, and that are, as a consequence, generic, cliched, stereotyped, unrealistic, and unsatisfying as characters, particularly for female readers. At one time it was incredibly common for female love interests to be as absolutely interchangeable as the MacGuffin in a mystery story --see practically any older mainstream movie or genre fiction book for proof. And yes, many people are still writing those books and movies. But they're starting to experience a lot of critical pushback --which is what you're witnessing.
If you want to write a love interest for your main character, that's great. But the modern critical audience is unlikely to embrace a love interest that seems only like your own personal fantasy girl. They are going to want to see someone in that role who has her own hopes, dreams, storylines, history, flaws, strengths and so forth.
But let's say you're not writing a romance between characters of equal importance in the story --you want to focus on your male protagonist and his adventures, but you still want him to have a love interest. Is that kind of story just hopelessly out of date? Maybe, but I'd argue that you can still treat your female characters with respect. The fantasy classic Master of the 5 Magics (Lyndon Hardy) is a great example. In format and structure, it's your basic wish-fulfillment sword-and-sorcery action thriller, about a despised young man who goes on a quest, gains magical powers, saves a kingdom, and ends up with a beautiful girl at the end. So cliched, right? But there's a twist. Throughout the story, the hero is working towards earning the love of the beautiful-but-disdainful queen. But at the end, he realizes he's actually in love with her advisor, a tough, intelligent woman who has been doing as much (offstage) work to save the kingdom as he has. Although she doesn't have an equal role as a character in the story, their relationship is definitely presented as a marriage of equals. She isn't just a damsel in distress waiting to be saved.
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The kinds of criticisms you are encountering are not aimed against the concept of the hero having a love interest. They are aimed against female characters that that exist only as a motivation for the hero, and that are, as a consequence, generic, cliched, stereotyped, unrealistic, and unsatisfying as characters, particularly for female readers. At one time it was incredibly common for female love interests to be as absolutely interchangeable as the MacGuffin in a mystery story --see practically any older mainstream movie or genre fiction book for proof. And yes, many people are still writing those books and movies. But they're starting to experience a lot of critical pushback --which is what you're witnessing.
If you want to write a love interest for your main character, that's great. But the modern critical audience is unlikely to embrace a love interest that seems only like your own personal fantasy girl. They are going to want to see someone in that role who has her own hopes, dreams, storylines, history, flaws, strengths and so forth.
But let's say you're not writing a romance between characters of equal importance in the story --you want to focus on your male protagonist and his adventures, but you still want him to have a love interest. Is that kind of story just hopelessly out of date? Maybe, but I'd argue that you can still treat your female characters with respect. The fantasy classic Master of the 5 Magics (Lyndon Hardy) is a great example. In format and structure, it's your basic wish-fulfillment sword-and-sorcery action thriller, about a despised young man who goes on a quest, gains magical powers, saves a kingdom, and ends up with a beautiful girl at the end. So cliched, right? But there's a twist. Throughout the story, the hero is working towards earning the love of the beautiful-but-disdainful queen. But at the end, he realizes he's actually in love with her advisor, a tough, intelligent woman who has been doing as much (offstage) work to save the kingdom as he has. Although she doesn't have an equal role as a character in the story, their relationship is definitely presented as a marriage of equals. She isn't just a damsel in distress waiting to be saved.
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The kinds of criticisms you are encountering are not aimed against the concept of the hero having a love interest. They are aimed against female characters that that exist only as a motivation for the hero, and that are, as a consequence, generic, cliched, stereotyped, unrealistic, and unsatisfying as characters, particularly for female readers. At one time it was incredibly common for female love interests to be as absolutely interchangeable as the MacGuffin in a mystery story --see practically any older mainstream movie or genre fiction book for proof. And yes, many people are still writing those books and movies. But they're starting to experience a lot of critical pushback --which is what you're witnessing.
If you want to write a love interest for your main character, that's great. But the modern critical audience is unlikely to embrace a love interest that seems only like your own personal fantasy girl. They are going to want to see someone in that role who has her own hopes, dreams, storylines, history, flaws, strengths and so forth.
But let's say you're not writing a romance between characters of equal importance in the story --you want to focus on your male protagonist and his adventures, but you still want him to have a love interest. Is that kind of story just hopelessly out of date? Maybe, but I'd argue that you can still treat your female characters with respect. The fantasy classic Master of the 5 Magics (Lyndon Hardy) is a great example. In format and structure, it's your basic wish-fulfillment sword-and-sorcery action thriller, about a despised young man who goes on a quest, gains magical powers, saves a kingdom, and ends up with a beautiful girl at the end. So cliched, right? But there's a twist. Throughout the story, the hero is working towards earning the love of the beautiful-but-disdainful queen. But at the end, he realizes he's actually in love with her advisor, a tough, intelligent woman who has been doing as much (offstage) work to save the kingdom as he has. Although she doesn't have an equal role as a character in the story, their relationship is definitely presented as a marriage of equals. She isn't just a damsel in distress waiting to be saved.
The kinds of criticisms you are encountering are not aimed against the concept of the hero having a love interest. They are aimed against female characters that that exist only as a motivation for the hero, and that are, as a consequence, generic, cliched, stereotyped, unrealistic, and unsatisfying as characters, particularly for female readers. At one time it was incredibly common for female love interests to be as absolutely interchangeable as the MacGuffin in a mystery story --see practically any older mainstream movie or genre fiction book for proof. And yes, many people are still writing those books and movies. But they're starting to experience a lot of critical pushback --which is what you're witnessing.
If you want to write a love interest for your main character, that's great. But the modern critical audience is unlikely to embrace a love interest that seems only like your own personal fantasy girl. They are going to want to see someone in that role who has her own hopes, dreams, storylines, history, flaws, strengths and so forth.
But let's say you're not writing a romance between characters of equal importance in the story --you want to focus on your male protagonist and his adventures, but you still want him to have a love interest. Is that kind of story just hopelessly out of date? Maybe, but I'd argue that you can still treat your female characters with respect. The fantasy classic Master of the 5 Magics (Lyndon Hardy) is a great example. In format and structure, it's your basic wish-fulfillment sword-and-sorcery action thriller, about a despised young man who goes on a quest, gains magical powers, saves a kingdom, and ends up with a beautiful girl at the end. So cliched, right? But there's a twist. Throughout the story, the hero is working towards earning the love of the beautiful-but-disdainful queen. But at the end, he realizes he's actually in love with her advisor, a tough, intelligent woman who has been doing as much (offstage) work to save the kingdom as he has. Although she doesn't have an equal role as a character in the story, their relationship is definitely presented as a marriage of equals. She isn't just a damsel in distress waiting to be saved.
edited 11 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
Chris SunamiChris Sunami
41.8k4 gold badges59 silver badges156 bronze badges
41.8k4 gold badges59 silver badges156 bronze badges
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
I don't think we should take it as read that this vein of cultural criticism, or any other, reflects actual audience preferences. As much as the manic pixie dream girl may stick in some people's craw, writers keep writing her, readers keep reading her, and viewers keep watching her. The fundamental things that appeal to us in story seem to remain fairly constant despite whatever particular form of cultural criticism is ascendant at the moment. The MPDG may be a fantasy, but then so is the cat suited ninja girl, and so is the love object of every romance novel.
– Mark Baker
11 hours ago
2
2
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
@MarkBaker In my recent experiences querying agents and publishers, I have found that there is at least a stated preference on the publishing side of the market for more three-dimensional female and minority characters. // That's not to say that stories that don't meet that bar don't continue to be published. But the OP wasn't asking about the market anyway, he was specifically asking about this vein of criticism. // I'd also note that I, at least, as a reader, and therefore a member of the audience, do in fact prefer stories with less generic female characters.
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
Yes, I'm seeing that on agent web pages as well. But in publishing there is always the aspirational -- the things that people in the biz want to have sell -- and the practical -- the things that actually sell. I interpret the agent wish list to be those things that they would really like to see executed within a novel that will actually sell. I don't take it to mean that they will turn their noses up at salable novels that don't check every item on their wish list. They can be as idealistic as they like in their aspirations, but they still have to eat. Look to what sells to see what sells.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
add a comment |
A love interest is not the only reason to risk life and limb. IRL there are many stories of people risking life and limb to save children, sometimes losing their life. In psychology there is a real phenomenon, primarily involving young adults in their teens or twenties, of taking insane risks to save a child they don't even know. Daniel Goleman documents some of this as "Amygdala Hijack", e.g. IRL a soldier in his early twenties visited (for entertainment) a tall bridge over a flooding river, while watching the river below with trees and debris rushing past at high speed, he saw a five year old in the water, and without realizing he was doing it vaulted the rail and dove about thirty feet into that churn, fully clothed, found the child and brought her safely to shore. After the fact he said he couldn't remember making any decision, one instant he saw the child, the next thing he remembers is hitting the water.
A young teen girl, waiting for a bus, ran into traffic moving at speed to snatch a three year old (that wandered off the opposite sidewalk) out of the way of a truck. She also couldn't remember making a decision, she saw the child and the next thing she remembered was holding the kid in the air in the middle of traffic.
There is nothing wrong with giving your hero a love interest, the issue is whether the love interest could just be replaced by something else, like a kid in danger.
The best love interests (and kids in danger) are actually critical to the hero's success, they aren't just there to be rescued, and the hero would not succeed without them. Otherwise, they truly are not important to the plot, they could be replaced by something else the hero would devote their life to, like art, or "the truth", or "democracy" or their Religion, all real-life things people have taken risks to preserve. The Founding Fathers literally risked their lives to realize the USA, not out of a particular love interest, but to escape subjugation. Many slaves risked and lost their lives for freedom, not just for a girl back home.
True Love is complementary and synergistic; the two lovers are emotionally better together than the sum of what they would be alone.
If you have a love interest, this is what you need to portray, that the love is not one-sided, and the hero will lose an important part of himself if he fails, his life will be diminished NOT just because he lost her, or she couldn't please him any more, but because of the ways in which she provided the strength where he was weak, the intelligence where he was dumb, the understanding when he was confused, the humor when he was dour. She has to be a real person with her own strengths and weaknesses, complementary to his weaknesses and strengths. They need to mate in more than a physical sense.
Then it won't be a cliché, he isn't losing just a pretty sperm receptacle he can replace with a phone call and a few hundred dollars.
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
A love interest is not the only reason to risk life and limb. IRL there are many stories of people risking life and limb to save children, sometimes losing their life. In psychology there is a real phenomenon, primarily involving young adults in their teens or twenties, of taking insane risks to save a child they don't even know. Daniel Goleman documents some of this as "Amygdala Hijack", e.g. IRL a soldier in his early twenties visited (for entertainment) a tall bridge over a flooding river, while watching the river below with trees and debris rushing past at high speed, he saw a five year old in the water, and without realizing he was doing it vaulted the rail and dove about thirty feet into that churn, fully clothed, found the child and brought her safely to shore. After the fact he said he couldn't remember making any decision, one instant he saw the child, the next thing he remembers is hitting the water.
A young teen girl, waiting for a bus, ran into traffic moving at speed to snatch a three year old (that wandered off the opposite sidewalk) out of the way of a truck. She also couldn't remember making a decision, she saw the child and the next thing she remembered was holding the kid in the air in the middle of traffic.
There is nothing wrong with giving your hero a love interest, the issue is whether the love interest could just be replaced by something else, like a kid in danger.
The best love interests (and kids in danger) are actually critical to the hero's success, they aren't just there to be rescued, and the hero would not succeed without them. Otherwise, they truly are not important to the plot, they could be replaced by something else the hero would devote their life to, like art, or "the truth", or "democracy" or their Religion, all real-life things people have taken risks to preserve. The Founding Fathers literally risked their lives to realize the USA, not out of a particular love interest, but to escape subjugation. Many slaves risked and lost their lives for freedom, not just for a girl back home.
True Love is complementary and synergistic; the two lovers are emotionally better together than the sum of what they would be alone.
If you have a love interest, this is what you need to portray, that the love is not one-sided, and the hero will lose an important part of himself if he fails, his life will be diminished NOT just because he lost her, or she couldn't please him any more, but because of the ways in which she provided the strength where he was weak, the intelligence where he was dumb, the understanding when he was confused, the humor when he was dour. She has to be a real person with her own strengths and weaknesses, complementary to his weaknesses and strengths. They need to mate in more than a physical sense.
Then it won't be a cliché, he isn't losing just a pretty sperm receptacle he can replace with a phone call and a few hundred dollars.
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
A love interest is not the only reason to risk life and limb. IRL there are many stories of people risking life and limb to save children, sometimes losing their life. In psychology there is a real phenomenon, primarily involving young adults in their teens or twenties, of taking insane risks to save a child they don't even know. Daniel Goleman documents some of this as "Amygdala Hijack", e.g. IRL a soldier in his early twenties visited (for entertainment) a tall bridge over a flooding river, while watching the river below with trees and debris rushing past at high speed, he saw a five year old in the water, and without realizing he was doing it vaulted the rail and dove about thirty feet into that churn, fully clothed, found the child and brought her safely to shore. After the fact he said he couldn't remember making any decision, one instant he saw the child, the next thing he remembers is hitting the water.
A young teen girl, waiting for a bus, ran into traffic moving at speed to snatch a three year old (that wandered off the opposite sidewalk) out of the way of a truck. She also couldn't remember making a decision, she saw the child and the next thing she remembered was holding the kid in the air in the middle of traffic.
There is nothing wrong with giving your hero a love interest, the issue is whether the love interest could just be replaced by something else, like a kid in danger.
The best love interests (and kids in danger) are actually critical to the hero's success, they aren't just there to be rescued, and the hero would not succeed without them. Otherwise, they truly are not important to the plot, they could be replaced by something else the hero would devote their life to, like art, or "the truth", or "democracy" or their Religion, all real-life things people have taken risks to preserve. The Founding Fathers literally risked their lives to realize the USA, not out of a particular love interest, but to escape subjugation. Many slaves risked and lost their lives for freedom, not just for a girl back home.
True Love is complementary and synergistic; the two lovers are emotionally better together than the sum of what they would be alone.
If you have a love interest, this is what you need to portray, that the love is not one-sided, and the hero will lose an important part of himself if he fails, his life will be diminished NOT just because he lost her, or she couldn't please him any more, but because of the ways in which she provided the strength where he was weak, the intelligence where he was dumb, the understanding when he was confused, the humor when he was dour. She has to be a real person with her own strengths and weaknesses, complementary to his weaknesses and strengths. They need to mate in more than a physical sense.
Then it won't be a cliché, he isn't losing just a pretty sperm receptacle he can replace with a phone call and a few hundred dollars.
A love interest is not the only reason to risk life and limb. IRL there are many stories of people risking life and limb to save children, sometimes losing their life. In psychology there is a real phenomenon, primarily involving young adults in their teens or twenties, of taking insane risks to save a child they don't even know. Daniel Goleman documents some of this as "Amygdala Hijack", e.g. IRL a soldier in his early twenties visited (for entertainment) a tall bridge over a flooding river, while watching the river below with trees and debris rushing past at high speed, he saw a five year old in the water, and without realizing he was doing it vaulted the rail and dove about thirty feet into that churn, fully clothed, found the child and brought her safely to shore. After the fact he said he couldn't remember making any decision, one instant he saw the child, the next thing he remembers is hitting the water.
A young teen girl, waiting for a bus, ran into traffic moving at speed to snatch a three year old (that wandered off the opposite sidewalk) out of the way of a truck. She also couldn't remember making a decision, she saw the child and the next thing she remembered was holding the kid in the air in the middle of traffic.
There is nothing wrong with giving your hero a love interest, the issue is whether the love interest could just be replaced by something else, like a kid in danger.
The best love interests (and kids in danger) are actually critical to the hero's success, they aren't just there to be rescued, and the hero would not succeed without them. Otherwise, they truly are not important to the plot, they could be replaced by something else the hero would devote their life to, like art, or "the truth", or "democracy" or their Religion, all real-life things people have taken risks to preserve. The Founding Fathers literally risked their lives to realize the USA, not out of a particular love interest, but to escape subjugation. Many slaves risked and lost their lives for freedom, not just for a girl back home.
True Love is complementary and synergistic; the two lovers are emotionally better together than the sum of what they would be alone.
If you have a love interest, this is what you need to portray, that the love is not one-sided, and the hero will lose an important part of himself if he fails, his life will be diminished NOT just because he lost her, or she couldn't please him any more, but because of the ways in which she provided the strength where he was weak, the intelligence where he was dumb, the understanding when he was confused, the humor when he was dour. She has to be a real person with her own strengths and weaknesses, complementary to his weaknesses and strengths. They need to mate in more than a physical sense.
Then it won't be a cliché, he isn't losing just a pretty sperm receptacle he can replace with a phone call and a few hundred dollars.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
AmadeusAmadeus
75.2k7 gold badges99 silver badges246 bronze badges
75.2k7 gold badges99 silver badges246 bronze badges
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
Love interest can certainly be one sided. ... But that said, the main problem really is... a love interest should not just be an emotional support character, or a banter target, or a plot driver (love interest in distress)...
– dolphin_of_france
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france I don't think romantic love can be one-sided, I think anybody that thinks they are in love with someone that truly doesn't love them is suffering from a delusion, or is in lust or in love with a fantasy version of a real person. Such lust and fantasy can, of course, lead to love, by virtue of driving two people to learn about each other either before or in addition to the bedroom and realize their synergy; but I don't believe it is love yet. Of course that is my definition of true love, you are entitled to your own.
– Amadeus
8 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
I didn't say romantic love can be one sided. I said, a love interest could be one sided.
– dolphin_of_france
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
@dolphin_of_france What is a "love interest"? A child? A sibling, or some other platonic love? To me a "love interest" implies romantic love, that is the only type of love commonly referred to as a "love interest", and that cannot be one-sided.
– Amadeus
7 hours ago
1
1
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
@RicFuentez You wouldn't risk life and limb to save your own child?
– Amadeus
4 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Here's an easy test: if for all intents and purposes the woman in your story could be replaced with a golden chalice, you're in trouble. Someone stole the guy's chalice, he wants to get it back. Someone crashed the guy's chalice, he wants revenge. Worst offenders are the "if you save the princess, you can marry her" stories - there the woman is literally a reward.
What makes a character different from a nice cup? The woman has agency.
In @Amadeus's example of the child in the river, the child has no agency, but that is a very brief situation. If your hero is going on presumably a novel-spanning quest to save his love-interest from a dragon, what is the love-interest doing all this time? Presumably more than sitting on a shelf in the dragon's fridge and doing nothing? It might be that the lady can't escape the dragon on her own. A war prisoner often can't escape either. But the war prisoner is doing something, right?
Another related trope you want to avoid is the woman's agency always landing her in trouble. If every time the woman exercises her will instead of doing what the man tells her, she then needs saving from the consequences of her actions, that's problematic. That's saying "men know better, women should obey" and "women are incapable of taking care of themselves or making good decisions".
A lady gets kidnapped by a dragon. Why? Because she went out to pick flowers all alone, when she was told not to go out of the palace? Or was it that she was championing a dragon-hunting coalition, getting the villages armed against dragons, actually pushing dragons back so they felt genuinely threatened? See the difference?
Neither does the hero need to do the saving all on his own. Surely his beloved can be useful in some way? Surely, he's not all-powerful, all-knowing, made-of-steel, one-man powerhouse who needs no assistance ever? Human heroes are more compelling.
And finally, don't forget about other female characters in your story. Every problematic trope discussed by me and by others is exacerbated if every female character in your story is flat and useless or worse than useless, or if there are no other female characters in the story at all.
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Here's an easy test: if for all intents and purposes the woman in your story could be replaced with a golden chalice, you're in trouble. Someone stole the guy's chalice, he wants to get it back. Someone crashed the guy's chalice, he wants revenge. Worst offenders are the "if you save the princess, you can marry her" stories - there the woman is literally a reward.
What makes a character different from a nice cup? The woman has agency.
In @Amadeus's example of the child in the river, the child has no agency, but that is a very brief situation. If your hero is going on presumably a novel-spanning quest to save his love-interest from a dragon, what is the love-interest doing all this time? Presumably more than sitting on a shelf in the dragon's fridge and doing nothing? It might be that the lady can't escape the dragon on her own. A war prisoner often can't escape either. But the war prisoner is doing something, right?
Another related trope you want to avoid is the woman's agency always landing her in trouble. If every time the woman exercises her will instead of doing what the man tells her, she then needs saving from the consequences of her actions, that's problematic. That's saying "men know better, women should obey" and "women are incapable of taking care of themselves or making good decisions".
A lady gets kidnapped by a dragon. Why? Because she went out to pick flowers all alone, when she was told not to go out of the palace? Or was it that she was championing a dragon-hunting coalition, getting the villages armed against dragons, actually pushing dragons back so they felt genuinely threatened? See the difference?
Neither does the hero need to do the saving all on his own. Surely his beloved can be useful in some way? Surely, he's not all-powerful, all-knowing, made-of-steel, one-man powerhouse who needs no assistance ever? Human heroes are more compelling.
And finally, don't forget about other female characters in your story. Every problematic trope discussed by me and by others is exacerbated if every female character in your story is flat and useless or worse than useless, or if there are no other female characters in the story at all.
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Here's an easy test: if for all intents and purposes the woman in your story could be replaced with a golden chalice, you're in trouble. Someone stole the guy's chalice, he wants to get it back. Someone crashed the guy's chalice, he wants revenge. Worst offenders are the "if you save the princess, you can marry her" stories - there the woman is literally a reward.
What makes a character different from a nice cup? The woman has agency.
In @Amadeus's example of the child in the river, the child has no agency, but that is a very brief situation. If your hero is going on presumably a novel-spanning quest to save his love-interest from a dragon, what is the love-interest doing all this time? Presumably more than sitting on a shelf in the dragon's fridge and doing nothing? It might be that the lady can't escape the dragon on her own. A war prisoner often can't escape either. But the war prisoner is doing something, right?
Another related trope you want to avoid is the woman's agency always landing her in trouble. If every time the woman exercises her will instead of doing what the man tells her, she then needs saving from the consequences of her actions, that's problematic. That's saying "men know better, women should obey" and "women are incapable of taking care of themselves or making good decisions".
A lady gets kidnapped by a dragon. Why? Because she went out to pick flowers all alone, when she was told not to go out of the palace? Or was it that she was championing a dragon-hunting coalition, getting the villages armed against dragons, actually pushing dragons back so they felt genuinely threatened? See the difference?
Neither does the hero need to do the saving all on his own. Surely his beloved can be useful in some way? Surely, he's not all-powerful, all-knowing, made-of-steel, one-man powerhouse who needs no assistance ever? Human heroes are more compelling.
And finally, don't forget about other female characters in your story. Every problematic trope discussed by me and by others is exacerbated if every female character in your story is flat and useless or worse than useless, or if there are no other female characters in the story at all.
Here's an easy test: if for all intents and purposes the woman in your story could be replaced with a golden chalice, you're in trouble. Someone stole the guy's chalice, he wants to get it back. Someone crashed the guy's chalice, he wants revenge. Worst offenders are the "if you save the princess, you can marry her" stories - there the woman is literally a reward.
What makes a character different from a nice cup? The woman has agency.
In @Amadeus's example of the child in the river, the child has no agency, but that is a very brief situation. If your hero is going on presumably a novel-spanning quest to save his love-interest from a dragon, what is the love-interest doing all this time? Presumably more than sitting on a shelf in the dragon's fridge and doing nothing? It might be that the lady can't escape the dragon on her own. A war prisoner often can't escape either. But the war prisoner is doing something, right?
Another related trope you want to avoid is the woman's agency always landing her in trouble. If every time the woman exercises her will instead of doing what the man tells her, she then needs saving from the consequences of her actions, that's problematic. That's saying "men know better, women should obey" and "women are incapable of taking care of themselves or making good decisions".
A lady gets kidnapped by a dragon. Why? Because she went out to pick flowers all alone, when she was told not to go out of the palace? Or was it that she was championing a dragon-hunting coalition, getting the villages armed against dragons, actually pushing dragons back so they felt genuinely threatened? See the difference?
Neither does the hero need to do the saving all on his own. Surely his beloved can be useful in some way? Surely, he's not all-powerful, all-knowing, made-of-steel, one-man powerhouse who needs no assistance ever? Human heroes are more compelling.
And finally, don't forget about other female characters in your story. Every problematic trope discussed by me and by others is exacerbated if every female character in your story is flat and useless or worse than useless, or if there are no other female characters in the story at all.
answered 9 hours ago
GalastelGalastel
48.6k8 gold badges153 silver badges270 bronze badges
48.6k8 gold badges153 silver badges270 bronze badges
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
1
1
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
Actually in the graphic novel I'm working on currently the hero protagonist is one of the only reoccurring male characters in the story, other male characters are either one off villains or obstacles. his Ishmael type companion on his quest is actually female whom I'm writing as a very butch lesbian(based on my real life friend of 10 years) and her girlfriend (based on my friends wife). And the love interest is going to be fully fleshed out from a gazillian angles do to the type of story it is. Cliff notes summery, hero loses the love of his life and travels the multiverse finding her alts.
– Ric Fuentez
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
@RicFuentez In that case, I don't think you'll have a problem.
– Galastel
5 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
yep the hero is what I classify as a "lazy prodigy" super smart to genius level but no ambition, career student, happy with his life, his small social circle, apartment over an arcade and most of all his girlfriend who he has been with since the 11th grade(he is 26) who it took him 4 years to win over.
– Ric Fuentez
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The key is to write a person, not a pet dog in the form of a female companion / love interest.
A person is a complex, with aspirations, motivations, interests, and a personality. And now you have this complex character, should she still be with the hero? As a writer, you need to write that.
And writing a love interest is not easy, not even for good writers, male or female.
JK Rowling, wrote a rather generic destiny hero (Harry Potter), and his love interests were even flatter than him! Cho Chang was only memorable for being Asian (not given much to do). Ronald Weasley's sister, whatever her name was, had 0 personality (and had nothing to do).
Hermione and Ron were two major characters that ultimately fell in love, in a relationship that pretty much made no sense to the readers. Because JKR just forced them together, because that's how she envisioned it. (The problem was she just told it, without showing it). Hermione and Ron could have worked if JKR devoted some pages to making it happen.
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The key is to write a person, not a pet dog in the form of a female companion / love interest.
A person is a complex, with aspirations, motivations, interests, and a personality. And now you have this complex character, should she still be with the hero? As a writer, you need to write that.
And writing a love interest is not easy, not even for good writers, male or female.
JK Rowling, wrote a rather generic destiny hero (Harry Potter), and his love interests were even flatter than him! Cho Chang was only memorable for being Asian (not given much to do). Ronald Weasley's sister, whatever her name was, had 0 personality (and had nothing to do).
Hermione and Ron were two major characters that ultimately fell in love, in a relationship that pretty much made no sense to the readers. Because JKR just forced them together, because that's how she envisioned it. (The problem was she just told it, without showing it). Hermione and Ron could have worked if JKR devoted some pages to making it happen.
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The key is to write a person, not a pet dog in the form of a female companion / love interest.
A person is a complex, with aspirations, motivations, interests, and a personality. And now you have this complex character, should she still be with the hero? As a writer, you need to write that.
And writing a love interest is not easy, not even for good writers, male or female.
JK Rowling, wrote a rather generic destiny hero (Harry Potter), and his love interests were even flatter than him! Cho Chang was only memorable for being Asian (not given much to do). Ronald Weasley's sister, whatever her name was, had 0 personality (and had nothing to do).
Hermione and Ron were two major characters that ultimately fell in love, in a relationship that pretty much made no sense to the readers. Because JKR just forced them together, because that's how she envisioned it. (The problem was she just told it, without showing it). Hermione and Ron could have worked if JKR devoted some pages to making it happen.
The key is to write a person, not a pet dog in the form of a female companion / love interest.
A person is a complex, with aspirations, motivations, interests, and a personality. And now you have this complex character, should she still be with the hero? As a writer, you need to write that.
And writing a love interest is not easy, not even for good writers, male or female.
JK Rowling, wrote a rather generic destiny hero (Harry Potter), and his love interests were even flatter than him! Cho Chang was only memorable for being Asian (not given much to do). Ronald Weasley's sister, whatever her name was, had 0 personality (and had nothing to do).
Hermione and Ron were two major characters that ultimately fell in love, in a relationship that pretty much made no sense to the readers. Because JKR just forced them together, because that's how she envisioned it. (The problem was she just told it, without showing it). Hermione and Ron could have worked if JKR devoted some pages to making it happen.
answered 11 hours ago
dolphin_of_francedolphin_of_france
5025 bronze badges
5025 bronze badges
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
Finally! An answer of yours that I can legitimately upvote in good conscience :)
– Chris Sunami
11 hours ago
1
1
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
While I'm no particular JK Rowling fan myself, holding her up as an example of an approach that won't sell doesn't quite work.
– Mark Baker
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
@Mark Baker: Nothing against JKR. I rather enjoy her lively writing. I only picked her as an example because her work is well known. Love interest in is hard to write. Bourne Identity's marie is a good example of a decent love interest in an action movie (even though she doesn't have a lot of back story, she is a 3 dimensional character). You can see why Jason Bourne liked/loved her. 1. he started out needing her.. and he grew to love her as she was resourceful, brave and compassionate. And as she discovered that Jason was a good person abused by evil men she grew to like him too.
– dolphin_of_france
9 hours ago
add a comment |
In addition to the excellent answers here already, this might be an opportunity for you to do some further reading, to examine in detail how some of the most popular high-quality novels pursue a strong romance arc.
You can start with an internet search for "romance in [genre]", using your own favourite genre. I tried this for "romance in science fiction" and immediately found the following page which offers a great start: 12 Sci-Fi Romance Books That Will Make You Swoon. Or try "crime", "adventure novels", "vampire novels", etc.
There's also a bit of snobbery in literature about "romance" novels. Sure there's a lot of pulp romance, but that's true in the other genres as well. Don't be put off by the "romance" tag! The reality is that
(a) some of the greatest works in literature are romances. To name just a few: Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights, the Pulitzer-winning Gone with the Wind, Forster's A Room With A View, Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, arguably even Joyce's Ulysses. And more recent favourites: Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman, Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.
(b) most major publishing houses would go out of business if it wasn't for their romance book sales, and most romance writers make far more money than writers of "literary fiction". Why? Because romances are popular, and good romance novels sell.
add a comment |
In addition to the excellent answers here already, this might be an opportunity for you to do some further reading, to examine in detail how some of the most popular high-quality novels pursue a strong romance arc.
You can start with an internet search for "romance in [genre]", using your own favourite genre. I tried this for "romance in science fiction" and immediately found the following page which offers a great start: 12 Sci-Fi Romance Books That Will Make You Swoon. Or try "crime", "adventure novels", "vampire novels", etc.
There's also a bit of snobbery in literature about "romance" novels. Sure there's a lot of pulp romance, but that's true in the other genres as well. Don't be put off by the "romance" tag! The reality is that
(a) some of the greatest works in literature are romances. To name just a few: Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights, the Pulitzer-winning Gone with the Wind, Forster's A Room With A View, Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, arguably even Joyce's Ulysses. And more recent favourites: Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman, Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.
(b) most major publishing houses would go out of business if it wasn't for their romance book sales, and most romance writers make far more money than writers of "literary fiction". Why? Because romances are popular, and good romance novels sell.
add a comment |
In addition to the excellent answers here already, this might be an opportunity for you to do some further reading, to examine in detail how some of the most popular high-quality novels pursue a strong romance arc.
You can start with an internet search for "romance in [genre]", using your own favourite genre. I tried this for "romance in science fiction" and immediately found the following page which offers a great start: 12 Sci-Fi Romance Books That Will Make You Swoon. Or try "crime", "adventure novels", "vampire novels", etc.
There's also a bit of snobbery in literature about "romance" novels. Sure there's a lot of pulp romance, but that's true in the other genres as well. Don't be put off by the "romance" tag! The reality is that
(a) some of the greatest works in literature are romances. To name just a few: Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights, the Pulitzer-winning Gone with the Wind, Forster's A Room With A View, Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, arguably even Joyce's Ulysses. And more recent favourites: Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman, Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.
(b) most major publishing houses would go out of business if it wasn't for their romance book sales, and most romance writers make far more money than writers of "literary fiction". Why? Because romances are popular, and good romance novels sell.
In addition to the excellent answers here already, this might be an opportunity for you to do some further reading, to examine in detail how some of the most popular high-quality novels pursue a strong romance arc.
You can start with an internet search for "romance in [genre]", using your own favourite genre. I tried this for "romance in science fiction" and immediately found the following page which offers a great start: 12 Sci-Fi Romance Books That Will Make You Swoon. Or try "crime", "adventure novels", "vampire novels", etc.
There's also a bit of snobbery in literature about "romance" novels. Sure there's a lot of pulp romance, but that's true in the other genres as well. Don't be put off by the "romance" tag! The reality is that
(a) some of the greatest works in literature are romances. To name just a few: Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights, the Pulitzer-winning Gone with the Wind, Forster's A Room With A View, Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, arguably even Joyce's Ulysses. And more recent favourites: Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman, Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier, Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.
(b) most major publishing houses would go out of business if it wasn't for their romance book sales, and most romance writers make far more money than writers of "literary fiction". Why? Because romances are popular, and good romance novels sell.
answered 45 mins ago
ChappoChappo
7682 gold badges6 silver badges20 bronze badges
7682 gold badges6 silver badges20 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Ric Fuentez is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ric Fuentez is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ric Fuentez is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Ric Fuentez is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
Hi Ric, welcome to writers. This group is for questions about the craft of writing. Your question appears to be more a general question about the reception of literature. As it stands it seems more appropriate for Literature than Writing. If you are a writer, maybe you can rephrase it to show how it bears on a specific writing problem you are having.
– Mark Baker
12 hours ago
2
Welcome Ric, glad you found us and we hope you stick around. I'm a bit confused on what you're asking here. The romance genre, and the element of romance within other genres, is alive and well. If you're getting pushback, it's not a sign that there isn't an audience for your work out there. There are also plenty of works where the hero does save a friend or family member (Frozen is one of several examples) and that's okay too. When you get a chance, take a peek at our tour and help center. Even if your question is closed, we'd love for you to read, answer questions, and ask more as well.
– Cyn♦
12 hours ago