What good is the paladin's Divine Sense?Does a humanoid possessed by a ghost register as undead to a...
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What good is the paladin's Divine Sense?
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What good is the paladin's Divine Sense?
Does a humanoid possessed by a ghost register as undead to a paladin's Divine Sense?Does the Detect Evil and Good spell let the player know what kind of ground (consecrated or desecrated) they have found?Are Warlocks Arcane or Divine?What good is a Paladin's Divine Sense against invisibility?Does transparent cover negate paladin Divine Sense?How, other than Hallow, can a place or object be consecrated or desecrated, so that it would be detected by Divine Sense or Detect Evil and Good?Does the paladin's Divine Health feature protect against both common and magical diseases?What good is a Paladin's Divine Sense against invisibility?Does Divine Sense negate Mirror Image?What are the restrictions on the use of Slayer's Prey?Can a Paladin's Divine Sense ability detect good and evil through a portal?Is it balanced to allow a Divine Soul Sorcerer to swap out Empowered Healing for Extra Attack?Can a paladin's Divine Sense detect if an object is cursed?How, other than Hallow, can a place or object be consecrated or desecrated, so that it would be detected by Divine Sense or Detect Evil and Good?Does a humanoid possessed by a ghost register as undead to a paladin's Divine Sense?
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The Divine Sense feature of the Paladins looks underwhelming to me. It has limited uses, takes an action to use, and
- you know the location and type of any celestial/fiend/undead within 60ft, not behind total cover
- you detect any place/object that has been consecrated/desecrated within same area
Divine Sense gets blocked by a window, basically detects hallow but not any of its features, or even whether it's consecrated or desecrated, and does not detect possessions. On the plus side, you can find invisible imps?
My problem with this feature is that it seems to be close to useless. Unless you decide to randomly use it because your spidey-sense told you about invisible monsters or hallowed grounds, you can only use it to learn types of enemies you're already on the same room as. But because it takes your action to do so so, you probably won't this if you're already in combat.
Compare this with other class features at level 1. Barbarian get Rage, Bard gets Inspiration, Clerics, Sorcerers and Warlocks get a subclass feature, Fighter gets a Fighting Style and 2nd Wind, Monk get Martial Arts, Rangers get Favored Enemy, Rogues Sneak Attack, and a few get Spellcasting. Paladins get Lay on Hands (great ability), and Divine Sense.
TL;DR: Divine Sense looks very niche, has limited uses, costs an action, and doesn't seem to provide useful rewards. What am I missing?
dnd-5e class-feature paladin
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The Divine Sense feature of the Paladins looks underwhelming to me. It has limited uses, takes an action to use, and
- you know the location and type of any celestial/fiend/undead within 60ft, not behind total cover
- you detect any place/object that has been consecrated/desecrated within same area
Divine Sense gets blocked by a window, basically detects hallow but not any of its features, or even whether it's consecrated or desecrated, and does not detect possessions. On the plus side, you can find invisible imps?
My problem with this feature is that it seems to be close to useless. Unless you decide to randomly use it because your spidey-sense told you about invisible monsters or hallowed grounds, you can only use it to learn types of enemies you're already on the same room as. But because it takes your action to do so so, you probably won't this if you're already in combat.
Compare this with other class features at level 1. Barbarian get Rage, Bard gets Inspiration, Clerics, Sorcerers and Warlocks get a subclass feature, Fighter gets a Fighting Style and 2nd Wind, Monk get Martial Arts, Rangers get Favored Enemy, Rogues Sneak Attack, and a few get Spellcasting. Paladins get Lay on Hands (great ability), and Divine Sense.
TL;DR: Divine Sense looks very niche, has limited uses, costs an action, and doesn't seem to provide useful rewards. What am I missing?
dnd-5e class-feature paladin
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
The Divine Sense feature of the Paladins looks underwhelming to me. It has limited uses, takes an action to use, and
- you know the location and type of any celestial/fiend/undead within 60ft, not behind total cover
- you detect any place/object that has been consecrated/desecrated within same area
Divine Sense gets blocked by a window, basically detects hallow but not any of its features, or even whether it's consecrated or desecrated, and does not detect possessions. On the plus side, you can find invisible imps?
My problem with this feature is that it seems to be close to useless. Unless you decide to randomly use it because your spidey-sense told you about invisible monsters or hallowed grounds, you can only use it to learn types of enemies you're already on the same room as. But because it takes your action to do so so, you probably won't this if you're already in combat.
Compare this with other class features at level 1. Barbarian get Rage, Bard gets Inspiration, Clerics, Sorcerers and Warlocks get a subclass feature, Fighter gets a Fighting Style and 2nd Wind, Monk get Martial Arts, Rangers get Favored Enemy, Rogues Sneak Attack, and a few get Spellcasting. Paladins get Lay on Hands (great ability), and Divine Sense.
TL;DR: Divine Sense looks very niche, has limited uses, costs an action, and doesn't seem to provide useful rewards. What am I missing?
dnd-5e class-feature paladin
$endgroup$
The Divine Sense feature of the Paladins looks underwhelming to me. It has limited uses, takes an action to use, and
- you know the location and type of any celestial/fiend/undead within 60ft, not behind total cover
- you detect any place/object that has been consecrated/desecrated within same area
Divine Sense gets blocked by a window, basically detects hallow but not any of its features, or even whether it's consecrated or desecrated, and does not detect possessions. On the plus side, you can find invisible imps?
My problem with this feature is that it seems to be close to useless. Unless you decide to randomly use it because your spidey-sense told you about invisible monsters or hallowed grounds, you can only use it to learn types of enemies you're already on the same room as. But because it takes your action to do so so, you probably won't this if you're already in combat.
Compare this with other class features at level 1. Barbarian get Rage, Bard gets Inspiration, Clerics, Sorcerers and Warlocks get a subclass feature, Fighter gets a Fighting Style and 2nd Wind, Monk get Martial Arts, Rangers get Favored Enemy, Rogues Sneak Attack, and a few get Spellcasting. Paladins get Lay on Hands (great ability), and Divine Sense.
TL;DR: Divine Sense looks very niche, has limited uses, costs an action, and doesn't seem to provide useful rewards. What am I missing?
dnd-5e class-feature paladin
dnd-5e class-feature paladin
edited 42 mins ago
V2Blast♦
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1
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
1
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's not as useful as detect evil was in 3e, but it still has niche uses.
Divine Sense is basically the 5e version of the 3rd edition Paladin's detect evil, which could be used at will. It penetrated some barriers, detected lingering auras, identified evil NPCs, and helped find hidden enemies.
The problem was that 3e paladin used detect evil on every single NPC outside of combat, since it was unlimited-use. Every empty room got a sweep with it, just in case. As a result, the 5e version appears to have been weakened substantially, but left in the game because it's traditional rather than because it's very useful.
That's not to say Divine Sense is entirely useless, but it has a very narrow range of applicability... so it's often useless. It's primarily useful in non-combat situations where you're hunting fiends or undead. Some particular uses:
- Identify a suspected vampire in human guise. Particularly useful if you're hunting vampires.
- Locate invisible fiends. This is useful even in combat so that you don't waste time swinging at empty space or waste spell slots on things which counter invisibility.
- Identify shapechanged fiends, such as an imp disguised as a toad or a succubus disguised as a harmless peasant woman.
- If a celestial appears before you with a mission, determine their authenticity before you believe them. Beware of fiends in disguise.
- Determine if an enemy is indeed undead before the cleric wastes multiple turns attempting turn undead against it.
- Determine if the area is desecrated before the cleric wastes turns attempting a turn undead that will be more difficult.
- Detect hiding or concealed celestial, fiends or undead, as long as they don't have total cover.
- Detect celestial, fiends or undead in the dark.
- Double-check the room for invisible shadow demon assassins before you go to bed.
- Detect illusory celestials, fiends, or undead. Incorporeal undead enemies float silently and make good illusions, but if they're illusory they won't show up on Divine Sense.
- Detect a fiend or undead in a crowd of people.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Divine Sense can be very useful in particular campaigns/social situations
I have played in a number of campaigns where Divine Sense was useful. The most prominent of which was when I ran Curse of Strahd. It was used so much that the paladin player was often running out of uses. Helping the rampant use of this ability is the fact that unlike a spell it has no components so you can usually use it without fear of repercussions1. Here are some examples of situations where it was useful (spoilers naturally)
Strahd himself, the first time he showed up, there was already an in-character reason to be distrustful of someone that is actually undead
That old lady selling pastries is actually a fiend
Checking what's wrong with the priest's son (vampire spawn)
This maid and young man living in the castle are probably more than they appear (both are vampire spawn, the maid in particular, tries to convince characters she's a victim to ambush them later). However this girl, a commoner, is actually probably innocent. (Not perfect as a number of other denizens can't be distinguished this way but it certainly helps a lot)
Finding The Abbot is a celestial actually doesn't help much as he's evil but it is still interesting for the plot
Getting the jump on suspicious looking statues that are actually fiends
The Lady of the House does not detect as anything bad but the presence of an invisible imp with her is good to know
These are just some examples of where it was particularly useful that I can recall. Making this test for any suspicious NPC met (in CoS that's just about everyone) can often help and makes certain potentially dangerous encounters far easier.
Of course, CoS being what it is, Divine Sense is a lot more useful in this kind of campaign than in general. This is an ability that is going to be very campaign dependent2 but in certain situations it can be very relevant.
1. Noted by Ryan Thompson
2. Potential SPOILER: KorvinStarmast affirms that "the latest hardcover has NPCs with imps" making Divine Sense potentially useful there as well (I didn't check to avoid spoilers)
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
It's not as useful as detect evil was in 3e, but it still has niche uses.
Divine Sense is basically the 5e version of the 3rd edition Paladin's detect evil, which could be used at will. It penetrated some barriers, detected lingering auras, identified evil NPCs, and helped find hidden enemies.
The problem was that 3e paladin used detect evil on every single NPC outside of combat, since it was unlimited-use. Every empty room got a sweep with it, just in case. As a result, the 5e version appears to have been weakened substantially, but left in the game because it's traditional rather than because it's very useful.
That's not to say Divine Sense is entirely useless, but it has a very narrow range of applicability... so it's often useless. It's primarily useful in non-combat situations where you're hunting fiends or undead. Some particular uses:
- Identify a suspected vampire in human guise. Particularly useful if you're hunting vampires.
- Locate invisible fiends. This is useful even in combat so that you don't waste time swinging at empty space or waste spell slots on things which counter invisibility.
- Identify shapechanged fiends, such as an imp disguised as a toad or a succubus disguised as a harmless peasant woman.
- If a celestial appears before you with a mission, determine their authenticity before you believe them. Beware of fiends in disguise.
- Determine if an enemy is indeed undead before the cleric wastes multiple turns attempting turn undead against it.
- Determine if the area is desecrated before the cleric wastes turns attempting a turn undead that will be more difficult.
- Detect hiding or concealed celestial, fiends or undead, as long as they don't have total cover.
- Detect celestial, fiends or undead in the dark.
- Double-check the room for invisible shadow demon assassins before you go to bed.
- Detect illusory celestials, fiends, or undead. Incorporeal undead enemies float silently and make good illusions, but if they're illusory they won't show up on Divine Sense.
- Detect a fiend or undead in a crowd of people.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
It's not as useful as detect evil was in 3e, but it still has niche uses.
Divine Sense is basically the 5e version of the 3rd edition Paladin's detect evil, which could be used at will. It penetrated some barriers, detected lingering auras, identified evil NPCs, and helped find hidden enemies.
The problem was that 3e paladin used detect evil on every single NPC outside of combat, since it was unlimited-use. Every empty room got a sweep with it, just in case. As a result, the 5e version appears to have been weakened substantially, but left in the game because it's traditional rather than because it's very useful.
That's not to say Divine Sense is entirely useless, but it has a very narrow range of applicability... so it's often useless. It's primarily useful in non-combat situations where you're hunting fiends or undead. Some particular uses:
- Identify a suspected vampire in human guise. Particularly useful if you're hunting vampires.
- Locate invisible fiends. This is useful even in combat so that you don't waste time swinging at empty space or waste spell slots on things which counter invisibility.
- Identify shapechanged fiends, such as an imp disguised as a toad or a succubus disguised as a harmless peasant woman.
- If a celestial appears before you with a mission, determine their authenticity before you believe them. Beware of fiends in disguise.
- Determine if an enemy is indeed undead before the cleric wastes multiple turns attempting turn undead against it.
- Determine if the area is desecrated before the cleric wastes turns attempting a turn undead that will be more difficult.
- Detect hiding or concealed celestial, fiends or undead, as long as they don't have total cover.
- Detect celestial, fiends or undead in the dark.
- Double-check the room for invisible shadow demon assassins before you go to bed.
- Detect illusory celestials, fiends, or undead. Incorporeal undead enemies float silently and make good illusions, but if they're illusory they won't show up on Divine Sense.
- Detect a fiend or undead in a crowd of people.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
It's not as useful as detect evil was in 3e, but it still has niche uses.
Divine Sense is basically the 5e version of the 3rd edition Paladin's detect evil, which could be used at will. It penetrated some barriers, detected lingering auras, identified evil NPCs, and helped find hidden enemies.
The problem was that 3e paladin used detect evil on every single NPC outside of combat, since it was unlimited-use. Every empty room got a sweep with it, just in case. As a result, the 5e version appears to have been weakened substantially, but left in the game because it's traditional rather than because it's very useful.
That's not to say Divine Sense is entirely useless, but it has a very narrow range of applicability... so it's often useless. It's primarily useful in non-combat situations where you're hunting fiends or undead. Some particular uses:
- Identify a suspected vampire in human guise. Particularly useful if you're hunting vampires.
- Locate invisible fiends. This is useful even in combat so that you don't waste time swinging at empty space or waste spell slots on things which counter invisibility.
- Identify shapechanged fiends, such as an imp disguised as a toad or a succubus disguised as a harmless peasant woman.
- If a celestial appears before you with a mission, determine their authenticity before you believe them. Beware of fiends in disguise.
- Determine if an enemy is indeed undead before the cleric wastes multiple turns attempting turn undead against it.
- Determine if the area is desecrated before the cleric wastes turns attempting a turn undead that will be more difficult.
- Detect hiding or concealed celestial, fiends or undead, as long as they don't have total cover.
- Detect celestial, fiends or undead in the dark.
- Double-check the room for invisible shadow demon assassins before you go to bed.
- Detect illusory celestials, fiends, or undead. Incorporeal undead enemies float silently and make good illusions, but if they're illusory they won't show up on Divine Sense.
- Detect a fiend or undead in a crowd of people.
$endgroup$
It's not as useful as detect evil was in 3e, but it still has niche uses.
Divine Sense is basically the 5e version of the 3rd edition Paladin's detect evil, which could be used at will. It penetrated some barriers, detected lingering auras, identified evil NPCs, and helped find hidden enemies.
The problem was that 3e paladin used detect evil on every single NPC outside of combat, since it was unlimited-use. Every empty room got a sweep with it, just in case. As a result, the 5e version appears to have been weakened substantially, but left in the game because it's traditional rather than because it's very useful.
That's not to say Divine Sense is entirely useless, but it has a very narrow range of applicability... so it's often useless. It's primarily useful in non-combat situations where you're hunting fiends or undead. Some particular uses:
- Identify a suspected vampire in human guise. Particularly useful if you're hunting vampires.
- Locate invisible fiends. This is useful even in combat so that you don't waste time swinging at empty space or waste spell slots on things which counter invisibility.
- Identify shapechanged fiends, such as an imp disguised as a toad or a succubus disguised as a harmless peasant woman.
- If a celestial appears before you with a mission, determine their authenticity before you believe them. Beware of fiends in disguise.
- Determine if an enemy is indeed undead before the cleric wastes multiple turns attempting turn undead against it.
- Determine if the area is desecrated before the cleric wastes turns attempting a turn undead that will be more difficult.
- Detect hiding or concealed celestial, fiends or undead, as long as they don't have total cover.
- Detect celestial, fiends or undead in the dark.
- Double-check the room for invisible shadow demon assassins before you go to bed.
- Detect illusory celestials, fiends, or undead. Incorporeal undead enemies float silently and make good illusions, but if they're illusory they won't show up on Divine Sense.
- Detect a fiend or undead in a crowd of people.
answered 13 hours ago
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
44.6k7 gold badges151 silver badges218 bronze badges
44.6k7 gold badges151 silver badges218 bronze badges
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is also blocked by Ring of Mind Shielding and since I consider it "divination" because of the name of the ability I also have the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location as well as Nondetection affect it. I obviously depends on the setting and will be heavily DM dependent on the usefulness of it. Old 3.X it was a joke though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
13 hours ago
7
7
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth I never associated divination with divinity/DIvine Sense. That seems to be a pretty strict ruling to further limit something that already has quite a few limits.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
I do it simply because I require Paladins to have a faith and the rest of it is a play on the relationship between the words Divine and Divination which are inexorably linked at least in my mind since the root word of divination is divine. But I also enforce the schools of magic and I have no delusions I am in the minority in those things.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
11 hours ago
6
6
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth That seems very strange to me. There are quite a few (almost one-third of) divination spells that exclusively exist within classes that use arcane magic (as in arcane casters can use them but divine casters can't). The spells that fit this category include true strike, comprehend languages, detect thoughts, mind spike, see invisibility, contact other plane, and rary's telepathic bond.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidCoffron Divination to me comes from a third party for Arcane casters it could be the spirits in the land or fey or any other otherworldly being (Just not the gods). Divination is the granting of knowledge which would come from somewhere, at least back when the schools matter at all they did. Too much stuff gets glossed over in our attempt to have our cake and eat it too in my opinion. Besides, and no offense to anyone, but my table doesn't have to make sense to anyone that is not at it, just me and my players and based on the older way of running the game it does to us. :)
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
3 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Divine Sense can be very useful in particular campaigns/social situations
I have played in a number of campaigns where Divine Sense was useful. The most prominent of which was when I ran Curse of Strahd. It was used so much that the paladin player was often running out of uses. Helping the rampant use of this ability is the fact that unlike a spell it has no components so you can usually use it without fear of repercussions1. Here are some examples of situations where it was useful (spoilers naturally)
Strahd himself, the first time he showed up, there was already an in-character reason to be distrustful of someone that is actually undead
That old lady selling pastries is actually a fiend
Checking what's wrong with the priest's son (vampire spawn)
This maid and young man living in the castle are probably more than they appear (both are vampire spawn, the maid in particular, tries to convince characters she's a victim to ambush them later). However this girl, a commoner, is actually probably innocent. (Not perfect as a number of other denizens can't be distinguished this way but it certainly helps a lot)
Finding The Abbot is a celestial actually doesn't help much as he's evil but it is still interesting for the plot
Getting the jump on suspicious looking statues that are actually fiends
The Lady of the House does not detect as anything bad but the presence of an invisible imp with her is good to know
These are just some examples of where it was particularly useful that I can recall. Making this test for any suspicious NPC met (in CoS that's just about everyone) can often help and makes certain potentially dangerous encounters far easier.
Of course, CoS being what it is, Divine Sense is a lot more useful in this kind of campaign than in general. This is an ability that is going to be very campaign dependent2 but in certain situations it can be very relevant.
1. Noted by Ryan Thompson
2. Potential SPOILER: KorvinStarmast affirms that "the latest hardcover has NPCs with imps" making Divine Sense potentially useful there as well (I didn't check to avoid spoilers)
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Divine Sense can be very useful in particular campaigns/social situations
I have played in a number of campaigns where Divine Sense was useful. The most prominent of which was when I ran Curse of Strahd. It was used so much that the paladin player was often running out of uses. Helping the rampant use of this ability is the fact that unlike a spell it has no components so you can usually use it without fear of repercussions1. Here are some examples of situations where it was useful (spoilers naturally)
Strahd himself, the first time he showed up, there was already an in-character reason to be distrustful of someone that is actually undead
That old lady selling pastries is actually a fiend
Checking what's wrong with the priest's son (vampire spawn)
This maid and young man living in the castle are probably more than they appear (both are vampire spawn, the maid in particular, tries to convince characters she's a victim to ambush them later). However this girl, a commoner, is actually probably innocent. (Not perfect as a number of other denizens can't be distinguished this way but it certainly helps a lot)
Finding The Abbot is a celestial actually doesn't help much as he's evil but it is still interesting for the plot
Getting the jump on suspicious looking statues that are actually fiends
The Lady of the House does not detect as anything bad but the presence of an invisible imp with her is good to know
These are just some examples of where it was particularly useful that I can recall. Making this test for any suspicious NPC met (in CoS that's just about everyone) can often help and makes certain potentially dangerous encounters far easier.
Of course, CoS being what it is, Divine Sense is a lot more useful in this kind of campaign than in general. This is an ability that is going to be very campaign dependent2 but in certain situations it can be very relevant.
1. Noted by Ryan Thompson
2. Potential SPOILER: KorvinStarmast affirms that "the latest hardcover has NPCs with imps" making Divine Sense potentially useful there as well (I didn't check to avoid spoilers)
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Divine Sense can be very useful in particular campaigns/social situations
I have played in a number of campaigns where Divine Sense was useful. The most prominent of which was when I ran Curse of Strahd. It was used so much that the paladin player was often running out of uses. Helping the rampant use of this ability is the fact that unlike a spell it has no components so you can usually use it without fear of repercussions1. Here are some examples of situations where it was useful (spoilers naturally)
Strahd himself, the first time he showed up, there was already an in-character reason to be distrustful of someone that is actually undead
That old lady selling pastries is actually a fiend
Checking what's wrong with the priest's son (vampire spawn)
This maid and young man living in the castle are probably more than they appear (both are vampire spawn, the maid in particular, tries to convince characters she's a victim to ambush them later). However this girl, a commoner, is actually probably innocent. (Not perfect as a number of other denizens can't be distinguished this way but it certainly helps a lot)
Finding The Abbot is a celestial actually doesn't help much as he's evil but it is still interesting for the plot
Getting the jump on suspicious looking statues that are actually fiends
The Lady of the House does not detect as anything bad but the presence of an invisible imp with her is good to know
These are just some examples of where it was particularly useful that I can recall. Making this test for any suspicious NPC met (in CoS that's just about everyone) can often help and makes certain potentially dangerous encounters far easier.
Of course, CoS being what it is, Divine Sense is a lot more useful in this kind of campaign than in general. This is an ability that is going to be very campaign dependent2 but in certain situations it can be very relevant.
1. Noted by Ryan Thompson
2. Potential SPOILER: KorvinStarmast affirms that "the latest hardcover has NPCs with imps" making Divine Sense potentially useful there as well (I didn't check to avoid spoilers)
$endgroup$
Divine Sense can be very useful in particular campaigns/social situations
I have played in a number of campaigns where Divine Sense was useful. The most prominent of which was when I ran Curse of Strahd. It was used so much that the paladin player was often running out of uses. Helping the rampant use of this ability is the fact that unlike a spell it has no components so you can usually use it without fear of repercussions1. Here are some examples of situations where it was useful (spoilers naturally)
Strahd himself, the first time he showed up, there was already an in-character reason to be distrustful of someone that is actually undead
That old lady selling pastries is actually a fiend
Checking what's wrong with the priest's son (vampire spawn)
This maid and young man living in the castle are probably more than they appear (both are vampire spawn, the maid in particular, tries to convince characters she's a victim to ambush them later). However this girl, a commoner, is actually probably innocent. (Not perfect as a number of other denizens can't be distinguished this way but it certainly helps a lot)
Finding The Abbot is a celestial actually doesn't help much as he's evil but it is still interesting for the plot
Getting the jump on suspicious looking statues that are actually fiends
The Lady of the House does not detect as anything bad but the presence of an invisible imp with her is good to know
These are just some examples of where it was particularly useful that I can recall. Making this test for any suspicious NPC met (in CoS that's just about everyone) can often help and makes certain potentially dangerous encounters far easier.
Of course, CoS being what it is, Divine Sense is a lot more useful in this kind of campaign than in general. This is an ability that is going to be very campaign dependent2 but in certain situations it can be very relevant.
1. Noted by Ryan Thompson
2. Potential SPOILER: KorvinStarmast affirms that "the latest hardcover has NPCs with imps" making Divine Sense potentially useful there as well (I didn't check to avoid spoilers)
edited 12 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
SdjzSdjz
24.3k6 gold badges117 silver badges174 bronze badges
24.3k6 gold badges117 silver badges174 bronze badges
add a comment
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1
$begingroup$
I'm interested to see the answers to this because I've played with a lot of paladins in multi-level campaigns and I've seen it used once and it did nothing.
$endgroup$
– Eternallord66
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I wish I had the time to actually answer this... a Paladin that doesn't use it in my games misses quite a lot of information. It is not a combat focused ability though.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Slagmoth Whenever you have time to expand the comment, feel free. I won't accept any answer immediately, so don't feel pressured
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's not a spell, it is a class feature. (It does not use a spell slot, but is 1+your Cha mod per long rest). I revised your question slightly. (If you have ever played in a game/adventure where the bad guy has an invisible imp who spies on you .... I'll just say that being able to uncover that is an immense help ... YMMV ... there is a published adventure where that is an imbedded problem to deal with)
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
12 hours ago