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Why don't I have ground wiring on any of my outlets?
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My house in California was built in 1989 (I believe) And in the last 5 years I've replaced at least 20 outlets myself (successfully), and noticed there were never any ground wires to connect to the new outlet (Decora style). The old outlet are exactly the same as the new outlets, the majority of the time.
I've read plenty of tutorials that point out that this is possible with older style homes and you simply just screw in the green screw firmly into the receptacle and wire everything back up like it was before.
Edit: I forgot to mention that all the outlets are housed in a metal box. But I don't know if the ground wire is connected to metal box because I physically can't see if it is.
I guess my question is why don't I have any ground wires?
Is this a bad thing? How is not having ground wires effect me as apposed to a newly built home that does have ground wires.
Is my house actually grounded, just without the ground wire? For example I know that if you have a string of outlets and they all connect to a GFCI, then they are considered grounded. Correct?
The reason I bring this up, is because i'm gearing up to do some electrical work and this keeps nagging at me that I should address this issue before moving forward.
Some Hi-Res Images of my breaker and outlet HERE.
electrical grounding
|
show 10 more comments
My house in California was built in 1989 (I believe) And in the last 5 years I've replaced at least 20 outlets myself (successfully), and noticed there were never any ground wires to connect to the new outlet (Decora style). The old outlet are exactly the same as the new outlets, the majority of the time.
I've read plenty of tutorials that point out that this is possible with older style homes and you simply just screw in the green screw firmly into the receptacle and wire everything back up like it was before.
Edit: I forgot to mention that all the outlets are housed in a metal box. But I don't know if the ground wire is connected to metal box because I physically can't see if it is.
I guess my question is why don't I have any ground wires?
Is this a bad thing? How is not having ground wires effect me as apposed to a newly built home that does have ground wires.
Is my house actually grounded, just without the ground wire? For example I know that if you have a string of outlets and they all connect to a GFCI, then they are considered grounded. Correct?
The reason I bring this up, is because i'm gearing up to do some electrical work and this keeps nagging at me that I should address this issue before moving forward.
Some Hi-Res Images of my breaker and outlet HERE.
electrical grounding
2
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
1
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
My house in California was built in 1989 (I believe) And in the last 5 years I've replaced at least 20 outlets myself (successfully), and noticed there were never any ground wires to connect to the new outlet (Decora style). The old outlet are exactly the same as the new outlets, the majority of the time.
I've read plenty of tutorials that point out that this is possible with older style homes and you simply just screw in the green screw firmly into the receptacle and wire everything back up like it was before.
Edit: I forgot to mention that all the outlets are housed in a metal box. But I don't know if the ground wire is connected to metal box because I physically can't see if it is.
I guess my question is why don't I have any ground wires?
Is this a bad thing? How is not having ground wires effect me as apposed to a newly built home that does have ground wires.
Is my house actually grounded, just without the ground wire? For example I know that if you have a string of outlets and they all connect to a GFCI, then they are considered grounded. Correct?
The reason I bring this up, is because i'm gearing up to do some electrical work and this keeps nagging at me that I should address this issue before moving forward.
Some Hi-Res Images of my breaker and outlet HERE.
electrical grounding
My house in California was built in 1989 (I believe) And in the last 5 years I've replaced at least 20 outlets myself (successfully), and noticed there were never any ground wires to connect to the new outlet (Decora style). The old outlet are exactly the same as the new outlets, the majority of the time.
I've read plenty of tutorials that point out that this is possible with older style homes and you simply just screw in the green screw firmly into the receptacle and wire everything back up like it was before.
Edit: I forgot to mention that all the outlets are housed in a metal box. But I don't know if the ground wire is connected to metal box because I physically can't see if it is.
I guess my question is why don't I have any ground wires?
Is this a bad thing? How is not having ground wires effect me as apposed to a newly built home that does have ground wires.
Is my house actually grounded, just without the ground wire? For example I know that if you have a string of outlets and they all connect to a GFCI, then they are considered grounded. Correct?
The reason I bring this up, is because i'm gearing up to do some electrical work and this keeps nagging at me that I should address this issue before moving forward.
Some Hi-Res Images of my breaker and outlet HERE.
electrical grounding
electrical grounding
edited 8 hours ago
Sickest
asked 9 hours ago
SickestSickest
4081317
4081317
2
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
1
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
2
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
1
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago
2
2
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
1
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
1
1
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
1
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Your house is wired using the EMT conduit wiring method. Individual wires are carried inside metal conduit. The conduit is the ground path. Most commercial and industrial buildings look exactly like this.
Since they are individual wires, they are able to use any of 11 wire colors to disambiguate circuits, instead of the usual black white red. If you wish to add wires, you'd buy THWN-2 wires, stranded is more flexible but more tricky to put on screws.
Switches do not need any further attention to grounding.
Lamps and receptacles may need further attention. Look closely at how the yoke (metal frame, notably the top and bottom ears) make contact with the steel box. If all this is true:
- There is hard face-contact between the yoke and the metal box directly; the yoke is not floating out proud of the metal box connected only by screw threads, and
- The yoke and metal box are not contaminated by paint, rust or other detritus, and
- There is not any little little paper/plastic square that would capture the yoke screws,
then this clean hard-flush contact is an acceptable ground path.
If any of this is insufficient, you must ground the receptacle to the box. Somewhere in the back of the box will be a hole slightly different than the others. It is tapped #10-32 for a ground machine screw (bolt). You can use any 10-32 bolt (machine screw). They sell cute green 10-32 bolts in the hardware store, with or without pigtails pre-attached. Those are perfect.
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your pictures appear to show metallic conduit carrying the wires to your boxes. The conduit is also an NEC approved grounding path, so no separate grounding wire is required for the distribution. This evidently is not the case in some other countries.
Current best practice (and code, so far as I recall) is to attach a grounding pigtail from the box (there is normally a raised bump with a threaded hole for this exact purpose) to the device, rather than depending on the mounting screws as a grounding means.
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
If your house was built in 1989, it would have needed to have ground wires in all of the outlets. The requirement went into effect in the 1968 NEC. Now if your house was built in 1969, it might be that in your state, the 1968 NEC was not yet adopted. Some states take a while to adopt changed to the NEC. But not 20 years...
Grounding is a safety issue, but because it is a MANDATORY safety issue, many electronic devices rely upon that solid ground connection to eliminate electrical noise (or give it an easy path to ground). If you have 3 prong outlets but the ground wire is not connected, you have no grounding so not only is it less safe, it is also likely unhealthy for some of your electronics. In a nutshell if your device has a 3 prong plug, it probably NEEDS the ground connection, if it has a 2 prong plug, it doesn't.
A GFCI by the way does NOT "fix" that issue, it just looks at the current flow coming in and going back, and if they are not the same (ostensibly because something is going to ground) it opens the circuit.
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
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3 Answers
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Your house is wired using the EMT conduit wiring method. Individual wires are carried inside metal conduit. The conduit is the ground path. Most commercial and industrial buildings look exactly like this.
Since they are individual wires, they are able to use any of 11 wire colors to disambiguate circuits, instead of the usual black white red. If you wish to add wires, you'd buy THWN-2 wires, stranded is more flexible but more tricky to put on screws.
Switches do not need any further attention to grounding.
Lamps and receptacles may need further attention. Look closely at how the yoke (metal frame, notably the top and bottom ears) make contact with the steel box. If all this is true:
- There is hard face-contact between the yoke and the metal box directly; the yoke is not floating out proud of the metal box connected only by screw threads, and
- The yoke and metal box are not contaminated by paint, rust or other detritus, and
- There is not any little little paper/plastic square that would capture the yoke screws,
then this clean hard-flush contact is an acceptable ground path.
If any of this is insufficient, you must ground the receptacle to the box. Somewhere in the back of the box will be a hole slightly different than the others. It is tapped #10-32 for a ground machine screw (bolt). You can use any 10-32 bolt (machine screw). They sell cute green 10-32 bolts in the hardware store, with or without pigtails pre-attached. Those are perfect.
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your house is wired using the EMT conduit wiring method. Individual wires are carried inside metal conduit. The conduit is the ground path. Most commercial and industrial buildings look exactly like this.
Since they are individual wires, they are able to use any of 11 wire colors to disambiguate circuits, instead of the usual black white red. If you wish to add wires, you'd buy THWN-2 wires, stranded is more flexible but more tricky to put on screws.
Switches do not need any further attention to grounding.
Lamps and receptacles may need further attention. Look closely at how the yoke (metal frame, notably the top and bottom ears) make contact with the steel box. If all this is true:
- There is hard face-contact between the yoke and the metal box directly; the yoke is not floating out proud of the metal box connected only by screw threads, and
- The yoke and metal box are not contaminated by paint, rust or other detritus, and
- There is not any little little paper/plastic square that would capture the yoke screws,
then this clean hard-flush contact is an acceptable ground path.
If any of this is insufficient, you must ground the receptacle to the box. Somewhere in the back of the box will be a hole slightly different than the others. It is tapped #10-32 for a ground machine screw (bolt). You can use any 10-32 bolt (machine screw). They sell cute green 10-32 bolts in the hardware store, with or without pigtails pre-attached. Those are perfect.
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your house is wired using the EMT conduit wiring method. Individual wires are carried inside metal conduit. The conduit is the ground path. Most commercial and industrial buildings look exactly like this.
Since they are individual wires, they are able to use any of 11 wire colors to disambiguate circuits, instead of the usual black white red. If you wish to add wires, you'd buy THWN-2 wires, stranded is more flexible but more tricky to put on screws.
Switches do not need any further attention to grounding.
Lamps and receptacles may need further attention. Look closely at how the yoke (metal frame, notably the top and bottom ears) make contact with the steel box. If all this is true:
- There is hard face-contact between the yoke and the metal box directly; the yoke is not floating out proud of the metal box connected only by screw threads, and
- The yoke and metal box are not contaminated by paint, rust or other detritus, and
- There is not any little little paper/plastic square that would capture the yoke screws,
then this clean hard-flush contact is an acceptable ground path.
If any of this is insufficient, you must ground the receptacle to the box. Somewhere in the back of the box will be a hole slightly different than the others. It is tapped #10-32 for a ground machine screw (bolt). You can use any 10-32 bolt (machine screw). They sell cute green 10-32 bolts in the hardware store, with or without pigtails pre-attached. Those are perfect.
Your house is wired using the EMT conduit wiring method. Individual wires are carried inside metal conduit. The conduit is the ground path. Most commercial and industrial buildings look exactly like this.
Since they are individual wires, they are able to use any of 11 wire colors to disambiguate circuits, instead of the usual black white red. If you wish to add wires, you'd buy THWN-2 wires, stranded is more flexible but more tricky to put on screws.
Switches do not need any further attention to grounding.
Lamps and receptacles may need further attention. Look closely at how the yoke (metal frame, notably the top and bottom ears) make contact with the steel box. If all this is true:
- There is hard face-contact between the yoke and the metal box directly; the yoke is not floating out proud of the metal box connected only by screw threads, and
- The yoke and metal box are not contaminated by paint, rust or other detritus, and
- There is not any little little paper/plastic square that would capture the yoke screws,
then this clean hard-flush contact is an acceptable ground path.
If any of this is insufficient, you must ground the receptacle to the box. Somewhere in the back of the box will be a hole slightly different than the others. It is tapped #10-32 for a ground machine screw (bolt). You can use any 10-32 bolt (machine screw). They sell cute green 10-32 bolts in the hardware store, with or without pigtails pre-attached. Those are perfect.
answered 7 hours ago
HarperHarper
80.3k555161
80.3k555161
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
BTW: he can also use self-grounding receptacles to take care of the receptacle-to-box grounding duty (and may be required to, for flushmount boxes)
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
@ThreephaseEel I can't seem to find those self-grounding receptacles.
– Sickest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your pictures appear to show metallic conduit carrying the wires to your boxes. The conduit is also an NEC approved grounding path, so no separate grounding wire is required for the distribution. This evidently is not the case in some other countries.
Current best practice (and code, so far as I recall) is to attach a grounding pigtail from the box (there is normally a raised bump with a threaded hole for this exact purpose) to the device, rather than depending on the mounting screws as a grounding means.
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your pictures appear to show metallic conduit carrying the wires to your boxes. The conduit is also an NEC approved grounding path, so no separate grounding wire is required for the distribution. This evidently is not the case in some other countries.
Current best practice (and code, so far as I recall) is to attach a grounding pigtail from the box (there is normally a raised bump with a threaded hole for this exact purpose) to the device, rather than depending on the mounting screws as a grounding means.
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your pictures appear to show metallic conduit carrying the wires to your boxes. The conduit is also an NEC approved grounding path, so no separate grounding wire is required for the distribution. This evidently is not the case in some other countries.
Current best practice (and code, so far as I recall) is to attach a grounding pigtail from the box (there is normally a raised bump with a threaded hole for this exact purpose) to the device, rather than depending on the mounting screws as a grounding means.
Your pictures appear to show metallic conduit carrying the wires to your boxes. The conduit is also an NEC approved grounding path, so no separate grounding wire is required for the distribution. This evidently is not the case in some other countries.
Current best practice (and code, so far as I recall) is to attach a grounding pigtail from the box (there is normally a raised bump with a threaded hole for this exact purpose) to the device, rather than depending on the mounting screws as a grounding means.
answered 8 hours ago
EcnerwalEcnerwal
58.3k24398
58.3k24398
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
In your opinion is metal conduit in a home a normal thing? Is it overkill? or is it what they did back then because 12-2 gauge cable didn't come with a grounding wire? I've recently helped an uncle build his new home and they did not put any metal conduit to carry the wires.
– Sickest
7 hours ago
4
4
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
It's not "normal" but it's an excellent idea - it's a much more damage-resistant wiring method, as any number of chewed-bare NM cables I've seen when remodeling will attest, so your house is a LOT less likely to "have an electrical fire" it also makes upgrading or changing much easier. NM is just "cheap" in every sense of the word, which is why it's common. NM is ONLY allowed in residential, as the fire risk is considered too great for other occupancies...
– Ecnerwal
7 hours ago
1
1
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
So basically I need to go through every single outlet in the house, and attach a ground wire to the outlet and the metal box to have the safest possible scenario?
– Sickest
7 hours ago
1
1
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
@Sickest -- it's certainly much more common to see metal conduit in commercial/industrial/institutional work, but it's definitely not forbidden in residential, and some places (hi, Chicago!) require metal conduit in all construction, even
– ThreePhaseEel
6 hours ago
2
2
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
Conduit is definitely a "class act" way to do it. The beauty thing of conduit is you can use existing conduit routes to add circuits (up to 4 per conduit), so it makes it easy to customize your wiring. For instance if you keep tripping breakers in the kitchen, just throw another circuit in alongside the existing one. Even if you're extending, you can use existing conduit for the homerun - there's no need to bust up any more drywall than you absolutely have to. Also you get the wire colors you want, which is much easier on troubleshooting...
– Harper
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
If your house was built in 1989, it would have needed to have ground wires in all of the outlets. The requirement went into effect in the 1968 NEC. Now if your house was built in 1969, it might be that in your state, the 1968 NEC was not yet adopted. Some states take a while to adopt changed to the NEC. But not 20 years...
Grounding is a safety issue, but because it is a MANDATORY safety issue, many electronic devices rely upon that solid ground connection to eliminate electrical noise (or give it an easy path to ground). If you have 3 prong outlets but the ground wire is not connected, you have no grounding so not only is it less safe, it is also likely unhealthy for some of your electronics. In a nutshell if your device has a 3 prong plug, it probably NEEDS the ground connection, if it has a 2 prong plug, it doesn't.
A GFCI by the way does NOT "fix" that issue, it just looks at the current flow coming in and going back, and if they are not the same (ostensibly because something is going to ground) it opens the circuit.
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
If your house was built in 1989, it would have needed to have ground wires in all of the outlets. The requirement went into effect in the 1968 NEC. Now if your house was built in 1969, it might be that in your state, the 1968 NEC was not yet adopted. Some states take a while to adopt changed to the NEC. But not 20 years...
Grounding is a safety issue, but because it is a MANDATORY safety issue, many electronic devices rely upon that solid ground connection to eliminate electrical noise (or give it an easy path to ground). If you have 3 prong outlets but the ground wire is not connected, you have no grounding so not only is it less safe, it is also likely unhealthy for some of your electronics. In a nutshell if your device has a 3 prong plug, it probably NEEDS the ground connection, if it has a 2 prong plug, it doesn't.
A GFCI by the way does NOT "fix" that issue, it just looks at the current flow coming in and going back, and if they are not the same (ostensibly because something is going to ground) it opens the circuit.
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
If your house was built in 1989, it would have needed to have ground wires in all of the outlets. The requirement went into effect in the 1968 NEC. Now if your house was built in 1969, it might be that in your state, the 1968 NEC was not yet adopted. Some states take a while to adopt changed to the NEC. But not 20 years...
Grounding is a safety issue, but because it is a MANDATORY safety issue, many electronic devices rely upon that solid ground connection to eliminate electrical noise (or give it an easy path to ground). If you have 3 prong outlets but the ground wire is not connected, you have no grounding so not only is it less safe, it is also likely unhealthy for some of your electronics. In a nutshell if your device has a 3 prong plug, it probably NEEDS the ground connection, if it has a 2 prong plug, it doesn't.
A GFCI by the way does NOT "fix" that issue, it just looks at the current flow coming in and going back, and if they are not the same (ostensibly because something is going to ground) it opens the circuit.
If your house was built in 1989, it would have needed to have ground wires in all of the outlets. The requirement went into effect in the 1968 NEC. Now if your house was built in 1969, it might be that in your state, the 1968 NEC was not yet adopted. Some states take a while to adopt changed to the NEC. But not 20 years...
Grounding is a safety issue, but because it is a MANDATORY safety issue, many electronic devices rely upon that solid ground connection to eliminate electrical noise (or give it an easy path to ground). If you have 3 prong outlets but the ground wire is not connected, you have no grounding so not only is it less safe, it is also likely unhealthy for some of your electronics. In a nutshell if your device has a 3 prong plug, it probably NEEDS the ground connection, if it has a 2 prong plug, it doesn't.
A GFCI by the way does NOT "fix" that issue, it just looks at the current flow coming in and going back, and if they are not the same (ostensibly because something is going to ground) it opens the circuit.
answered 8 hours ago
J. RaefieldJ. Raefield
5,038213
5,038213
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
Let's assume I do have grounding. If i can't see the grounding cable physically, how would the electricians have grounded my outlets? What would have been the standard way of doing that to code? you also discuss how it's unhealthy for some of my electronics, can you go into more detail about that? I also want to note, we have zero 2 prong plugs.
– Sickest
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
If you have METAL outlet boxes, it was acceptable at one time to attach a ground wire to the box, then when you attached the receptacle to the box, it was grounded. That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box. If your boxes are not metal, it is illegal altogether to not have the ground wire attached to the device.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
Some electronic devices create what is called "common mode noise" that is electrical noise / hash that is trying to get back to ground. If you don't give it an easy path to ground, it floats around (for lack of a better term) in the power circuit making trouble for your sensitive electronics as it tries to find a way to get to ground. that can eventually cause components in your devices to fail prematurely.
– J. Raefield
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
"That is no longer allowed though, you must attach the ground wire to the device and have a "pigtail" that attaches to the box." Would it possible to simply cut a grounding wire and attach the wire from my outlet to the metal box and then it would be up to code? Because i'm assuming it's no longer allowed because it's possible the outlet isn't touching the metal box, correct?
– Sickest
8 hours ago
1
1
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
The pictures were not up when I responded. Yes, conduit, though not terribly common in residences, changes the game a lot.
– J. Raefield
5 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
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2
Are all the wires in the house run in metal conduit and metal junction boxes?
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
Where in the world are you? "Decora" leads me to assume USA.
– brhans
9 hours ago
@Jphi1618 I edited my post. I forgot the mention that, cause I know it matters due to other posts on here that i've read. brhans: California
– Sickest
9 hours ago
1
If the house was built in 1989, it's very unlikely there is no grounding unless you're working in a addition or remodel that wasn't done properly.
– JPhi1618
9 hours ago
1
No, I mean the back of the boxes as in what's directly behind the receptacle or switch, which you say you've been changing right along. 1) remove the cover plate 2) remove the receptacle or switch. 3) note how wires enter and snap photo of it 4) edit post and hit mountain and sun button above edit window.
– Harper
9 hours ago