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Can I prevent my opponent from looking at cards with Vizier of the Menagerie while I'm Mindslaving them?

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3

Vizier of the Menagerie says "You may look at the top card of your library," and Mindslaver says you "make all decisions for the player."

What I'm wondering is can the player who's being controlled see the top card of their library as their turn is taken for them? In other words, if I'm Mindslavering someone and I get to make all decisions for them, then I get to decide when they look at the top card of their library, so I can decide that they don't get to look at it.

I'm not sure about this, but based on all the Gatherer rules, I would say that the controlled player and the controlling player can both look at the card because the card becomes part of the "known information" to the player who controls the Vizier (so they can always know it) and since they always know it, the Mindslaver controller also knows it.

magic-the-gathering

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edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

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3

Vizier of the Menagerie says "You may look at the top card of your library," and Mindslaver says you "make all decisions for the player."

What I'm wondering is can the player who's being controlled see the top card of their library as their turn is taken for them? In other words, if I'm Mindslavering someone and I get to make all decisions for them, then I get to decide when they look at the top card of their library, so I can decide that they don't get to look at it.

I'm not sure about this, but based on all the Gatherer rules, I would say that the controlled player and the controlling player can both look at the card because the card becomes part of the "known information" to the player who controls the Vizier (so they can always know it) and since they always know it, the Mindslaver controller also knows it.

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

47.1k33 gold badges103103 silver badges189189 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

nullromonullromo

1833 bronze badges

New contributor

nullromo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

add a comment | 

Vizier of the Menagerie says "You may look at the top card of your library," and Mindslaver says you "make all decisions for the player."

What I'm wondering is can the player who's being controlled see the top card of their library as their turn is taken for them? In other words, if I'm Mindslavering someone and I get to make all decisions for them, then I get to decide when they look at the top card of their library, so I can decide that they don't get to look at it.

I'm not sure about this, but based on all the Gatherer rules, I would say that the controlled player and the controlling player can both look at the card because the card becomes part of the "known information" to the player who controls the Vizier (so they can always know it) and since they always know it, the Mindslaver controller also knows it.

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

47.1k33 gold badges103103 silver badges189189 bronze badges

asked 9 hours ago

nullromonullromo

1833 bronze badges

New contributor

nullromo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

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asked 9 hours ago

nullromonullromo

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New contributor

nullromo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

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asked 9 hours ago

nullromonullromo

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edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

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edited 8 hours ago

GendoIkari

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asked 9 hours ago

nullromonullromo

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nullromonullromo

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1 Answer
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3

Yes, the Mindslaver's controller may prevent the controlled player from taking that specific action.

---

Mindslaver's rulings say:

You get to make every decision the other player would have made during that turn. You can’t make any illegal decisions or illegal choices — you can’t do anything that player couldn’t do. You can spend mana in the player’s mana pool only on that player’s spells and abilities. The mana in your mana pool can be spent only on your spells and abilities.

Since looking at the top card of your library is an action you may take while controlling Vizier of the Menagerie, the player controlling the turn may simply choose not to take this action.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think you misread the question. It wasn't asking if the controlling player could look at the card... it was asking if the controlling player can prevent the controlled player from looking at the card.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @GendoIkari that's exactly what my answer says. The controlling player cannot prevent the controlled player from looking at the card because every action is still taken by the controlled player, although the controlling player is the one choosing which actions are those.
  
  – J. Sallé
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, the question wasn't about the controller looking at the card without the controlled also seeing it. It was about if the controller can simply make the controlled choose to not do the "look at the top card" action; meaning neither player would see it.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I see your point; the title of the question misled me. I'll edit accordingly.
  
  – J. Sallé
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I edited the title slightly to hopefully avoid that confusion.
  
  – GendoIkari
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

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3

Yes, the Mindslaver's controller may prevent the controlled player from taking that specific action.

---

Mindslaver's rulings say:

You get to make every decision the other player would have made during that turn. You can’t make any illegal decisions or illegal choices — you can’t do anything that player couldn’t do. You can spend mana in the player’s mana pool only on that player’s spells and abilities. The mana in your mana pool can be spent only on your spells and abilities.

Since looking at the top card of your library is an action you may take while controlling Vizier of the Menagerie, the player controlling the turn may simply choose not to take this action.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think you misread the question. It wasn't asking if the controlling player could look at the card... it was asking if the controlling player can prevent the controlled player from looking at the card.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @GendoIkari that's exactly what my answer says. The controlling player cannot prevent the controlled player from looking at the card because every action is still taken by the controlled player, although the controlling player is the one choosing which actions are those.
  
  – J. Sallé
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, the question wasn't about the controller looking at the card without the controlled also seeing it. It was about if the controller can simply make the controlled choose to not do the "look at the top card" action; meaning neither player would see it.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I see your point; the title of the question misled me. I'll edit accordingly.
  
  – J. Sallé
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I edited the title slightly to hopefully avoid that confusion.
  
  – GendoIkari
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

3

Yes, the Mindslaver's controller may prevent the controlled player from taking that specific action.

---

Mindslaver's rulings say:

You get to make every decision the other player would have made during that turn. You can’t make any illegal decisions or illegal choices — you can’t do anything that player couldn’t do. You can spend mana in the player’s mana pool only on that player’s spells and abilities. The mana in your mana pool can be spent only on your spells and abilities.

Since looking at the top card of your library is an action you may take while controlling Vizier of the Menagerie, the player controlling the turn may simply choose not to take this action.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think you misread the question. It wasn't asking if the controlling player could look at the card... it was asking if the controlling player can prevent the controlled player from looking at the card.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @GendoIkari that's exactly what my answer says. The controlling player cannot prevent the controlled player from looking at the card because every action is still taken by the controlled player, although the controlling player is the one choosing which actions are those.
  
  – J. Sallé
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, the question wasn't about the controller looking at the card without the controlled also seeing it. It was about if the controller can simply make the controlled choose to not do the "look at the top card" action; meaning neither player would see it.
  
  – GendoIkari
  9 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I see your point; the title of the question misled me. I'll edit accordingly.
  
  – J. Sallé
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I edited the title slightly to hopefully avoid that confusion.
  
  – GendoIkari
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

Yes, the Mindslaver's controller may prevent the controlled player from taking that specific action.

---

Mindslaver's rulings say:

You get to make every decision the other player would have made during that turn. You can’t make any illegal decisions or illegal choices — you can’t do anything that player couldn’t do. You can spend mana in the player’s mana pool only on that player’s spells and abilities. The mana in your mana pool can be spent only on your spells and abilities.

Since looking at the top card of your library is an action you may take while controlling Vizier of the Menagerie, the player controlling the turn may simply choose not to take this action.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges

answered 9 hours ago

J. SalléJ. Sallé

1,99455 silver badges2020 bronze badges