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Don't the events of “Forest of the Dead” contradict the fixed point in “The Wedding of River Song”?

How come River Song knew about the events of Demons Run before they happened?Is River Song dead?Is Peter Tyler's Death a Fixed Point in the Timeline?Why does River Song say how young the tenth doctor is?How do Amy and Rory know who River is in The Wedding of River Song?Won't River Song and the Doctor still have to have some sort of relationship in the next series?When did the Doctor and River Song marry?Why not just download River Song?Why is River Song surprised when the Doctor doesn't recognize her?Is the Teselecta a fixed point in time and space?

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3

In "Forest of the Dead" the Doctor saved River's consciousness by uploading it to CAL. She also says how the Doctor brought her to Darillium and how she now knew the Doctor always knew how she dies. Then in "The Wedding of River Song" the Doctor has to die at the fixed point. If he knew that he was going to live past the fixed point because he never took River to Darillium yet, then why did he still let the fixed point happen?

If some of you say that's because he knew he would die on Trenzalore, the Silence made the fixed point so he wouldn't.

doctor-who river-song

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edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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  He's already rebooted the universe by then and got rewound out of existence. And popped back in good as new. I don't think he's counting on "I know the future" as a get out of death free card.
  
  – Radhil
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

In "Forest of the Dead" the Doctor saved River's consciousness by uploading it to CAL. She also says how the Doctor brought her to Darillium and how she now knew the Doctor always knew how she dies. Then in "The Wedding of River Song" the Doctor has to die at the fixed point. If he knew that he was going to live past the fixed point because he never took River to Darillium yet, then why did he still let the fixed point happen?

If some of you say that's because he knew he would die on Trenzalore, the Silence made the fixed point so he wouldn't.

doctor-who river-song

share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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asked 8 hours ago

JuniorinJuniorin

1611 bronze badge

New contributor

Juniorin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  He's already rebooted the universe by then and got rewound out of existence. And popped back in good as new. I don't think he's counting on "I know the future" as a get out of death free card.
  
  – Radhil
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

In "Forest of the Dead" the Doctor saved River's consciousness by uploading it to CAL. She also says how the Doctor brought her to Darillium and how she now knew the Doctor always knew how she dies. Then in "The Wedding of River Song" the Doctor has to die at the fixed point. If he knew that he was going to live past the fixed point because he never took River to Darillium yet, then why did he still let the fixed point happen?

If some of you say that's because he knew he would die on Trenzalore, the Silence made the fixed point so he wouldn't.

doctor-who river-song

share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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asked 8 hours ago

JuniorinJuniorin

1611 bronze badge

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Juniorin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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JuniorinJuniorin

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share|improve this question

edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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JuniorinJuniorin

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edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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edited 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦

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asked 8 hours ago

JuniorinJuniorin

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asked 8 hours ago

JuniorinJuniorin

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5

Time can be rewritten. At least sometimes.

The whole idea of a "fixed point in time" is that it's one specific event which cannot be changed or rewritten. No matter how much time travel happens around it, some things must always happen. We see this in, for example, "The Waters of Mars", when the Doctor tries to change a fixed death and it just happens anyway.

DOCTOR: I'm sorry, but I can't. Sometimes I can, sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone, or anyone. But not you. You wondered all your life why that Dalek spared you. I think it knew. Your death is fixed in time for ever. And that's right.

In "The Wedding of River Song" (and elsewhere in Series 6), the event of River shooting the Doctor at Lake Silencio is a fixed point in time. When she changes it, the whole universe collapses until she decides to make it happen after all.

But there's no indication that Darillium is a fixed point. Perhaps it's one of those things where, in theory, the Doctor or another time traveller could prevent it from happening and the universe and timelines would simply adjust themselves.

• From his point of view, perhaps it did already happen and for some reason his memory of it disappeared. (River Song has met earlier incarnations than the Tenth Doctor, at least in some levels of canon, and presumably memories of those disappeared since he didn't remember her in "Silence in the Library".)


• Perhaps he simply didn't notice the contradiction between her Darillium line and his supposed death at Lake Silencio. Perhaps when he did realise it was when he started making the plan with the Teselecta.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey ... It's Doctor Who - don't try to make too much sense of its internal consistency.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

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• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  My experience - Most writers seem to use the rule of thumb that whatever has been witnessed has been fixed. Or that the Doctor's lying and fixed points / time in flux / timey wimey is just his shorthand for getting the muggles to go along with how he thinks it's working at the moment - which I think Rory's constant dead / not-dead shenanigans leans into.
  
  – Radhil
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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5

Time can be rewritten. At least sometimes.

The whole idea of a "fixed point in time" is that it's one specific event which cannot be changed or rewritten. No matter how much time travel happens around it, some things must always happen. We see this in, for example, "The Waters of Mars", when the Doctor tries to change a fixed death and it just happens anyway.

DOCTOR: I'm sorry, but I can't. Sometimes I can, sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone, or anyone. But not you. You wondered all your life why that Dalek spared you. I think it knew. Your death is fixed in time for ever. And that's right.

In "The Wedding of River Song" (and elsewhere in Series 6), the event of River shooting the Doctor at Lake Silencio is a fixed point in time. When she changes it, the whole universe collapses until she decides to make it happen after all.

But there's no indication that Darillium is a fixed point. Perhaps it's one of those things where, in theory, the Doctor or another time traveller could prevent it from happening and the universe and timelines would simply adjust themselves.

• From his point of view, perhaps it did already happen and for some reason his memory of it disappeared. (River Song has met earlier incarnations than the Tenth Doctor, at least in some levels of canon, and presumably memories of those disappeared since he didn't remember her in "Silence in the Library".)


• Perhaps he simply didn't notice the contradiction between her Darillium line and his supposed death at Lake Silencio. Perhaps when he did realise it was when he started making the plan with the Teselecta.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey ... It's Doctor Who - don't try to make too much sense of its internal consistency.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  My experience - Most writers seem to use the rule of thumb that whatever has been witnessed has been fixed. Or that the Doctor's lying and fixed points / time in flux / timey wimey is just his shorthand for getting the muggles to go along with how he thinks it's working at the moment - which I think Rory's constant dead / not-dead shenanigans leans into.
  
  – Radhil
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

5

Time can be rewritten. At least sometimes.

The whole idea of a "fixed point in time" is that it's one specific event which cannot be changed or rewritten. No matter how much time travel happens around it, some things must always happen. We see this in, for example, "The Waters of Mars", when the Doctor tries to change a fixed death and it just happens anyway.

DOCTOR: I'm sorry, but I can't. Sometimes I can, sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone, or anyone. But not you. You wondered all your life why that Dalek spared you. I think it knew. Your death is fixed in time for ever. And that's right.

In "The Wedding of River Song" (and elsewhere in Series 6), the event of River shooting the Doctor at Lake Silencio is a fixed point in time. When she changes it, the whole universe collapses until she decides to make it happen after all.

But there's no indication that Darillium is a fixed point. Perhaps it's one of those things where, in theory, the Doctor or another time traveller could prevent it from happening and the universe and timelines would simply adjust themselves.

• From his point of view, perhaps it did already happen and for some reason his memory of it disappeared. (River Song has met earlier incarnations than the Tenth Doctor, at least in some levels of canon, and presumably memories of those disappeared since he didn't remember her in "Silence in the Library".)


• Perhaps he simply didn't notice the contradiction between her Darillium line and his supposed death at Lake Silencio. Perhaps when he did realise it was when he started making the plan with the Teselecta.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey ... It's Doctor Who - don't try to make too much sense of its internal consistency.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  My experience - Most writers seem to use the rule of thumb that whatever has been witnessed has been fixed. Or that the Doctor's lying and fixed points / time in flux / timey wimey is just his shorthand for getting the muggles to go along with how he thinks it's working at the moment - which I think Rory's constant dead / not-dead shenanigans leans into.
  
  – Radhil
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Time can be rewritten. At least sometimes.

The whole idea of a "fixed point in time" is that it's one specific event which cannot be changed or rewritten. No matter how much time travel happens around it, some things must always happen. We see this in, for example, "The Waters of Mars", when the Doctor tries to change a fixed death and it just happens anyway.

DOCTOR: I'm sorry, but I can't. Sometimes I can, sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone, or anyone. But not you. You wondered all your life why that Dalek spared you. I think it knew. Your death is fixed in time for ever. And that's right.

In "The Wedding of River Song" (and elsewhere in Series 6), the event of River shooting the Doctor at Lake Silencio is a fixed point in time. When she changes it, the whole universe collapses until she decides to make it happen after all.

But there's no indication that Darillium is a fixed point. Perhaps it's one of those things where, in theory, the Doctor or another time traveller could prevent it from happening and the universe and timelines would simply adjust themselves.

• From his point of view, perhaps it did already happen and for some reason his memory of it disappeared. (River Song has met earlier incarnations than the Tenth Doctor, at least in some levels of canon, and presumably memories of those disappeared since he didn't remember her in "Silence in the Library".)


• Perhaps he simply didn't notice the contradiction between her Darillium line and his supposed death at Lake Silencio. Perhaps when he did realise it was when he started making the plan with the Teselecta.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey ... It's Doctor Who - don't try to make too much sense of its internal consistency.

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

Rand al'Thor♦Rand al'Thor

101k4646 gold badges483483 silver badges672672 bronze badges