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How to gently end involvement with an online community?


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.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







11















Since 2011 I'm a member of an online community for Animal Crossing players. Sadly many things are changing in gaming world and many of these changes combined with new interests which I have found in the last years are making the majority of gaming communities no longer appealing for me and for this reason I'm quitting almost all of them but local Pokèmon Go groups and a small FB group of Pokèmon fans.



With the majority of them it was easy as leaving a Telegram group but I can't do that in this particular Animal Crossing group for two reasons:




  • There I have a dear friend (I knew her in the community in 2011 and this year I had the occasion to meet her)

  • I'm the only who knows how to code and we're building a new website which involves a lot of JavaScript


The first "problem" was easily solved with a heartfelt conversation with my friend but the second problem keeps pestering me since community directors keeps asking features for the site building a very big backlog.



I'm the only one who can code so even spending hours programming (this week I spent on average 2/3 hours each day programming for them in addition to my fulltime programming job) I'm very slow to fulfill their requests. The backlock keep growing since they are asking at a faster pace than I can build.



I cannot leave before the site is finished since if I leave the project dies for lack of programmers and since I promised to build this site before my decision to leave I don't want to leave keeping a promise unfulfilled. But if I keep following through their requests I'm afraid that the backlog will grow to a years long project when I want to be completely free by February 2020 in order to take my time and energies back and focus on other projects.



After this long explanation the question is: what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020 so I'm no longer accepting new features proposal and maybe to deal for a reduction of the backlog?










share|improve this question






















  • 3





    I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    9 hours ago













  • Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

    – marcelm
    4 hours ago


















11















Since 2011 I'm a member of an online community for Animal Crossing players. Sadly many things are changing in gaming world and many of these changes combined with new interests which I have found in the last years are making the majority of gaming communities no longer appealing for me and for this reason I'm quitting almost all of them but local Pokèmon Go groups and a small FB group of Pokèmon fans.



With the majority of them it was easy as leaving a Telegram group but I can't do that in this particular Animal Crossing group for two reasons:




  • There I have a dear friend (I knew her in the community in 2011 and this year I had the occasion to meet her)

  • I'm the only who knows how to code and we're building a new website which involves a lot of JavaScript


The first "problem" was easily solved with a heartfelt conversation with my friend but the second problem keeps pestering me since community directors keeps asking features for the site building a very big backlog.



I'm the only one who can code so even spending hours programming (this week I spent on average 2/3 hours each day programming for them in addition to my fulltime programming job) I'm very slow to fulfill their requests. The backlock keep growing since they are asking at a faster pace than I can build.



I cannot leave before the site is finished since if I leave the project dies for lack of programmers and since I promised to build this site before my decision to leave I don't want to leave keeping a promise unfulfilled. But if I keep following through their requests I'm afraid that the backlog will grow to a years long project when I want to be completely free by February 2020 in order to take my time and energies back and focus on other projects.



After this long explanation the question is: what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020 so I'm no longer accepting new features proposal and maybe to deal for a reduction of the backlog?










share|improve this question






















  • 3





    I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    9 hours ago













  • Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

    – marcelm
    4 hours ago














11












11








11








Since 2011 I'm a member of an online community for Animal Crossing players. Sadly many things are changing in gaming world and many of these changes combined with new interests which I have found in the last years are making the majority of gaming communities no longer appealing for me and for this reason I'm quitting almost all of them but local Pokèmon Go groups and a small FB group of Pokèmon fans.



With the majority of them it was easy as leaving a Telegram group but I can't do that in this particular Animal Crossing group for two reasons:




  • There I have a dear friend (I knew her in the community in 2011 and this year I had the occasion to meet her)

  • I'm the only who knows how to code and we're building a new website which involves a lot of JavaScript


The first "problem" was easily solved with a heartfelt conversation with my friend but the second problem keeps pestering me since community directors keeps asking features for the site building a very big backlog.



I'm the only one who can code so even spending hours programming (this week I spent on average 2/3 hours each day programming for them in addition to my fulltime programming job) I'm very slow to fulfill their requests. The backlock keep growing since they are asking at a faster pace than I can build.



I cannot leave before the site is finished since if I leave the project dies for lack of programmers and since I promised to build this site before my decision to leave I don't want to leave keeping a promise unfulfilled. But if I keep following through their requests I'm afraid that the backlog will grow to a years long project when I want to be completely free by February 2020 in order to take my time and energies back and focus on other projects.



After this long explanation the question is: what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020 so I'm no longer accepting new features proposal and maybe to deal for a reduction of the backlog?










share|improve this question
















Since 2011 I'm a member of an online community for Animal Crossing players. Sadly many things are changing in gaming world and many of these changes combined with new interests which I have found in the last years are making the majority of gaming communities no longer appealing for me and for this reason I'm quitting almost all of them but local Pokèmon Go groups and a small FB group of Pokèmon fans.



With the majority of them it was easy as leaving a Telegram group but I can't do that in this particular Animal Crossing group for two reasons:




  • There I have a dear friend (I knew her in the community in 2011 and this year I had the occasion to meet her)

  • I'm the only who knows how to code and we're building a new website which involves a lot of JavaScript


The first "problem" was easily solved with a heartfelt conversation with my friend but the second problem keeps pestering me since community directors keeps asking features for the site building a very big backlog.



I'm the only one who can code so even spending hours programming (this week I spent on average 2/3 hours each day programming for them in addition to my fulltime programming job) I'm very slow to fulfill their requests. The backlock keep growing since they are asking at a faster pace than I can build.



I cannot leave before the site is finished since if I leave the project dies for lack of programmers and since I promised to build this site before my decision to leave I don't want to leave keeping a promise unfulfilled. But if I keep following through their requests I'm afraid that the backlog will grow to a years long project when I want to be completely free by February 2020 in order to take my time and energies back and focus on other projects.



After this long explanation the question is: what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020 so I'm no longer accepting new features proposal and maybe to deal for a reduction of the backlog?







friends saying-no online-interaction friend-groups






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









Ælis

8,3008 gold badges32 silver badges79 bronze badges




8,3008 gold badges32 silver badges79 bronze badges










asked yesterday









Emiliano S.Emiliano S.

1086 bronze badges




1086 bronze badges











  • 3





    I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    9 hours ago













  • Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

    – marcelm
    4 hours ago














  • 3





    I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

    – Jörg W Mittag
    9 hours ago













  • Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

    – marcelm
    4 hours ago








3




3





I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

– Jörg W Mittag
9 hours ago







I feel that in addition to the Interpersonal Skills question, there is also a Project Management or Software Engineering question in here, although one that has probably already been asked and answered. Basically, you need to do proper project management on this project, like you would in your job as well: have your clients prioritize, attack the tasks in order of priority, and when you leave, then, well you leave a lot of unfinished tasks behind, but you can at least be certain that those unfinished tasks are the least important.

– Jörg W Mittag
9 hours ago















Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

– marcelm
4 hours ago





Regarding your friendship with that one person; could you stay in touch with her through other channels if you withdraw from that community? That might make that problem easier to tackle.

– marcelm
4 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















22
















what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020




You say exactly that. Make a post, either on your website or some other site (I've seen similar posts on Twitlonger) that explains what you've said here. That the community has been a wonderful part of your life for almost a decade, but that you just have to move on. It can be short or long, but it has to be unequivocal. Something like:




Friends,



Words cannot express how wonderful it has been to be a part of this community. Over the past X years we've grown from Y to Z members. We've been through N expansions/versions/games together. <-insert anecdote about something relevant to the community->



Unfortunately, times change and all good things must come to an end. Both my work-life and irl personal life are evolving, and I'm finding myself with less and less time to spend with you all.



As many of you know, I've been working on our community website. I am looking for someone to take up the reins on this project after I leave. Given my new work commitments, after January I will no longer be able to take an active development role, and maintaining and building this site will fall to you, the community.



I will be reaching out to a few people about taking over and hope to announce something shortly, but in the meantime if you're interested in getting involved, or know someone who is, please feel free to reach out to me.



All the best,



Emiliano




Best case: someone steps forward and takes over.



Medium case: no one steps up but you get it in a decent shape by February and the lack of development afterwards isn't a big deal.



Worst case: You don't finish, no one steps up, the site isn't great, and the community moves to Discord/Reddit/something else. Tons of communities live on those and do perfectly well. It wouldn't be a tragedy if this happens. A bummer, sure, but if the community wants to stay together they'll be able to.



Regardless, be firm about the February cutoff. They've got nearly 5 months to prepare. You don't have to feel bad about leaving. Don't let anyone bully you into staying. You've been volunteering your time (and potentially money) for the community and they have no right to make you feel bad about that.



As for the message itself, I would personally avoid going into all of your grievances with the changing landscape of online communities. That's a good way to alienate people right when you're looking for them to come together. Just be nice, talk about the good times, and let it go.



edit: To give some context, I haven't been in your position, but I have been in communities (MMO guilds mostly) that have gone through what you're describing, and the biggest points to hit are bringing up the "good times" and giving plenty of warning.






share|improve this answer










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pip install frisbee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

    – Emiliano S.
    yesterday






  • 1





    You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

    – jmathew
    yesterday





















6















I've been involved the same way, but IRL. Our community of players was meeting twice a month for several hours, playing all sunday long. I had created the community from scratch, and did all of the job on the website, as I was (and remained for years) the only one who could work on dev. Then came the time to move on, and leave...



What I did then was:




  1. honestly explain everything (why I was leaving: time, new professional project...and so on)

  2. tell them very early that I would leave.

  3. provide them with solutions if needed/possible.


Point #1 : in my case, why I would leave, how sorry I was, lack of time, personal energy bar hitting the very bottom...etc. I first sent a email to our group and posted a message on our forum, telling them that we would discuss this next sunday. In your case, with your words and deadlines: tell the truth, explain, be nice and calm, show empathy, ask for understanding.



Point #2 : in my case, provide them with a 6-months timeline; in your case: ditto. No problemo.



Point #3 : no one could step in and replace me 100%. So I offered them another option for the only things that they weren't able to do by themselves (update of database for standings, meetings and a couple of other things that required dev knowledge), in this case, some google sheets that could be modified and that everybody could see online. They did that.



As a "team leader" for the community, I had more responsabilities that just the website, so we even had time to run elections and have a new board of people taking responsabilities. Honesty and time is just what's needed here, I believe.






share|improve this answer



































    0















    I'd point out the continued scope creep of features in some time-related fashion to make everyone know it's unrealistic (and probably rude) of them to keep dumping more and more features on you w/o concern for your life, schedule, etc.



    Basically.. people often don't appreciate something that costs them nothing. It costs them very little to dream up ideas and dump them on you. Meanwhile, someone has to eventually do the work, and that work takes time. You are the one stuck with the work.



    Unless you speak up about everyone taking advantage of you, you'll run into this situation again and again in your life. IE: you're the person that volunteers to help, everyone just sees you as a free resource, and nobody thinks about your time; they just dump tasks on you. It's because you're not speaking up early on.



    A lot of modders end up with this issue. They take on a project, then suddenly everyone with an idea wants to pork belly the idea onto the mod, or ask the modder to fix some bug that wasn't part of the plan, etc.



    You have to draw a line, and also make it clear how much of your time you're spending working on things.



    B/c to these folks, all they know is they dream up something, and then expect you to do it. They start to get into a "slave labor" mentality... a "when will this be done? well, hurry up!" mentality. It's because they're not the ones working on it, and it's not costing them anything to get it done; you're the one paying with your time and opportunity cost.



    So, you have to explain to these folks how much of your time you're dedicating to things, how much it's eating into your life, what things you're sacrificing to take on their stuff (time is not free.. it's opportunity cost. When you choose to work on their stuff, you are giving up time you could be doing something else with.)



    There will be people that don't understand or don't care, and those are the ones you just have to be firm with... or just ignore new requests from.



    Because.. you're the one with the problem here. So, the goal is to make your problem their problem by limiting the work you can do, limiting the tasks you accept from them, and eventually having a cut-off point and calling it quits.



    What I've noticed with online communities, modding communities, etc.. there's always tons of folks willing to come up with ideas and yap about them.. but when it comes down to doing actual work, many of them do not want to give up their time to do it. So, when someone comes along that's willing to sacrifice their personal time to work on things, they start to mistreat taht person very quickly. Often you'll find modding teams that have like 5 folks... 1 person doing the web-site, 3 "idea" people (one probably joined to do "art assets", but hasn't done squat.. and the other 2 promised to do some work but never have, but wanted to get tied to the project since it's high-profile and "cool"), and 1 person doing all the real work. That 1 person has to draw a line in the sand.



    If folks really want things done, they can learn to do javascript, or go solicit others to do work for them.



    But, when you give folks free labor, it's not costing them anything, so they quickly start to abuse it.



    Just find a cut-off point, explain how much time things are taking you, explain how you cuold be doing other things with that time but instead you chose to work on their stuff.. and how it's gotten abusive and you need to just move along.



    Hopefully it will turn into a learning opportunity for them.



    Chances are it won't.



    But, this is a learning opportunity for you to identify when folks are abusing your good will and when you need to leave.






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    • 1





      Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

      – OldPadawan
      10 hours ago











    • Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

      – Ælis
      9 hours ago











    • @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

      – marcelm
      4 hours ago
















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    22
















    what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020




    You say exactly that. Make a post, either on your website or some other site (I've seen similar posts on Twitlonger) that explains what you've said here. That the community has been a wonderful part of your life for almost a decade, but that you just have to move on. It can be short or long, but it has to be unequivocal. Something like:




    Friends,



    Words cannot express how wonderful it has been to be a part of this community. Over the past X years we've grown from Y to Z members. We've been through N expansions/versions/games together. <-insert anecdote about something relevant to the community->



    Unfortunately, times change and all good things must come to an end. Both my work-life and irl personal life are evolving, and I'm finding myself with less and less time to spend with you all.



    As many of you know, I've been working on our community website. I am looking for someone to take up the reins on this project after I leave. Given my new work commitments, after January I will no longer be able to take an active development role, and maintaining and building this site will fall to you, the community.



    I will be reaching out to a few people about taking over and hope to announce something shortly, but in the meantime if you're interested in getting involved, or know someone who is, please feel free to reach out to me.



    All the best,



    Emiliano




    Best case: someone steps forward and takes over.



    Medium case: no one steps up but you get it in a decent shape by February and the lack of development afterwards isn't a big deal.



    Worst case: You don't finish, no one steps up, the site isn't great, and the community moves to Discord/Reddit/something else. Tons of communities live on those and do perfectly well. It wouldn't be a tragedy if this happens. A bummer, sure, but if the community wants to stay together they'll be able to.



    Regardless, be firm about the February cutoff. They've got nearly 5 months to prepare. You don't have to feel bad about leaving. Don't let anyone bully you into staying. You've been volunteering your time (and potentially money) for the community and they have no right to make you feel bad about that.



    As for the message itself, I would personally avoid going into all of your grievances with the changing landscape of online communities. That's a good way to alienate people right when you're looking for them to come together. Just be nice, talk about the good times, and let it go.



    edit: To give some context, I haven't been in your position, but I have been in communities (MMO guilds mostly) that have gone through what you're describing, and the biggest points to hit are bringing up the "good times" and giving plenty of warning.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    pip install frisbee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















    • Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

      – Emiliano S.
      yesterday






    • 1





      You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

      – jmathew
      yesterday


















    22
















    what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020




    You say exactly that. Make a post, either on your website or some other site (I've seen similar posts on Twitlonger) that explains what you've said here. That the community has been a wonderful part of your life for almost a decade, but that you just have to move on. It can be short or long, but it has to be unequivocal. Something like:




    Friends,



    Words cannot express how wonderful it has been to be a part of this community. Over the past X years we've grown from Y to Z members. We've been through N expansions/versions/games together. <-insert anecdote about something relevant to the community->



    Unfortunately, times change and all good things must come to an end. Both my work-life and irl personal life are evolving, and I'm finding myself with less and less time to spend with you all.



    As many of you know, I've been working on our community website. I am looking for someone to take up the reins on this project after I leave. Given my new work commitments, after January I will no longer be able to take an active development role, and maintaining and building this site will fall to you, the community.



    I will be reaching out to a few people about taking over and hope to announce something shortly, but in the meantime if you're interested in getting involved, or know someone who is, please feel free to reach out to me.



    All the best,



    Emiliano




    Best case: someone steps forward and takes over.



    Medium case: no one steps up but you get it in a decent shape by February and the lack of development afterwards isn't a big deal.



    Worst case: You don't finish, no one steps up, the site isn't great, and the community moves to Discord/Reddit/something else. Tons of communities live on those and do perfectly well. It wouldn't be a tragedy if this happens. A bummer, sure, but if the community wants to stay together they'll be able to.



    Regardless, be firm about the February cutoff. They've got nearly 5 months to prepare. You don't have to feel bad about leaving. Don't let anyone bully you into staying. You've been volunteering your time (and potentially money) for the community and they have no right to make you feel bad about that.



    As for the message itself, I would personally avoid going into all of your grievances with the changing landscape of online communities. That's a good way to alienate people right when you're looking for them to come together. Just be nice, talk about the good times, and let it go.



    edit: To give some context, I haven't been in your position, but I have been in communities (MMO guilds mostly) that have gone through what you're describing, and the biggest points to hit are bringing up the "good times" and giving plenty of warning.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    pip install frisbee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    • Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

      – Emiliano S.
      yesterday






    • 1





      You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

      – jmathew
      yesterday
















    22














    22










    22










    what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020




    You say exactly that. Make a post, either on your website or some other site (I've seen similar posts on Twitlonger) that explains what you've said here. That the community has been a wonderful part of your life for almost a decade, but that you just have to move on. It can be short or long, but it has to be unequivocal. Something like:




    Friends,



    Words cannot express how wonderful it has been to be a part of this community. Over the past X years we've grown from Y to Z members. We've been through N expansions/versions/games together. <-insert anecdote about something relevant to the community->



    Unfortunately, times change and all good things must come to an end. Both my work-life and irl personal life are evolving, and I'm finding myself with less and less time to spend with you all.



    As many of you know, I've been working on our community website. I am looking for someone to take up the reins on this project after I leave. Given my new work commitments, after January I will no longer be able to take an active development role, and maintaining and building this site will fall to you, the community.



    I will be reaching out to a few people about taking over and hope to announce something shortly, but in the meantime if you're interested in getting involved, or know someone who is, please feel free to reach out to me.



    All the best,



    Emiliano




    Best case: someone steps forward and takes over.



    Medium case: no one steps up but you get it in a decent shape by February and the lack of development afterwards isn't a big deal.



    Worst case: You don't finish, no one steps up, the site isn't great, and the community moves to Discord/Reddit/something else. Tons of communities live on those and do perfectly well. It wouldn't be a tragedy if this happens. A bummer, sure, but if the community wants to stay together they'll be able to.



    Regardless, be firm about the February cutoff. They've got nearly 5 months to prepare. You don't have to feel bad about leaving. Don't let anyone bully you into staying. You've been volunteering your time (and potentially money) for the community and they have no right to make you feel bad about that.



    As for the message itself, I would personally avoid going into all of your grievances with the changing landscape of online communities. That's a good way to alienate people right when you're looking for them to come together. Just be nice, talk about the good times, and let it go.



    edit: To give some context, I haven't been in your position, but I have been in communities (MMO guilds mostly) that have gone through what you're describing, and the biggest points to hit are bringing up the "good times" and giving plenty of warning.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    pip install frisbee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.










    what's the more gentle way to say that I'm leaving in early 2020




    You say exactly that. Make a post, either on your website or some other site (I've seen similar posts on Twitlonger) that explains what you've said here. That the community has been a wonderful part of your life for almost a decade, but that you just have to move on. It can be short or long, but it has to be unequivocal. Something like:




    Friends,



    Words cannot express how wonderful it has been to be a part of this community. Over the past X years we've grown from Y to Z members. We've been through N expansions/versions/games together. <-insert anecdote about something relevant to the community->



    Unfortunately, times change and all good things must come to an end. Both my work-life and irl personal life are evolving, and I'm finding myself with less and less time to spend with you all.



    As many of you know, I've been working on our community website. I am looking for someone to take up the reins on this project after I leave. Given my new work commitments, after January I will no longer be able to take an active development role, and maintaining and building this site will fall to you, the community.



    I will be reaching out to a few people about taking over and hope to announce something shortly, but in the meantime if you're interested in getting involved, or know someone who is, please feel free to reach out to me.



    All the best,



    Emiliano




    Best case: someone steps forward and takes over.



    Medium case: no one steps up but you get it in a decent shape by February and the lack of development afterwards isn't a big deal.



    Worst case: You don't finish, no one steps up, the site isn't great, and the community moves to Discord/Reddit/something else. Tons of communities live on those and do perfectly well. It wouldn't be a tragedy if this happens. A bummer, sure, but if the community wants to stay together they'll be able to.



    Regardless, be firm about the February cutoff. They've got nearly 5 months to prepare. You don't have to feel bad about leaving. Don't let anyone bully you into staying. You've been volunteering your time (and potentially money) for the community and they have no right to make you feel bad about that.



    As for the message itself, I would personally avoid going into all of your grievances with the changing landscape of online communities. That's a good way to alienate people right when you're looking for them to come together. Just be nice, talk about the good times, and let it go.



    edit: To give some context, I haven't been in your position, but I have been in communities (MMO guilds mostly) that have gone through what you're describing, and the biggest points to hit are bringing up the "good times" and giving plenty of warning.







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor



    pip install frisbee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    edited yesterday





















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    answered yesterday









    pip install frisbeepip install frisbee

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    • Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

      – Emiliano S.
      yesterday






    • 1





      You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

      – jmathew
      yesterday





















    • Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

      – Emiliano S.
      yesterday






    • 1





      You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

      – jmathew
      yesterday



















    Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

    – Emiliano S.
    yesterday





    Thank you! I'll do what you suggested posting a farewell message this evening. Actually I already communicated my choice to community directors months ago but it seems that everything fell on a deaf ear since they keep asking for new shiny features ignoring that my involvement in the community has a clear expiration date (maybe they believed that it was just an impulsive message) so I'll try to communicate my decision to everyone hoping to convince them that my decision is permanent.

    – Emiliano S.
    yesterday




    1




    1





    You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

    – jmathew
    yesterday







    You should also ask either the community or whoever's in charge of the site to prioritize your backlog to just the shiny features they want the most (and can get done in 5 months).

    – jmathew
    yesterday















    6















    I've been involved the same way, but IRL. Our community of players was meeting twice a month for several hours, playing all sunday long. I had created the community from scratch, and did all of the job on the website, as I was (and remained for years) the only one who could work on dev. Then came the time to move on, and leave...



    What I did then was:




    1. honestly explain everything (why I was leaving: time, new professional project...and so on)

    2. tell them very early that I would leave.

    3. provide them with solutions if needed/possible.


    Point #1 : in my case, why I would leave, how sorry I was, lack of time, personal energy bar hitting the very bottom...etc. I first sent a email to our group and posted a message on our forum, telling them that we would discuss this next sunday. In your case, with your words and deadlines: tell the truth, explain, be nice and calm, show empathy, ask for understanding.



    Point #2 : in my case, provide them with a 6-months timeline; in your case: ditto. No problemo.



    Point #3 : no one could step in and replace me 100%. So I offered them another option for the only things that they weren't able to do by themselves (update of database for standings, meetings and a couple of other things that required dev knowledge), in this case, some google sheets that could be modified and that everybody could see online. They did that.



    As a "team leader" for the community, I had more responsabilities that just the website, so we even had time to run elections and have a new board of people taking responsabilities. Honesty and time is just what's needed here, I believe.






    share|improve this answer
































      6















      I've been involved the same way, but IRL. Our community of players was meeting twice a month for several hours, playing all sunday long. I had created the community from scratch, and did all of the job on the website, as I was (and remained for years) the only one who could work on dev. Then came the time to move on, and leave...



      What I did then was:




      1. honestly explain everything (why I was leaving: time, new professional project...and so on)

      2. tell them very early that I would leave.

      3. provide them with solutions if needed/possible.


      Point #1 : in my case, why I would leave, how sorry I was, lack of time, personal energy bar hitting the very bottom...etc. I first sent a email to our group and posted a message on our forum, telling them that we would discuss this next sunday. In your case, with your words and deadlines: tell the truth, explain, be nice and calm, show empathy, ask for understanding.



      Point #2 : in my case, provide them with a 6-months timeline; in your case: ditto. No problemo.



      Point #3 : no one could step in and replace me 100%. So I offered them another option for the only things that they weren't able to do by themselves (update of database for standings, meetings and a couple of other things that required dev knowledge), in this case, some google sheets that could be modified and that everybody could see online. They did that.



      As a "team leader" for the community, I had more responsabilities that just the website, so we even had time to run elections and have a new board of people taking responsabilities. Honesty and time is just what's needed here, I believe.






      share|improve this answer






























        6














        6










        6









        I've been involved the same way, but IRL. Our community of players was meeting twice a month for several hours, playing all sunday long. I had created the community from scratch, and did all of the job on the website, as I was (and remained for years) the only one who could work on dev. Then came the time to move on, and leave...



        What I did then was:




        1. honestly explain everything (why I was leaving: time, new professional project...and so on)

        2. tell them very early that I would leave.

        3. provide them with solutions if needed/possible.


        Point #1 : in my case, why I would leave, how sorry I was, lack of time, personal energy bar hitting the very bottom...etc. I first sent a email to our group and posted a message on our forum, telling them that we would discuss this next sunday. In your case, with your words and deadlines: tell the truth, explain, be nice and calm, show empathy, ask for understanding.



        Point #2 : in my case, provide them with a 6-months timeline; in your case: ditto. No problemo.



        Point #3 : no one could step in and replace me 100%. So I offered them another option for the only things that they weren't able to do by themselves (update of database for standings, meetings and a couple of other things that required dev knowledge), in this case, some google sheets that could be modified and that everybody could see online. They did that.



        As a "team leader" for the community, I had more responsabilities that just the website, so we even had time to run elections and have a new board of people taking responsabilities. Honesty and time is just what's needed here, I believe.






        share|improve this answer















        I've been involved the same way, but IRL. Our community of players was meeting twice a month for several hours, playing all sunday long. I had created the community from scratch, and did all of the job on the website, as I was (and remained for years) the only one who could work on dev. Then came the time to move on, and leave...



        What I did then was:




        1. honestly explain everything (why I was leaving: time, new professional project...and so on)

        2. tell them very early that I would leave.

        3. provide them with solutions if needed/possible.


        Point #1 : in my case, why I would leave, how sorry I was, lack of time, personal energy bar hitting the very bottom...etc. I first sent a email to our group and posted a message on our forum, telling them that we would discuss this next sunday. In your case, with your words and deadlines: tell the truth, explain, be nice and calm, show empathy, ask for understanding.



        Point #2 : in my case, provide them with a 6-months timeline; in your case: ditto. No problemo.



        Point #3 : no one could step in and replace me 100%. So I offered them another option for the only things that they weren't able to do by themselves (update of database for standings, meetings and a couple of other things that required dev knowledge), in this case, some google sheets that could be modified and that everybody could see online. They did that.



        As a "team leader" for the community, I had more responsabilities that just the website, so we even had time to run elections and have a new board of people taking responsabilities. Honesty and time is just what's needed here, I believe.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday

























        answered yesterday









        OldPadawanOldPadawan

        16.8k5 gold badges57 silver badges84 bronze badges




        16.8k5 gold badges57 silver badges84 bronze badges


























            0















            I'd point out the continued scope creep of features in some time-related fashion to make everyone know it's unrealistic (and probably rude) of them to keep dumping more and more features on you w/o concern for your life, schedule, etc.



            Basically.. people often don't appreciate something that costs them nothing. It costs them very little to dream up ideas and dump them on you. Meanwhile, someone has to eventually do the work, and that work takes time. You are the one stuck with the work.



            Unless you speak up about everyone taking advantage of you, you'll run into this situation again and again in your life. IE: you're the person that volunteers to help, everyone just sees you as a free resource, and nobody thinks about your time; they just dump tasks on you. It's because you're not speaking up early on.



            A lot of modders end up with this issue. They take on a project, then suddenly everyone with an idea wants to pork belly the idea onto the mod, or ask the modder to fix some bug that wasn't part of the plan, etc.



            You have to draw a line, and also make it clear how much of your time you're spending working on things.



            B/c to these folks, all they know is they dream up something, and then expect you to do it. They start to get into a "slave labor" mentality... a "when will this be done? well, hurry up!" mentality. It's because they're not the ones working on it, and it's not costing them anything to get it done; you're the one paying with your time and opportunity cost.



            So, you have to explain to these folks how much of your time you're dedicating to things, how much it's eating into your life, what things you're sacrificing to take on their stuff (time is not free.. it's opportunity cost. When you choose to work on their stuff, you are giving up time you could be doing something else with.)



            There will be people that don't understand or don't care, and those are the ones you just have to be firm with... or just ignore new requests from.



            Because.. you're the one with the problem here. So, the goal is to make your problem their problem by limiting the work you can do, limiting the tasks you accept from them, and eventually having a cut-off point and calling it quits.



            What I've noticed with online communities, modding communities, etc.. there's always tons of folks willing to come up with ideas and yap about them.. but when it comes down to doing actual work, many of them do not want to give up their time to do it. So, when someone comes along that's willing to sacrifice their personal time to work on things, they start to mistreat taht person very quickly. Often you'll find modding teams that have like 5 folks... 1 person doing the web-site, 3 "idea" people (one probably joined to do "art assets", but hasn't done squat.. and the other 2 promised to do some work but never have, but wanted to get tied to the project since it's high-profile and "cool"), and 1 person doing all the real work. That 1 person has to draw a line in the sand.



            If folks really want things done, they can learn to do javascript, or go solicit others to do work for them.



            But, when you give folks free labor, it's not costing them anything, so they quickly start to abuse it.



            Just find a cut-off point, explain how much time things are taking you, explain how you cuold be doing other things with that time but instead you chose to work on their stuff.. and how it's gotten abusive and you need to just move along.



            Hopefully it will turn into a learning opportunity for them.



            Chances are it won't.



            But, this is a learning opportunity for you to identify when folks are abusing your good will and when you need to leave.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor



            blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.

















            • 1





              Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

              – OldPadawan
              10 hours ago











            • Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

              – Ælis
              9 hours ago











            • @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

              – marcelm
              4 hours ago


















            0















            I'd point out the continued scope creep of features in some time-related fashion to make everyone know it's unrealistic (and probably rude) of them to keep dumping more and more features on you w/o concern for your life, schedule, etc.



            Basically.. people often don't appreciate something that costs them nothing. It costs them very little to dream up ideas and dump them on you. Meanwhile, someone has to eventually do the work, and that work takes time. You are the one stuck with the work.



            Unless you speak up about everyone taking advantage of you, you'll run into this situation again and again in your life. IE: you're the person that volunteers to help, everyone just sees you as a free resource, and nobody thinks about your time; they just dump tasks on you. It's because you're not speaking up early on.



            A lot of modders end up with this issue. They take on a project, then suddenly everyone with an idea wants to pork belly the idea onto the mod, or ask the modder to fix some bug that wasn't part of the plan, etc.



            You have to draw a line, and also make it clear how much of your time you're spending working on things.



            B/c to these folks, all they know is they dream up something, and then expect you to do it. They start to get into a "slave labor" mentality... a "when will this be done? well, hurry up!" mentality. It's because they're not the ones working on it, and it's not costing them anything to get it done; you're the one paying with your time and opportunity cost.



            So, you have to explain to these folks how much of your time you're dedicating to things, how much it's eating into your life, what things you're sacrificing to take on their stuff (time is not free.. it's opportunity cost. When you choose to work on their stuff, you are giving up time you could be doing something else with.)



            There will be people that don't understand or don't care, and those are the ones you just have to be firm with... or just ignore new requests from.



            Because.. you're the one with the problem here. So, the goal is to make your problem their problem by limiting the work you can do, limiting the tasks you accept from them, and eventually having a cut-off point and calling it quits.



            What I've noticed with online communities, modding communities, etc.. there's always tons of folks willing to come up with ideas and yap about them.. but when it comes down to doing actual work, many of them do not want to give up their time to do it. So, when someone comes along that's willing to sacrifice their personal time to work on things, they start to mistreat taht person very quickly. Often you'll find modding teams that have like 5 folks... 1 person doing the web-site, 3 "idea" people (one probably joined to do "art assets", but hasn't done squat.. and the other 2 promised to do some work but never have, but wanted to get tied to the project since it's high-profile and "cool"), and 1 person doing all the real work. That 1 person has to draw a line in the sand.



            If folks really want things done, they can learn to do javascript, or go solicit others to do work for them.



            But, when you give folks free labor, it's not costing them anything, so they quickly start to abuse it.



            Just find a cut-off point, explain how much time things are taking you, explain how you cuold be doing other things with that time but instead you chose to work on their stuff.. and how it's gotten abusive and you need to just move along.



            Hopefully it will turn into a learning opportunity for them.



            Chances are it won't.



            But, this is a learning opportunity for you to identify when folks are abusing your good will and when you need to leave.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor



            blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.

















            • 1





              Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

              – OldPadawan
              10 hours ago











            • Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

              – Ælis
              9 hours ago











            • @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

              – marcelm
              4 hours ago
















            0














            0










            0









            I'd point out the continued scope creep of features in some time-related fashion to make everyone know it's unrealistic (and probably rude) of them to keep dumping more and more features on you w/o concern for your life, schedule, etc.



            Basically.. people often don't appreciate something that costs them nothing. It costs them very little to dream up ideas and dump them on you. Meanwhile, someone has to eventually do the work, and that work takes time. You are the one stuck with the work.



            Unless you speak up about everyone taking advantage of you, you'll run into this situation again and again in your life. IE: you're the person that volunteers to help, everyone just sees you as a free resource, and nobody thinks about your time; they just dump tasks on you. It's because you're not speaking up early on.



            A lot of modders end up with this issue. They take on a project, then suddenly everyone with an idea wants to pork belly the idea onto the mod, or ask the modder to fix some bug that wasn't part of the plan, etc.



            You have to draw a line, and also make it clear how much of your time you're spending working on things.



            B/c to these folks, all they know is they dream up something, and then expect you to do it. They start to get into a "slave labor" mentality... a "when will this be done? well, hurry up!" mentality. It's because they're not the ones working on it, and it's not costing them anything to get it done; you're the one paying with your time and opportunity cost.



            So, you have to explain to these folks how much of your time you're dedicating to things, how much it's eating into your life, what things you're sacrificing to take on their stuff (time is not free.. it's opportunity cost. When you choose to work on their stuff, you are giving up time you could be doing something else with.)



            There will be people that don't understand or don't care, and those are the ones you just have to be firm with... or just ignore new requests from.



            Because.. you're the one with the problem here. So, the goal is to make your problem their problem by limiting the work you can do, limiting the tasks you accept from them, and eventually having a cut-off point and calling it quits.



            What I've noticed with online communities, modding communities, etc.. there's always tons of folks willing to come up with ideas and yap about them.. but when it comes down to doing actual work, many of them do not want to give up their time to do it. So, when someone comes along that's willing to sacrifice their personal time to work on things, they start to mistreat taht person very quickly. Often you'll find modding teams that have like 5 folks... 1 person doing the web-site, 3 "idea" people (one probably joined to do "art assets", but hasn't done squat.. and the other 2 promised to do some work but never have, but wanted to get tied to the project since it's high-profile and "cool"), and 1 person doing all the real work. That 1 person has to draw a line in the sand.



            If folks really want things done, they can learn to do javascript, or go solicit others to do work for them.



            But, when you give folks free labor, it's not costing them anything, so they quickly start to abuse it.



            Just find a cut-off point, explain how much time things are taking you, explain how you cuold be doing other things with that time but instead you chose to work on their stuff.. and how it's gotten abusive and you need to just move along.



            Hopefully it will turn into a learning opportunity for them.



            Chances are it won't.



            But, this is a learning opportunity for you to identify when folks are abusing your good will and when you need to leave.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor



            blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            I'd point out the continued scope creep of features in some time-related fashion to make everyone know it's unrealistic (and probably rude) of them to keep dumping more and more features on you w/o concern for your life, schedule, etc.



            Basically.. people often don't appreciate something that costs them nothing. It costs them very little to dream up ideas and dump them on you. Meanwhile, someone has to eventually do the work, and that work takes time. You are the one stuck with the work.



            Unless you speak up about everyone taking advantage of you, you'll run into this situation again and again in your life. IE: you're the person that volunteers to help, everyone just sees you as a free resource, and nobody thinks about your time; they just dump tasks on you. It's because you're not speaking up early on.



            A lot of modders end up with this issue. They take on a project, then suddenly everyone with an idea wants to pork belly the idea onto the mod, or ask the modder to fix some bug that wasn't part of the plan, etc.



            You have to draw a line, and also make it clear how much of your time you're spending working on things.



            B/c to these folks, all they know is they dream up something, and then expect you to do it. They start to get into a "slave labor" mentality... a "when will this be done? well, hurry up!" mentality. It's because they're not the ones working on it, and it's not costing them anything to get it done; you're the one paying with your time and opportunity cost.



            So, you have to explain to these folks how much of your time you're dedicating to things, how much it's eating into your life, what things you're sacrificing to take on their stuff (time is not free.. it's opportunity cost. When you choose to work on their stuff, you are giving up time you could be doing something else with.)



            There will be people that don't understand or don't care, and those are the ones you just have to be firm with... or just ignore new requests from.



            Because.. you're the one with the problem here. So, the goal is to make your problem their problem by limiting the work you can do, limiting the tasks you accept from them, and eventually having a cut-off point and calling it quits.



            What I've noticed with online communities, modding communities, etc.. there's always tons of folks willing to come up with ideas and yap about them.. but when it comes down to doing actual work, many of them do not want to give up their time to do it. So, when someone comes along that's willing to sacrifice their personal time to work on things, they start to mistreat taht person very quickly. Often you'll find modding teams that have like 5 folks... 1 person doing the web-site, 3 "idea" people (one probably joined to do "art assets", but hasn't done squat.. and the other 2 promised to do some work but never have, but wanted to get tied to the project since it's high-profile and "cool"), and 1 person doing all the real work. That 1 person has to draw a line in the sand.



            If folks really want things done, they can learn to do javascript, or go solicit others to do work for them.



            But, when you give folks free labor, it's not costing them anything, so they quickly start to abuse it.



            Just find a cut-off point, explain how much time things are taking you, explain how you cuold be doing other things with that time but instead you chose to work on their stuff.. and how it's gotten abusive and you need to just move along.



            Hopefully it will turn into a learning opportunity for them.



            Chances are it won't.



            But, this is a learning opportunity for you to identify when folks are abusing your good will and when you need to leave.







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            • 1





              Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

              – OldPadawan
              10 hours ago











            • Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

              – Ælis
              9 hours ago











            • @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

              – marcelm
              4 hours ago
















            • 1





              Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

              – OldPadawan
              10 hours ago











            • Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

              – Ælis
              9 hours ago











            • @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

              – marcelm
              4 hours ago










            1




            1





            Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

            – OldPadawan
            10 hours ago





            Hi there! Welcome to IPS. I'm sorry if I missed something here, but I can't see nothing more than a rant here :/ It doesn't provide OP with an answer to their problem: communicating about gently ending their free work. Do you mind editing your answer to make that more clear please?

            – OldPadawan
            10 hours ago













            Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

            – Ælis
            9 hours ago





            Hey there! We require answers here to be backed up by personal experience or external sources. So, could you edit to tell us about a similar situation you were in the past? Who was involved, what did you say and how did the other person react?

            – Ælis
            9 hours ago













            @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

            – marcelm
            4 hours ago







            @OldPadawan Although this isn't a great answer (technically not even an answer to the exact question) and it does read a bit like a rant, it might help the OP to get some perspective on his situation. As such, I feel this answer does actually add something. @‍blahblah In this vein, would you consider editing your answer so that it reads less as a rant, and focus more on providing perspective?

            – marcelm
            4 hours ago




















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