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Is there any benefit to riders on the front of a paceline?

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2

You can save a lot on air resistance by drafting a rider closely, i.e. riding close to their rear wheel.

What about the rider in front? Is there a benefit, a loss, or is there no difference?

aerodynamics

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

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asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

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• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, I've heard/read that the front biker has some benefit too. Can't explain it properly, so I'll let others do that ;-)
  
  – Terry Seidler
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Sorry found it is a duplicate while looking if tag match question here is very similar one bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/10069/…
  
  – Tom
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Strange is 2nd can fill 1st's gap sucking him back, but in practice you can see hard pedalling front and you may even not pedal at all sometimes having a bit better bike, so you feel you are pulled front by his gap ;-)
  
  – Tom
  7 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Possible duplicate of Does drafting cause resistance to the lead rider?
  
  – R. Chung
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

2

You can save a lot on air resistance by drafting a rider closely, i.e. riding close to their rear wheel.

What about the rider in front? Is there a benefit, a loss, or is there no difference?

aerodynamics

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, I've heard/read that the front biker has some benefit too. Can't explain it properly, so I'll let others do that ;-)
  
  – Terry Seidler
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Sorry found it is a duplicate while looking if tag match question here is very similar one bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/10069/…
  
  – Tom
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Strange is 2nd can fill 1st's gap sucking him back, but in practice you can see hard pedalling front and you may even not pedal at all sometimes having a bit better bike, so you feel you are pulled front by his gap ;-)
  
  – Tom
  7 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Possible duplicate of Does drafting cause resistance to the lead rider?
  
  – R. Chung
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

You can save a lot on air resistance by drafting a rider closely, i.e. riding close to their rear wheel.

What about the rider in front? Is there a benefit, a loss, or is there no difference?

aerodynamics

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

share|improve this question

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

edited 7 hours ago

Weiwen Ng

71533 silver badges99 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

asked 8 hours ago

TomTom

1321010 bronze badges

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

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4

Yes, it's small but real. Aerodynamic drag in cycling pelotons: New insights by CFD simulation and wind tunnel testing Journal of Wind Engineering and Industrial Aerodynamics
Volume 179, August 2018 is an interesting paper on the subject, with both theory and experiment. The introduction is a nice summary of previous work, including simpler cases, but many of those papers are inacessible without a university login, unlike the one I've linked.

Figure 9 and Section 3.8 are most of interest, especially Fig. 9b which indicates that a reduction in drag of 4% on the lead rider is possible. Figure 22a shows a simulation leading to an even greater reduction in drag for the front rider.

You can see from the figures in the paper that behind a single rider there's a low-pressure region. You can regard this as sucking the rider backwards. By partially filling this low pressure region with another rider, its effect is reduced.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In a seminar presentation 3 years ago Bert Blocken said that on a time trial just pushing a rider by a following car could make several seconds. But I didn't the latest paper.
  
  – Vladimir F
  8 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's certainly possible, but I wouldn't like to try the experiment. The car would have to be much too close for the driver to react to any problems
  
  – Chris H
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, he was speaking about a normal TV or support car if allowed too close (say 10 meters). Edit: It has been published. urbanphysics.net/2015_JWEIA__BB_YT__Car_Cyclist.pdf
  
  – Vladimir F
  7 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's still too close for the driver to stop or even slow down much if the cyclist has a problem, given the speeds involved. The paper discusses speeds of 15m/s and separations of 3, 5 and 10m, so the bike and car are 0.2--0.67s apart. That's less than the reaction time of most drivers, even taking into account that the driver of a TV car should be concentrating and trained. And official race cars /motorbikes have hit and killed pro cyclists in recent years.
  
  – Chris H
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

1

I see you're thinking of aerodynamics, but there are other advantages too.

Race-craft, or more specifically Control. If you have a team in the bunch, you can work together to control the whole group. You're in the optimal position to get on the wheel of any break-away attempt and haul it back in. Likewise, you can be in position to "block" any attempt to follow a breakaway rider, if that fits your overall tactics for this race

Even individual riders can control a bunch or paceline from the front, by edging up the average speed and attempt to stress or tire-out other riders.

View as front rider you have a lot more awareness of what's coming up. There's no other bike/rider in front of you to block your view of the road, so you can prepare for changes. It would be very nasty tactics to just skim the edge of a pothole or gravel patch and hope following riders plough into it potentially wiping out competition. Related - if you're further back there's more chance of getting caught in or behind an accident, which adds delay and allows breakaways a chance to gain ground.

Motivation is increased - I know my segment times are improved when I'm being chased/followed by other riders, or by vehicles.

Advertising minor but by being visible, any sponsor logos are also more visible. Any team gets a credibility boost when they control the race from the front.

share|improve this answer

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

add a comment
 | 

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4

Yes, it's small but real. Aerodynamic drag in cycling pelotons: New insights by CFD simulation and wind tunnel testing Journal of Wind Engineering and Industrial Aerodynamics
Volume 179, August 2018 is an interesting paper on the subject, with both theory and experiment. The introduction is a nice summary of previous work, including simpler cases, but many of those papers are inacessible without a university login, unlike the one I've linked.

Figure 9 and Section 3.8 are most of interest, especially Fig. 9b which indicates that a reduction in drag of 4% on the lead rider is possible. Figure 22a shows a simulation leading to an even greater reduction in drag for the front rider.

You can see from the figures in the paper that behind a single rider there's a low-pressure region. You can regard this as sucking the rider backwards. By partially filling this low pressure region with another rider, its effect is reduced.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In a seminar presentation 3 years ago Bert Blocken said that on a time trial just pushing a rider by a following car could make several seconds. But I didn't the latest paper.
  
  – Vladimir F
  8 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's certainly possible, but I wouldn't like to try the experiment. The car would have to be much too close for the driver to react to any problems
  
  – Chris H
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, he was speaking about a normal TV or support car if allowed too close (say 10 meters). Edit: It has been published. urbanphysics.net/2015_JWEIA__BB_YT__Car_Cyclist.pdf
  
  – Vladimir F
  7 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's still too close for the driver to stop or even slow down much if the cyclist has a problem, given the speeds involved. The paper discusses speeds of 15m/s and separations of 3, 5 and 10m, so the bike and car are 0.2--0.67s apart. That's less than the reaction time of most drivers, even taking into account that the driver of a TV car should be concentrating and trained. And official race cars /motorbikes have hit and killed pro cyclists in recent years.
  
  – Chris H
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

4

Yes, it's small but real. Aerodynamic drag in cycling pelotons: New insights by CFD simulation and wind tunnel testing Journal of Wind Engineering and Industrial Aerodynamics
Volume 179, August 2018 is an interesting paper on the subject, with both theory and experiment. The introduction is a nice summary of previous work, including simpler cases, but many of those papers are inacessible without a university login, unlike the one I've linked.

Figure 9 and Section 3.8 are most of interest, especially Fig. 9b which indicates that a reduction in drag of 4% on the lead rider is possible. Figure 22a shows a simulation leading to an even greater reduction in drag for the front rider.

You can see from the figures in the paper that behind a single rider there's a low-pressure region. You can regard this as sucking the rider backwards. By partially filling this low pressure region with another rider, its effect is reduced.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In a seminar presentation 3 years ago Bert Blocken said that on a time trial just pushing a rider by a following car could make several seconds. But I didn't the latest paper.
  
  – Vladimir F
  8 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's certainly possible, but I wouldn't like to try the experiment. The car would have to be much too close for the driver to react to any problems
  
  – Chris H
  8 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  No, he was speaking about a normal TV or support car if allowed too close (say 10 meters). Edit: It has been published. urbanphysics.net/2015_JWEIA__BB_YT__Car_Cyclist.pdf
  
  – Vladimir F
  7 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @VladimirF that's still too close for the driver to stop or even slow down much if the cyclist has a problem, given the speeds involved. The paper discusses speeds of 15m/s and separations of 3, 5 and 10m, so the bike and car are 0.2--0.67s apart. That's less than the reaction time of most drivers, even taking into account that the driver of a TV car should be concentrating and trained. And official race cars /motorbikes have hit and killed pro cyclists in recent years.
  
  – Chris H
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment
 | 

Yes, it's small but real. Aerodynamic drag in cycling pelotons: New insights by CFD simulation and wind tunnel testing Journal of Wind Engineering and Industrial Aerodynamics
Volume 179, August 2018 is an interesting paper on the subject, with both theory and experiment. The introduction is a nice summary of previous work, including simpler cases, but many of those papers are inacessible without a university login, unlike the one I've linked.

Figure 9 and Section 3.8 are most of interest, especially Fig. 9b which indicates that a reduction in drag of 4% on the lead rider is possible. Figure 22a shows a simulation leading to an even greater reduction in drag for the front rider.

You can see from the figures in the paper that behind a single rider there's a low-pressure region. You can regard this as sucking the rider backwards. By partially filling this low pressure region with another rider, its effect is reduced.

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

edited 8 hours ago

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

answered 8 hours ago

Chris HChris H

27.4k11 gold badge4242 silver badges125125 bronze badges

1

I see you're thinking of aerodynamics, but there are other advantages too.

Race-craft, or more specifically Control. If you have a team in the bunch, you can work together to control the whole group. You're in the optimal position to get on the wheel of any break-away attempt and haul it back in. Likewise, you can be in position to "block" any attempt to follow a breakaway rider, if that fits your overall tactics for this race

Even individual riders can control a bunch or paceline from the front, by edging up the average speed and attempt to stress or tire-out other riders.

View as front rider you have a lot more awareness of what's coming up. There's no other bike/rider in front of you to block your view of the road, so you can prepare for changes. It would be very nasty tactics to just skim the edge of a pothole or gravel patch and hope following riders plough into it potentially wiping out competition. Related - if you're further back there's more chance of getting caught in or behind an accident, which adds delay and allows breakaways a chance to gain ground.

Motivation is increased - I know my segment times are improved when I'm being chased/followed by other riders, or by vehicles.

Advertising minor but by being visible, any sponsor logos are also more visible. Any team gets a credibility boost when they control the race from the front.

share|improve this answer

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

add a comment
 | 

1

I see you're thinking of aerodynamics, but there are other advantages too.

Race-craft, or more specifically Control. If you have a team in the bunch, you can work together to control the whole group. You're in the optimal position to get on the wheel of any break-away attempt and haul it back in. Likewise, you can be in position to "block" any attempt to follow a breakaway rider, if that fits your overall tactics for this race

Even individual riders can control a bunch or paceline from the front, by edging up the average speed and attempt to stress or tire-out other riders.

View as front rider you have a lot more awareness of what's coming up. There's no other bike/rider in front of you to block your view of the road, so you can prepare for changes. It would be very nasty tactics to just skim the edge of a pothole or gravel patch and hope following riders plough into it potentially wiping out competition. Related - if you're further back there's more chance of getting caught in or behind an accident, which adds delay and allows breakaways a chance to gain ground.

Motivation is increased - I know my segment times are improved when I'm being chased/followed by other riders, or by vehicles.

Advertising minor but by being visible, any sponsor logos are also more visible. Any team gets a credibility boost when they control the race from the front.

share|improve this answer

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

add a comment
 | 

I see you're thinking of aerodynamics, but there are other advantages too.

Race-craft, or more specifically Control. If you have a team in the bunch, you can work together to control the whole group. You're in the optimal position to get on the wheel of any break-away attempt and haul it back in. Likewise, you can be in position to "block" any attempt to follow a breakaway rider, if that fits your overall tactics for this race

Even individual riders can control a bunch or paceline from the front, by edging up the average speed and attempt to stress or tire-out other riders.

View as front rider you have a lot more awareness of what's coming up. There's no other bike/rider in front of you to block your view of the road, so you can prepare for changes. It would be very nasty tactics to just skim the edge of a pothole or gravel patch and hope following riders plough into it potentially wiping out competition. Related - if you're further back there's more chance of getting caught in or behind an accident, which adds delay and allows breakaways a chance to gain ground.

Motivation is increased - I know my segment times are improved when I'm being chased/followed by other riders, or by vehicles.

Advertising minor but by being visible, any sponsor logos are also more visible. Any team gets a credibility boost when they control the race from the front.

share|improve this answer

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

share|improve this answer

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges

answered 4 hours ago

Criggie♦Criggie

49k55 gold badges8383 silver badges167167 bronze badges