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How do free-speech protections in the United States apply in public to corporate misrepresentations?

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How do free-speech protections in the United States apply in public to corporate misrepresentations?


Why does this mention the U.S.?Stealing or obtaining ownership by fraud?Emergency vehicle laws in the United StatesWhat is the legality of implementing an unrevealed killswitch in software?Legality of absolving martial arts class of responsibility if injury or death occurs?Can officials enjoy immunity for any crime by asserting they acted in official capacity?Is a company liable if an employee intentionally ignores company procedures?Can an apartment release my package without approval, warning, or notification?Am I legally responsible for users misusing my service for cyberbullying?Can previous homeowner file a claim for hidden damage on their old property?













2















Last night, I was driving behind a truck that had a very official-looking sign like this:



enter image description here



Some cursory Googling brought me to this page from an attorney (who is coincidentally in my home state) who claims:




The simple fact is that we are all responsible for the damage we intentionally or negligently cause to others. If you (1) haul rocks, (2) fail to properly secure those rocks, and (3) one of those rocks breaks my windshield, (4) you are responsible for my broken windshield! Likewise, If I wear a t-shirt that says “Not Responsible For Punching You In The Face” and I walk up and punch you in the face, I am responsible for your broken nose.




With respect to this information, what is the legality of these signs?



They appear to be purchased and installed by the company that owns these trucks, but do restrictions exist preventing corporations from obfuscating their liability in public with false claims that are official in appearance?



It seems like some kind of consumer protection might relate to the insurace/liability aspect; from what I understand, the three elements of fraud are satisfied here:




  • intentional deceit, since the company almost certainly knows that this is not true;

  • benefit to the deceiver, since the company may avoid paying reasonable damages by misrepresenting their liability;

  • actual harm caused, since people with windshields damaged by the company won't follow through with reasonable damage claims when they've been misled by the sign.


As an aside, these signs are far too small to be legible from 200 feet away. If they were legally-binding and drivers within 200 feet were at fault for any damage incurred to their vehicles, would there be a valid reasonableness argument against them (the signs) relating to their 'readability' at the prescribed distance?










share|improve this question



























    2















    Last night, I was driving behind a truck that had a very official-looking sign like this:



    enter image description here



    Some cursory Googling brought me to this page from an attorney (who is coincidentally in my home state) who claims:




    The simple fact is that we are all responsible for the damage we intentionally or negligently cause to others. If you (1) haul rocks, (2) fail to properly secure those rocks, and (3) one of those rocks breaks my windshield, (4) you are responsible for my broken windshield! Likewise, If I wear a t-shirt that says “Not Responsible For Punching You In The Face” and I walk up and punch you in the face, I am responsible for your broken nose.




    With respect to this information, what is the legality of these signs?



    They appear to be purchased and installed by the company that owns these trucks, but do restrictions exist preventing corporations from obfuscating their liability in public with false claims that are official in appearance?



    It seems like some kind of consumer protection might relate to the insurace/liability aspect; from what I understand, the three elements of fraud are satisfied here:




    • intentional deceit, since the company almost certainly knows that this is not true;

    • benefit to the deceiver, since the company may avoid paying reasonable damages by misrepresenting their liability;

    • actual harm caused, since people with windshields damaged by the company won't follow through with reasonable damage claims when they've been misled by the sign.


    As an aside, these signs are far too small to be legible from 200 feet away. If they were legally-binding and drivers within 200 feet were at fault for any damage incurred to their vehicles, would there be a valid reasonableness argument against them (the signs) relating to their 'readability' at the prescribed distance?










    share|improve this question

























      2












      2








      2








      Last night, I was driving behind a truck that had a very official-looking sign like this:



      enter image description here



      Some cursory Googling brought me to this page from an attorney (who is coincidentally in my home state) who claims:




      The simple fact is that we are all responsible for the damage we intentionally or negligently cause to others. If you (1) haul rocks, (2) fail to properly secure those rocks, and (3) one of those rocks breaks my windshield, (4) you are responsible for my broken windshield! Likewise, If I wear a t-shirt that says “Not Responsible For Punching You In The Face” and I walk up and punch you in the face, I am responsible for your broken nose.




      With respect to this information, what is the legality of these signs?



      They appear to be purchased and installed by the company that owns these trucks, but do restrictions exist preventing corporations from obfuscating their liability in public with false claims that are official in appearance?



      It seems like some kind of consumer protection might relate to the insurace/liability aspect; from what I understand, the three elements of fraud are satisfied here:




      • intentional deceit, since the company almost certainly knows that this is not true;

      • benefit to the deceiver, since the company may avoid paying reasonable damages by misrepresenting their liability;

      • actual harm caused, since people with windshields damaged by the company won't follow through with reasonable damage claims when they've been misled by the sign.


      As an aside, these signs are far too small to be legible from 200 feet away. If they were legally-binding and drivers within 200 feet were at fault for any damage incurred to their vehicles, would there be a valid reasonableness argument against them (the signs) relating to their 'readability' at the prescribed distance?










      share|improve this question














      Last night, I was driving behind a truck that had a very official-looking sign like this:



      enter image description here



      Some cursory Googling brought me to this page from an attorney (who is coincidentally in my home state) who claims:




      The simple fact is that we are all responsible for the damage we intentionally or negligently cause to others. If you (1) haul rocks, (2) fail to properly secure those rocks, and (3) one of those rocks breaks my windshield, (4) you are responsible for my broken windshield! Likewise, If I wear a t-shirt that says “Not Responsible For Punching You In The Face” and I walk up and punch you in the face, I am responsible for your broken nose.




      With respect to this information, what is the legality of these signs?



      They appear to be purchased and installed by the company that owns these trucks, but do restrictions exist preventing corporations from obfuscating their liability in public with false claims that are official in appearance?



      It seems like some kind of consumer protection might relate to the insurace/liability aspect; from what I understand, the three elements of fraud are satisfied here:




      • intentional deceit, since the company almost certainly knows that this is not true;

      • benefit to the deceiver, since the company may avoid paying reasonable damages by misrepresenting their liability;

      • actual harm caused, since people with windshields damaged by the company won't follow through with reasonable damage claims when they've been misled by the sign.


      As an aside, these signs are far too small to be legible from 200 feet away. If they were legally-binding and drivers within 200 feet were at fault for any damage incurred to their vehicles, would there be a valid reasonableness argument against them (the signs) relating to their 'readability' at the prescribed distance?







      united-states liability fraud traffic






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 9 hours ago









      Bruce KirkpatrickBruce Kirkpatrick

      1665




      1665






















          2 Answers
          2






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          6














          It is legal to be wrong, it is legal to say false things in public (leaving out defamation), and it is legal to buy and manufacture signs that say false things. Moreover, the sign does not make a false statement, in that legal liability is distinct from moral responsibility. In fact, the sign helps to decrease their legal liability. Via this sign, you have been put on notice that the truck may spray a bit of gravel, so by following too closely, you a negligently contributing to the damage. This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto".



          There is nothing "official in appearance" about this sign (a legal citation of a statute might have such an appearance).






          share|improve this answer
























          • Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

            – Acccumulation
            4 hours ago



















          2














          As a general rule in the United States, in the case of an accidents between a leading vehicle and a following vehicle, the leading vehicle is usually not responsible for the accident as the following vehicle is the one with the duty to avoid colliding with the second car. Considering that the most likely speed to encounter a truck with sufficient speed to cause damage to the following car is an Interstate or other Limited Access Road, and speeds here run at typically 60 miles per hour (1 mile per minute) a 200 foot gap is a distance measured in seconds.



          When driving at a full speed on an interstate, it is recommended (but not required) that you keep at least 243 feet between you and the car (assuming both are sedan style or other cars that are traditionally non-work role) ahead of you at highway speed and in optimal conditions, so 200 feet is generous for the truck. It's probably got more to do with vision of a person as ones' vision is measured in 20/X (At a distance of 20 feet, you can read as if it was X distance away.). Typically a person with 20/200 vision is unable to qualify for a license (legally blind) so it's reasonable to assume the sign is some kind of visible to drivers who stray into the range of vision.



          As another user noted, this isn't a violation of the First Amendment as it is perfectly legal to lie outside of court, and this is not commercial speech (if they were advertising gravel that doesn't break windows, and it does, that's a violation of commercial speech). Essentially the sign is, in polite terms, saying "We have loose gravel. If you don't want to get your windshield cracked, back the hell up... if you don't want to back up, here's your warning, don't bill us for your idiocy. Sue me!"



          Yes, you can still take them to court for claiming the fraudulent aspect and they need to pay, but in all likely hood, the sign means you were warned, you should probably not have been that close anyway as being that close to a truck on a highway is tailgating and can be much more unsafe than a pebble breaking your windshield, and you decided to roll the dice on rule breaking and lost.



          Of course, "We are not responsible for damages" is not a lie either. It is their legal claim. If you call them up demanding the pay, that's the answer you will get. If you take them to court to pay, that's how they will plea (Not Guilty) and argue, and as the defendant, they are not legally responsible until the Trier of Fact (The Jury or the Judge) decide otherwise (We find them guilty) because innocent until proven guilty means they aren't responsible unless and until the court says otherwise.






          share|improve this answer
























          • “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago











          • @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago












          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          2 Answers
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          active

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          6














          It is legal to be wrong, it is legal to say false things in public (leaving out defamation), and it is legal to buy and manufacture signs that say false things. Moreover, the sign does not make a false statement, in that legal liability is distinct from moral responsibility. In fact, the sign helps to decrease their legal liability. Via this sign, you have been put on notice that the truck may spray a bit of gravel, so by following too closely, you a negligently contributing to the damage. This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto".



          There is nothing "official in appearance" about this sign (a legal citation of a statute might have such an appearance).






          share|improve this answer
























          • Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

            – Acccumulation
            4 hours ago
















          6














          It is legal to be wrong, it is legal to say false things in public (leaving out defamation), and it is legal to buy and manufacture signs that say false things. Moreover, the sign does not make a false statement, in that legal liability is distinct from moral responsibility. In fact, the sign helps to decrease their legal liability. Via this sign, you have been put on notice that the truck may spray a bit of gravel, so by following too closely, you a negligently contributing to the damage. This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto".



          There is nothing "official in appearance" about this sign (a legal citation of a statute might have such an appearance).






          share|improve this answer
























          • Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

            – Acccumulation
            4 hours ago














          6












          6








          6







          It is legal to be wrong, it is legal to say false things in public (leaving out defamation), and it is legal to buy and manufacture signs that say false things. Moreover, the sign does not make a false statement, in that legal liability is distinct from moral responsibility. In fact, the sign helps to decrease their legal liability. Via this sign, you have been put on notice that the truck may spray a bit of gravel, so by following too closely, you a negligently contributing to the damage. This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto".



          There is nothing "official in appearance" about this sign (a legal citation of a statute might have such an appearance).






          share|improve this answer













          It is legal to be wrong, it is legal to say false things in public (leaving out defamation), and it is legal to buy and manufacture signs that say false things. Moreover, the sign does not make a false statement, in that legal liability is distinct from moral responsibility. In fact, the sign helps to decrease their legal liability. Via this sign, you have been put on notice that the truck may spray a bit of gravel, so by following too closely, you a negligently contributing to the damage. This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto".



          There is nothing "official in appearance" about this sign (a legal citation of a statute might have such an appearance).







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          user6726user6726

          64.4k461118




          64.4k461118













          • Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

            – Acccumulation
            4 hours ago



















          • Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            8 hours ago






          • 1





            If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

            – Acccumulation
            4 hours ago

















          Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          8 hours ago





          Excellent point regarding moral responsibility versus legal liability as implied by the sign. If the sign were legally binding, would you have a case against the company if the sign wasn't readable within 200 feet and you incurred damage at <200 feet (but still at an illegible distance)? I'm trying to wrap my head around "reasonableness" as a hypothetical here.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          8 hours ago




          1




          1





          If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

          – Putvi
          7 hours ago





          If you incur damage, you incur damage. I know that sounds cold, but the truck is technically responsible for things flying out of it.

          – Putvi
          7 hours ago




          1




          1





          "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

          – Acccumulation
          4 hours ago





          "This is what also underlies those disclaimer signs "not responsible for theft from your auto"." That's different, as those tend to be purporting to modify an implicit contract (you give us money, we let you park in our parking lot, also we're not responsible for theft; waiving liability is a consideration given in exchange for parking in the parking lot). There is no contract, and the truck is not giving consideration.

          – Acccumulation
          4 hours ago











          2














          As a general rule in the United States, in the case of an accidents between a leading vehicle and a following vehicle, the leading vehicle is usually not responsible for the accident as the following vehicle is the one with the duty to avoid colliding with the second car. Considering that the most likely speed to encounter a truck with sufficient speed to cause damage to the following car is an Interstate or other Limited Access Road, and speeds here run at typically 60 miles per hour (1 mile per minute) a 200 foot gap is a distance measured in seconds.



          When driving at a full speed on an interstate, it is recommended (but not required) that you keep at least 243 feet between you and the car (assuming both are sedan style or other cars that are traditionally non-work role) ahead of you at highway speed and in optimal conditions, so 200 feet is generous for the truck. It's probably got more to do with vision of a person as ones' vision is measured in 20/X (At a distance of 20 feet, you can read as if it was X distance away.). Typically a person with 20/200 vision is unable to qualify for a license (legally blind) so it's reasonable to assume the sign is some kind of visible to drivers who stray into the range of vision.



          As another user noted, this isn't a violation of the First Amendment as it is perfectly legal to lie outside of court, and this is not commercial speech (if they were advertising gravel that doesn't break windows, and it does, that's a violation of commercial speech). Essentially the sign is, in polite terms, saying "We have loose gravel. If you don't want to get your windshield cracked, back the hell up... if you don't want to back up, here's your warning, don't bill us for your idiocy. Sue me!"



          Yes, you can still take them to court for claiming the fraudulent aspect and they need to pay, but in all likely hood, the sign means you were warned, you should probably not have been that close anyway as being that close to a truck on a highway is tailgating and can be much more unsafe than a pebble breaking your windshield, and you decided to roll the dice on rule breaking and lost.



          Of course, "We are not responsible for damages" is not a lie either. It is their legal claim. If you call them up demanding the pay, that's the answer you will get. If you take them to court to pay, that's how they will plea (Not Guilty) and argue, and as the defendant, they are not legally responsible until the Trier of Fact (The Jury or the Judge) decide otherwise (We find them guilty) because innocent until proven guilty means they aren't responsible unless and until the court says otherwise.






          share|improve this answer
























          • “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago











          • @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago
















          2














          As a general rule in the United States, in the case of an accidents between a leading vehicle and a following vehicle, the leading vehicle is usually not responsible for the accident as the following vehicle is the one with the duty to avoid colliding with the second car. Considering that the most likely speed to encounter a truck with sufficient speed to cause damage to the following car is an Interstate or other Limited Access Road, and speeds here run at typically 60 miles per hour (1 mile per minute) a 200 foot gap is a distance measured in seconds.



          When driving at a full speed on an interstate, it is recommended (but not required) that you keep at least 243 feet between you and the car (assuming both are sedan style or other cars that are traditionally non-work role) ahead of you at highway speed and in optimal conditions, so 200 feet is generous for the truck. It's probably got more to do with vision of a person as ones' vision is measured in 20/X (At a distance of 20 feet, you can read as if it was X distance away.). Typically a person with 20/200 vision is unable to qualify for a license (legally blind) so it's reasonable to assume the sign is some kind of visible to drivers who stray into the range of vision.



          As another user noted, this isn't a violation of the First Amendment as it is perfectly legal to lie outside of court, and this is not commercial speech (if they were advertising gravel that doesn't break windows, and it does, that's a violation of commercial speech). Essentially the sign is, in polite terms, saying "We have loose gravel. If you don't want to get your windshield cracked, back the hell up... if you don't want to back up, here's your warning, don't bill us for your idiocy. Sue me!"



          Yes, you can still take them to court for claiming the fraudulent aspect and they need to pay, but in all likely hood, the sign means you were warned, you should probably not have been that close anyway as being that close to a truck on a highway is tailgating and can be much more unsafe than a pebble breaking your windshield, and you decided to roll the dice on rule breaking and lost.



          Of course, "We are not responsible for damages" is not a lie either. It is their legal claim. If you call them up demanding the pay, that's the answer you will get. If you take them to court to pay, that's how they will plea (Not Guilty) and argue, and as the defendant, they are not legally responsible until the Trier of Fact (The Jury or the Judge) decide otherwise (We find them guilty) because innocent until proven guilty means they aren't responsible unless and until the court says otherwise.






          share|improve this answer
























          • “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago











          • @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago














          2












          2








          2







          As a general rule in the United States, in the case of an accidents between a leading vehicle and a following vehicle, the leading vehicle is usually not responsible for the accident as the following vehicle is the one with the duty to avoid colliding with the second car. Considering that the most likely speed to encounter a truck with sufficient speed to cause damage to the following car is an Interstate or other Limited Access Road, and speeds here run at typically 60 miles per hour (1 mile per minute) a 200 foot gap is a distance measured in seconds.



          When driving at a full speed on an interstate, it is recommended (but not required) that you keep at least 243 feet between you and the car (assuming both are sedan style or other cars that are traditionally non-work role) ahead of you at highway speed and in optimal conditions, so 200 feet is generous for the truck. It's probably got more to do with vision of a person as ones' vision is measured in 20/X (At a distance of 20 feet, you can read as if it was X distance away.). Typically a person with 20/200 vision is unable to qualify for a license (legally blind) so it's reasonable to assume the sign is some kind of visible to drivers who stray into the range of vision.



          As another user noted, this isn't a violation of the First Amendment as it is perfectly legal to lie outside of court, and this is not commercial speech (if they were advertising gravel that doesn't break windows, and it does, that's a violation of commercial speech). Essentially the sign is, in polite terms, saying "We have loose gravel. If you don't want to get your windshield cracked, back the hell up... if you don't want to back up, here's your warning, don't bill us for your idiocy. Sue me!"



          Yes, you can still take them to court for claiming the fraudulent aspect and they need to pay, but in all likely hood, the sign means you were warned, you should probably not have been that close anyway as being that close to a truck on a highway is tailgating and can be much more unsafe than a pebble breaking your windshield, and you decided to roll the dice on rule breaking and lost.



          Of course, "We are not responsible for damages" is not a lie either. It is their legal claim. If you call them up demanding the pay, that's the answer you will get. If you take them to court to pay, that's how they will plea (Not Guilty) and argue, and as the defendant, they are not legally responsible until the Trier of Fact (The Jury or the Judge) decide otherwise (We find them guilty) because innocent until proven guilty means they aren't responsible unless and until the court says otherwise.






          share|improve this answer













          As a general rule in the United States, in the case of an accidents between a leading vehicle and a following vehicle, the leading vehicle is usually not responsible for the accident as the following vehicle is the one with the duty to avoid colliding with the second car. Considering that the most likely speed to encounter a truck with sufficient speed to cause damage to the following car is an Interstate or other Limited Access Road, and speeds here run at typically 60 miles per hour (1 mile per minute) a 200 foot gap is a distance measured in seconds.



          When driving at a full speed on an interstate, it is recommended (but not required) that you keep at least 243 feet between you and the car (assuming both are sedan style or other cars that are traditionally non-work role) ahead of you at highway speed and in optimal conditions, so 200 feet is generous for the truck. It's probably got more to do with vision of a person as ones' vision is measured in 20/X (At a distance of 20 feet, you can read as if it was X distance away.). Typically a person with 20/200 vision is unable to qualify for a license (legally blind) so it's reasonable to assume the sign is some kind of visible to drivers who stray into the range of vision.



          As another user noted, this isn't a violation of the First Amendment as it is perfectly legal to lie outside of court, and this is not commercial speech (if they were advertising gravel that doesn't break windows, and it does, that's a violation of commercial speech). Essentially the sign is, in polite terms, saying "We have loose gravel. If you don't want to get your windshield cracked, back the hell up... if you don't want to back up, here's your warning, don't bill us for your idiocy. Sue me!"



          Yes, you can still take them to court for claiming the fraudulent aspect and they need to pay, but in all likely hood, the sign means you were warned, you should probably not have been that close anyway as being that close to a truck on a highway is tailgating and can be much more unsafe than a pebble breaking your windshield, and you decided to roll the dice on rule breaking and lost.



          Of course, "We are not responsible for damages" is not a lie either. It is their legal claim. If you call them up demanding the pay, that's the answer you will get. If you take them to court to pay, that's how they will plea (Not Guilty) and argue, and as the defendant, they are not legally responsible until the Trier of Fact (The Jury or the Judge) decide otherwise (We find them guilty) because innocent until proven guilty means they aren't responsible unless and until the court says otherwise.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 7 hours ago









          hszmvhszmv

          3,972213




          3,972213













          • “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago











          • @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago



















          • “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago











          • @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

            – hszmv
            7 hours ago











          • The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

            – Putvi
            7 hours ago






          • 2





            @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

            – Bruce Kirkpatrick
            7 hours ago

















          “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          7 hours ago





          “We are not responsible for damages” being their legal claim is an excellent point that I had not considered. I suppose every “not guilty” claim where the claimant is at fault is a lie in some sense, but perhaps not to the claimant if it is their honesty held position.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          7 hours ago













          @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

          – hszmv
          7 hours ago





          @BruceKirkpatrick: Not necessarily true as the case, resolved against the company does not mean that they won't mount the same defense on a separate incident. Additionally, while they were found liable, it might not be totally liable. This would be a civil case, which allows for wiggle room based on circumstances. And with that said, the 200 ft range might be padded so that by the time the driver can read the sign they're not yet in danger unless the get closer than that. It's not uncommon+

          – hszmv
          7 hours ago













          +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

          – hszmv
          7 hours ago





          +Most restricted property in the United States (including restricted by the government) put the sign and fence a few feet back from the propety line so that by the time you're at the fence, you can be arrested for trespassing as the law defines the legal property line, not the fence line, as trespassing. For example, when crossing a land border into the united states, you are legally in the United States, even if you have yet to clear the check point, which is 50 away from the border. This gives the people called out some wiggle room in determining your intention to trespass.

          – hszmv
          7 hours ago













          The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

          – Putvi
          7 hours ago





          The sign is just common sense. It doesn't mean the truck is at fault or not at fault, but it's telling you to use some sense if you are driving behind a huge truck full of things that could harm or kill you if they flew out.

          – Putvi
          7 hours ago




          2




          2





          @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          7 hours ago





          @Putvi Certainly those motivations can be made more clear, as with other signs (hazard / caution / danger / even this), but this sign absolves the truck of responsibility. It does nothing to inform trailing drivers about potential harm beyond material damages (broken windshields) in the context of liability.

          – Bruce Kirkpatrick
          7 hours ago


















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