What is the problem here?(all integers are irrational proof…i think so)How do we prove $n^n mid m^m...
Writing an ace/aro character?
Did Rabbi Akiva accept arguments from ignorance?
This LM317 diagram doesn't make any sense to me
Users forgetting to regenerate PDF before sending it
Need a non-volatile memory IC with near unlimited read/write operations capability
Computer name naming convention for security
Estimates on number of topologies on a finite set
What exactly is a "murder hobo"?
How many Jimmys can fit?
What are the effects of abstaining from eating a certain flavor?
Swapping "Good" and "Bad"
Did right-wing politician Franz Josef Strauss ever explain why he gave a 3 billion loan to East Germany in 1983?
Why is a mixture of two normally distributed variables only bimodal if their means differ by at least two times the common standard deviation?
Can Jimmy hang on his rope?
Why did Dumbledore ignore this line?
What is the problem here?(all integers are irrational proof...i think so)
VHDL: is there a way to create an entity into which constants can be passed?
QR codes, do people use them?
My previous employer committed a severe violation of the law and is also being sued by me. How do I explain the situation to future employers?
Why does Trump want a citizenship question on the census?
Optimization models for portfolio optimization
Generalized Behrend version for Grothendieck-Lefschetz trace formula
Performance issue in code for reading line and testing for palindrome
How to convert diagonal matrix to rectangular matrix
What is the problem here?(all integers are irrational proof…i think so)
How do we prove $n^n mid m^m Rightarrow n mid m$?Catalan constant is irrational. What is wrong with this proof?The contradiction method used to prove that the square root of a prime is irrationalComplex Exponential False “Proof” That All Integers Are $0$Understanding the proof of “$sqrt{2}$ is irrational” by contradiction.Prime Factors of the Composit Terms of Arithmetic ProgressionsIs there a quicker proof to show that $2^{10^k} equiv 7 pmod{9}$ for all positive integers $k$?Prove the sqrt of 4 is irrational, where did I go wrong?A Proof of the Fundamental Theorem of ArithmeticInteger factors of rational and irrational numbersProof verification: Prove $sqrt{n}$ is irrational.
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime let us simplify the fraction so this it is.(idk how to talk like mathematicians)
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
begin{align}
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
end{align}
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
begin{align}
b &=a^{2}d tag{where $d$ is an integer}\
b^2 &= a^{4}d^{2}
end{align}
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
begin{align}
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
end{align}
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
Whats wrong here?(genuinely asking)
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime let us simplify the fraction so this it is.(idk how to talk like mathematicians)
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
begin{align}
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
end{align}
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
begin{align}
b &=a^{2}d tag{where $d$ is an integer}\
b^2 &= a^{4}d^{2}
end{align}
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
begin{align}
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
end{align}
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
Whats wrong here?(genuinely asking)
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime let us simplify the fraction so this it is.(idk how to talk like mathematicians)
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
begin{align}
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
end{align}
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
begin{align}
b &=a^{2}d tag{where $d$ is an integer}\
b^2 &= a^{4}d^{2}
end{align}
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
begin{align}
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
end{align}
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
Whats wrong here?(genuinely asking)
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Let us assume $a$ is an integer which is rational which implies $a=p/q$ (where $p$ and $q$ are integers and $q$ not equal to $0$). If $p$ and $q$ are not coprime let us simplify the fraction so this it is.(idk how to talk like mathematicians)
Which implies, $$a=b/c$$ (where $b$ and $c$ are coprime integers). Squaring on both sides,
begin{align}
a^2&=b^2/c^2\
a^2c^2&=b^2
end{align}
So $a^2$ is a factor of $b^2$, and also of $b$, due to the uniqueness of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.
So,
begin{align}
b &=a^{2}d tag{where $d$ is an integer}\
b^2 &= a^{4}d^{2}
end{align}
But $b^2=a^2c^2$ So,
begin{align}
a^2c^2 &= a^4d^2\
c^2 &= a^2d^2
end{align}
So, $a^2$ is a factor of $c^2$ and $c$ due to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. So $b$ and $c$ have $a^2$ as a common factor. But this contradicts the fact that $b$ and $c$ are coprime. This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer.
Whats wrong here?(genuinely asking)
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
elementary-number-theory fake-proofs
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 6 hours ago
user1551
77.2k6 gold badges68 silver badges131 bronze badges
77.2k6 gold badges68 silver badges131 bronze badges
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 9 hours ago
ToolazytothinkofanameToolazytothinkofaname
111 bronze badge
111 bronze badge
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
7
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
7
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago
7
7
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
5
5
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^{m_i}$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^{j_i}$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^{k*j_i}$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^{m}|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^{2048}|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a={bover c}$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a={aover 1}$ it Also can be used to show :$a={-aover -1}$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3285940%2fwhat-is-the-problem-hereall-integers-are-irrational-proof-i-think-so%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
The problem in the proof is that $a^2|b^2nRightarrow a^2|b$. For instance, take $a=2$ and $b=6$. Clearly, $4|36$ but $4nmid 6$.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
AnandAnand
1486 bronze badges
1486 bronze badges
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Anand is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^{m_i}$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^{j_i}$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^{k*j_i}$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^{m}|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^{2048}|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^{m_i}$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^{j_i}$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^{k*j_i}$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^{m}|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^{2048}|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^{m_i}$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^{j_i}$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^{k*j_i}$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^{m}|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^{2048}|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
$endgroup$
I think you are confusing that if $p$ is prime and $p$ divides $b^k$ then $p|b$. That is true if $p$ is prime.
Actually it's also true for a composite $a|b^k$ then $a|b$ if $a$ has no square factors. But if $a$ as any prime factors to a power greater than $1$ it need not be true.
And in fact its obviously not true as $a^2$ divides $a^2$ but $a^2$ doesn't divide $a$ (unless $a = 1$).
Read on....
It most certainly is not true if $a|b^k$ that $a|b$ It means that the prime factors of $a$ are prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of those prime factors of $a$ are at most equal to $k$ times the powers of the same prime factors of $b$ but because $k$ is larger than .....
Oh let me put it this way.
Suppose $a = prod p_i^{m_i}$ be the prime factorization of $a$. Suppose $a|b^k$. Then that means that $p_i$ are prime factors of $b$ and that $b = dprod p_i^{j_i}$. And it means that $b^k = d^k prod p_i^{k*j_i}$.
And as $a|b^k$ that means each $m_i le k*j_i$. But that does not mean $m_i le j_i$ which would mean $a|b$.
You statement $a|b^k$ means $a|b$ if $a$ has square free and all the prime factor powers were $1$ but not other wise.
Simple example if $a = 12 = 2^2*3$ and $b= 90 = 2*3^2*5$. Now $a|b^2 = 8100 = 2^2*3^4*5^2$.
This means the prime factors of $a$ ($2,3$) are also prime factors of $b$. And it means that the powers of the prime factors of $a$ ($2mapsto 2; 3mapsto 1$) are less or equal to $2$ times the powers in $b$ ($2mapsto 1$ and $2 le 2*1$ and $3mapsto 2$ and $1 le 2*2$) but it doesnt mean the are less than or equal to the powers of $b$. (In $a; 2mapsto 2$ but in $b; 2mapsto 1$ and $2 not le 1$).
So $12 not mid 90$.
It's certainly can't be the case that $a|b implies a^2| b^2 implies a^2|b$! That would mean every time you have $a|b$ you can just keep squaring and reducing to get $a^{m}|b$ for any power of $m$.
That would mean if $3|6$ then $3^2|6$ and $3^4|6$ and $3^{2048}|6$ and so on.
Or in this case as $a = b$ (and $c=1$.... because $a$ is an integer) you would have $a|a$ so $a^2|a$? And $a^4|a$. That's .... simply not true.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
fleabloodfleablood
75.3k2 gold badges28 silver badges94 bronze badges
75.3k2 gold badges28 silver badges94 bronze badges
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
No, $,pmid b^k,Rightarrow, pmid b,$ is true $iff p,$ is squarefree. Follow the link for a handful of characterizations of squarefree integers.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you say "no"? That is exactly what I said.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Because the first paragraph was incorrect. Now it is correct after your edit.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay. I used "only" colloquially. My bad. I'm pretty sure the OP was confusing the FTA with Euclid's lemma. So I said that only works if $p$ is prime. Colloquially that doesn't mean $p$ being prime is required and it is false otherwise. It means you can only cite that lemma if $p$ is prime. There are many other ways $a|b^k$ and $a|b$ can both be true but citing Euclid's lemma is usually reserved for $a$ prime. But in math I shouldn't have used the loaded word "only".
$endgroup$
– fleablood
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a={bover c}$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a={aover 1}$ it Also can be used to show :$a={-aover -1}$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a={bover c}$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a={aover 1}$ it Also can be used to show :$a={-aover -1}$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a={bover c}$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a={aover 1}$ it Also can be used to show :$a={-aover -1}$
$endgroup$
Basic facts missing $ac=b$ is a lot easier to use. $a^2$ does not need to divide $b$. A fraction sharing no common factor other than 1, between the number on top ( numerator), and the number on the bottom ( denominator), is said to be in lowest terms .
Anyways starting from $a={bover c}$ we get $ac=b$ showing c divides b, sharing no factor other than 1, and therefore, $c=1$, implying $a=b$ so $a={aover 1}$ it Also can be used to show :$a={-aover -1}$
answered 25 mins ago
Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee
1,8752 gold badges2 silver badges25 bronze badges
1,8752 gold badges2 silver badges25 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Toolazytothinkofaname is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3285940%2fwhat-is-the-problem-hereall-integers-are-irrational-proof-i-think-so%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
7
$begingroup$
"a^2 is a factor b^2 and b" You are right $a^2$ divides $b^2$, but why would it divide $b$?
$endgroup$
– Wojowu
9 hours ago
5
$begingroup$
First error I spotted is that $a^2$ need not be a factor of $b$ just because it is a factor of $b^2$. Indeed, if $a=2$ and $b=2$, then $a^2=4$ is a factor of $b^2=4$ but $a^2=4$ is not a factor of $b=2$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Also, it is clear that integers are rational because given any integer $a$ we can write $a=frac{a}{1}$.
$endgroup$
– Dave
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You should probably check out math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/… to help you format your future posts. For example, it's hard to read "This is because we have taken a as a rational integer so a cannot be a rational integer" as opposed to "This is because we have taken $a$ as a rational integer so $a$ cannot be a rational integer".
$endgroup$
– Hendrix
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
If b and c are coprime, and a=b/c, then what does c have to be?
$endgroup$
– pokep
7 hours ago