Why didn't NASA launch communications relay satellites for the Apollo missions?How did the Apollo astronauts...
"move up the school" meaning
TCP connections hang during handshake
Why should fork() have been designed to return a file descriptor?
Could a US citizen born through "birth tourism" become President?
BIP-23 criticism: Is bitcoin PoW actually sha256+merkleGeneration? Or have I misunderstood coinbase/append?
Making an example from 'Clean Code' more functional
Does unblocking power bar outlets through short extension cords increase fire risk?
When we are talking about black hole evaporation - what exactly happens?
I want light controlled by one switch, not two
Has anyone ever written a novel or short story composed of only dialogue?
Why do we need an estimator to be consistent?
Do you need to have the original move to take a "Replaces:" move?
Can a crisscrossed metallic skeleton resist earthquakes for buildings?
Difference between string += s1 and string = string + s1
Is there an English word to describe when a sound "protrudes"?
Linearize or approximate a square root constraint
How far off did Apollo 11 land?
Why didn't NASA launch communications relay satellites for the Apollo missions?
What is the difference between uniform velocity and constant velocity?
What would be the effects of (relatively) widespread precognition on the stock market?
Why does airflow separate from the wing during stall?
Three phase systems - are there any single phase devices that are connected between two phases instead of between one phase and neutral?
Conditional statement in a function for PS1 are not re-evalutated
Rule of thumb to choose right mix of Rodinal developer?
Why didn't NASA launch communications relay satellites for the Apollo missions?
How did the Apollo astronauts train for the 1/6G lunar landing?Why were there beeps punctuating the voice communications during missions such as Apollo?What is the best (NASA preferred) location for a lunar colony?What's the current timeline for NASA's Mars orbiter laser communications?What was the purpose of an Apollo 10 test?What GEO relay satellite will the ISS use for end-to-end optical communication with a ground station?Why was MarCO-B CubeSats flying away after InSight landed?Has NASA “gone south”? Why are astronauts needed to explore the Moon's south pole?Why could the Lunar Ascent Engine be used only once?Why was the Saturn V considered to be human-rated after Apollo 6?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
$begingroup$
The Apollo missions were in communications blackout when the spacecraft's orbit took it to the far side of the Moon. During the missions, the craft had to perform maneuvers such as the lunar orbit insertion burn on the far side. Without ground support, and without any way of even telling the ground what went wrong, if something did. That seems like an unnecessary risk to me!
I see no reason why NASA couldn't have used relay satellites to allow communications on the far side. Multiple lunar orbiters predated the manned missions, and relay satellites had been operational in Earth orbit since 1962. The cost of such relays would surely have been quite small compared to the whole project.
Was this considered at some point? If so, why wasn't it done?
nasa apollo-program
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Apollo missions were in communications blackout when the spacecraft's orbit took it to the far side of the Moon. During the missions, the craft had to perform maneuvers such as the lunar orbit insertion burn on the far side. Without ground support, and without any way of even telling the ground what went wrong, if something did. That seems like an unnecessary risk to me!
I see no reason why NASA couldn't have used relay satellites to allow communications on the far side. Multiple lunar orbiters predated the manned missions, and relay satellites had been operational in Earth orbit since 1962. The cost of such relays would surely have been quite small compared to the whole project.
Was this considered at some point? If so, why wasn't it done?
nasa apollo-program
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Apollo missions were in communications blackout when the spacecraft's orbit took it to the far side of the Moon. During the missions, the craft had to perform maneuvers such as the lunar orbit insertion burn on the far side. Without ground support, and without any way of even telling the ground what went wrong, if something did. That seems like an unnecessary risk to me!
I see no reason why NASA couldn't have used relay satellites to allow communications on the far side. Multiple lunar orbiters predated the manned missions, and relay satellites had been operational in Earth orbit since 1962. The cost of such relays would surely have been quite small compared to the whole project.
Was this considered at some point? If so, why wasn't it done?
nasa apollo-program
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
The Apollo missions were in communications blackout when the spacecraft's orbit took it to the far side of the Moon. During the missions, the craft had to perform maneuvers such as the lunar orbit insertion burn on the far side. Without ground support, and without any way of even telling the ground what went wrong, if something did. That seems like an unnecessary risk to me!
I see no reason why NASA couldn't have used relay satellites to allow communications on the far side. Multiple lunar orbiters predated the manned missions, and relay satellites had been operational in Earth orbit since 1962. The cost of such relays would surely have been quite small compared to the whole project.
Was this considered at some point? If so, why wasn't it done?
nasa apollo-program
nasa apollo-program
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
ExasperationExasperation
1192 bronze badges
1192 bronze badges
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Exasperation is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's not mentioned in Apollo documentation. However, these would be the arguments against it:
The idea of two spacecraft was already controversial. Now you want three? The original Apollo concept was a "direct" mission. The entire mission would launch as one vehicle, shedding pieces as you go, but never putting pieces back together. All of the astronauts and their Earth return vehicle would land together on the moon and take off again.
Apollo ended up using "lunar orbit rendezvous" instead. One vehicle would launch toward the moon. However, once in lunar orbit, a minimal lander would separate from the main vehicle, land on the moon, and return back to lunar orbit to dock with the main vehicle.
All of the major domos at NASA (e.g. Von Braun, Faget, Gilruth) were initially opposed to the idea of LOR. Rendezvous had never been done before. It needed new mathematical models, automated flight computers, miniaturized radar, docking mechanisms, more stations in mission control, crew and mission control training, and so on. It was only when the size and price of a direct mission was determined to be too costly that the LOR approach was taken seriously. And it had to be proven reliable in the Gemini program.
Now, you want three (or even more) spacecraft? The battle for just two was bad enough, no one wanted to pick that fight again.
Satellites were unreliable. The technology was new, and their lifespan was short. When a satellite died, there was no way to fix it, so now you must deal without it. The long-term effects of radiation, thermal degradation, and micrometeoroids were not known until the Pegasus satellites were launched on the Saturn I test missions AS-103 through AS-105.
The technology was unproven. Communication had only been done between ground and spacecraft. Now you want both ground-to-spacecraft and spacecraft-to-spacecraft? The latter hadn't even been done yet!
We were in a race. It's not that the above issues were impossible, but they would take time to get them to work. (For example, we can do it today.) We were in a race with the Soviets, and in a race with the end of the decade. There wasn't time to develop a solution.
You ought to plan for that contingency anyway. One of the most serious problems with spaceflight is losing communication with mission control. But it is also something you can plan for. You train your astronauts how to diagnose the problem, how to solve the problem, and how to stay safe in the meantime. You are going to plan for that contingency anyway, so why not embrace it?
Also, going around the far side of the moon is a predictable, regular event. You can make your plans around this schedule. And the LM lands on the near side of the moon, so you don't have to worry about that.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A communications satellite would have to be in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point to have continuous, simultaneous visibility of both the Moon's far side and Earth. The first paper describing this kind of orbit was written in 1968, too late to be used for Apollo.
- P. E. Schmid, June 1968: Lunar Far-Side Communicatio Satellites; NASA TN D-4509
This was followed up by
- Robert Farquhar, 1971: The Utilization of Halo Orbits in Advanced Lunar Operations; NASA TN 0-6365
I can't reach the NTRS right now, but it should have more data on this subject. More tomorrow.
SUMMARY
This report investigates the feasibility of communicating with Apollo spacecraft behind the moon and of communications between two such spacecraft. Two satellite geometries are considered for signal relay: a libration or "Hummingbird" satellite anchored 65,000 km behind the moon and a lunar-orbiting relay satellite at 1000-km altitude. The signal transmission frequencies of the Apollo spacecraft are VHF and unified S-band (USB) operating at 300 MHz and 2 GHz, respectively. The three propagation links examined in this report include: lunar far side, i.e., Lunar Module (LM) on lunar surface and/or lunar-orbiting command and service module (CSM), to earth; lunar far side LM to CSM; lunar far side surface to surface.
It is shown that as a result of antenna pointing constraints, only the libration or "Hummingbird" satellite is suitable for relaying USB tracking and communication data to earth. It is also shown that acquisition of a 1000-km altitude lunar satellite by an Apollo spacecraft dictates the use of VHF. Various modes-feasible and unfeasible-of lunar far- side radio relays are listed below, with their respective methods of communication.


$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "508"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Exasperation is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37539%2fwhy-didnt-nasa-launch-communications-relay-satellites-for-the-apollo-missions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's not mentioned in Apollo documentation. However, these would be the arguments against it:
The idea of two spacecraft was already controversial. Now you want three? The original Apollo concept was a "direct" mission. The entire mission would launch as one vehicle, shedding pieces as you go, but never putting pieces back together. All of the astronauts and their Earth return vehicle would land together on the moon and take off again.
Apollo ended up using "lunar orbit rendezvous" instead. One vehicle would launch toward the moon. However, once in lunar orbit, a minimal lander would separate from the main vehicle, land on the moon, and return back to lunar orbit to dock with the main vehicle.
All of the major domos at NASA (e.g. Von Braun, Faget, Gilruth) were initially opposed to the idea of LOR. Rendezvous had never been done before. It needed new mathematical models, automated flight computers, miniaturized radar, docking mechanisms, more stations in mission control, crew and mission control training, and so on. It was only when the size and price of a direct mission was determined to be too costly that the LOR approach was taken seriously. And it had to be proven reliable in the Gemini program.
Now, you want three (or even more) spacecraft? The battle for just two was bad enough, no one wanted to pick that fight again.
Satellites were unreliable. The technology was new, and their lifespan was short. When a satellite died, there was no way to fix it, so now you must deal without it. The long-term effects of radiation, thermal degradation, and micrometeoroids were not known until the Pegasus satellites were launched on the Saturn I test missions AS-103 through AS-105.
The technology was unproven. Communication had only been done between ground and spacecraft. Now you want both ground-to-spacecraft and spacecraft-to-spacecraft? The latter hadn't even been done yet!
We were in a race. It's not that the above issues were impossible, but they would take time to get them to work. (For example, we can do it today.) We were in a race with the Soviets, and in a race with the end of the decade. There wasn't time to develop a solution.
You ought to plan for that contingency anyway. One of the most serious problems with spaceflight is losing communication with mission control. But it is also something you can plan for. You train your astronauts how to diagnose the problem, how to solve the problem, and how to stay safe in the meantime. You are going to plan for that contingency anyway, so why not embrace it?
Also, going around the far side of the moon is a predictable, regular event. You can make your plans around this schedule. And the LM lands on the near side of the moon, so you don't have to worry about that.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not mentioned in Apollo documentation. However, these would be the arguments against it:
The idea of two spacecraft was already controversial. Now you want three? The original Apollo concept was a "direct" mission. The entire mission would launch as one vehicle, shedding pieces as you go, but never putting pieces back together. All of the astronauts and their Earth return vehicle would land together on the moon and take off again.
Apollo ended up using "lunar orbit rendezvous" instead. One vehicle would launch toward the moon. However, once in lunar orbit, a minimal lander would separate from the main vehicle, land on the moon, and return back to lunar orbit to dock with the main vehicle.
All of the major domos at NASA (e.g. Von Braun, Faget, Gilruth) were initially opposed to the idea of LOR. Rendezvous had never been done before. It needed new mathematical models, automated flight computers, miniaturized radar, docking mechanisms, more stations in mission control, crew and mission control training, and so on. It was only when the size and price of a direct mission was determined to be too costly that the LOR approach was taken seriously. And it had to be proven reliable in the Gemini program.
Now, you want three (or even more) spacecraft? The battle for just two was bad enough, no one wanted to pick that fight again.
Satellites were unreliable. The technology was new, and their lifespan was short. When a satellite died, there was no way to fix it, so now you must deal without it. The long-term effects of radiation, thermal degradation, and micrometeoroids were not known until the Pegasus satellites were launched on the Saturn I test missions AS-103 through AS-105.
The technology was unproven. Communication had only been done between ground and spacecraft. Now you want both ground-to-spacecraft and spacecraft-to-spacecraft? The latter hadn't even been done yet!
We were in a race. It's not that the above issues were impossible, but they would take time to get them to work. (For example, we can do it today.) We were in a race with the Soviets, and in a race with the end of the decade. There wasn't time to develop a solution.
You ought to plan for that contingency anyway. One of the most serious problems with spaceflight is losing communication with mission control. But it is also something you can plan for. You train your astronauts how to diagnose the problem, how to solve the problem, and how to stay safe in the meantime. You are going to plan for that contingency anyway, so why not embrace it?
Also, going around the far side of the moon is a predictable, regular event. You can make your plans around this schedule. And the LM lands on the near side of the moon, so you don't have to worry about that.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's not mentioned in Apollo documentation. However, these would be the arguments against it:
The idea of two spacecraft was already controversial. Now you want three? The original Apollo concept was a "direct" mission. The entire mission would launch as one vehicle, shedding pieces as you go, but never putting pieces back together. All of the astronauts and their Earth return vehicle would land together on the moon and take off again.
Apollo ended up using "lunar orbit rendezvous" instead. One vehicle would launch toward the moon. However, once in lunar orbit, a minimal lander would separate from the main vehicle, land on the moon, and return back to lunar orbit to dock with the main vehicle.
All of the major domos at NASA (e.g. Von Braun, Faget, Gilruth) were initially opposed to the idea of LOR. Rendezvous had never been done before. It needed new mathematical models, automated flight computers, miniaturized radar, docking mechanisms, more stations in mission control, crew and mission control training, and so on. It was only when the size and price of a direct mission was determined to be too costly that the LOR approach was taken seriously. And it had to be proven reliable in the Gemini program.
Now, you want three (or even more) spacecraft? The battle for just two was bad enough, no one wanted to pick that fight again.
Satellites were unreliable. The technology was new, and their lifespan was short. When a satellite died, there was no way to fix it, so now you must deal without it. The long-term effects of radiation, thermal degradation, and micrometeoroids were not known until the Pegasus satellites were launched on the Saturn I test missions AS-103 through AS-105.
The technology was unproven. Communication had only been done between ground and spacecraft. Now you want both ground-to-spacecraft and spacecraft-to-spacecraft? The latter hadn't even been done yet!
We were in a race. It's not that the above issues were impossible, but they would take time to get them to work. (For example, we can do it today.) We were in a race with the Soviets, and in a race with the end of the decade. There wasn't time to develop a solution.
You ought to plan for that contingency anyway. One of the most serious problems with spaceflight is losing communication with mission control. But it is also something you can plan for. You train your astronauts how to diagnose the problem, how to solve the problem, and how to stay safe in the meantime. You are going to plan for that contingency anyway, so why not embrace it?
Also, going around the far side of the moon is a predictable, regular event. You can make your plans around this schedule. And the LM lands on the near side of the moon, so you don't have to worry about that.
$endgroup$
It's not mentioned in Apollo documentation. However, these would be the arguments against it:
The idea of two spacecraft was already controversial. Now you want three? The original Apollo concept was a "direct" mission. The entire mission would launch as one vehicle, shedding pieces as you go, but never putting pieces back together. All of the astronauts and their Earth return vehicle would land together on the moon and take off again.
Apollo ended up using "lunar orbit rendezvous" instead. One vehicle would launch toward the moon. However, once in lunar orbit, a minimal lander would separate from the main vehicle, land on the moon, and return back to lunar orbit to dock with the main vehicle.
All of the major domos at NASA (e.g. Von Braun, Faget, Gilruth) were initially opposed to the idea of LOR. Rendezvous had never been done before. It needed new mathematical models, automated flight computers, miniaturized radar, docking mechanisms, more stations in mission control, crew and mission control training, and so on. It was only when the size and price of a direct mission was determined to be too costly that the LOR approach was taken seriously. And it had to be proven reliable in the Gemini program.
Now, you want three (or even more) spacecraft? The battle for just two was bad enough, no one wanted to pick that fight again.
Satellites were unreliable. The technology was new, and their lifespan was short. When a satellite died, there was no way to fix it, so now you must deal without it. The long-term effects of radiation, thermal degradation, and micrometeoroids were not known until the Pegasus satellites were launched on the Saturn I test missions AS-103 through AS-105.
The technology was unproven. Communication had only been done between ground and spacecraft. Now you want both ground-to-spacecraft and spacecraft-to-spacecraft? The latter hadn't even been done yet!
We were in a race. It's not that the above issues were impossible, but they would take time to get them to work. (For example, we can do it today.) We were in a race with the Soviets, and in a race with the end of the decade. There wasn't time to develop a solution.
You ought to plan for that contingency anyway. One of the most serious problems with spaceflight is losing communication with mission control. But it is also something you can plan for. You train your astronauts how to diagnose the problem, how to solve the problem, and how to stay safe in the meantime. You are going to plan for that contingency anyway, so why not embrace it?
Also, going around the far side of the moon is a predictable, regular event. You can make your plans around this schedule. And the LM lands on the near side of the moon, so you don't have to worry about that.
answered 4 hours ago
DrSheldonDrSheldon
11.2k3 gold badges42 silver badges103 bronze badges
11.2k3 gold badges42 silver badges103 bronze badges
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A communications satellite would have to be in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point to have continuous, simultaneous visibility of both the Moon's far side and Earth. The first paper describing this kind of orbit was written in 1968, too late to be used for Apollo.
- P. E. Schmid, June 1968: Lunar Far-Side Communicatio Satellites; NASA TN D-4509
This was followed up by
- Robert Farquhar, 1971: The Utilization of Halo Orbits in Advanced Lunar Operations; NASA TN 0-6365
I can't reach the NTRS right now, but it should have more data on this subject. More tomorrow.
SUMMARY
This report investigates the feasibility of communicating with Apollo spacecraft behind the moon and of communications between two such spacecraft. Two satellite geometries are considered for signal relay: a libration or "Hummingbird" satellite anchored 65,000 km behind the moon and a lunar-orbiting relay satellite at 1000-km altitude. The signal transmission frequencies of the Apollo spacecraft are VHF and unified S-band (USB) operating at 300 MHz and 2 GHz, respectively. The three propagation links examined in this report include: lunar far side, i.e., Lunar Module (LM) on lunar surface and/or lunar-orbiting command and service module (CSM), to earth; lunar far side LM to CSM; lunar far side surface to surface.
It is shown that as a result of antenna pointing constraints, only the libration or "Hummingbird" satellite is suitable for relaying USB tracking and communication data to earth. It is also shown that acquisition of a 1000-km altitude lunar satellite by an Apollo spacecraft dictates the use of VHF. Various modes-feasible and unfeasible-of lunar far- side radio relays are listed below, with their respective methods of communication.


$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A communications satellite would have to be in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point to have continuous, simultaneous visibility of both the Moon's far side and Earth. The first paper describing this kind of orbit was written in 1968, too late to be used for Apollo.
- P. E. Schmid, June 1968: Lunar Far-Side Communicatio Satellites; NASA TN D-4509
This was followed up by
- Robert Farquhar, 1971: The Utilization of Halo Orbits in Advanced Lunar Operations; NASA TN 0-6365
I can't reach the NTRS right now, but it should have more data on this subject. More tomorrow.
SUMMARY
This report investigates the feasibility of communicating with Apollo spacecraft behind the moon and of communications between two such spacecraft. Two satellite geometries are considered for signal relay: a libration or "Hummingbird" satellite anchored 65,000 km behind the moon and a lunar-orbiting relay satellite at 1000-km altitude. The signal transmission frequencies of the Apollo spacecraft are VHF and unified S-band (USB) operating at 300 MHz and 2 GHz, respectively. The three propagation links examined in this report include: lunar far side, i.e., Lunar Module (LM) on lunar surface and/or lunar-orbiting command and service module (CSM), to earth; lunar far side LM to CSM; lunar far side surface to surface.
It is shown that as a result of antenna pointing constraints, only the libration or "Hummingbird" satellite is suitable for relaying USB tracking and communication data to earth. It is also shown that acquisition of a 1000-km altitude lunar satellite by an Apollo spacecraft dictates the use of VHF. Various modes-feasible and unfeasible-of lunar far- side radio relays are listed below, with their respective methods of communication.


$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A communications satellite would have to be in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point to have continuous, simultaneous visibility of both the Moon's far side and Earth. The first paper describing this kind of orbit was written in 1968, too late to be used for Apollo.
- P. E. Schmid, June 1968: Lunar Far-Side Communicatio Satellites; NASA TN D-4509
This was followed up by
- Robert Farquhar, 1971: The Utilization of Halo Orbits in Advanced Lunar Operations; NASA TN 0-6365
I can't reach the NTRS right now, but it should have more data on this subject. More tomorrow.
SUMMARY
This report investigates the feasibility of communicating with Apollo spacecraft behind the moon and of communications between two such spacecraft. Two satellite geometries are considered for signal relay: a libration or "Hummingbird" satellite anchored 65,000 km behind the moon and a lunar-orbiting relay satellite at 1000-km altitude. The signal transmission frequencies of the Apollo spacecraft are VHF and unified S-band (USB) operating at 300 MHz and 2 GHz, respectively. The three propagation links examined in this report include: lunar far side, i.e., Lunar Module (LM) on lunar surface and/or lunar-orbiting command and service module (CSM), to earth; lunar far side LM to CSM; lunar far side surface to surface.
It is shown that as a result of antenna pointing constraints, only the libration or "Hummingbird" satellite is suitable for relaying USB tracking and communication data to earth. It is also shown that acquisition of a 1000-km altitude lunar satellite by an Apollo spacecraft dictates the use of VHF. Various modes-feasible and unfeasible-of lunar far- side radio relays are listed below, with their respective methods of communication.


$endgroup$
A communications satellite would have to be in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point to have continuous, simultaneous visibility of both the Moon's far side and Earth. The first paper describing this kind of orbit was written in 1968, too late to be used for Apollo.
- P. E. Schmid, June 1968: Lunar Far-Side Communicatio Satellites; NASA TN D-4509
This was followed up by
- Robert Farquhar, 1971: The Utilization of Halo Orbits in Advanced Lunar Operations; NASA TN 0-6365
I can't reach the NTRS right now, but it should have more data on this subject. More tomorrow.
SUMMARY
This report investigates the feasibility of communicating with Apollo spacecraft behind the moon and of communications between two such spacecraft. Two satellite geometries are considered for signal relay: a libration or "Hummingbird" satellite anchored 65,000 km behind the moon and a lunar-orbiting relay satellite at 1000-km altitude. The signal transmission frequencies of the Apollo spacecraft are VHF and unified S-band (USB) operating at 300 MHz and 2 GHz, respectively. The three propagation links examined in this report include: lunar far side, i.e., Lunar Module (LM) on lunar surface and/or lunar-orbiting command and service module (CSM), to earth; lunar far side LM to CSM; lunar far side surface to surface.
It is shown that as a result of antenna pointing constraints, only the libration or "Hummingbird" satellite is suitable for relaying USB tracking and communication data to earth. It is also shown that acquisition of a 1000-km altitude lunar satellite by an Apollo spacecraft dictates the use of VHF. Various modes-feasible and unfeasible-of lunar far- side radio relays are listed below, with their respective methods of communication.


edited 2 hours ago
uhoh
46.9k22 gold badges191 silver badges614 bronze badges
46.9k22 gold badges191 silver badges614 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
HobbesHobbes
102k2 gold badges296 silver badges454 bronze badges
102k2 gold badges296 silver badges454 bronze badges
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
It wouldn't have to be a single relay at L2; you could have a constellation of 3 or 4 relays in lunar equatorial orbit.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've added some information from the link for you temporarily, I hope you don't mind; once you can access the PDF feel free to improve.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
cool (from 2017): Preliminary Mission Design and Analysis of a Lunar Far-side Positioning CubeSat Mission
$endgroup$
– uhoh
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Exasperation is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Exasperation is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Exasperation is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Exasperation is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Space Exploration Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f37539%2fwhy-didnt-nasa-launch-communications-relay-satellites-for-the-apollo-missions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown