Why do Americans say “less than five people”?“Less” vs. “fewer”Should an article be used for the...
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Why do Americans say “less than five people”?
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I thought "people" is countable, so we should say "fewer than five people"?
Being in the US for many years, I rarely hear people saying "fewer than," even with countable nouns like "people."
I presume this usage is grammatically wrong, but idiomatic?
countable-nouns
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
|
show 3 more comments
I thought "people" is countable, so we should say "fewer than five people"?
Being in the US for many years, I rarely hear people saying "fewer than," even with countable nouns like "people."
I presume this usage is grammatically wrong, but idiomatic?
countable-nouns
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
1
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
3
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
1
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
1
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
3
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I thought "people" is countable, so we should say "fewer than five people"?
Being in the US for many years, I rarely hear people saying "fewer than," even with countable nouns like "people."
I presume this usage is grammatically wrong, but idiomatic?
countable-nouns
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
I thought "people" is countable, so we should say "fewer than five people"?
Being in the US for many years, I rarely hear people saying "fewer than," even with countable nouns like "people."
I presume this usage is grammatically wrong, but idiomatic?
countable-nouns
countable-nouns
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
asked 8 hours ago
Sibbs GamblingSibbs Gambling
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
2435 silver badges18 bronze badges
1
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
3
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
1
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
1
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
3
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
1
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
3
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
1
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
1
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
3
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
1
1
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
3
3
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
1
1
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
1
1
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
3
3
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Some style guides presecribe "less" for uncountables and "fewer" for countables; however, historical precedent does not support this stricture, and in some contexts the countable "less" may even be preferred. One such context is when the word is applied to a number or quantity rather than to a group of countable things or amount of uncountable stuff. This is why in mathematics the symbol "<" is read "less than" rather than "fewer than", even when it's expressing a relation between natural numbers. In your example, the phrase "less than" is applied to "five", not to "people".
One way or another, this is a matter of style, not grammar, so "fewer than five people" would be equally correct.
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
add a comment |
“Less than five people” is grammatical
You use less than before a number or amount to say that the actual number or amount is smallar than this.
- Motorways actually cover less than 0.1 percent of the countryside.
- Less than a half hour later he returned upstairs.
(Collins)
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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Some style guides presecribe "less" for uncountables and "fewer" for countables; however, historical precedent does not support this stricture, and in some contexts the countable "less" may even be preferred. One such context is when the word is applied to a number or quantity rather than to a group of countable things or amount of uncountable stuff. This is why in mathematics the symbol "<" is read "less than" rather than "fewer than", even when it's expressing a relation between natural numbers. In your example, the phrase "less than" is applied to "five", not to "people".
One way or another, this is a matter of style, not grammar, so "fewer than five people" would be equally correct.
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Some style guides presecribe "less" for uncountables and "fewer" for countables; however, historical precedent does not support this stricture, and in some contexts the countable "less" may even be preferred. One such context is when the word is applied to a number or quantity rather than to a group of countable things or amount of uncountable stuff. This is why in mathematics the symbol "<" is read "less than" rather than "fewer than", even when it's expressing a relation between natural numbers. In your example, the phrase "less than" is applied to "five", not to "people".
One way or another, this is a matter of style, not grammar, so "fewer than five people" would be equally correct.
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Some style guides presecribe "less" for uncountables and "fewer" for countables; however, historical precedent does not support this stricture, and in some contexts the countable "less" may even be preferred. One such context is when the word is applied to a number or quantity rather than to a group of countable things or amount of uncountable stuff. This is why in mathematics the symbol "<" is read "less than" rather than "fewer than", even when it's expressing a relation between natural numbers. In your example, the phrase "less than" is applied to "five", not to "people".
One way or another, this is a matter of style, not grammar, so "fewer than five people" would be equally correct.
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
Some style guides presecribe "less" for uncountables and "fewer" for countables; however, historical precedent does not support this stricture, and in some contexts the countable "less" may even be preferred. One such context is when the word is applied to a number or quantity rather than to a group of countable things or amount of uncountable stuff. This is why in mathematics the symbol "<" is read "less than" rather than "fewer than", even when it's expressing a relation between natural numbers. In your example, the phrase "less than" is applied to "five", not to "people".
One way or another, this is a matter of style, not grammar, so "fewer than five people" would be equally correct.
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
answered 6 hours ago
Foobie BletchFoobie Bletch
972 bronze badges
972 bronze badges
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
1
1
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
Robert Baker was a consummate conman. In his Reflections on the English Language he managed to sell aspiring writers of English that particular piece of snake oil, that has taken them in for 200 years. There ws no such rule until he tentatively advanced it.
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago
add a comment |
“Less than five people” is grammatical
You use less than before a number or amount to say that the actual number or amount is smallar than this.
- Motorways actually cover less than 0.1 percent of the countryside.
- Less than a half hour later he returned upstairs.
(Collins)
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
add a comment |
“Less than five people” is grammatical
You use less than before a number or amount to say that the actual number or amount is smallar than this.
- Motorways actually cover less than 0.1 percent of the countryside.
- Less than a half hour later he returned upstairs.
(Collins)
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
add a comment |
“Less than five people” is grammatical
You use less than before a number or amount to say that the actual number or amount is smallar than this.
- Motorways actually cover less than 0.1 percent of the countryside.
- Less than a half hour later he returned upstairs.
(Collins)
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
“Less than five people” is grammatical
You use less than before a number or amount to say that the actual number or amount is smallar than this.
- Motorways actually cover less than 0.1 percent of the countryside.
- Less than a half hour later he returned upstairs.
(Collins)
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
answered 8 hours ago
user240918user240918
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
30k13 gold badges84 silver badges176 bronze badges
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
1
1
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
What about discrete units like 'items', as in the perennial express grocery line proviso question?
– Mitch
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
@Mitch- books.google.com/ngrams/…
– user240918
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
Sure. Please add and analyze in your answer if it is relevant. (please discuss the context in which the two versions appear, which is what the OP is asking about, countable vs continuous, AmE vs BrE, and why your answer doesn't belong at the possible duplicate.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
I don’t think it has anything to do with AmE, it is just a common usage.
– user240918
8 hours ago
3
3
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
This does not address the question, which expresses confusion about "less" being used with discrete objects. Countryside and time are both continuous quamtities, and thus call for "less".
– Acccumulation
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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1
There are probably contexts in which "less than five people" is correct. In general it's probably a "mistake" caused by people not caring to follow a rule that adds little or no important information. It may be a language shift in the making, like the disappearance of "whom" and the subjunctive mood. Oh well, say la v.
– Juhasz
8 hours ago
3
I don't find such things limited to Americans.
– choster
8 hours ago
1
See the graph at Google Books which shows that that exact phrase is currently more popular in British books.
– Mitch
8 hours ago
1
to frustrate Stannis
– Steven Burnap
7 hours ago
3
See Lynne Murphy's The Prodigal Tongue about the tendency of Brits to assume that any usage they don't like must be American (and the tendency of Americans to assume that any usage they like more than their own must be British).
– Colin Fine
5 hours ago