First amendment and employment: Can an police department terminate an officer for speech?Can private...

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First amendment and employment: Can an police department terminate an officer for speech?


Can private institutions fire employees without concern for the First Amendment?First amendment law and Facebook posts, posted by non-AmericansDMCA and First Amendment: When can a commentator be compelled to reveal their method of content acquisition?Can private institutions fire employees without concern for the First Amendment?What is necessary for a newly formed religion to enjoy first amendment protections?






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5















The following article from CNN describes a Michigan police officer being put on administrative leave for having KKK material at his home: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/michigan-officer-placed-on-leave-kkk-document-house/index.html. The materials were discovered while a potential buyer was touring his house.



Although I vehemently condemn the KKK, doesn't this officer have the right to display whatever he wants in his home so long as it doesn't actively and deliberately call for violence? Aren't these articles protected under the first amendment? I realize this is an extreme example, and as a police officer his job requires interacting with all races, but unless it can be shown that he's bigoted and that it negatively affected his job performance, isn't it illegal to fire him?



Employers can restrict speech according to company policy while at work, but we all have to go home at some point. Can those restrictions follow us after clocking out?










share|improve this question






















  • 5





    A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

    – Michael Seifert
    16 hours ago






  • 3





    Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

    – jeffronicus
    15 hours ago











  • Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

    – Mazura
    1 hour ago


















5















The following article from CNN describes a Michigan police officer being put on administrative leave for having KKK material at his home: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/michigan-officer-placed-on-leave-kkk-document-house/index.html. The materials were discovered while a potential buyer was touring his house.



Although I vehemently condemn the KKK, doesn't this officer have the right to display whatever he wants in his home so long as it doesn't actively and deliberately call for violence? Aren't these articles protected under the first amendment? I realize this is an extreme example, and as a police officer his job requires interacting with all races, but unless it can be shown that he's bigoted and that it negatively affected his job performance, isn't it illegal to fire him?



Employers can restrict speech according to company policy while at work, but we all have to go home at some point. Can those restrictions follow us after clocking out?










share|improve this question






















  • 5





    A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

    – Michael Seifert
    16 hours ago






  • 3





    Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

    – jeffronicus
    15 hours ago











  • Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

    – Mazura
    1 hour ago














5












5








5








The following article from CNN describes a Michigan police officer being put on administrative leave for having KKK material at his home: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/michigan-officer-placed-on-leave-kkk-document-house/index.html. The materials were discovered while a potential buyer was touring his house.



Although I vehemently condemn the KKK, doesn't this officer have the right to display whatever he wants in his home so long as it doesn't actively and deliberately call for violence? Aren't these articles protected under the first amendment? I realize this is an extreme example, and as a police officer his job requires interacting with all races, but unless it can be shown that he's bigoted and that it negatively affected his job performance, isn't it illegal to fire him?



Employers can restrict speech according to company policy while at work, but we all have to go home at some point. Can those restrictions follow us after clocking out?










share|improve this question
















The following article from CNN describes a Michigan police officer being put on administrative leave for having KKK material at his home: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/michigan-officer-placed-on-leave-kkk-document-house/index.html. The materials were discovered while a potential buyer was touring his house.



Although I vehemently condemn the KKK, doesn't this officer have the right to display whatever he wants in his home so long as it doesn't actively and deliberately call for violence? Aren't these articles protected under the first amendment? I realize this is an extreme example, and as a police officer his job requires interacting with all races, but unless it can be shown that he's bigoted and that it negatively affected his job performance, isn't it illegal to fire him?



Employers can restrict speech according to company policy while at work, but we all have to go home at some point. Can those restrictions follow us after clocking out?







first-amendment






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













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edited 1 hour ago









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  • 5





    A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

    – Michael Seifert
    16 hours ago






  • 3





    Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

    – jeffronicus
    15 hours ago











  • Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

    – Mazura
    1 hour ago














  • 5





    A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

    – Michael Seifert
    16 hours ago






  • 3





    Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

    – jeffronicus
    15 hours ago











  • Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

    – Mazura
    1 hour ago








5




5





A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

– Michael Seifert
16 hours ago





A few thoughts: (a) public servants generally have more restricted free speech rights than those working in the private sector; (b) in this particular case the officer hasn't been fired, he's been "placed on administrative leave, pending a thorough investigation." Presumably this investigation would focus on whether his views have actually reduced his effectiveness in working with the public.

– Michael Seifert
16 hours ago




3




3





Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

– jeffronicus
15 hours ago





Question title should clarify that person in question is government employee. First Amendment, of course, does not pertain otherwise.

– jeffronicus
15 hours ago













Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

– Mazura
1 hour ago





Nitpick: not "for"; after and following.... "placed on administrative leave" after or following. If he got placed on admin leave for something, it was the "outpouring of support on [a Facebook] post". If the paperwork says, admin leave for owning KKK materials, then I'll eat my shorts.

– Mazura
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















25














In general, employers are free to fire you for your speech. The First Amendment does not apply to anyone except the government (other than a narrow set of circumstances where private parties act on behalf of the government or take on government roles, like when private universities employ campus police). If the officer was being fired from a job at a private company, this would not be an interesting question -- the answer would clearly be "no, there is no First Amendment claim here."



What makes this interesting is that the government is involved. Unlike private employers, government agencies are bound by the First Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court held that this does restrict them in their role as employer and that they can't necessarily fire an employee for speech. Pickering imposes a balancing test, where the harm to the employee's First Amendment rights is weighed against the government's interest in efficient operation. Courts have given particular leeway to police departments punishing speech that would undermine public trust and confidence in the department. A police officer expressing racist views, even privately, can seriously hamper the effectiveness of the department if the speech gets linked back to them. For instance, see Pappas v. Giuliani, where the Second Circuit upheld the firing of an NYPD officer for anonymously mailing racist diatribes from home in his off-duty time.



Another answer suggests that the main question is a public safety one: whether the officer could be trusted to carry out his duties without bias. But that's not the only legitimate consideration for the government employer. The courts have repeatedly held that public perception of an agency is a legitimate concern, especially when it comes to agencies (like the police) whose job requires maintaining good relations with the community. In Pappas, the officer was assigned as a computer operator who had no contact with the public, but he was still a police officer whose speech had a high potential to undermine NYPD community relations.





share

































    1














    A private employer absolutely can fire you for your speech, even speech off their property, as the First Amendment is a directive to the government. States can pass their own statutes to restrict termination for speech, and some may have.



    For the government, the answer is generally "no". But there could be a public safety exception in this situation, where the officer can no longer be trusted to carry out his duties without bias.






    share|improve this answer

































      0














      The freedom of speech only protects you from the government prosecuting you for expressing your political opinions.



      Even if your employer was the government, being fired it not persecution by the government. Getting tried in a court of law is persecution by the government.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor



      Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.
























        Your Answer








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        3 Answers
        3






        active

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        3 Answers
        3






        active

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        active

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        active

        oldest

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        25














        In general, employers are free to fire you for your speech. The First Amendment does not apply to anyone except the government (other than a narrow set of circumstances where private parties act on behalf of the government or take on government roles, like when private universities employ campus police). If the officer was being fired from a job at a private company, this would not be an interesting question -- the answer would clearly be "no, there is no First Amendment claim here."



        What makes this interesting is that the government is involved. Unlike private employers, government agencies are bound by the First Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court held that this does restrict them in their role as employer and that they can't necessarily fire an employee for speech. Pickering imposes a balancing test, where the harm to the employee's First Amendment rights is weighed against the government's interest in efficient operation. Courts have given particular leeway to police departments punishing speech that would undermine public trust and confidence in the department. A police officer expressing racist views, even privately, can seriously hamper the effectiveness of the department if the speech gets linked back to them. For instance, see Pappas v. Giuliani, where the Second Circuit upheld the firing of an NYPD officer for anonymously mailing racist diatribes from home in his off-duty time.



        Another answer suggests that the main question is a public safety one: whether the officer could be trusted to carry out his duties without bias. But that's not the only legitimate consideration for the government employer. The courts have repeatedly held that public perception of an agency is a legitimate concern, especially when it comes to agencies (like the police) whose job requires maintaining good relations with the community. In Pappas, the officer was assigned as a computer operator who had no contact with the public, but he was still a police officer whose speech had a high potential to undermine NYPD community relations.





        share






























          25














          In general, employers are free to fire you for your speech. The First Amendment does not apply to anyone except the government (other than a narrow set of circumstances where private parties act on behalf of the government or take on government roles, like when private universities employ campus police). If the officer was being fired from a job at a private company, this would not be an interesting question -- the answer would clearly be "no, there is no First Amendment claim here."



          What makes this interesting is that the government is involved. Unlike private employers, government agencies are bound by the First Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court held that this does restrict them in their role as employer and that they can't necessarily fire an employee for speech. Pickering imposes a balancing test, where the harm to the employee's First Amendment rights is weighed against the government's interest in efficient operation. Courts have given particular leeway to police departments punishing speech that would undermine public trust and confidence in the department. A police officer expressing racist views, even privately, can seriously hamper the effectiveness of the department if the speech gets linked back to them. For instance, see Pappas v. Giuliani, where the Second Circuit upheld the firing of an NYPD officer for anonymously mailing racist diatribes from home in his off-duty time.



          Another answer suggests that the main question is a public safety one: whether the officer could be trusted to carry out his duties without bias. But that's not the only legitimate consideration for the government employer. The courts have repeatedly held that public perception of an agency is a legitimate concern, especially when it comes to agencies (like the police) whose job requires maintaining good relations with the community. In Pappas, the officer was assigned as a computer operator who had no contact with the public, but he was still a police officer whose speech had a high potential to undermine NYPD community relations.





          share




























            25












            25








            25







            In general, employers are free to fire you for your speech. The First Amendment does not apply to anyone except the government (other than a narrow set of circumstances where private parties act on behalf of the government or take on government roles, like when private universities employ campus police). If the officer was being fired from a job at a private company, this would not be an interesting question -- the answer would clearly be "no, there is no First Amendment claim here."



            What makes this interesting is that the government is involved. Unlike private employers, government agencies are bound by the First Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court held that this does restrict them in their role as employer and that they can't necessarily fire an employee for speech. Pickering imposes a balancing test, where the harm to the employee's First Amendment rights is weighed against the government's interest in efficient operation. Courts have given particular leeway to police departments punishing speech that would undermine public trust and confidence in the department. A police officer expressing racist views, even privately, can seriously hamper the effectiveness of the department if the speech gets linked back to them. For instance, see Pappas v. Giuliani, where the Second Circuit upheld the firing of an NYPD officer for anonymously mailing racist diatribes from home in his off-duty time.



            Another answer suggests that the main question is a public safety one: whether the officer could be trusted to carry out his duties without bias. But that's not the only legitimate consideration for the government employer. The courts have repeatedly held that public perception of an agency is a legitimate concern, especially when it comes to agencies (like the police) whose job requires maintaining good relations with the community. In Pappas, the officer was assigned as a computer operator who had no contact with the public, but he was still a police officer whose speech had a high potential to undermine NYPD community relations.





            share













            In general, employers are free to fire you for your speech. The First Amendment does not apply to anyone except the government (other than a narrow set of circumstances where private parties act on behalf of the government or take on government roles, like when private universities employ campus police). If the officer was being fired from a job at a private company, this would not be an interesting question -- the answer would clearly be "no, there is no First Amendment claim here."



            What makes this interesting is that the government is involved. Unlike private employers, government agencies are bound by the First Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court held that this does restrict them in their role as employer and that they can't necessarily fire an employee for speech. Pickering imposes a balancing test, where the harm to the employee's First Amendment rights is weighed against the government's interest in efficient operation. Courts have given particular leeway to police departments punishing speech that would undermine public trust and confidence in the department. A police officer expressing racist views, even privately, can seriously hamper the effectiveness of the department if the speech gets linked back to them. For instance, see Pappas v. Giuliani, where the Second Circuit upheld the firing of an NYPD officer for anonymously mailing racist diatribes from home in his off-duty time.



            Another answer suggests that the main question is a public safety one: whether the officer could be trusted to carry out his duties without bias. But that's not the only legitimate consideration for the government employer. The courts have repeatedly held that public perception of an agency is a legitimate concern, especially when it comes to agencies (like the police) whose job requires maintaining good relations with the community. In Pappas, the officer was assigned as a computer operator who had no contact with the public, but he was still a police officer whose speech had a high potential to undermine NYPD community relations.






            share











            share


            share










            answered 14 hours ago









            cpastcpast

            14.1k1 gold badge28 silver badges63 bronze badges




            14.1k1 gold badge28 silver badges63 bronze badges




























                1














                A private employer absolutely can fire you for your speech, even speech off their property, as the First Amendment is a directive to the government. States can pass their own statutes to restrict termination for speech, and some may have.



                For the government, the answer is generally "no". But there could be a public safety exception in this situation, where the officer can no longer be trusted to carry out his duties without bias.






                share|improve this answer






























                  1














                  A private employer absolutely can fire you for your speech, even speech off their property, as the First Amendment is a directive to the government. States can pass their own statutes to restrict termination for speech, and some may have.



                  For the government, the answer is generally "no". But there could be a public safety exception in this situation, where the officer can no longer be trusted to carry out his duties without bias.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    A private employer absolutely can fire you for your speech, even speech off their property, as the First Amendment is a directive to the government. States can pass their own statutes to restrict termination for speech, and some may have.



                    For the government, the answer is generally "no". But there could be a public safety exception in this situation, where the officer can no longer be trusted to carry out his duties without bias.






                    share|improve this answer













                    A private employer absolutely can fire you for your speech, even speech off their property, as the First Amendment is a directive to the government. States can pass their own statutes to restrict termination for speech, and some may have.



                    For the government, the answer is generally "no". But there could be a public safety exception in this situation, where the officer can no longer be trusted to carry out his duties without bias.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 15 hours ago









                    zeroonezeroone

                    2443 bronze badges




                    2443 bronze badges


























                        0














                        The freedom of speech only protects you from the government prosecuting you for expressing your political opinions.



                        Even if your employer was the government, being fired it not persecution by the government. Getting tried in a court of law is persecution by the government.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor



                        Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.


























                          0














                          The freedom of speech only protects you from the government prosecuting you for expressing your political opinions.



                          Even if your employer was the government, being fired it not persecution by the government. Getting tried in a court of law is persecution by the government.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor



                          Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            The freedom of speech only protects you from the government prosecuting you for expressing your political opinions.



                            Even if your employer was the government, being fired it not persecution by the government. Getting tried in a court of law is persecution by the government.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor



                            Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            The freedom of speech only protects you from the government prosecuting you for expressing your political opinions.



                            Even if your employer was the government, being fired it not persecution by the government. Getting tried in a court of law is persecution by the government.







                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor



                            Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.








                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer






                            New contributor



                            Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.








                            answered 1 hour ago









                            Edwin BuckEdwin Buck

                            1012 bronze badges




                            1012 bronze badges




                            New contributor



                            Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.




                            New contributor




                            Edwin Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.



































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