Can you trip a breaker from a different circuit?Where in the breaker box should I terminate the neutral wire...
Is it ok if I haven't decided my research topic when I first meet with a potential phd advisor?
Why did the Soviet Union not "grant" Inner Mongolia to Mongolia after World War Two?
Do interval ratios take overtones into account or solely the fundamental frequency?
Neural Network vs regression
Can you trip a breaker from a different circuit?
One-digit products in a row of numbers
We are on WHV, my boyfriend was in a small collision, we are leaving in 2 weeks what happens if we don’t pay the damages?
I am not a pleasant sight
Is a PWM required for regenerative braking on a DC Motor?
Is there a concept of "peer review" in Rabbinical Judaism?
What should I consider when deciding whether to delay an exam?
How should I answer custom and border protection questions if I'm a returning citizen that hasn't been in the country for almost a decade?
Youtube not blocked by iptables
Why isn't there armor to protect from spells in the Potterverse?
Medic abilities
How can this Stack Exchange site have an animated favicon?
Another student has been assigned the same MSc thesis as mine (and already defended)
Duplicate Tuples in two different ways
Would you write key signatures for non-conventional scales?
Can my former employer sue me if I don't give them the photos I took (taking pictures was not part of my job description)?
"I will not" or "I don't" in the following context?
I reverse the source code, you reverse the input!
Why is volatility skew/smile for long term options flatter compare to short term options?
Convex hull in a discrete space
Can you trip a breaker from a different circuit?
Where in the breaker box should I terminate the neutral wire from my dryer circuit?Can having a bad grounding situation destroy a circuit breaker?Why is this switch box wired like a 3-way when there's no other switch?Help wiring timed fan switchWhy Does My Vacuum Trip My Circuit BreakerCircuit Breaker Trip - Identifying CulpritIn a double gang box with 3 wires & groundOutlet Change with 4 Hot WiresI'm wondering if these two things were allowed by the electrical Code in 1981 in California
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
Background
I had a wall outlet wired like the one below. I wanted to move it over about 4 feet, so I bought some electrical wire and used it to extend the existing wire.
()
As you can see, it was two wires that needed to be extended.
Here's how I spliced the wires:
Basically, I twisted the bare wires together, then pigtailed them, wrapped each pair in electrical tape, then electrical taped the bigger white/yellow line pairs together.
I bought a new, standard duplex outlet and wired it up so that one extension wire was wired to the top outlets and one was wired to the bottom. I pig-tailed their grounds together with a third bare wire and connected the bare wire like this:
Problem
Everything was working fine for a few hours and suddenly a breaker on a different circuit tripped, shutting off the lights in the adjacent hallway. The new outlet that I had just installed still worked just fine.
Originally, I didn't break the metal break-off tab on the new outlet. While troubleshooting this, I broke it, still experienced the problem, and now the bottom plug doesn't work while the top one does.
I also tried swapping breakers to eliminate a bad breaker as the cause, but that didn't help, either.
Questions
- Is it possible that my wiring job caused this other breaker to trip. If so, how?
- If it is due to my wiring job, what can I do to fix it?
Edit - Panel Pics
wiring circuit-breaker
migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago
This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.
|
show 13 more comments
Background
I had a wall outlet wired like the one below. I wanted to move it over about 4 feet, so I bought some electrical wire and used it to extend the existing wire.
()
As you can see, it was two wires that needed to be extended.
Here's how I spliced the wires:
Basically, I twisted the bare wires together, then pigtailed them, wrapped each pair in electrical tape, then electrical taped the bigger white/yellow line pairs together.
I bought a new, standard duplex outlet and wired it up so that one extension wire was wired to the top outlets and one was wired to the bottom. I pig-tailed their grounds together with a third bare wire and connected the bare wire like this:
Problem
Everything was working fine for a few hours and suddenly a breaker on a different circuit tripped, shutting off the lights in the adjacent hallway. The new outlet that I had just installed still worked just fine.
Originally, I didn't break the metal break-off tab on the new outlet. While troubleshooting this, I broke it, still experienced the problem, and now the bottom plug doesn't work while the top one does.
I also tried swapping breakers to eliminate a bad breaker as the cause, but that didn't help, either.
Questions
- Is it possible that my wiring job caused this other breaker to trip. If so, how?
- If it is due to my wiring job, what can I do to fix it?
Edit - Panel Pics
wiring circuit-breaker
migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago
This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
1
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
Background
I had a wall outlet wired like the one below. I wanted to move it over about 4 feet, so I bought some electrical wire and used it to extend the existing wire.
()
As you can see, it was two wires that needed to be extended.
Here's how I spliced the wires:
Basically, I twisted the bare wires together, then pigtailed them, wrapped each pair in electrical tape, then electrical taped the bigger white/yellow line pairs together.
I bought a new, standard duplex outlet and wired it up so that one extension wire was wired to the top outlets and one was wired to the bottom. I pig-tailed their grounds together with a third bare wire and connected the bare wire like this:
Problem
Everything was working fine for a few hours and suddenly a breaker on a different circuit tripped, shutting off the lights in the adjacent hallway. The new outlet that I had just installed still worked just fine.
Originally, I didn't break the metal break-off tab on the new outlet. While troubleshooting this, I broke it, still experienced the problem, and now the bottom plug doesn't work while the top one does.
I also tried swapping breakers to eliminate a bad breaker as the cause, but that didn't help, either.
Questions
- Is it possible that my wiring job caused this other breaker to trip. If so, how?
- If it is due to my wiring job, what can I do to fix it?
Edit - Panel Pics
wiring circuit-breaker
Background
I had a wall outlet wired like the one below. I wanted to move it over about 4 feet, so I bought some electrical wire and used it to extend the existing wire.
()
As you can see, it was two wires that needed to be extended.
Here's how I spliced the wires:
Basically, I twisted the bare wires together, then pigtailed them, wrapped each pair in electrical tape, then electrical taped the bigger white/yellow line pairs together.
I bought a new, standard duplex outlet and wired it up so that one extension wire was wired to the top outlets and one was wired to the bottom. I pig-tailed their grounds together with a third bare wire and connected the bare wire like this:
Problem
Everything was working fine for a few hours and suddenly a breaker on a different circuit tripped, shutting off the lights in the adjacent hallway. The new outlet that I had just installed still worked just fine.
Originally, I didn't break the metal break-off tab on the new outlet. While troubleshooting this, I broke it, still experienced the problem, and now the bottom plug doesn't work while the top one does.
I also tried swapping breakers to eliminate a bad breaker as the cause, but that didn't help, either.
Questions
- Is it possible that my wiring job caused this other breaker to trip. If so, how?
- If it is due to my wiring job, what can I do to fix it?
Edit - Panel Pics
wiring circuit-breaker
wiring circuit-breaker
edited 6 hours ago
mdrichardson
asked 10 hours ago
mdrichardsonmdrichardson
1112 bronze badges
1112 bronze badges
migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago
This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.
migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago
This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.
migrated from electronics.stackexchange.com 9 hours ago
This question came from our site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts.
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
1
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
1
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
1
1
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
1
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
I can't figure out the problem yet. Here's what I do know. And I have to save it because I can't visit chat without losing this.
The old junction box MUST remain
It is not legal to remove that junction box. You are required to make all splices inside junction boxes, and cannot bury them inside walls (splices or junction boxes). Every junction box cover must be reachable without use of tools of any kind. You can make your extension splices inside the box, whether it has a blank cover or a receptacle.
It can have a blank cover, unless...
You need a receptacle within 6' of any point on a wall
You need to follow this wall its entire length between thresholds, (including around corners) and make sure there is still an outlet within 6' of every point along the wall. So, within 6' of a threshold and every 12' thereafter. This rule is because standard lamps and appliances have 6' cords, and you need to be able to route the cord hugging the wall (no cutting corners).
If you didn't have that situation before, the old situation may be grandfathered (legal now since it was legal when installed or modified). The rule with grandfathering is you can't make things worse. So if any area of the wall lost coverage because of the move, then you need to retain the receptacle at the old position. (You can still have the new one).
Mechanical execution of work
The lower picture looks perfectly proper. Wires must be 6" long past the cable clamp, and stick out 3" beyond the wall surface; don't get any shorter than that.
2 circuits or not?
If the first photo is of your actual box, it indicates that all wires are feeding the same socket of the receptacle. That means we can exclude "2 circuits" or "split switched outlet". For sure, the two blacks in the old photo are spliced to each other via the outlet. Ditto the two whites.
This means only one circuit is in play (assuming there are not wiring defects elsewhere) and you only needed one cable, not two, to extend this circuit. The other cable is superfluous. At the old box, all blacks can be joined at the old box with a wire nut, and all whites ditto. That will also reduce wire fill count to a sensible number.
If you need a receptacle at the old box, either avoid using the receptacle as a splice and use a pigtail to attach to the receptacle. Or use a "screw-to-clamp" type receptacle which gives four wire points per side. Do not use backstabs (as in first picture), because backstabs cause nuisance problems, with opens or arc faults; but also, backstabs can't work with 12 AWG wire, which is your yellow cable there.
The box must be large enough
For instance it appears your old box will have
- four 14 AWG wires (judging by the backstabs) which take 2.00 cubic inches each
- four 12 AWG wires, 2.25 c.i. Each
- Pigtails are free
- a bunch of grounds (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- cable clamps (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- if you have a receptacle, 2 of the largest wire connected to it. (4.50 c.i. If yellow jacket #12 wire is involved, otherwise 4.00 if using #14 pigtails.
If you need more cubic inches, before grabbing the claw bar, google "surface conduit starter box". It's for launching surface conduit out of a flushmount box, but if you only use it for cubic inches, I won't tell :)
add a comment
|
Harper is absolutely correct that all junctions must be in a readily accessible box. This is both for safety and maintenance reasons - a junction hidden in a wall is both a fire hazard and potentially a headache for any potential future rewiring. The 6ft distance between receptacles is also required by code, but would only cause a fire hazard if it lead to a mess of extension cords being used (which is probably the cause for its addition to begin with, based on a lifetime of living in older houses that only had one receptacle per room).
I also recommend you twist your wire nuts more - the wires should visibly wrap around each other at least twice to ensure a reliably tight connection. Loose wires are a big headache, not to mention potential fire and shock hazards.
That metal tab on the side of your duplex receptacle is intended to connect the top and bottom receptacles in parallel. It only needs to be removed in the case that each receptacle has its own circuit, which is uncommon in residential wiring. That's why your bottom receptacle stopped working. You'll probably want to buy a new receptacle to avoid a mess of splicing.
However, to answer your question, I doubt that your wiring on one circuit caused another circuit to trip. I can't come up with a reason why that would occur. If swapping breakers didn't prevent the problem, it's probable that there's some sort of electrical fault happening on that circuit, or perhaps too much power is being drawn on it (is it only lights, or are there also receptacles on that circuit? If it's only lights, it's pretty unlikely that they're drawing too much power - but don't trust what the breaker box labels say, actually check to see if there are any receptacles not working while that breaker is tripped).
New contributor
add a comment
|
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "73"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/"u003ecc by-sa 4.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fdiy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f174930%2fcan-you-trip-a-breaker-from-a-different-circuit%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I can't figure out the problem yet. Here's what I do know. And I have to save it because I can't visit chat without losing this.
The old junction box MUST remain
It is not legal to remove that junction box. You are required to make all splices inside junction boxes, and cannot bury them inside walls (splices or junction boxes). Every junction box cover must be reachable without use of tools of any kind. You can make your extension splices inside the box, whether it has a blank cover or a receptacle.
It can have a blank cover, unless...
You need a receptacle within 6' of any point on a wall
You need to follow this wall its entire length between thresholds, (including around corners) and make sure there is still an outlet within 6' of every point along the wall. So, within 6' of a threshold and every 12' thereafter. This rule is because standard lamps and appliances have 6' cords, and you need to be able to route the cord hugging the wall (no cutting corners).
If you didn't have that situation before, the old situation may be grandfathered (legal now since it was legal when installed or modified). The rule with grandfathering is you can't make things worse. So if any area of the wall lost coverage because of the move, then you need to retain the receptacle at the old position. (You can still have the new one).
Mechanical execution of work
The lower picture looks perfectly proper. Wires must be 6" long past the cable clamp, and stick out 3" beyond the wall surface; don't get any shorter than that.
2 circuits or not?
If the first photo is of your actual box, it indicates that all wires are feeding the same socket of the receptacle. That means we can exclude "2 circuits" or "split switched outlet". For sure, the two blacks in the old photo are spliced to each other via the outlet. Ditto the two whites.
This means only one circuit is in play (assuming there are not wiring defects elsewhere) and you only needed one cable, not two, to extend this circuit. The other cable is superfluous. At the old box, all blacks can be joined at the old box with a wire nut, and all whites ditto. That will also reduce wire fill count to a sensible number.
If you need a receptacle at the old box, either avoid using the receptacle as a splice and use a pigtail to attach to the receptacle. Or use a "screw-to-clamp" type receptacle which gives four wire points per side. Do not use backstabs (as in first picture), because backstabs cause nuisance problems, with opens or arc faults; but also, backstabs can't work with 12 AWG wire, which is your yellow cable there.
The box must be large enough
For instance it appears your old box will have
- four 14 AWG wires (judging by the backstabs) which take 2.00 cubic inches each
- four 12 AWG wires, 2.25 c.i. Each
- Pigtails are free
- a bunch of grounds (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- cable clamps (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- if you have a receptacle, 2 of the largest wire connected to it. (4.50 c.i. If yellow jacket #12 wire is involved, otherwise 4.00 if using #14 pigtails.
If you need more cubic inches, before grabbing the claw bar, google "surface conduit starter box". It's for launching surface conduit out of a flushmount box, but if you only use it for cubic inches, I won't tell :)
add a comment
|
I can't figure out the problem yet. Here's what I do know. And I have to save it because I can't visit chat without losing this.
The old junction box MUST remain
It is not legal to remove that junction box. You are required to make all splices inside junction boxes, and cannot bury them inside walls (splices or junction boxes). Every junction box cover must be reachable without use of tools of any kind. You can make your extension splices inside the box, whether it has a blank cover or a receptacle.
It can have a blank cover, unless...
You need a receptacle within 6' of any point on a wall
You need to follow this wall its entire length between thresholds, (including around corners) and make sure there is still an outlet within 6' of every point along the wall. So, within 6' of a threshold and every 12' thereafter. This rule is because standard lamps and appliances have 6' cords, and you need to be able to route the cord hugging the wall (no cutting corners).
If you didn't have that situation before, the old situation may be grandfathered (legal now since it was legal when installed or modified). The rule with grandfathering is you can't make things worse. So if any area of the wall lost coverage because of the move, then you need to retain the receptacle at the old position. (You can still have the new one).
Mechanical execution of work
The lower picture looks perfectly proper. Wires must be 6" long past the cable clamp, and stick out 3" beyond the wall surface; don't get any shorter than that.
2 circuits or not?
If the first photo is of your actual box, it indicates that all wires are feeding the same socket of the receptacle. That means we can exclude "2 circuits" or "split switched outlet". For sure, the two blacks in the old photo are spliced to each other via the outlet. Ditto the two whites.
This means only one circuit is in play (assuming there are not wiring defects elsewhere) and you only needed one cable, not two, to extend this circuit. The other cable is superfluous. At the old box, all blacks can be joined at the old box with a wire nut, and all whites ditto. That will also reduce wire fill count to a sensible number.
If you need a receptacle at the old box, either avoid using the receptacle as a splice and use a pigtail to attach to the receptacle. Or use a "screw-to-clamp" type receptacle which gives four wire points per side. Do not use backstabs (as in first picture), because backstabs cause nuisance problems, with opens or arc faults; but also, backstabs can't work with 12 AWG wire, which is your yellow cable there.
The box must be large enough
For instance it appears your old box will have
- four 14 AWG wires (judging by the backstabs) which take 2.00 cubic inches each
- four 12 AWG wires, 2.25 c.i. Each
- Pigtails are free
- a bunch of grounds (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- cable clamps (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- if you have a receptacle, 2 of the largest wire connected to it. (4.50 c.i. If yellow jacket #12 wire is involved, otherwise 4.00 if using #14 pigtails.
If you need more cubic inches, before grabbing the claw bar, google "surface conduit starter box". It's for launching surface conduit out of a flushmount box, but if you only use it for cubic inches, I won't tell :)
add a comment
|
I can't figure out the problem yet. Here's what I do know. And I have to save it because I can't visit chat without losing this.
The old junction box MUST remain
It is not legal to remove that junction box. You are required to make all splices inside junction boxes, and cannot bury them inside walls (splices or junction boxes). Every junction box cover must be reachable without use of tools of any kind. You can make your extension splices inside the box, whether it has a blank cover or a receptacle.
It can have a blank cover, unless...
You need a receptacle within 6' of any point on a wall
You need to follow this wall its entire length between thresholds, (including around corners) and make sure there is still an outlet within 6' of every point along the wall. So, within 6' of a threshold and every 12' thereafter. This rule is because standard lamps and appliances have 6' cords, and you need to be able to route the cord hugging the wall (no cutting corners).
If you didn't have that situation before, the old situation may be grandfathered (legal now since it was legal when installed or modified). The rule with grandfathering is you can't make things worse. So if any area of the wall lost coverage because of the move, then you need to retain the receptacle at the old position. (You can still have the new one).
Mechanical execution of work
The lower picture looks perfectly proper. Wires must be 6" long past the cable clamp, and stick out 3" beyond the wall surface; don't get any shorter than that.
2 circuits or not?
If the first photo is of your actual box, it indicates that all wires are feeding the same socket of the receptacle. That means we can exclude "2 circuits" or "split switched outlet". For sure, the two blacks in the old photo are spliced to each other via the outlet. Ditto the two whites.
This means only one circuit is in play (assuming there are not wiring defects elsewhere) and you only needed one cable, not two, to extend this circuit. The other cable is superfluous. At the old box, all blacks can be joined at the old box with a wire nut, and all whites ditto. That will also reduce wire fill count to a sensible number.
If you need a receptacle at the old box, either avoid using the receptacle as a splice and use a pigtail to attach to the receptacle. Or use a "screw-to-clamp" type receptacle which gives four wire points per side. Do not use backstabs (as in first picture), because backstabs cause nuisance problems, with opens or arc faults; but also, backstabs can't work with 12 AWG wire, which is your yellow cable there.
The box must be large enough
For instance it appears your old box will have
- four 14 AWG wires (judging by the backstabs) which take 2.00 cubic inches each
- four 12 AWG wires, 2.25 c.i. Each
- Pigtails are free
- a bunch of grounds (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- cable clamps (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- if you have a receptacle, 2 of the largest wire connected to it. (4.50 c.i. If yellow jacket #12 wire is involved, otherwise 4.00 if using #14 pigtails.
If you need more cubic inches, before grabbing the claw bar, google "surface conduit starter box". It's for launching surface conduit out of a flushmount box, but if you only use it for cubic inches, I won't tell :)
I can't figure out the problem yet. Here's what I do know. And I have to save it because I can't visit chat without losing this.
The old junction box MUST remain
It is not legal to remove that junction box. You are required to make all splices inside junction boxes, and cannot bury them inside walls (splices or junction boxes). Every junction box cover must be reachable without use of tools of any kind. You can make your extension splices inside the box, whether it has a blank cover or a receptacle.
It can have a blank cover, unless...
You need a receptacle within 6' of any point on a wall
You need to follow this wall its entire length between thresholds, (including around corners) and make sure there is still an outlet within 6' of every point along the wall. So, within 6' of a threshold and every 12' thereafter. This rule is because standard lamps and appliances have 6' cords, and you need to be able to route the cord hugging the wall (no cutting corners).
If you didn't have that situation before, the old situation may be grandfathered (legal now since it was legal when installed or modified). The rule with grandfathering is you can't make things worse. So if any area of the wall lost coverage because of the move, then you need to retain the receptacle at the old position. (You can still have the new one).
Mechanical execution of work
The lower picture looks perfectly proper. Wires must be 6" long past the cable clamp, and stick out 3" beyond the wall surface; don't get any shorter than that.
2 circuits or not?
If the first photo is of your actual box, it indicates that all wires are feeding the same socket of the receptacle. That means we can exclude "2 circuits" or "split switched outlet". For sure, the two blacks in the old photo are spliced to each other via the outlet. Ditto the two whites.
This means only one circuit is in play (assuming there are not wiring defects elsewhere) and you only needed one cable, not two, to extend this circuit. The other cable is superfluous. At the old box, all blacks can be joined at the old box with a wire nut, and all whites ditto. That will also reduce wire fill count to a sensible number.
If you need a receptacle at the old box, either avoid using the receptacle as a splice and use a pigtail to attach to the receptacle. Or use a "screw-to-clamp" type receptacle which gives four wire points per side. Do not use backstabs (as in first picture), because backstabs cause nuisance problems, with opens or arc faults; but also, backstabs can't work with 12 AWG wire, which is your yellow cable there.
The box must be large enough
For instance it appears your old box will have
- four 14 AWG wires (judging by the backstabs) which take 2.00 cubic inches each
- four 12 AWG wires, 2.25 c.i. Each
- Pigtails are free
- a bunch of grounds (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- cable clamps (which count as 1 of the largest wire) so 2.25 c.i.
- if you have a receptacle, 2 of the largest wire connected to it. (4.50 c.i. If yellow jacket #12 wire is involved, otherwise 4.00 if using #14 pigtails.
If you need more cubic inches, before grabbing the claw bar, google "surface conduit starter box". It's for launching surface conduit out of a flushmount box, but if you only use it for cubic inches, I won't tell :)
answered 7 hours ago
HarperHarper
97.9k7 gold badges72 silver badges202 bronze badges
97.9k7 gold badges72 silver badges202 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Harper is absolutely correct that all junctions must be in a readily accessible box. This is both for safety and maintenance reasons - a junction hidden in a wall is both a fire hazard and potentially a headache for any potential future rewiring. The 6ft distance between receptacles is also required by code, but would only cause a fire hazard if it lead to a mess of extension cords being used (which is probably the cause for its addition to begin with, based on a lifetime of living in older houses that only had one receptacle per room).
I also recommend you twist your wire nuts more - the wires should visibly wrap around each other at least twice to ensure a reliably tight connection. Loose wires are a big headache, not to mention potential fire and shock hazards.
That metal tab on the side of your duplex receptacle is intended to connect the top and bottom receptacles in parallel. It only needs to be removed in the case that each receptacle has its own circuit, which is uncommon in residential wiring. That's why your bottom receptacle stopped working. You'll probably want to buy a new receptacle to avoid a mess of splicing.
However, to answer your question, I doubt that your wiring on one circuit caused another circuit to trip. I can't come up with a reason why that would occur. If swapping breakers didn't prevent the problem, it's probable that there's some sort of electrical fault happening on that circuit, or perhaps too much power is being drawn on it (is it only lights, or are there also receptacles on that circuit? If it's only lights, it's pretty unlikely that they're drawing too much power - but don't trust what the breaker box labels say, actually check to see if there are any receptacles not working while that breaker is tripped).
New contributor
add a comment
|
Harper is absolutely correct that all junctions must be in a readily accessible box. This is both for safety and maintenance reasons - a junction hidden in a wall is both a fire hazard and potentially a headache for any potential future rewiring. The 6ft distance between receptacles is also required by code, but would only cause a fire hazard if it lead to a mess of extension cords being used (which is probably the cause for its addition to begin with, based on a lifetime of living in older houses that only had one receptacle per room).
I also recommend you twist your wire nuts more - the wires should visibly wrap around each other at least twice to ensure a reliably tight connection. Loose wires are a big headache, not to mention potential fire and shock hazards.
That metal tab on the side of your duplex receptacle is intended to connect the top and bottom receptacles in parallel. It only needs to be removed in the case that each receptacle has its own circuit, which is uncommon in residential wiring. That's why your bottom receptacle stopped working. You'll probably want to buy a new receptacle to avoid a mess of splicing.
However, to answer your question, I doubt that your wiring on one circuit caused another circuit to trip. I can't come up with a reason why that would occur. If swapping breakers didn't prevent the problem, it's probable that there's some sort of electrical fault happening on that circuit, or perhaps too much power is being drawn on it (is it only lights, or are there also receptacles on that circuit? If it's only lights, it's pretty unlikely that they're drawing too much power - but don't trust what the breaker box labels say, actually check to see if there are any receptacles not working while that breaker is tripped).
New contributor
add a comment
|
Harper is absolutely correct that all junctions must be in a readily accessible box. This is both for safety and maintenance reasons - a junction hidden in a wall is both a fire hazard and potentially a headache for any potential future rewiring. The 6ft distance between receptacles is also required by code, but would only cause a fire hazard if it lead to a mess of extension cords being used (which is probably the cause for its addition to begin with, based on a lifetime of living in older houses that only had one receptacle per room).
I also recommend you twist your wire nuts more - the wires should visibly wrap around each other at least twice to ensure a reliably tight connection. Loose wires are a big headache, not to mention potential fire and shock hazards.
That metal tab on the side of your duplex receptacle is intended to connect the top and bottom receptacles in parallel. It only needs to be removed in the case that each receptacle has its own circuit, which is uncommon in residential wiring. That's why your bottom receptacle stopped working. You'll probably want to buy a new receptacle to avoid a mess of splicing.
However, to answer your question, I doubt that your wiring on one circuit caused another circuit to trip. I can't come up with a reason why that would occur. If swapping breakers didn't prevent the problem, it's probable that there's some sort of electrical fault happening on that circuit, or perhaps too much power is being drawn on it (is it only lights, or are there also receptacles on that circuit? If it's only lights, it's pretty unlikely that they're drawing too much power - but don't trust what the breaker box labels say, actually check to see if there are any receptacles not working while that breaker is tripped).
New contributor
Harper is absolutely correct that all junctions must be in a readily accessible box. This is both for safety and maintenance reasons - a junction hidden in a wall is both a fire hazard and potentially a headache for any potential future rewiring. The 6ft distance between receptacles is also required by code, but would only cause a fire hazard if it lead to a mess of extension cords being used (which is probably the cause for its addition to begin with, based on a lifetime of living in older houses that only had one receptacle per room).
I also recommend you twist your wire nuts more - the wires should visibly wrap around each other at least twice to ensure a reliably tight connection. Loose wires are a big headache, not to mention potential fire and shock hazards.
That metal tab on the side of your duplex receptacle is intended to connect the top and bottom receptacles in parallel. It only needs to be removed in the case that each receptacle has its own circuit, which is uncommon in residential wiring. That's why your bottom receptacle stopped working. You'll probably want to buy a new receptacle to avoid a mess of splicing.
However, to answer your question, I doubt that your wiring on one circuit caused another circuit to trip. I can't come up with a reason why that would occur. If swapping breakers didn't prevent the problem, it's probable that there's some sort of electrical fault happening on that circuit, or perhaps too much power is being drawn on it (is it only lights, or are there also receptacles on that circuit? If it's only lights, it's pretty unlikely that they're drawing too much power - but don't trust what the breaker box labels say, actually check to see if there are any receptacles not working while that breaker is tripped).
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
NateNate
213 bronze badges
213 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fdiy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f174930%2fcan-you-trip-a-breaker-from-a-different-circuit%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
if you had shorted something it would not take a few hours to happen, that is good. Now, was there something connected to the outlet during these "few hours" before the other breaker tripped? Also, if the breakers were connected in series (for some reason) the outlet would stop working, so it seems that they are not related a all.
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
Wiring in one circuit would not cause a breaker in another circuit to trip unless the two circuits are not actually two separate circuits. It seems unlikely that you could have made an error that caused the problem, unless you have not revealed everything or disturbed something without realizing it. Could you have pulled on some other wiring or nicked some other wiring while cutting the new hole? You should probably open up all of the boxes and inspect the bad circuit.
– Charles Cowie
9 hours ago
Is it just the circuit with the lights for the hallway that trip? Could it be tipping due to a current leakage from one of the ground or neutral conductors?
– jDAQ
9 hours ago
1
I'm concerned if you eliminated an outlet position you may have created a regulatory issue as well as a buried-splice issue. Do any of the circuit breakers involved have a "Test" button?
– Harper
8 hours ago
1
It sounds like the GFCI is downline. Breaking off tab(s) would have severed power to it.
– Harper
7 hours ago