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How do we know neutrons have no charge?


What do we know about the interactions between the protons and neutrons in a nucleus?Relativistic explanation of attraction between two parallel currentsHow are neutrons made?Why do we see positive charges move if protons do not move in a solid conductor?Another objection to Feynman's moving infinite sheet of charge “radiator”Electromagnet as a consequence of special relativity






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}







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$begingroup$


We observe that protons are positively charged, and that neutrons are strongly attracted to them, much as we would expect of oppositely charged particles. We then describe that attraction as non-electromagnetic "strong force" attraction. Why posit an ersatz force as responsible, rather than describing neutrons as negatively charged based on their behavior?



I keep running up against circular and tautological reasoning from the laity in explanation of this (i.e. "We know they aren't charged because we attribute their attraction to a different force, and we ascribe this behavior to a different force because we know they aren't charged").



I'm looking for an empirically-based (vs. purely theoretical/mathematical) explanation.



Can someone help?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$


    We observe that protons are positively charged, and that neutrons are strongly attracted to them, much as we would expect of oppositely charged particles. We then describe that attraction as non-electromagnetic "strong force" attraction. Why posit an ersatz force as responsible, rather than describing neutrons as negatively charged based on their behavior?



    I keep running up against circular and tautological reasoning from the laity in explanation of this (i.e. "We know they aren't charged because we attribute their attraction to a different force, and we ascribe this behavior to a different force because we know they aren't charged").



    I'm looking for an empirically-based (vs. purely theoretical/mathematical) explanation.



    Can someone help?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$

















      3












      3








      3


      1



      $begingroup$


      We observe that protons are positively charged, and that neutrons are strongly attracted to them, much as we would expect of oppositely charged particles. We then describe that attraction as non-electromagnetic "strong force" attraction. Why posit an ersatz force as responsible, rather than describing neutrons as negatively charged based on their behavior?



      I keep running up against circular and tautological reasoning from the laity in explanation of this (i.e. "We know they aren't charged because we attribute their attraction to a different force, and we ascribe this behavior to a different force because we know they aren't charged").



      I'm looking for an empirically-based (vs. purely theoretical/mathematical) explanation.



      Can someone help?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      We observe that protons are positively charged, and that neutrons are strongly attracted to them, much as we would expect of oppositely charged particles. We then describe that attraction as non-electromagnetic "strong force" attraction. Why posit an ersatz force as responsible, rather than describing neutrons as negatively charged based on their behavior?



      I keep running up against circular and tautological reasoning from the laity in explanation of this (i.e. "We know they aren't charged because we attribute their attraction to a different force, and we ascribe this behavior to a different force because we know they aren't charged").



      I'm looking for an empirically-based (vs. purely theoretical/mathematical) explanation.



      Can someone help?







      electromagnetism neutrons protons baryons






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      edited 6 hours ago









      Ben Crowell

      60.7k6 gold badges179 silver badges343 bronze badges




      60.7k6 gold badges179 silver badges343 bronze badges










      asked 9 hours ago









      MacThuleMacThule

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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          5














          $begingroup$

          Free neutrons in flight are not deflected by electric fields. Objects which are not deflected by electric fields are electrically neutral.



          The energy of the strong proton-neutron interaction varies with distance in a different way than the energy in an electrical interaction. In an interaction between two electrical charges, the potential energy varies with distance like $1/r$. In the strong interaction, the energy varies like $e^{-r/r_0}/r$, where the range parameter $r_0$ is related to the mass of the pion. This structure means that the strong interaction effectively shuts off at distances much larger than $r_0$, and explains why strongly-bound nuclei are more compact than electrically-bound atoms.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$











          • 2




            $begingroup$
            As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
            $endgroup$
            – StephenG
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
            $endgroup$
            – JEB
            7 hours ago



















          1














          $begingroup$

          Suppose that the strong nuclear force were instead caused by Coulomb interactions. Since we know how strong the binding energies are (of the order of $sim 1text{MeV}$, as can be gleaned by say, looking at a table of alpha particle energies) and how far apart the nucleons are (about a proton radius, or $a_psim1text{fm}$) we know how charged the neutrons must be.



          A quick estimate is given by letting the charge on the neutron be $-Ze$ then the binding energy is of order:



          $$ frac{Ze^2}{4 pi epsilon_0 a_p} sim 1text{MeV}$$



          This gives $Z sim 0.7$ which is just ludicrously large and would have been noticed in experiments of neutron paths in electric fields as noted in @rob's answer.



          Which is to say: the direct experimental limit on the charge of the neutron is low enough that the electrostatic binding energy cannot account for the nuclear binding energy.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$























            0














            $begingroup$

            As Richard Feynman pointed out in his lectures "The Character of Physical Law", the ultimate test to decide whether or not a theory is correct is the experiment. Rob correctly stated there is strong evidence suggesting the null interaction between a neutron and some external electric influence. Measurements about masses and electric charges of several atomic components have been made with increasing accuracy, with Robert Millikan's oil drop experiment and others like it (Wilson's cloud chamber) being reasonably convincing about the "granular" nature of electric charge.



            As the accuracy began to improve, it was possible to test such hypothesis as the compound nature of an atom nucleus, so that borrowing from chemistry the concept of isotope, experiments gave strength to the proposal of the neutron as a "companion" of the proton inside the nucleus. Further hypothesis made with those new considerations were experimentally proven to be correct, so there was more and more evidence to think of the neutron as a particle with no net electric charge.



            There is no reason to take that fact as an axiom, however; as Einstein said once, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong". Until now, the neutral behavior of the neutron has proven to be right.






            share|cite|improve this answer








            New contributor



            Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





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              3 Answers
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              3 Answers
              3






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              active

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              active

              oldest

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              5














              $begingroup$

              Free neutrons in flight are not deflected by electric fields. Objects which are not deflected by electric fields are electrically neutral.



              The energy of the strong proton-neutron interaction varies with distance in a different way than the energy in an electrical interaction. In an interaction between two electrical charges, the potential energy varies with distance like $1/r$. In the strong interaction, the energy varies like $e^{-r/r_0}/r$, where the range parameter $r_0$ is related to the mass of the pion. This structure means that the strong interaction effectively shuts off at distances much larger than $r_0$, and explains why strongly-bound nuclei are more compact than electrically-bound atoms.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$











              • 2




                $begingroup$
                As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
                $endgroup$
                – StephenG
                8 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
                $endgroup$
                – JEB
                7 hours ago
















              5














              $begingroup$

              Free neutrons in flight are not deflected by electric fields. Objects which are not deflected by electric fields are electrically neutral.



              The energy of the strong proton-neutron interaction varies with distance in a different way than the energy in an electrical interaction. In an interaction between two electrical charges, the potential energy varies with distance like $1/r$. In the strong interaction, the energy varies like $e^{-r/r_0}/r$, where the range parameter $r_0$ is related to the mass of the pion. This structure means that the strong interaction effectively shuts off at distances much larger than $r_0$, and explains why strongly-bound nuclei are more compact than electrically-bound atoms.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$











              • 2




                $begingroup$
                As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
                $endgroup$
                – StephenG
                8 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
                $endgroup$
                – JEB
                7 hours ago














              5














              5










              5







              $begingroup$

              Free neutrons in flight are not deflected by electric fields. Objects which are not deflected by electric fields are electrically neutral.



              The energy of the strong proton-neutron interaction varies with distance in a different way than the energy in an electrical interaction. In an interaction between two electrical charges, the potential energy varies with distance like $1/r$. In the strong interaction, the energy varies like $e^{-r/r_0}/r$, where the range parameter $r_0$ is related to the mass of the pion. This structure means that the strong interaction effectively shuts off at distances much larger than $r_0$, and explains why strongly-bound nuclei are more compact than electrically-bound atoms.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              Free neutrons in flight are not deflected by electric fields. Objects which are not deflected by electric fields are electrically neutral.



              The energy of the strong proton-neutron interaction varies with distance in a different way than the energy in an electrical interaction. In an interaction between two electrical charges, the potential energy varies with distance like $1/r$. In the strong interaction, the energy varies like $e^{-r/r_0}/r$, where the range parameter $r_0$ is related to the mass of the pion. This structure means that the strong interaction effectively shuts off at distances much larger than $r_0$, and explains why strongly-bound nuclei are more compact than electrically-bound atoms.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 8 hours ago









              robrob

              43.7k10 gold badges84 silver badges179 bronze badges




              43.7k10 gold badges84 silver badges179 bronze badges











              • 2




                $begingroup$
                As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
                $endgroup$
                – StephenG
                8 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
                $endgroup$
                – JEB
                7 hours ago














              • 2




                $begingroup$
                As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
                $endgroup$
                – StephenG
                8 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
                $endgroup$
                – JEB
                7 hours ago








              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
              $endgroup$
              – StephenG
              8 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              As Wikipedia points out the experimental upper limit for neutron electric charge is below the experimental error margin - effectively as close as makes no difference to zero in experimental terms. The maximum charge is of the order of $10^{-22}$ in units of electron charge.
              $endgroup$
              – StephenG
              8 hours ago












              $begingroup$
              @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
              $endgroup$
              – JEB
              7 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              @StephenG which is $-60e$ per mole. Not much.
              $endgroup$
              – JEB
              7 hours ago













              1














              $begingroup$

              Suppose that the strong nuclear force were instead caused by Coulomb interactions. Since we know how strong the binding energies are (of the order of $sim 1text{MeV}$, as can be gleaned by say, looking at a table of alpha particle energies) and how far apart the nucleons are (about a proton radius, or $a_psim1text{fm}$) we know how charged the neutrons must be.



              A quick estimate is given by letting the charge on the neutron be $-Ze$ then the binding energy is of order:



              $$ frac{Ze^2}{4 pi epsilon_0 a_p} sim 1text{MeV}$$



              This gives $Z sim 0.7$ which is just ludicrously large and would have been noticed in experiments of neutron paths in electric fields as noted in @rob's answer.



              Which is to say: the direct experimental limit on the charge of the neutron is low enough that the electrostatic binding energy cannot account for the nuclear binding energy.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$




















                1














                $begingroup$

                Suppose that the strong nuclear force were instead caused by Coulomb interactions. Since we know how strong the binding energies are (of the order of $sim 1text{MeV}$, as can be gleaned by say, looking at a table of alpha particle energies) and how far apart the nucleons are (about a proton radius, or $a_psim1text{fm}$) we know how charged the neutrons must be.



                A quick estimate is given by letting the charge on the neutron be $-Ze$ then the binding energy is of order:



                $$ frac{Ze^2}{4 pi epsilon_0 a_p} sim 1text{MeV}$$



                This gives $Z sim 0.7$ which is just ludicrously large and would have been noticed in experiments of neutron paths in electric fields as noted in @rob's answer.



                Which is to say: the direct experimental limit on the charge of the neutron is low enough that the electrostatic binding energy cannot account for the nuclear binding energy.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  1














                  1










                  1







                  $begingroup$

                  Suppose that the strong nuclear force were instead caused by Coulomb interactions. Since we know how strong the binding energies are (of the order of $sim 1text{MeV}$, as can be gleaned by say, looking at a table of alpha particle energies) and how far apart the nucleons are (about a proton radius, or $a_psim1text{fm}$) we know how charged the neutrons must be.



                  A quick estimate is given by letting the charge on the neutron be $-Ze$ then the binding energy is of order:



                  $$ frac{Ze^2}{4 pi epsilon_0 a_p} sim 1text{MeV}$$



                  This gives $Z sim 0.7$ which is just ludicrously large and would have been noticed in experiments of neutron paths in electric fields as noted in @rob's answer.



                  Which is to say: the direct experimental limit on the charge of the neutron is low enough that the electrostatic binding energy cannot account for the nuclear binding energy.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Suppose that the strong nuclear force were instead caused by Coulomb interactions. Since we know how strong the binding energies are (of the order of $sim 1text{MeV}$, as can be gleaned by say, looking at a table of alpha particle energies) and how far apart the nucleons are (about a proton radius, or $a_psim1text{fm}$) we know how charged the neutrons must be.



                  A quick estimate is given by letting the charge on the neutron be $-Ze$ then the binding energy is of order:



                  $$ frac{Ze^2}{4 pi epsilon_0 a_p} sim 1text{MeV}$$



                  This gives $Z sim 0.7$ which is just ludicrously large and would have been noticed in experiments of neutron paths in electric fields as noted in @rob's answer.



                  Which is to say: the direct experimental limit on the charge of the neutron is low enough that the electrostatic binding energy cannot account for the nuclear binding energy.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 5 hours ago









                  jacob1729jacob1729

                  1,3466 silver badges17 bronze badges




                  1,3466 silver badges17 bronze badges


























                      0














                      $begingroup$

                      As Richard Feynman pointed out in his lectures "The Character of Physical Law", the ultimate test to decide whether or not a theory is correct is the experiment. Rob correctly stated there is strong evidence suggesting the null interaction between a neutron and some external electric influence. Measurements about masses and electric charges of several atomic components have been made with increasing accuracy, with Robert Millikan's oil drop experiment and others like it (Wilson's cloud chamber) being reasonably convincing about the "granular" nature of electric charge.



                      As the accuracy began to improve, it was possible to test such hypothesis as the compound nature of an atom nucleus, so that borrowing from chemistry the concept of isotope, experiments gave strength to the proposal of the neutron as a "companion" of the proton inside the nucleus. Further hypothesis made with those new considerations were experimentally proven to be correct, so there was more and more evidence to think of the neutron as a particle with no net electric charge.



                      There is no reason to take that fact as an axiom, however; as Einstein said once, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong". Until now, the neutral behavior of the neutron has proven to be right.






                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      New contributor



                      Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                      $endgroup$




















                        0














                        $begingroup$

                        As Richard Feynman pointed out in his lectures "The Character of Physical Law", the ultimate test to decide whether or not a theory is correct is the experiment. Rob correctly stated there is strong evidence suggesting the null interaction between a neutron and some external electric influence. Measurements about masses and electric charges of several atomic components have been made with increasing accuracy, with Robert Millikan's oil drop experiment and others like it (Wilson's cloud chamber) being reasonably convincing about the "granular" nature of electric charge.



                        As the accuracy began to improve, it was possible to test such hypothesis as the compound nature of an atom nucleus, so that borrowing from chemistry the concept of isotope, experiments gave strength to the proposal of the neutron as a "companion" of the proton inside the nucleus. Further hypothesis made with those new considerations were experimentally proven to be correct, so there was more and more evidence to think of the neutron as a particle with no net electric charge.



                        There is no reason to take that fact as an axiom, however; as Einstein said once, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong". Until now, the neutral behavior of the neutron has proven to be right.






                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        New contributor



                        Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





                        $endgroup$


















                          0














                          0










                          0







                          $begingroup$

                          As Richard Feynman pointed out in his lectures "The Character of Physical Law", the ultimate test to decide whether or not a theory is correct is the experiment. Rob correctly stated there is strong evidence suggesting the null interaction between a neutron and some external electric influence. Measurements about masses and electric charges of several atomic components have been made with increasing accuracy, with Robert Millikan's oil drop experiment and others like it (Wilson's cloud chamber) being reasonably convincing about the "granular" nature of electric charge.



                          As the accuracy began to improve, it was possible to test such hypothesis as the compound nature of an atom nucleus, so that borrowing from chemistry the concept of isotope, experiments gave strength to the proposal of the neutron as a "companion" of the proton inside the nucleus. Further hypothesis made with those new considerations were experimentally proven to be correct, so there was more and more evidence to think of the neutron as a particle with no net electric charge.



                          There is no reason to take that fact as an axiom, however; as Einstein said once, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong". Until now, the neutral behavior of the neutron has proven to be right.






                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor



                          Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          $endgroup$



                          As Richard Feynman pointed out in his lectures "The Character of Physical Law", the ultimate test to decide whether or not a theory is correct is the experiment. Rob correctly stated there is strong evidence suggesting the null interaction between a neutron and some external electric influence. Measurements about masses and electric charges of several atomic components have been made with increasing accuracy, with Robert Millikan's oil drop experiment and others like it (Wilson's cloud chamber) being reasonably convincing about the "granular" nature of electric charge.



                          As the accuracy began to improve, it was possible to test such hypothesis as the compound nature of an atom nucleus, so that borrowing from chemistry the concept of isotope, experiments gave strength to the proposal of the neutron as a "companion" of the proton inside the nucleus. Further hypothesis made with those new considerations were experimentally proven to be correct, so there was more and more evidence to think of the neutron as a particle with no net electric charge.



                          There is no reason to take that fact as an axiom, however; as Einstein said once, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong". Until now, the neutral behavior of the neutron has proven to be right.







                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor



                          Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer






                          New contributor



                          Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.








                          answered 7 hours ago









                          JuanJuan

                          1




                          1




                          New contributor



                          Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




                          New contributor




                          Juan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.




































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