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Diagnosing instant circuit breaker tripping, with nothing connected


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1

















I had a previous question regarding an AC, but now that I have disconnected the AC and the problem remains, I want to diagnose this problem a bit more.



First step was seeing if this specific breaker trips by itself. With all other breakers opened on the main panel, this one lone breaker trips.



I then turned off the main power, the breaker closes fine. The moment I flip on the main breaker (with all others opened), this one trips.



With main breaker opened, along with all other breakers opened (off), here are the measurements:



Specific breaker opened:



Live-Neutral:   20,000 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 20,000 Ω


Specific breaker closed:



Live-Neutral:     400 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 4,000 Ω


For the sake of learning about electrical problems, what would be the potential problems that can cause this? Or is my diagnosis not enough? This circuit dedicated to an A/C has been working for about 3 months. It tripped one time before and I just reset it, not sure what the problem was, but now it has tripped a second time and does not reset.










share|improve this question






















  • 2





    Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

    – JACK
    4 hours ago


















1

















I had a previous question regarding an AC, but now that I have disconnected the AC and the problem remains, I want to diagnose this problem a bit more.



First step was seeing if this specific breaker trips by itself. With all other breakers opened on the main panel, this one lone breaker trips.



I then turned off the main power, the breaker closes fine. The moment I flip on the main breaker (with all others opened), this one trips.



With main breaker opened, along with all other breakers opened (off), here are the measurements:



Specific breaker opened:



Live-Neutral:   20,000 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 20,000 Ω


Specific breaker closed:



Live-Neutral:     400 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 4,000 Ω


For the sake of learning about electrical problems, what would be the potential problems that can cause this? Or is my diagnosis not enough? This circuit dedicated to an A/C has been working for about 3 months. It tripped one time before and I just reset it, not sure what the problem was, but now it has tripped a second time and does not reset.










share|improve this question






















  • 2





    Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

    – JACK
    4 hours ago














1












1








1








I had a previous question regarding an AC, but now that I have disconnected the AC and the problem remains, I want to diagnose this problem a bit more.



First step was seeing if this specific breaker trips by itself. With all other breakers opened on the main panel, this one lone breaker trips.



I then turned off the main power, the breaker closes fine. The moment I flip on the main breaker (with all others opened), this one trips.



With main breaker opened, along with all other breakers opened (off), here are the measurements:



Specific breaker opened:



Live-Neutral:   20,000 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 20,000 Ω


Specific breaker closed:



Live-Neutral:     400 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 4,000 Ω


For the sake of learning about electrical problems, what would be the potential problems that can cause this? Or is my diagnosis not enough? This circuit dedicated to an A/C has been working for about 3 months. It tripped one time before and I just reset it, not sure what the problem was, but now it has tripped a second time and does not reset.










share|improve this question















I had a previous question regarding an AC, but now that I have disconnected the AC and the problem remains, I want to diagnose this problem a bit more.



First step was seeing if this specific breaker trips by itself. With all other breakers opened on the main panel, this one lone breaker trips.



I then turned off the main power, the breaker closes fine. The moment I flip on the main breaker (with all others opened), this one trips.



With main breaker opened, along with all other breakers opened (off), here are the measurements:



Specific breaker opened:



Live-Neutral:   20,000 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 20,000 Ω


Specific breaker closed:



Live-Neutral:     400 Ω
Live-Ground: 4,000 Ω
Neutral-Ground: 4,000 Ω


For the sake of learning about electrical problems, what would be the potential problems that can cause this? Or is my diagnosis not enough? This circuit dedicated to an A/C has been working for about 3 months. It tripped one time before and I just reset it, not sure what the problem was, but now it has tripped a second time and does not reset.







circuit-breaker






share|improve this question














share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 8 hours ago









NelsonNelson

1106 bronze badges




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  • 2





    Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

    – JACK
    4 hours ago














  • 2





    Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

    – JACK
    4 hours ago








2




2





Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

– JACK
4 hours ago





Remove the two wires going to the circuit breaker. Now try to reset the breaker..... if it trips, bad breaker... if it holds, probably a short in the wiring.

– JACK
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2


















I'm assuming you made your measurements with nothing connected to the affected outlet. In that case there is a fault somewhere on that circuit and the Live-Neutral reading shows that.



The next step is to remove the outlet itself from the load-end of the circuit and see if anything changes. If so, you should replace the outlet itself.



If not, then the fault is in the wiring and you'll need to trace the circuit from end to end and find the problem.



Have you done any construction lately where a fastener might have been driven through the wire? Are there any junction boxes on that circuit where a fault might have developed? Pay particular attention to where the wire enters and exits boxes and bends around obstructions.



It's uncommon for a wire to just develop a fault all on its own unless it was sized improperly and was overloaded. Check that the wire size matches the load and the breaker rating.



In answer to your point in the comment, I may have misunderstood where you were taking your measurements. But it's also possible that the breaker itself is defective. You might try another one and see if that resolves the issue.






share|improve this answer





























  • Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago











  • Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago





















1


















Here's what you're supposed to have.



Live to neutral: some value of resistance depending on your load. Don't be surprised if the figure doesn't strictly follow Ohm's Law; many devices have their effective resistance change after they warm up. If there are no loads on the circuit, hot-neutral should be infinity ohms.



Live to ground/earth: this should always be infinity ohms if the breaker is switched off. If it is not, you have a ground fault on either hot or neutral. If hot-neutral is infinity ohms, then a lesser reading is definitely a ground fault.



Neutral to ground/earth: should be zero ohms if the proper neutral-ground bond is connected, and should be infinity ohms if the hot and neutral wire are lifted off the breaker or neutral bus.



Non-infinite resistance (conductivity) between hot and neutral is normal if any loads are attached. However, if you disconnect hot/neutral from the panel, there must always be infinity ohms/zero conductance between hot/neutral and ground. If there is conductance between hot/neutral and ground, then you have a problem that you must fix.






share|improve this answer





























  • @ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

    – JACK
    3 hours ago











  • @JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

    – Harper
    2 hours ago















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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2


















I'm assuming you made your measurements with nothing connected to the affected outlet. In that case there is a fault somewhere on that circuit and the Live-Neutral reading shows that.



The next step is to remove the outlet itself from the load-end of the circuit and see if anything changes. If so, you should replace the outlet itself.



If not, then the fault is in the wiring and you'll need to trace the circuit from end to end and find the problem.



Have you done any construction lately where a fastener might have been driven through the wire? Are there any junction boxes on that circuit where a fault might have developed? Pay particular attention to where the wire enters and exits boxes and bends around obstructions.



It's uncommon for a wire to just develop a fault all on its own unless it was sized improperly and was overloaded. Check that the wire size matches the load and the breaker rating.



In answer to your point in the comment, I may have misunderstood where you were taking your measurements. But it's also possible that the breaker itself is defective. You might try another one and see if that resolves the issue.






share|improve this answer





























  • Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago











  • Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago


















2


















I'm assuming you made your measurements with nothing connected to the affected outlet. In that case there is a fault somewhere on that circuit and the Live-Neutral reading shows that.



The next step is to remove the outlet itself from the load-end of the circuit and see if anything changes. If so, you should replace the outlet itself.



If not, then the fault is in the wiring and you'll need to trace the circuit from end to end and find the problem.



Have you done any construction lately where a fastener might have been driven through the wire? Are there any junction boxes on that circuit where a fault might have developed? Pay particular attention to where the wire enters and exits boxes and bends around obstructions.



It's uncommon for a wire to just develop a fault all on its own unless it was sized improperly and was overloaded. Check that the wire size matches the load and the breaker rating.



In answer to your point in the comment, I may have misunderstood where you were taking your measurements. But it's also possible that the breaker itself is defective. You might try another one and see if that resolves the issue.






share|improve this answer





























  • Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago











  • Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago
















2














2










2









I'm assuming you made your measurements with nothing connected to the affected outlet. In that case there is a fault somewhere on that circuit and the Live-Neutral reading shows that.



The next step is to remove the outlet itself from the load-end of the circuit and see if anything changes. If so, you should replace the outlet itself.



If not, then the fault is in the wiring and you'll need to trace the circuit from end to end and find the problem.



Have you done any construction lately where a fastener might have been driven through the wire? Are there any junction boxes on that circuit where a fault might have developed? Pay particular attention to where the wire enters and exits boxes and bends around obstructions.



It's uncommon for a wire to just develop a fault all on its own unless it was sized improperly and was overloaded. Check that the wire size matches the load and the breaker rating.



In answer to your point in the comment, I may have misunderstood where you were taking your measurements. But it's also possible that the breaker itself is defective. You might try another one and see if that resolves the issue.






share|improve this answer
















I'm assuming you made your measurements with nothing connected to the affected outlet. In that case there is a fault somewhere on that circuit and the Live-Neutral reading shows that.



The next step is to remove the outlet itself from the load-end of the circuit and see if anything changes. If so, you should replace the outlet itself.



If not, then the fault is in the wiring and you'll need to trace the circuit from end to end and find the problem.



Have you done any construction lately where a fastener might have been driven through the wire? Are there any junction boxes on that circuit where a fault might have developed? Pay particular attention to where the wire enters and exits boxes and bends around obstructions.



It's uncommon for a wire to just develop a fault all on its own unless it was sized improperly and was overloaded. Check that the wire size matches the load and the breaker rating.



In answer to your point in the comment, I may have misunderstood where you were taking your measurements. But it's also possible that the breaker itself is defective. You might try another one and see if that resolves the issue.







share|improve this answer















share|improve this answer




share|improve this answer








edited 7 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









jwh20jwh20

1,4071 gold badge2 silver badges9 bronze badges




1,4071 gold badge2 silver badges9 bronze badges
















  • Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago











  • Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago





















  • Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago











  • Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

    – Nelson
    7 hours ago



















Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

– Nelson
7 hours ago





Hmm, shouldn't I be able to detect the live-neutral fault when the breaker is opened? With regards to the rest of the issues, I am quite familiar with the wiring since I oversaw its installation. This is in an apartment, the wire is buried inside the concrete, and runs straight down from the wall to the ground, straight into the main panel... if this really is a short this is indeed very bad...

– Nelson
7 hours ago













Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

– Nelson
7 hours ago







Actually, does this mean there is a problem from the main power to the main panel instead of from the main panel to the outlet? I don't get the Live-Neutral short when the breaker is opened. There is no outlet to cause problems because it is a junction box directly connected to the AC wiring.

– Nelson
7 hours ago















1


















Here's what you're supposed to have.



Live to neutral: some value of resistance depending on your load. Don't be surprised if the figure doesn't strictly follow Ohm's Law; many devices have their effective resistance change after they warm up. If there are no loads on the circuit, hot-neutral should be infinity ohms.



Live to ground/earth: this should always be infinity ohms if the breaker is switched off. If it is not, you have a ground fault on either hot or neutral. If hot-neutral is infinity ohms, then a lesser reading is definitely a ground fault.



Neutral to ground/earth: should be zero ohms if the proper neutral-ground bond is connected, and should be infinity ohms if the hot and neutral wire are lifted off the breaker or neutral bus.



Non-infinite resistance (conductivity) between hot and neutral is normal if any loads are attached. However, if you disconnect hot/neutral from the panel, there must always be infinity ohms/zero conductance between hot/neutral and ground. If there is conductance between hot/neutral and ground, then you have a problem that you must fix.






share|improve this answer





























  • @ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

    – JACK
    3 hours ago











  • @JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

    – Harper
    2 hours ago


















1


















Here's what you're supposed to have.



Live to neutral: some value of resistance depending on your load. Don't be surprised if the figure doesn't strictly follow Ohm's Law; many devices have their effective resistance change after they warm up. If there are no loads on the circuit, hot-neutral should be infinity ohms.



Live to ground/earth: this should always be infinity ohms if the breaker is switched off. If it is not, you have a ground fault on either hot or neutral. If hot-neutral is infinity ohms, then a lesser reading is definitely a ground fault.



Neutral to ground/earth: should be zero ohms if the proper neutral-ground bond is connected, and should be infinity ohms if the hot and neutral wire are lifted off the breaker or neutral bus.



Non-infinite resistance (conductivity) between hot and neutral is normal if any loads are attached. However, if you disconnect hot/neutral from the panel, there must always be infinity ohms/zero conductance between hot/neutral and ground. If there is conductance between hot/neutral and ground, then you have a problem that you must fix.






share|improve this answer





























  • @ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

    – JACK
    3 hours ago











  • @JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

    – Harper
    2 hours ago
















1














1










1









Here's what you're supposed to have.



Live to neutral: some value of resistance depending on your load. Don't be surprised if the figure doesn't strictly follow Ohm's Law; many devices have their effective resistance change after they warm up. If there are no loads on the circuit, hot-neutral should be infinity ohms.



Live to ground/earth: this should always be infinity ohms if the breaker is switched off. If it is not, you have a ground fault on either hot or neutral. If hot-neutral is infinity ohms, then a lesser reading is definitely a ground fault.



Neutral to ground/earth: should be zero ohms if the proper neutral-ground bond is connected, and should be infinity ohms if the hot and neutral wire are lifted off the breaker or neutral bus.



Non-infinite resistance (conductivity) between hot and neutral is normal if any loads are attached. However, if you disconnect hot/neutral from the panel, there must always be infinity ohms/zero conductance between hot/neutral and ground. If there is conductance between hot/neutral and ground, then you have a problem that you must fix.






share|improve this answer
















Here's what you're supposed to have.



Live to neutral: some value of resistance depending on your load. Don't be surprised if the figure doesn't strictly follow Ohm's Law; many devices have their effective resistance change after they warm up. If there are no loads on the circuit, hot-neutral should be infinity ohms.



Live to ground/earth: this should always be infinity ohms if the breaker is switched off. If it is not, you have a ground fault on either hot or neutral. If hot-neutral is infinity ohms, then a lesser reading is definitely a ground fault.



Neutral to ground/earth: should be zero ohms if the proper neutral-ground bond is connected, and should be infinity ohms if the hot and neutral wire are lifted off the breaker or neutral bus.



Non-infinite resistance (conductivity) between hot and neutral is normal if any loads are attached. However, if you disconnect hot/neutral from the panel, there must always be infinity ohms/zero conductance between hot/neutral and ground. If there is conductance between hot/neutral and ground, then you have a problem that you must fix.







share|improve this answer















share|improve this answer




share|improve this answer








edited 2 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









HarperHarper

101k7 gold badges75 silver badges215 bronze badges




101k7 gold badges75 silver badges215 bronze badges
















  • @ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

    – JACK
    3 hours ago











  • @JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

    – Harper
    2 hours ago





















  • @ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

    – JACK
    3 hours ago











  • @JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

    – Harper
    2 hours ago



















@ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

– JACK
3 hours ago





@ Harper "if the neutral wire is lifted off the breaker"? or off the panel...

– JACK
3 hours ago













@JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

– Harper
2 hours ago







@JACK yes, if its going to the panel. However since I thought OP said it was going into a GFCI breaker (called an RCBO there). I certainly hope the neutral is going to the breaker.

– Harper
2 hours ago





















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