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prime numbers and expressing non-prime numbers



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Expressing a Non Negative Integer as Sums of Two SquaresAre all prime numbers finite?How can can you write a prime number as a product of prime numbers?Who generates the prime numbers for encryption?In Fermat's little theorem, if mod is not prime?Prime numbers like 113Non-unique prime factorisationWhy are all non-prime numbers divisible by a prime number?Generating Prime Numbers From Composite NumbersAlternate definition of prime numbers












3












$begingroup$


My textbook says if $b$ is a non-prime number then it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers. But if $1$ isn't prime how it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    An empty product is still a product.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    10 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
    $endgroup$
    – Martin Hansen
    10 hours ago
















3












$begingroup$


My textbook says if $b$ is a non-prime number then it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers. But if $1$ isn't prime how it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    An empty product is still a product.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    10 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
    $endgroup$
    – Martin Hansen
    10 hours ago














3












3








3





$begingroup$


My textbook says if $b$ is a non-prime number then it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers. But if $1$ isn't prime how it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




My textbook says if $b$ is a non-prime number then it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers. But if $1$ isn't prime how it can be expressed as a product of prime numbers?







number-theory elementary-number-theory prime-numbers






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









Mr. Brooks

23711339




23711339










asked 10 hours ago









Ahmed M. ElsonbatyAhmed M. Elsonbaty

674




674








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    An empty product is still a product.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    10 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
    $endgroup$
    – Martin Hansen
    10 hours ago














  • 6




    $begingroup$
    An empty product is still a product.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    10 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
    $endgroup$
    – Martin Hansen
    10 hours ago








6




6




$begingroup$
An empty product is still a product.
$endgroup$
– lulu
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
An empty product is still a product.
$endgroup$
– lulu
10 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
$endgroup$
– Martin Hansen
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
The standard modern day view is that the number 1 is neither prime nor composite.
$endgroup$
– Martin Hansen
10 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

"In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is a prime number itself or can be represented as the product of prime numbers and that, moreover, this representation is unique, up to (except for) the order of the factors."



Your error lies in stating the fundamental theorem of arithmetic incorrectly.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
    $endgroup$
    – Mr. Brooks
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Foreman
    9 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
    $endgroup$
    – Mr. Brooks
    9 hours ago



















2












$begingroup$

What is the sum of no numbers at all? Zero, of course, since it is the additive identity: $x + 0 = 0$, where $x neq 0$, or even if it is.



Now, what is the product of no numbers at all? It can't be zero, since, maintaining the stipulation that $x neq 0$, we have $x times 0 = 0$, and we said $x neq 0$. The multiplicative identity is $1$, since $x times 1 = 1$.



Hence, the product of no primes at all is $1$. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic is a subtlety that's unnecessary for answering your question.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    2












    $begingroup$

    This is mainly just an extended comment on Peter Foreman's answer. The (relatively difficult) uniqueness aspect of the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is not needed for the OP's question, just the (easier) existence aspect.



    What's missing from the OP's textbook is the qualifier in the correct assertion that every non-prime number greater than $1$ can be expressed as a product of primes. This is the existence aspect of FTA, and it can be proved by strong induction: If $ngt1$ is not a prime, then $n=ab$ for some pair of integers with $1lt a,b$. Both $a$ and $b$ must be less than $n$ (otherwise their product would be more than $n$), so we can assume, by strong induction, that each of them can be written as a product of primes, hence so can their product, which is $n$.



    Remark: "Strong" induction means that you don't just assume an assertion is true for $n-1$ and then prove it for $n$, you assume it's true for all positive integers $klt n$. In this case the assertion is "if $kgt1$ and $k$ is non-prime, then $k$ can be written as a product of primes." Note that the base case, $k=1$, is vacuously true, because $1$ is not greater than $1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$


      An empty product is still a product.




      Lulu's comment is sufficient to answer what you asked. Although you didn't state any constraints on $b$, I understand your question to be specifically about the case $b = 1$. And that's neatly addressed just by the concept of the empty product alone.





      But then why is everyone talking about the fundamental theorem of arithmetic? Its overuse is part of the reason.



      But also because it's kind of implied by the idea of $b$ being the product of primes. For, after all, if a number domain does not have unique factorization, then it probably has numbers that are divisible by irreducible non-primes but not by any primes.



      However, even if we're only talking about $mathbb Z$, I think it's still more productive (pun fully intended) to say numbers in a unique factorization domain are divisible by units and primes: the units may vary in infinitely many ways, but the primes can only vary in regards to order.



      And so we're not the least bit baffled about the number 1, since it's a product of units in several different ways (e.g., $(-1)^2 =$ $ (-1)^4 times 1 = $ $ldots$) and an empty product of primes.



      Nor are we baffled by negative numbers, even if we stubbornly refuse the sensible idea that negative numbers can be prime. For example, $-14 = (-1) times 2 times 7$.



      And $-1$ is the product of the unit $-1$ and an empty product of primes, which is, of course, 1.



      This only leaves out the very special case of 0.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$














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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        1












        $begingroup$

        "In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is a prime number itself or can be represented as the product of prime numbers and that, moreover, this representation is unique, up to (except for) the order of the factors."



        Your error lies in stating the fundamental theorem of arithmetic incorrectly.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
          $endgroup$
          – Peter Foreman
          9 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago
















        1












        $begingroup$

        "In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is a prime number itself or can be represented as the product of prime numbers and that, moreover, this representation is unique, up to (except for) the order of the factors."



        Your error lies in stating the fundamental theorem of arithmetic incorrectly.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
          $endgroup$
          – Peter Foreman
          9 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago














        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        "In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is a prime number itself or can be represented as the product of prime numbers and that, moreover, this representation is unique, up to (except for) the order of the factors."



        Your error lies in stating the fundamental theorem of arithmetic incorrectly.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        "In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is a prime number itself or can be represented as the product of prime numbers and that, moreover, this representation is unique, up to (except for) the order of the factors."



        Your error lies in stating the fundamental theorem of arithmetic incorrectly.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 10 hours ago









        Peter ForemanPeter Foreman

        7,9221320




        7,9221320








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
          $endgroup$
          – Peter Foreman
          9 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago














        • 1




          $begingroup$
          What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
          $endgroup$
          – Peter Foreman
          9 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
          $endgroup$
          – Mr. Brooks
          9 hours ago








        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
        $endgroup$
        – Mr. Brooks
        9 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        What about non-UFDs? 1 is still not prime in those, so FTA does not apply, and the asker didn't even bring up the FTA.
        $endgroup$
        – Mr. Brooks
        9 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Foreman
        9 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        I assumed that their textbook meant the FTA and they accepted my answer, what is the problem?
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Foreman
        9 hours ago




        2




        2




        $begingroup$
        There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
        $endgroup$
        – Mr. Brooks
        9 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        There is no problem at all if you treat this website as a competition for points.
        $endgroup$
        – Mr. Brooks
        9 hours ago











        2












        $begingroup$

        What is the sum of no numbers at all? Zero, of course, since it is the additive identity: $x + 0 = 0$, where $x neq 0$, or even if it is.



        Now, what is the product of no numbers at all? It can't be zero, since, maintaining the stipulation that $x neq 0$, we have $x times 0 = 0$, and we said $x neq 0$. The multiplicative identity is $1$, since $x times 1 = 1$.



        Hence, the product of no primes at all is $1$. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic is a subtlety that's unnecessary for answering your question.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          2












          $begingroup$

          What is the sum of no numbers at all? Zero, of course, since it is the additive identity: $x + 0 = 0$, where $x neq 0$, or even if it is.



          Now, what is the product of no numbers at all? It can't be zero, since, maintaining the stipulation that $x neq 0$, we have $x times 0 = 0$, and we said $x neq 0$. The multiplicative identity is $1$, since $x times 1 = 1$.



          Hence, the product of no primes at all is $1$. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic is a subtlety that's unnecessary for answering your question.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















            2












            2








            2





            $begingroup$

            What is the sum of no numbers at all? Zero, of course, since it is the additive identity: $x + 0 = 0$, where $x neq 0$, or even if it is.



            Now, what is the product of no numbers at all? It can't be zero, since, maintaining the stipulation that $x neq 0$, we have $x times 0 = 0$, and we said $x neq 0$. The multiplicative identity is $1$, since $x times 1 = 1$.



            Hence, the product of no primes at all is $1$. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic is a subtlety that's unnecessary for answering your question.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            What is the sum of no numbers at all? Zero, of course, since it is the additive identity: $x + 0 = 0$, where $x neq 0$, or even if it is.



            Now, what is the product of no numbers at all? It can't be zero, since, maintaining the stipulation that $x neq 0$, we have $x times 0 = 0$, and we said $x neq 0$. The multiplicative identity is $1$, since $x times 1 = 1$.



            Hence, the product of no primes at all is $1$. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic is a subtlety that's unnecessary for answering your question.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered 9 hours ago









            Mr. BrooksMr. Brooks

            23711339




            23711339























                2












                $begingroup$

                This is mainly just an extended comment on Peter Foreman's answer. The (relatively difficult) uniqueness aspect of the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is not needed for the OP's question, just the (easier) existence aspect.



                What's missing from the OP's textbook is the qualifier in the correct assertion that every non-prime number greater than $1$ can be expressed as a product of primes. This is the existence aspect of FTA, and it can be proved by strong induction: If $ngt1$ is not a prime, then $n=ab$ for some pair of integers with $1lt a,b$. Both $a$ and $b$ must be less than $n$ (otherwise their product would be more than $n$), so we can assume, by strong induction, that each of them can be written as a product of primes, hence so can their product, which is $n$.



                Remark: "Strong" induction means that you don't just assume an assertion is true for $n-1$ and then prove it for $n$, you assume it's true for all positive integers $klt n$. In this case the assertion is "if $kgt1$ and $k$ is non-prime, then $k$ can be written as a product of primes." Note that the base case, $k=1$, is vacuously true, because $1$ is not greater than $1$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  This is mainly just an extended comment on Peter Foreman's answer. The (relatively difficult) uniqueness aspect of the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is not needed for the OP's question, just the (easier) existence aspect.



                  What's missing from the OP's textbook is the qualifier in the correct assertion that every non-prime number greater than $1$ can be expressed as a product of primes. This is the existence aspect of FTA, and it can be proved by strong induction: If $ngt1$ is not a prime, then $n=ab$ for some pair of integers with $1lt a,b$. Both $a$ and $b$ must be less than $n$ (otherwise their product would be more than $n$), so we can assume, by strong induction, that each of them can be written as a product of primes, hence so can their product, which is $n$.



                  Remark: "Strong" induction means that you don't just assume an assertion is true for $n-1$ and then prove it for $n$, you assume it's true for all positive integers $klt n$. In this case the assertion is "if $kgt1$ and $k$ is non-prime, then $k$ can be written as a product of primes." Note that the base case, $k=1$, is vacuously true, because $1$ is not greater than $1$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    This is mainly just an extended comment on Peter Foreman's answer. The (relatively difficult) uniqueness aspect of the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is not needed for the OP's question, just the (easier) existence aspect.



                    What's missing from the OP's textbook is the qualifier in the correct assertion that every non-prime number greater than $1$ can be expressed as a product of primes. This is the existence aspect of FTA, and it can be proved by strong induction: If $ngt1$ is not a prime, then $n=ab$ for some pair of integers with $1lt a,b$. Both $a$ and $b$ must be less than $n$ (otherwise their product would be more than $n$), so we can assume, by strong induction, that each of them can be written as a product of primes, hence so can their product, which is $n$.



                    Remark: "Strong" induction means that you don't just assume an assertion is true for $n-1$ and then prove it for $n$, you assume it's true for all positive integers $klt n$. In this case the assertion is "if $kgt1$ and $k$ is non-prime, then $k$ can be written as a product of primes." Note that the base case, $k=1$, is vacuously true, because $1$ is not greater than $1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    This is mainly just an extended comment on Peter Foreman's answer. The (relatively difficult) uniqueness aspect of the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic is not needed for the OP's question, just the (easier) existence aspect.



                    What's missing from the OP's textbook is the qualifier in the correct assertion that every non-prime number greater than $1$ can be expressed as a product of primes. This is the existence aspect of FTA, and it can be proved by strong induction: If $ngt1$ is not a prime, then $n=ab$ for some pair of integers with $1lt a,b$. Both $a$ and $b$ must be less than $n$ (otherwise their product would be more than $n$), so we can assume, by strong induction, that each of them can be written as a product of primes, hence so can their product, which is $n$.



                    Remark: "Strong" induction means that you don't just assume an assertion is true for $n-1$ and then prove it for $n$, you assume it's true for all positive integers $klt n$. In this case the assertion is "if $kgt1$ and $k$ is non-prime, then $k$ can be written as a product of primes." Note that the base case, $k=1$, is vacuously true, because $1$ is not greater than $1$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 8 hours ago









                    Barry CipraBarry Cipra

                    60.7k655129




                    60.7k655129























                        0












                        $begingroup$


                        An empty product is still a product.




                        Lulu's comment is sufficient to answer what you asked. Although you didn't state any constraints on $b$, I understand your question to be specifically about the case $b = 1$. And that's neatly addressed just by the concept of the empty product alone.





                        But then why is everyone talking about the fundamental theorem of arithmetic? Its overuse is part of the reason.



                        But also because it's kind of implied by the idea of $b$ being the product of primes. For, after all, if a number domain does not have unique factorization, then it probably has numbers that are divisible by irreducible non-primes but not by any primes.



                        However, even if we're only talking about $mathbb Z$, I think it's still more productive (pun fully intended) to say numbers in a unique factorization domain are divisible by units and primes: the units may vary in infinitely many ways, but the primes can only vary in regards to order.



                        And so we're not the least bit baffled about the number 1, since it's a product of units in several different ways (e.g., $(-1)^2 =$ $ (-1)^4 times 1 = $ $ldots$) and an empty product of primes.



                        Nor are we baffled by negative numbers, even if we stubbornly refuse the sensible idea that negative numbers can be prime. For example, $-14 = (-1) times 2 times 7$.



                        And $-1$ is the product of the unit $-1$ and an empty product of primes, which is, of course, 1.



                        This only leaves out the very special case of 0.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$


                          An empty product is still a product.




                          Lulu's comment is sufficient to answer what you asked. Although you didn't state any constraints on $b$, I understand your question to be specifically about the case $b = 1$. And that's neatly addressed just by the concept of the empty product alone.





                          But then why is everyone talking about the fundamental theorem of arithmetic? Its overuse is part of the reason.



                          But also because it's kind of implied by the idea of $b$ being the product of primes. For, after all, if a number domain does not have unique factorization, then it probably has numbers that are divisible by irreducible non-primes but not by any primes.



                          However, even if we're only talking about $mathbb Z$, I think it's still more productive (pun fully intended) to say numbers in a unique factorization domain are divisible by units and primes: the units may vary in infinitely many ways, but the primes can only vary in regards to order.



                          And so we're not the least bit baffled about the number 1, since it's a product of units in several different ways (e.g., $(-1)^2 =$ $ (-1)^4 times 1 = $ $ldots$) and an empty product of primes.



                          Nor are we baffled by negative numbers, even if we stubbornly refuse the sensible idea that negative numbers can be prime. For example, $-14 = (-1) times 2 times 7$.



                          And $-1$ is the product of the unit $-1$ and an empty product of primes, which is, of course, 1.



                          This only leaves out the very special case of 0.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$


                            An empty product is still a product.




                            Lulu's comment is sufficient to answer what you asked. Although you didn't state any constraints on $b$, I understand your question to be specifically about the case $b = 1$. And that's neatly addressed just by the concept of the empty product alone.





                            But then why is everyone talking about the fundamental theorem of arithmetic? Its overuse is part of the reason.



                            But also because it's kind of implied by the idea of $b$ being the product of primes. For, after all, if a number domain does not have unique factorization, then it probably has numbers that are divisible by irreducible non-primes but not by any primes.



                            However, even if we're only talking about $mathbb Z$, I think it's still more productive (pun fully intended) to say numbers in a unique factorization domain are divisible by units and primes: the units may vary in infinitely many ways, but the primes can only vary in regards to order.



                            And so we're not the least bit baffled about the number 1, since it's a product of units in several different ways (e.g., $(-1)^2 =$ $ (-1)^4 times 1 = $ $ldots$) and an empty product of primes.



                            Nor are we baffled by negative numbers, even if we stubbornly refuse the sensible idea that negative numbers can be prime. For example, $-14 = (-1) times 2 times 7$.



                            And $-1$ is the product of the unit $-1$ and an empty product of primes, which is, of course, 1.



                            This only leaves out the very special case of 0.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$




                            An empty product is still a product.




                            Lulu's comment is sufficient to answer what you asked. Although you didn't state any constraints on $b$, I understand your question to be specifically about the case $b = 1$. And that's neatly addressed just by the concept of the empty product alone.





                            But then why is everyone talking about the fundamental theorem of arithmetic? Its overuse is part of the reason.



                            But also because it's kind of implied by the idea of $b$ being the product of primes. For, after all, if a number domain does not have unique factorization, then it probably has numbers that are divisible by irreducible non-primes but not by any primes.



                            However, even if we're only talking about $mathbb Z$, I think it's still more productive (pun fully intended) to say numbers in a unique factorization domain are divisible by units and primes: the units may vary in infinitely many ways, but the primes can only vary in regards to order.



                            And so we're not the least bit baffled about the number 1, since it's a product of units in several different ways (e.g., $(-1)^2 =$ $ (-1)^4 times 1 = $ $ldots$) and an empty product of primes.



                            Nor are we baffled by negative numbers, even if we stubbornly refuse the sensible idea that negative numbers can be prime. For example, $-14 = (-1) times 2 times 7$.



                            And $-1$ is the product of the unit $-1$ and an empty product of primes, which is, of course, 1.



                            This only leaves out the very special case of 0.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered 54 mins ago









                            Robert SoupeRobert Soupe

                            11.5k21951




                            11.5k21951






























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