How to provide realism without making readers think grimdarkHow can I surprise my readers with a surprise...

What if you don't bring your credit card or debit for incidentals?

What does War Machine's "Canopy! Canopy!" line mean in "Avengers: Endgame"?

Strange math syntax in old basic listing

Topological spaces which are not pseudometrizable.

Is there a term for this?

Comma Code - Ch. 4 Automate the Boring Stuff

Is /home directory in root partition mapped to /home partition

How to detach yourself from a character you're going to kill?

I made a mistake ordering ground coffee - will Expresso ground coffee work for a French Press?

Cross Correlation, how can any signals except the trivial cases be uncorrelated?

Why was it possible to cause an Apple //e to shut down with SHIFT and paddle button 2?

If Sweden was to magically float away, at what altitude would it be visible from the southern hemisphere?

Concise way to draw this pyramid

Do adult Russians normally hand-write Cyrillic as cursive or as block letters?

Can a helicopter mask itself from radar?

Homophone fills the blanks

Is it grammatical to use "car" like this?

Rotated Position of Integers

Unconventional Opposites

Beginner's snake game using PyGame

Was the 1959 Tibetan Uprising really an uprising?

PhD student with mental health issues and bad performance

How can Iron Man's suit withstand this?

Is American Express widely accepted in France?



How to provide realism without making readers think grimdark


How can I surprise my readers with a surprise betrayal?How to write a death scene without making it overdramatic?How to think of a plot in 5 minutesRepresenting minorities without cultural appropriationHow to get readers to care about a dead character?How do you show character reactions without making them do something physically that is unrealistic?How can I write about historical realities that readers mistakenly believe are unrealistic?How do I draw attention to a girl's chest without making it overly lewd?Using time travel without creating plot holesHow do I write for the majority, without alienating my minority?













5















So, I have a couple moments in a fantasy story where I want the heroes' actions to actually have consequences (Well, that are really impactful to the story.) One is where the MCs kill a minor lord, causing a major disruption as the daughter takes over as a child ruler. Luckily, she's mature for her age, and will try to rule fairly and kindly, unlike her father, but that's another tale.



The other moment is when an MC, a prince thought to be dead, shows up in his
home country, and finds it in ruins. Well, a magician has gone on a year or two long power trip, and hadn't thought to actually rule the country, and therefore, all the petty nobles are controlling their own territories. I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen, but I also want there to be realistic consequences for their actions.



My question is: how do I portray realism without making the whole situation a s***show?










share|improve this question

























  • Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

    – DPT
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago











  • To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago











  • And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    @KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago
















5















So, I have a couple moments in a fantasy story where I want the heroes' actions to actually have consequences (Well, that are really impactful to the story.) One is where the MCs kill a minor lord, causing a major disruption as the daughter takes over as a child ruler. Luckily, she's mature for her age, and will try to rule fairly and kindly, unlike her father, but that's another tale.



The other moment is when an MC, a prince thought to be dead, shows up in his
home country, and finds it in ruins. Well, a magician has gone on a year or two long power trip, and hadn't thought to actually rule the country, and therefore, all the petty nobles are controlling their own territories. I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen, but I also want there to be realistic consequences for their actions.



My question is: how do I portray realism without making the whole situation a s***show?










share|improve this question

























  • Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

    – DPT
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago











  • To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago











  • And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    @KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago














5












5








5








So, I have a couple moments in a fantasy story where I want the heroes' actions to actually have consequences (Well, that are really impactful to the story.) One is where the MCs kill a minor lord, causing a major disruption as the daughter takes over as a child ruler. Luckily, she's mature for her age, and will try to rule fairly and kindly, unlike her father, but that's another tale.



The other moment is when an MC, a prince thought to be dead, shows up in his
home country, and finds it in ruins. Well, a magician has gone on a year or two long power trip, and hadn't thought to actually rule the country, and therefore, all the petty nobles are controlling their own territories. I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen, but I also want there to be realistic consequences for their actions.



My question is: how do I portray realism without making the whole situation a s***show?










share|improve this question
















So, I have a couple moments in a fantasy story where I want the heroes' actions to actually have consequences (Well, that are really impactful to the story.) One is where the MCs kill a minor lord, causing a major disruption as the daughter takes over as a child ruler. Luckily, she's mature for her age, and will try to rule fairly and kindly, unlike her father, but that's another tale.



The other moment is when an MC, a prince thought to be dead, shows up in his
home country, and finds it in ruins. Well, a magician has gone on a year or two long power trip, and hadn't thought to actually rule the country, and therefore, all the petty nobles are controlling their own territories. I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen, but I also want there to be realistic consequences for their actions.



My question is: how do I portray realism without making the whole situation a s***show?







fiction plot narrative audience realism






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 hours ago









Liquid

10.5k23090




10.5k23090










asked 10 hours ago









Kale SladeKale Slade

1,444635




1,444635













  • Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

    – DPT
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago











  • To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago











  • And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    @KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago



















  • Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

    – DPT
    10 hours ago






  • 1





    At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago











  • To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago











  • And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

    – Kale Slade
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    @KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

    – wetcircuit
    9 hours ago

















Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

– DPT
10 hours ago





Do you have a secondary character who can be the voice of reason? The wise advisor? A character who can provide key insight--that there have always been ups and downs, that every challenge brings new opportunity, and so on? I think you are looking for a ray of hope--the return of the prince seems to be a hopeful event, so I'd play with these ideas--you might need a wise advisor character (think Gandalf, Obi Wan, and the like, but for their wisdom, not their magic.)

– DPT
10 hours ago




1




1





At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

– wetcircuit
9 hours ago





At risk of saying what might be misconstrued as criticism, these aren't "realistic" scenarios to begin with. You're framing a false dichotomy then declaring you want middle ground. Instead of "realism", maybe the actual thing you want is "depth and meaning", "emotional impact", "characters that have dimension and agency" "strong stories that hold up to scrutiny"…? GrimDark isn't realistic. Magic isn't realistic. Child rulers are not realistic…. Tell the story you want to tell, in the best way you can. Good plots and interesting characters exist in Fantasy – realism not so much.

– wetcircuit
9 hours ago













To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

– Kale Slade
9 hours ago





To answer @DPT 's question, there is a wise character, well two. One is the prince himself, who's been known to be wise beyond his years, and the other is the cleric/healer character, who consults the spirits of her ancestors, and thus gains their knowledge and wisdom. She's the voice of reason character whenever our prince gets too upset.

– Kale Slade
9 hours ago













And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

– Kale Slade
9 hours ago





And @wetcircuit, you're probably right. I had just watched a realism trope video, so this may just be paranoia.

– Kale Slade
9 hours ago




1




1





@KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

– wetcircuit
9 hours ago





@KaleSlade, paranoia is a good motivation. I swing between "this is a plot goldmine!" and "omigosh this is so dumb why am I writing a bad action movie???" haha

– wetcircuit
9 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















8














Realism means variety, because real life isn't all one thing



To some degree, you've answered your own question:




I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen




If a little kid's parents die, show him sometimes forgetting to mourn and having fun instead. If petty nobles end up ruling their fiefs unsupervised, show some of them actually caring for the commoners under them, and getting along okay. (Even if they're reasonably worried that they'll be helpless if the big bad neighboring noble notices they're not united, and might come snapping up their bit territories one at a time.)



If you want to avoid grimdark, just remember that realistic life, even in terrible circumstances, has variety, and some of that variety is pleasant. And show that things are not entirely hopeless. In particular, even when the larger arc is looking quite negative, small joys and small triumphs in the present go a long way to lightening the tone. ("My prince - you're really alive? Can it be true?")



That's more or less all there is to it.






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

    – DJ Spicy Deluxe
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

    – Jedediah
    8 hours ago



















1














They say you shouldn't show gore, if you want it to have an emotional impact. Instead, show a teddy bear, or some other child's toy, sitting abandoned, or placed by a grave.



The same can hold true for the opposite. You want to show it isn't grimdark, then show hope, show life. Kids playing in the streets as their mothers call them in for supper. Show women hanging their laundry in their back yards. Show a festival, with happy faces and music and dancing.



If the fiefs are now 'independent', show one of them thriving. Show a market place with fresh foods and goods. Show adventurers' guilds thriving (if that's part of the world). Show trade continuing.



But also show that some of the fiefs don't get along--disparaging comments about 'those' people kicking up trouble. Show petty squabbles between neighbouring towns, even.



It has to make sense in the bigger picture. So, don't show that life is just dandy, but don't let it be misery porn either. There needs to be something worth protecting, but there needs to be something that needs to change as well--that's where the story comes from, after all.






share|improve this answer































    1














    Realistically, life sucks, but most of us manage to find hope somewhere. Sometimes little girls have to grow up too fast and sometimes we have to deal with messes other people make.



    It sounds like your young lady is going to have a lot of tears and fight some battles she's not ready for. Let her fight. Let her cry. But, make it worth it in the end. “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Don't forget to let her laugh sometimes too. Give her some battles she can win, so she gains the confidence to keep trying after the ones she loses.



    Your long-lost prince is going to have to pull up his big boy pants and learn some diplomacy and negotiation skills. The entire structure of his kingdom has been altered and he's going to have to work with that. He may never have the same amount of control as the previous king, but that’s life.



    Give both of your characters failures and successes. Heavy consequences for bad decisions aren't necessarily grimdark. They are learning experiences. They develop character and make the few victories that much sweeter.



    As you plan out these successes and failures, some avenues of hope will emerge and, hopefully, you will begin to see the pathways towards a happy ending. Or, at least, an ending everyone can deal with.






    share|improve this answer































      1














      Heroes Have Consequences.



      Heroes cause major changes, and every major change is likely to be negative for somebody, and often that person is an innocent. No matter what the setting, defeating evil is meaningless if the evil is not ruining lives (or about to ruin them). It may take a war to defeat the evil, but in the process soldiers die on both sides, and the soldiers are the sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters of innocents that were not evil, but caught up in forces far greater than themselves. When the righteous prevail in a war, they make the world a better place, but there is always a cost.



      Being heroes, I presume they had no real choice but to kill the minor lord. He was ruining lives somehow, sacrificing the lives of his soldiers over petty personal disputes, taxing his people into poverty, or hanging them or crucifying them for dissent, or raping their daughters, whatever.



      But in the process of making the world a better place for his subjects, they harmed an innocent -- They orphaned an innocent girl.



      What you can do about it, as an author, is find a way to let them be heroes again. They don't have to kill the lord and walk away. Let's say, upon the lord's death, some member of his evil entourage has designs on taking his place -- He wants to murder the daughter to clear his path. And even though she blames them for his death, in front of her they save her life. She knows it. This proves to her which members of the court are loyal to the crown. Now the dilemma is on her, does she order the traitors killed? Orphan their wives and children? She does, because their crime must have public consequences, but at their execution she announces that their wives and children are henceforth wards of the crown and under her protection.



      Your returning prince feels like he abandoned his people. Maybe he did, maybe he was thoughtless. He was off making the world a better place, but there are always consequences to innocents, including his people. He can't undo those consequences, but he is a hero, his friends are heroes. How can he, or the group, be heroes again in these circumstances? Can they kill the worst of the overlords? Is there some way to put this country back on the right track? Can they kill the idiot magician and install a diplomat that can reunite the country? Say, the one noble that has done the best job of running his territory for the good of his people, instead of himself. Even if the prince will leave again, perhaps his little band of heroes can forge an alliance of nobles by eliminating an obstacle in their way; a tyrant or two that separate them.



      The heroes are your engine of hope, their job is to make the world better, even if they are the ones that screwed it up.



      It doesn't mean they erase the consequences. The little girl is an orphan. Lives were ruined and lost in the country. But they step up and create a hopeful path for going forward.






      share|improve this answer


























        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "166"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });














        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f45575%2fhow-to-provide-realism-without-making-readers-think-grimdark%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        8














        Realism means variety, because real life isn't all one thing



        To some degree, you've answered your own question:




        I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen




        If a little kid's parents die, show him sometimes forgetting to mourn and having fun instead. If petty nobles end up ruling their fiefs unsupervised, show some of them actually caring for the commoners under them, and getting along okay. (Even if they're reasonably worried that they'll be helpless if the big bad neighboring noble notices they're not united, and might come snapping up their bit territories one at a time.)



        If you want to avoid grimdark, just remember that realistic life, even in terrible circumstances, has variety, and some of that variety is pleasant. And show that things are not entirely hopeless. In particular, even when the larger arc is looking quite negative, small joys and small triumphs in the present go a long way to lightening the tone. ("My prince - you're really alive? Can it be true?")



        That's more or less all there is to it.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 2





          I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

          – DJ Spicy Deluxe
          9 hours ago






        • 1





          @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

          – Jedediah
          8 hours ago
















        8














        Realism means variety, because real life isn't all one thing



        To some degree, you've answered your own question:




        I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen




        If a little kid's parents die, show him sometimes forgetting to mourn and having fun instead. If petty nobles end up ruling their fiefs unsupervised, show some of them actually caring for the commoners under them, and getting along okay. (Even if they're reasonably worried that they'll be helpless if the big bad neighboring noble notices they're not united, and might come snapping up their bit territories one at a time.)



        If you want to avoid grimdark, just remember that realistic life, even in terrible circumstances, has variety, and some of that variety is pleasant. And show that things are not entirely hopeless. In particular, even when the larger arc is looking quite negative, small joys and small triumphs in the present go a long way to lightening the tone. ("My prince - you're really alive? Can it be true?")



        That's more or less all there is to it.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 2





          I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

          – DJ Spicy Deluxe
          9 hours ago






        • 1





          @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

          – Jedediah
          8 hours ago














        8












        8








        8







        Realism means variety, because real life isn't all one thing



        To some degree, you've answered your own question:




        I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen




        If a little kid's parents die, show him sometimes forgetting to mourn and having fun instead. If petty nobles end up ruling their fiefs unsupervised, show some of them actually caring for the commoners under them, and getting along okay. (Even if they're reasonably worried that they'll be helpless if the big bad neighboring noble notices they're not united, and might come snapping up their bit territories one at a time.)



        If you want to avoid grimdark, just remember that realistic life, even in terrible circumstances, has variety, and some of that variety is pleasant. And show that things are not entirely hopeless. In particular, even when the larger arc is looking quite negative, small joys and small triumphs in the present go a long way to lightening the tone. ("My prince - you're really alive? Can it be true?")



        That's more or less all there is to it.






        share|improve this answer













        Realism means variety, because real life isn't all one thing



        To some degree, you've answered your own question:




        I want there still to be hope in the story after these two events happen




        If a little kid's parents die, show him sometimes forgetting to mourn and having fun instead. If petty nobles end up ruling their fiefs unsupervised, show some of them actually caring for the commoners under them, and getting along okay. (Even if they're reasonably worried that they'll be helpless if the big bad neighboring noble notices they're not united, and might come snapping up their bit territories one at a time.)



        If you want to avoid grimdark, just remember that realistic life, even in terrible circumstances, has variety, and some of that variety is pleasant. And show that things are not entirely hopeless. In particular, even when the larger arc is looking quite negative, small joys and small triumphs in the present go a long way to lightening the tone. ("My prince - you're really alive? Can it be true?")



        That's more or less all there is to it.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 10 hours ago









        JedediahJedediah

        3,895818




        3,895818








        • 2





          I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

          – DJ Spicy Deluxe
          9 hours ago






        • 1





          @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

          – Jedediah
          8 hours ago














        • 2





          I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

          – DJ Spicy Deluxe
          9 hours ago






        • 1





          @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

          – Jedediah
          8 hours ago








        2




        2





        I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

        – DJ Spicy Deluxe
        9 hours ago





        I do agree with showing the kid have fun and the fiefs being kind, but make sure not to skip the kid mourning and some fiefs being mean too! You should have both.

        – DJ Spicy Deluxe
        9 hours ago




        1




        1





        @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

        – Jedediah
        8 hours ago





        @DJSpicyDeluxe Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

        – Jedediah
        8 hours ago











        1














        They say you shouldn't show gore, if you want it to have an emotional impact. Instead, show a teddy bear, or some other child's toy, sitting abandoned, or placed by a grave.



        The same can hold true for the opposite. You want to show it isn't grimdark, then show hope, show life. Kids playing in the streets as their mothers call them in for supper. Show women hanging their laundry in their back yards. Show a festival, with happy faces and music and dancing.



        If the fiefs are now 'independent', show one of them thriving. Show a market place with fresh foods and goods. Show adventurers' guilds thriving (if that's part of the world). Show trade continuing.



        But also show that some of the fiefs don't get along--disparaging comments about 'those' people kicking up trouble. Show petty squabbles between neighbouring towns, even.



        It has to make sense in the bigger picture. So, don't show that life is just dandy, but don't let it be misery porn either. There needs to be something worth protecting, but there needs to be something that needs to change as well--that's where the story comes from, after all.






        share|improve this answer




























          1














          They say you shouldn't show gore, if you want it to have an emotional impact. Instead, show a teddy bear, or some other child's toy, sitting abandoned, or placed by a grave.



          The same can hold true for the opposite. You want to show it isn't grimdark, then show hope, show life. Kids playing in the streets as their mothers call them in for supper. Show women hanging their laundry in their back yards. Show a festival, with happy faces and music and dancing.



          If the fiefs are now 'independent', show one of them thriving. Show a market place with fresh foods and goods. Show adventurers' guilds thriving (if that's part of the world). Show trade continuing.



          But also show that some of the fiefs don't get along--disparaging comments about 'those' people kicking up trouble. Show petty squabbles between neighbouring towns, even.



          It has to make sense in the bigger picture. So, don't show that life is just dandy, but don't let it be misery porn either. There needs to be something worth protecting, but there needs to be something that needs to change as well--that's where the story comes from, after all.






          share|improve this answer


























            1












            1








            1







            They say you shouldn't show gore, if you want it to have an emotional impact. Instead, show a teddy bear, or some other child's toy, sitting abandoned, or placed by a grave.



            The same can hold true for the opposite. You want to show it isn't grimdark, then show hope, show life. Kids playing in the streets as their mothers call them in for supper. Show women hanging their laundry in their back yards. Show a festival, with happy faces and music and dancing.



            If the fiefs are now 'independent', show one of them thriving. Show a market place with fresh foods and goods. Show adventurers' guilds thriving (if that's part of the world). Show trade continuing.



            But also show that some of the fiefs don't get along--disparaging comments about 'those' people kicking up trouble. Show petty squabbles between neighbouring towns, even.



            It has to make sense in the bigger picture. So, don't show that life is just dandy, but don't let it be misery porn either. There needs to be something worth protecting, but there needs to be something that needs to change as well--that's where the story comes from, after all.






            share|improve this answer













            They say you shouldn't show gore, if you want it to have an emotional impact. Instead, show a teddy bear, or some other child's toy, sitting abandoned, or placed by a grave.



            The same can hold true for the opposite. You want to show it isn't grimdark, then show hope, show life. Kids playing in the streets as their mothers call them in for supper. Show women hanging their laundry in their back yards. Show a festival, with happy faces and music and dancing.



            If the fiefs are now 'independent', show one of them thriving. Show a market place with fresh foods and goods. Show adventurers' guilds thriving (if that's part of the world). Show trade continuing.



            But also show that some of the fiefs don't get along--disparaging comments about 'those' people kicking up trouble. Show petty squabbles between neighbouring towns, even.



            It has to make sense in the bigger picture. So, don't show that life is just dandy, but don't let it be misery porn either. There needs to be something worth protecting, but there needs to be something that needs to change as well--that's where the story comes from, after all.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 7 hours ago









            Fayth85Fayth85

            5,065725




            5,065725























                1














                Realistically, life sucks, but most of us manage to find hope somewhere. Sometimes little girls have to grow up too fast and sometimes we have to deal with messes other people make.



                It sounds like your young lady is going to have a lot of tears and fight some battles she's not ready for. Let her fight. Let her cry. But, make it worth it in the end. “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Don't forget to let her laugh sometimes too. Give her some battles she can win, so she gains the confidence to keep trying after the ones she loses.



                Your long-lost prince is going to have to pull up his big boy pants and learn some diplomacy and negotiation skills. The entire structure of his kingdom has been altered and he's going to have to work with that. He may never have the same amount of control as the previous king, but that’s life.



                Give both of your characters failures and successes. Heavy consequences for bad decisions aren't necessarily grimdark. They are learning experiences. They develop character and make the few victories that much sweeter.



                As you plan out these successes and failures, some avenues of hope will emerge and, hopefully, you will begin to see the pathways towards a happy ending. Or, at least, an ending everyone can deal with.






                share|improve this answer




























                  1














                  Realistically, life sucks, but most of us manage to find hope somewhere. Sometimes little girls have to grow up too fast and sometimes we have to deal with messes other people make.



                  It sounds like your young lady is going to have a lot of tears and fight some battles she's not ready for. Let her fight. Let her cry. But, make it worth it in the end. “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Don't forget to let her laugh sometimes too. Give her some battles she can win, so she gains the confidence to keep trying after the ones she loses.



                  Your long-lost prince is going to have to pull up his big boy pants and learn some diplomacy and negotiation skills. The entire structure of his kingdom has been altered and he's going to have to work with that. He may never have the same amount of control as the previous king, but that’s life.



                  Give both of your characters failures and successes. Heavy consequences for bad decisions aren't necessarily grimdark. They are learning experiences. They develop character and make the few victories that much sweeter.



                  As you plan out these successes and failures, some avenues of hope will emerge and, hopefully, you will begin to see the pathways towards a happy ending. Or, at least, an ending everyone can deal with.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    Realistically, life sucks, but most of us manage to find hope somewhere. Sometimes little girls have to grow up too fast and sometimes we have to deal with messes other people make.



                    It sounds like your young lady is going to have a lot of tears and fight some battles she's not ready for. Let her fight. Let her cry. But, make it worth it in the end. “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Don't forget to let her laugh sometimes too. Give her some battles she can win, so she gains the confidence to keep trying after the ones she loses.



                    Your long-lost prince is going to have to pull up his big boy pants and learn some diplomacy and negotiation skills. The entire structure of his kingdom has been altered and he's going to have to work with that. He may never have the same amount of control as the previous king, but that’s life.



                    Give both of your characters failures and successes. Heavy consequences for bad decisions aren't necessarily grimdark. They are learning experiences. They develop character and make the few victories that much sweeter.



                    As you plan out these successes and failures, some avenues of hope will emerge and, hopefully, you will begin to see the pathways towards a happy ending. Or, at least, an ending everyone can deal with.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Realistically, life sucks, but most of us manage to find hope somewhere. Sometimes little girls have to grow up too fast and sometimes we have to deal with messes other people make.



                    It sounds like your young lady is going to have a lot of tears and fight some battles she's not ready for. Let her fight. Let her cry. But, make it worth it in the end. “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Don't forget to let her laugh sometimes too. Give her some battles she can win, so she gains the confidence to keep trying after the ones she loses.



                    Your long-lost prince is going to have to pull up his big boy pants and learn some diplomacy and negotiation skills. The entire structure of his kingdom has been altered and he's going to have to work with that. He may never have the same amount of control as the previous king, but that’s life.



                    Give both of your characters failures and successes. Heavy consequences for bad decisions aren't necessarily grimdark. They are learning experiences. They develop character and make the few victories that much sweeter.



                    As you plan out these successes and failures, some avenues of hope will emerge and, hopefully, you will begin to see the pathways towards a happy ending. Or, at least, an ending everyone can deal with.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 6 hours ago









                    matildalee23matildalee23

                    5797




                    5797























                        1














                        Heroes Have Consequences.



                        Heroes cause major changes, and every major change is likely to be negative for somebody, and often that person is an innocent. No matter what the setting, defeating evil is meaningless if the evil is not ruining lives (or about to ruin them). It may take a war to defeat the evil, but in the process soldiers die on both sides, and the soldiers are the sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters of innocents that were not evil, but caught up in forces far greater than themselves. When the righteous prevail in a war, they make the world a better place, but there is always a cost.



                        Being heroes, I presume they had no real choice but to kill the minor lord. He was ruining lives somehow, sacrificing the lives of his soldiers over petty personal disputes, taxing his people into poverty, or hanging them or crucifying them for dissent, or raping their daughters, whatever.



                        But in the process of making the world a better place for his subjects, they harmed an innocent -- They orphaned an innocent girl.



                        What you can do about it, as an author, is find a way to let them be heroes again. They don't have to kill the lord and walk away. Let's say, upon the lord's death, some member of his evil entourage has designs on taking his place -- He wants to murder the daughter to clear his path. And even though she blames them for his death, in front of her they save her life. She knows it. This proves to her which members of the court are loyal to the crown. Now the dilemma is on her, does she order the traitors killed? Orphan their wives and children? She does, because their crime must have public consequences, but at their execution she announces that their wives and children are henceforth wards of the crown and under her protection.



                        Your returning prince feels like he abandoned his people. Maybe he did, maybe he was thoughtless. He was off making the world a better place, but there are always consequences to innocents, including his people. He can't undo those consequences, but he is a hero, his friends are heroes. How can he, or the group, be heroes again in these circumstances? Can they kill the worst of the overlords? Is there some way to put this country back on the right track? Can they kill the idiot magician and install a diplomat that can reunite the country? Say, the one noble that has done the best job of running his territory for the good of his people, instead of himself. Even if the prince will leave again, perhaps his little band of heroes can forge an alliance of nobles by eliminating an obstacle in their way; a tyrant or two that separate them.



                        The heroes are your engine of hope, their job is to make the world better, even if they are the ones that screwed it up.



                        It doesn't mean they erase the consequences. The little girl is an orphan. Lives were ruined and lost in the country. But they step up and create a hopeful path for going forward.






                        share|improve this answer






























                          1














                          Heroes Have Consequences.



                          Heroes cause major changes, and every major change is likely to be negative for somebody, and often that person is an innocent. No matter what the setting, defeating evil is meaningless if the evil is not ruining lives (or about to ruin them). It may take a war to defeat the evil, but in the process soldiers die on both sides, and the soldiers are the sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters of innocents that were not evil, but caught up in forces far greater than themselves. When the righteous prevail in a war, they make the world a better place, but there is always a cost.



                          Being heroes, I presume they had no real choice but to kill the minor lord. He was ruining lives somehow, sacrificing the lives of his soldiers over petty personal disputes, taxing his people into poverty, or hanging them or crucifying them for dissent, or raping their daughters, whatever.



                          But in the process of making the world a better place for his subjects, they harmed an innocent -- They orphaned an innocent girl.



                          What you can do about it, as an author, is find a way to let them be heroes again. They don't have to kill the lord and walk away. Let's say, upon the lord's death, some member of his evil entourage has designs on taking his place -- He wants to murder the daughter to clear his path. And even though she blames them for his death, in front of her they save her life. She knows it. This proves to her which members of the court are loyal to the crown. Now the dilemma is on her, does she order the traitors killed? Orphan their wives and children? She does, because their crime must have public consequences, but at their execution she announces that their wives and children are henceforth wards of the crown and under her protection.



                          Your returning prince feels like he abandoned his people. Maybe he did, maybe he was thoughtless. He was off making the world a better place, but there are always consequences to innocents, including his people. He can't undo those consequences, but he is a hero, his friends are heroes. How can he, or the group, be heroes again in these circumstances? Can they kill the worst of the overlords? Is there some way to put this country back on the right track? Can they kill the idiot magician and install a diplomat that can reunite the country? Say, the one noble that has done the best job of running his territory for the good of his people, instead of himself. Even if the prince will leave again, perhaps his little band of heroes can forge an alliance of nobles by eliminating an obstacle in their way; a tyrant or two that separate them.



                          The heroes are your engine of hope, their job is to make the world better, even if they are the ones that screwed it up.



                          It doesn't mean they erase the consequences. The little girl is an orphan. Lives were ruined and lost in the country. But they step up and create a hopeful path for going forward.






                          share|improve this answer




























                            1












                            1








                            1







                            Heroes Have Consequences.



                            Heroes cause major changes, and every major change is likely to be negative for somebody, and often that person is an innocent. No matter what the setting, defeating evil is meaningless if the evil is not ruining lives (or about to ruin them). It may take a war to defeat the evil, but in the process soldiers die on both sides, and the soldiers are the sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters of innocents that were not evil, but caught up in forces far greater than themselves. When the righteous prevail in a war, they make the world a better place, but there is always a cost.



                            Being heroes, I presume they had no real choice but to kill the minor lord. He was ruining lives somehow, sacrificing the lives of his soldiers over petty personal disputes, taxing his people into poverty, or hanging them or crucifying them for dissent, or raping their daughters, whatever.



                            But in the process of making the world a better place for his subjects, they harmed an innocent -- They orphaned an innocent girl.



                            What you can do about it, as an author, is find a way to let them be heroes again. They don't have to kill the lord and walk away. Let's say, upon the lord's death, some member of his evil entourage has designs on taking his place -- He wants to murder the daughter to clear his path. And even though she blames them for his death, in front of her they save her life. She knows it. This proves to her which members of the court are loyal to the crown. Now the dilemma is on her, does she order the traitors killed? Orphan their wives and children? She does, because their crime must have public consequences, but at their execution she announces that their wives and children are henceforth wards of the crown and under her protection.



                            Your returning prince feels like he abandoned his people. Maybe he did, maybe he was thoughtless. He was off making the world a better place, but there are always consequences to innocents, including his people. He can't undo those consequences, but he is a hero, his friends are heroes. How can he, or the group, be heroes again in these circumstances? Can they kill the worst of the overlords? Is there some way to put this country back on the right track? Can they kill the idiot magician and install a diplomat that can reunite the country? Say, the one noble that has done the best job of running his territory for the good of his people, instead of himself. Even if the prince will leave again, perhaps his little band of heroes can forge an alliance of nobles by eliminating an obstacle in their way; a tyrant or two that separate them.



                            The heroes are your engine of hope, their job is to make the world better, even if they are the ones that screwed it up.



                            It doesn't mean they erase the consequences. The little girl is an orphan. Lives were ruined and lost in the country. But they step up and create a hopeful path for going forward.






                            share|improve this answer















                            Heroes Have Consequences.



                            Heroes cause major changes, and every major change is likely to be negative for somebody, and often that person is an innocent. No matter what the setting, defeating evil is meaningless if the evil is not ruining lives (or about to ruin them). It may take a war to defeat the evil, but in the process soldiers die on both sides, and the soldiers are the sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters of innocents that were not evil, but caught up in forces far greater than themselves. When the righteous prevail in a war, they make the world a better place, but there is always a cost.



                            Being heroes, I presume they had no real choice but to kill the minor lord. He was ruining lives somehow, sacrificing the lives of his soldiers over petty personal disputes, taxing his people into poverty, or hanging them or crucifying them for dissent, or raping their daughters, whatever.



                            But in the process of making the world a better place for his subjects, they harmed an innocent -- They orphaned an innocent girl.



                            What you can do about it, as an author, is find a way to let them be heroes again. They don't have to kill the lord and walk away. Let's say, upon the lord's death, some member of his evil entourage has designs on taking his place -- He wants to murder the daughter to clear his path. And even though she blames them for his death, in front of her they save her life. She knows it. This proves to her which members of the court are loyal to the crown. Now the dilemma is on her, does she order the traitors killed? Orphan their wives and children? She does, because their crime must have public consequences, but at their execution she announces that their wives and children are henceforth wards of the crown and under her protection.



                            Your returning prince feels like he abandoned his people. Maybe he did, maybe he was thoughtless. He was off making the world a better place, but there are always consequences to innocents, including his people. He can't undo those consequences, but he is a hero, his friends are heroes. How can he, or the group, be heroes again in these circumstances? Can they kill the worst of the overlords? Is there some way to put this country back on the right track? Can they kill the idiot magician and install a diplomat that can reunite the country? Say, the one noble that has done the best job of running his territory for the good of his people, instead of himself. Even if the prince will leave again, perhaps his little band of heroes can forge an alliance of nobles by eliminating an obstacle in their way; a tyrant or two that separate them.



                            The heroes are your engine of hope, their job is to make the world better, even if they are the ones that screwed it up.



                            It doesn't mean they erase the consequences. The little girl is an orphan. Lives were ruined and lost in the country. But they step up and create a hopeful path for going forward.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 1 hour ago

























                            answered 5 hours ago









                            AmadeusAmadeus

                            62.7k781201




                            62.7k781201






























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded




















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Writing Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fwriting.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f45575%2fhow-to-provide-realism-without-making-readers-think-grimdark%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Hudson River Historic District Contents Geography History The district today Aesthetics Cultural...

                                The number designs the writing. Feandra Aversely Definition: The act of ingrafting a sprig or shoot of one...

                                Ayherre Geografie Demografie Externe links Navigatiemenu43° 23′ NB, 1° 15′ WL43° 23′ NB, 1°...