Should I be an author on another PhD student's paper if I went to their meetings and gave advice?Is it a bad...
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Should I be an author on another PhD student's paper if I went to their meetings and gave advice?
Is it a bad idea to submit a paper merely to elicit reviewers' comments?review paper and authorship of ex supervisorWhat's the best way to inform a supervisor of collaboration on papers with a different professor?I wrote the whole paper, but did only a very small part of the research. PhD student wants to be first author, but didn't write. Is this okay?Resolving authorship when PhD student does most of the work on paper, but originally agreed to support another PhD student (first author)?Why would my former colleagues acknowledge me for a nonexistent contribution?I (independently) solved a fellow student's research problem. I want to publish it. What should I do?Coauthorship across communities with differing standardsShould I refuse to be named as co-author of a low quality paper?
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My PhD supervisor (in the field of artificial intelligence) invited me to several meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topics, I made many suggestions about how this student could improve his methodology. In total, I went to 5 meetings of 3-4 hours each. I could have used this time to do my own research.
When the other student started to write his manuscript, I asked to be an author, since I had contributed directly to the research. But he felt I only deserved to appear in the acknowledgments. So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and even volunteered to help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulted that they used my time and skills with no benefit to me.
I didn't actively do the research or help writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have the most experience on this topic. Many academics in my field get their names on papers by just giving suggestions.
What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order
New contributor
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show 8 more comments
My PhD supervisor (in the field of artificial intelligence) invited me to several meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topics, I made many suggestions about how this student could improve his methodology. In total, I went to 5 meetings of 3-4 hours each. I could have used this time to do my own research.
When the other student started to write his manuscript, I asked to be an author, since I had contributed directly to the research. But he felt I only deserved to appear in the acknowledgments. So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and even volunteered to help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulted that they used my time and skills with no benefit to me.
I didn't actively do the research or help writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have the most experience on this topic. Many academics in my field get their names on papers by just giving suggestions.
What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order
New contributor
1
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
7
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
2
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
1
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
My PhD supervisor (in the field of artificial intelligence) invited me to several meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topics, I made many suggestions about how this student could improve his methodology. In total, I went to 5 meetings of 3-4 hours each. I could have used this time to do my own research.
When the other student started to write his manuscript, I asked to be an author, since I had contributed directly to the research. But he felt I only deserved to appear in the acknowledgments. So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and even volunteered to help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulted that they used my time and skills with no benefit to me.
I didn't actively do the research or help writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have the most experience on this topic. Many academics in my field get their names on papers by just giving suggestions.
What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order
New contributor
My PhD supervisor (in the field of artificial intelligence) invited me to several meetings with his other PhD student. Since I have more knowledge than my supervisor in some topics, I made many suggestions about how this student could improve his methodology. In total, I went to 5 meetings of 3-4 hours each. I could have used this time to do my own research.
When the other student started to write his manuscript, I asked to be an author, since I had contributed directly to the research. But he felt I only deserved to appear in the acknowledgments. So I asked my supervisor to be on the paper and even volunteered to help writing it. My supervisor said "Don't worry about his paper, you have your own things to do, and he is not going to submit this work anytime soon".
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulted that they used my time and skills with no benefit to me.
I didn't actively do the research or help writing the paper. But I felt I was supervising the student since I have the most experience on this topic. Many academics in my field get their names on papers by just giving suggestions.
What should I do? I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order
publications paper-submission authorship acknowledgement author-order
New contributor
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1
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
7
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
2
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
1
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
1
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
7
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
2
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
1
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago
1
1
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
7
7
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
2
2
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
1
1
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.
You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.
Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.
But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.
Pay it forward.
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.
How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!
In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.
As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.
Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.
You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.
Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
add a comment
|
In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.
Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.
add a comment
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It's possible that your supervisor and your cuckoo think that you don't deserve co-authorship because they didn't let you edit the paper before submitting it. But the amount of time you spent providing needed advice and guidance in my opinion deserves more than a mere acknowledgement.
That said, raising a stink about this paper isn't going to be helpful to you. You need to finish your own degree, and making an ennemy of your advisor is not the way to get there. In addition, most department chairs are not real managers, and all they'd do with such a request is flee, not try to help you over the opinion of their colleague. So you should probably just let this slide, and maybe try to get an acknowledgement in the final published product.
But you should also pay attention to what this incident says about your advisor. Pursue every possible opportunity to publish with other people! If possible far-away people who don't have any institutional links with him. Be very sure that all help you provide him in your field of expertise will bring you at least co-authorship on whatever the project is, negotiating that up front. Make sure he doesn't just suck you dry for the duration of your studies. Don't outright refuse to cooperate, but be vague and unavailable if necessary.
add a comment
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I have a bi-weekly meeting with my MSc and Ph.D. students that some time is 6 hours long. We discuss ideas and brainstorming solutions; they work on different subjects. When I was doing my Ph.D, I designed an algorithm from A-Z gave it to an MSc student to implement, he published a paper I did not co-author it and did not ask to be a co-author. Why that? because I was a fully-funded Ph.D. student, this is my work I was hired to do that and this was part of my training.
Now, I am a supervisor, and I am on every paper of my MSc and Ph.D. students work. I secure funds for all of them to work on their research.
Are you a fully-funded Ph.D. student, if yes then do not complain you are professional research, not an undergraduate student working on a group assignment if you are not a fully-funded Ph.D. student, then I do not understand why you are doing a Ph.D. Because, if you are that strong and knowledgeable than your supervisor and at the same time not funded, then I strongly suggest that you switch supervisor.
In the future, please tell your supervisor you are busy with your research point and do not go to these meetings.
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7 Answers
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Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.
You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.
Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.
But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.
Pay it forward.
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.
You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.
Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.
But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.
Pay it forward.
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.
You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.
Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.
But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.
Pay it forward.
Actually, I think you should relax and take your advisor's advice. Collaboration is a good thing, and it is a two-way street. You give a bit and you get a bit. I assume you got an acknowledgement in the paper for your help. I don't think it would be appropriate if you weren't. But authorship is a different thing.
You contributed ideas. Research seminars are often organized to give ideas to researchers but the members don't become co-authors in the normal case.
Congratulate your colleague and, as your advisor suggests, spend your effort on your own work, not raising an objection to someone else's.
But, it is good that you contributed ideas. Do that a lot and you will have a lot of people willing and happy to work with you. Occasionally you may need that help.
Pay it forward.
answered 14 hours ago
BuffyBuffy
85k22 gold badges261 silver badges372 bronze badges
85k22 gold badges261 silver badges372 bronze badges
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
3
3
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
I contributed much more in the development of the paper than my supervisor that doesn't know much about the topic. Why should he be on the paper? In the end who wrote the paper was the PhD student and his co-supervisor.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
7
7
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
But ask yourself what will be the long term consequences of either letting it go or raising a stink. Don't take an action you will regret. This isn't the only paper, or the most important paper, you will ever be involved with. Don't treat it as a do or die situation, lest it become one.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
2
2
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
I usually like Buffy's answers, but this one does not convince me. The supervisor only vaguely indicated that OP would not be coauthor ("Don't worry..."). You could either express 1. in a subdued fashion a certain "feeling of being let down" (i.e. disappointment, but that word is too undiplomatic in your position); or, 2. probably safer, for the next time, to agree on modality of co-authorship before helping. I suggest letting this one go and, going forward, go for 2. That being said, being generous in helping can pay off in the long run compared to jealously guarding your knowledge.
– Captain Emacs
7 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
@buffy theres nothing wrong with putting your foot in the door and calling BS when you see it. Supervisor or not... who gives a crap? Injustice can occur at all levels. I think OP should voice their opinion and say out loud that they think this is unfair. Though I dont think it needs to be escalated beyond the supervisor.
– user32882
6 hours ago
4
4
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
@user32882, hmmm "Supervisor or not... who gives a crap?". Maybe the supervisor. I don't know. But I do think that accusing your supervisor of unethical behavior isn't a great move if you want a future in academia. You can express your disappointment, but "calling BS" is a bit dangerous. Think long term as a student. Not the next paper, but the career. You want and need allies.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.
How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!
In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.
How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!
In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.
How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!
In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!
I am planing in taking it to the head of department.
Let me assure you that this is a bad idea. 99 times out of 100 the department head will not intervene in these matters. Moreover even if he does (again, super unlikely), and you get your way about this paper, I assure you that this will forever mar your relationship with your advisor. I would be extremely upset if one of my students went over my head like this.
How about you have a discussion with your advisor about how you feel? What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies between research groups, so I would not be so quick to decide that your contribution suffices (nor am I in a better position than your advisor to make this call). Maybe you can be more involved in follow ups? In relating this work to your own? As Buffy mentions, you’re not just letting it go because it’s the way it is, it’s also because being adversarial will have far reaching repercussions beyond this one paper!
In my experience, a collaborative approach pays dividends in the long run: be the person people want to talk research with!
answered 13 hours ago
SparkSpark
12k4 gold badges26 silver badges47 bronze badges
12k4 gold badges26 silver badges47 bronze badges
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Yes, bad, bad, idea
– Buffy
13 hours ago
3
3
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
+1 for the last sentence alone - the more you talk with other people the more they will talk with you, and often just the talking will prod some part of your brain to reconsider a problem in a new light, whether you were talking about it or not.
– Jon Custer
12 hours ago
1
1
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
I think its a bit weird and pretentious that "you woould be extremely upset if one of your students went over your head like this". So then what should a student do if they feel you are bullying or otherwise mistreating them? You want to scare them into staying quiet? Thank God Im not your student.
– user32882
6 hours ago
1
1
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
I don't think that is a comparable situation directly with what is known, they're just saying to bring it up with the supervisor first again. The point is to not pull the trigger too quickly else cause some irreversible problems. Especially since there seems to be an argument on whether he even was mistreated. Either way, can't get the best of both worlds. Have to decide which you would prefer, the other post/comment seem to just be giving which choice ends up being better for him in their opinion, not necessarily the most moral choice.
– Chrismon Chin
5 hours ago
1
1
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
+1 for "What constitutes author worthy contribution highly varies"
– J. Chris Compton
5 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.
As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.
Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.
You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.
Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
add a comment
|
When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.
As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.
Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.
You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.
Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
add a comment
|
When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.
As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.
Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.
You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.
Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.
When the PhD student started to write a paper about it, I asked him to be on the paper, since I felt I contributed directly to his research. But he said I just gave him suggestions and he could add me in the acknowledgments, not as co-author. And he said I should ask my supervisor if I deserve to be on the paper.
As a general rule, contributing ideas, providing feedback, inspiring others does not qualify a person for authorship. During such discussions, we think and state our own views and ideas without paying much heed to the legwork involved for implementing the same.
Making those ideas come to life are an entirely different thing.
One week later, they submitted the paper to a major conference without my name on it. I felt really insulting that they used my time and my skills with no benefit for me.
You have gained plenty from these discussions. You got to parade your knowledge and mind before others. You draw inspiration from them and later on you may gain a formal collaboration. Also, you gained an acknowledgement. Anything more, would be injustice to the authors involved in the paper.
Science rarely progresses without discussion with people from diverse backgrounds. That is what makes science inter-disciplinary.
answered 14 hours ago
FoldedChromatinFoldedChromatin
4132 silver badges9 bronze badges
4132 silver badges9 bronze badges
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
add a comment
|
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
2
2
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
So my supervisor also shouldn't be on the paper by this general rule, should I said it to him? My supervisor invited me for the meeting since he doesn't know about the topic and wanted someone else to help to "supervise" the PhD student.
– user1998012
13 hours ago
8
8
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
In some fields, the supervisor is on every paper no matter the specific contribution. Not necessarily the best practice, but it is very common and accepted/required in some fields. Especially if the PI has established a lab via grant money.
– Buffy
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
Whether or not your supervisor should be on the other student's paper is a different question. They are your direct supervisor, not theirs. And I am very sure, this person does in no way fulfill the role of a supervisor for that student. Because, "supervise" is a very broad term for defining the role of a supervisor. For academia, it includes providing resources, mentorship, presentation skills, constructive criticism, meltdown control, an idol (sometimes), praise and funding. That is the tip of the iceberg for what a supervisor is.
– FoldedChromatin
13 hours ago
add a comment
|
In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.
In the future I’d suggest being clearer about whether a project is joint work earlier in the process. It doesn’t sound to me from your description that you deserve coauthorship, but I do see why you feel shortchanged. The earlier on that you have this conversation the less chance there is for miscommunication and hurt feelings.
answered 12 hours ago
Noah SnyderNoah Snyder
18.6k2 gold badges45 silver badges84 bronze badges
18.6k2 gold badges45 silver badges84 bronze badges
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
3
3
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
The one part I do find concerning is that your advisor may have lied about when it was being submitted. If it were me, and probably a wiser person wouldn’t do this, I’d ask what happened with the submission when they told me it wasn’t being submitted soon and if I didn’t feel like I could trust the advisor after their response I might consider switching advisors. Not in the main answer because it’s probably bad advice.
– Noah Snyder
12 hours ago
1
1
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
But don't assume there was deception. A change of plans can arise naturally as well.
– Buffy
12 hours ago
add a comment
|
The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.
Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.
add a comment
|
The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.
Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.
add a comment
|
The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.
Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.
The other answers cover most of the points but I’d just like to add that submission doesn’t necessarily equate with acceptance. They may have rushed this paper slightly to meet a conference deadline and neglected you in the rush to submit. They may be planning a journal submission after the conference and would like to collaborate with you on this. The supervisor/student may have decided to "take a punt" on this conference, knowing that the paper will be reviewed quickly and that reviewers' comments will be useful even if it is a likely rejection.
Bottom line: don’t take it personally. Consider if you want an authorship on a paper that you have had no direct control over.
answered 8 hours ago
PamPam
5242 silver badges9 bronze badges
5242 silver badges9 bronze badges
add a comment
|
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|
It's possible that your supervisor and your cuckoo think that you don't deserve co-authorship because they didn't let you edit the paper before submitting it. But the amount of time you spent providing needed advice and guidance in my opinion deserves more than a mere acknowledgement.
That said, raising a stink about this paper isn't going to be helpful to you. You need to finish your own degree, and making an ennemy of your advisor is not the way to get there. In addition, most department chairs are not real managers, and all they'd do with such a request is flee, not try to help you over the opinion of their colleague. So you should probably just let this slide, and maybe try to get an acknowledgement in the final published product.
But you should also pay attention to what this incident says about your advisor. Pursue every possible opportunity to publish with other people! If possible far-away people who don't have any institutional links with him. Be very sure that all help you provide him in your field of expertise will bring you at least co-authorship on whatever the project is, negotiating that up front. Make sure he doesn't just suck you dry for the duration of your studies. Don't outright refuse to cooperate, but be vague and unavailable if necessary.
add a comment
|
It's possible that your supervisor and your cuckoo think that you don't deserve co-authorship because they didn't let you edit the paper before submitting it. But the amount of time you spent providing needed advice and guidance in my opinion deserves more than a mere acknowledgement.
That said, raising a stink about this paper isn't going to be helpful to you. You need to finish your own degree, and making an ennemy of your advisor is not the way to get there. In addition, most department chairs are not real managers, and all they'd do with such a request is flee, not try to help you over the opinion of their colleague. So you should probably just let this slide, and maybe try to get an acknowledgement in the final published product.
But you should also pay attention to what this incident says about your advisor. Pursue every possible opportunity to publish with other people! If possible far-away people who don't have any institutional links with him. Be very sure that all help you provide him in your field of expertise will bring you at least co-authorship on whatever the project is, negotiating that up front. Make sure he doesn't just suck you dry for the duration of your studies. Don't outright refuse to cooperate, but be vague and unavailable if necessary.
add a comment
|
It's possible that your supervisor and your cuckoo think that you don't deserve co-authorship because they didn't let you edit the paper before submitting it. But the amount of time you spent providing needed advice and guidance in my opinion deserves more than a mere acknowledgement.
That said, raising a stink about this paper isn't going to be helpful to you. You need to finish your own degree, and making an ennemy of your advisor is not the way to get there. In addition, most department chairs are not real managers, and all they'd do with such a request is flee, not try to help you over the opinion of their colleague. So you should probably just let this slide, and maybe try to get an acknowledgement in the final published product.
But you should also pay attention to what this incident says about your advisor. Pursue every possible opportunity to publish with other people! If possible far-away people who don't have any institutional links with him. Be very sure that all help you provide him in your field of expertise will bring you at least co-authorship on whatever the project is, negotiating that up front. Make sure he doesn't just suck you dry for the duration of your studies. Don't outright refuse to cooperate, but be vague and unavailable if necessary.
It's possible that your supervisor and your cuckoo think that you don't deserve co-authorship because they didn't let you edit the paper before submitting it. But the amount of time you spent providing needed advice and guidance in my opinion deserves more than a mere acknowledgement.
That said, raising a stink about this paper isn't going to be helpful to you. You need to finish your own degree, and making an ennemy of your advisor is not the way to get there. In addition, most department chairs are not real managers, and all they'd do with such a request is flee, not try to help you over the opinion of their colleague. So you should probably just let this slide, and maybe try to get an acknowledgement in the final published product.
But you should also pay attention to what this incident says about your advisor. Pursue every possible opportunity to publish with other people! If possible far-away people who don't have any institutional links with him. Be very sure that all help you provide him in your field of expertise will bring you at least co-authorship on whatever the project is, negotiating that up front. Make sure he doesn't just suck you dry for the duration of your studies. Don't outright refuse to cooperate, but be vague and unavailable if necessary.
answered 4 hours ago
George MGeorge M
2265 bronze badges
2265 bronze badges
add a comment
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I have a bi-weekly meeting with my MSc and Ph.D. students that some time is 6 hours long. We discuss ideas and brainstorming solutions; they work on different subjects. When I was doing my Ph.D, I designed an algorithm from A-Z gave it to an MSc student to implement, he published a paper I did not co-author it and did not ask to be a co-author. Why that? because I was a fully-funded Ph.D. student, this is my work I was hired to do that and this was part of my training.
Now, I am a supervisor, and I am on every paper of my MSc and Ph.D. students work. I secure funds for all of them to work on their research.
Are you a fully-funded Ph.D. student, if yes then do not complain you are professional research, not an undergraduate student working on a group assignment if you are not a fully-funded Ph.D. student, then I do not understand why you are doing a Ph.D. Because, if you are that strong and knowledgeable than your supervisor and at the same time not funded, then I strongly suggest that you switch supervisor.
In the future, please tell your supervisor you are busy with your research point and do not go to these meetings.
New contributor
add a comment
|
I have a bi-weekly meeting with my MSc and Ph.D. students that some time is 6 hours long. We discuss ideas and brainstorming solutions; they work on different subjects. When I was doing my Ph.D, I designed an algorithm from A-Z gave it to an MSc student to implement, he published a paper I did not co-author it and did not ask to be a co-author. Why that? because I was a fully-funded Ph.D. student, this is my work I was hired to do that and this was part of my training.
Now, I am a supervisor, and I am on every paper of my MSc and Ph.D. students work. I secure funds for all of them to work on their research.
Are you a fully-funded Ph.D. student, if yes then do not complain you are professional research, not an undergraduate student working on a group assignment if you are not a fully-funded Ph.D. student, then I do not understand why you are doing a Ph.D. Because, if you are that strong and knowledgeable than your supervisor and at the same time not funded, then I strongly suggest that you switch supervisor.
In the future, please tell your supervisor you are busy with your research point and do not go to these meetings.
New contributor
add a comment
|
I have a bi-weekly meeting with my MSc and Ph.D. students that some time is 6 hours long. We discuss ideas and brainstorming solutions; they work on different subjects. When I was doing my Ph.D, I designed an algorithm from A-Z gave it to an MSc student to implement, he published a paper I did not co-author it and did not ask to be a co-author. Why that? because I was a fully-funded Ph.D. student, this is my work I was hired to do that and this was part of my training.
Now, I am a supervisor, and I am on every paper of my MSc and Ph.D. students work. I secure funds for all of them to work on their research.
Are you a fully-funded Ph.D. student, if yes then do not complain you are professional research, not an undergraduate student working on a group assignment if you are not a fully-funded Ph.D. student, then I do not understand why you are doing a Ph.D. Because, if you are that strong and knowledgeable than your supervisor and at the same time not funded, then I strongly suggest that you switch supervisor.
In the future, please tell your supervisor you are busy with your research point and do not go to these meetings.
New contributor
I have a bi-weekly meeting with my MSc and Ph.D. students that some time is 6 hours long. We discuss ideas and brainstorming solutions; they work on different subjects. When I was doing my Ph.D, I designed an algorithm from A-Z gave it to an MSc student to implement, he published a paper I did not co-author it and did not ask to be a co-author. Why that? because I was a fully-funded Ph.D. student, this is my work I was hired to do that and this was part of my training.
Now, I am a supervisor, and I am on every paper of my MSc and Ph.D. students work. I secure funds for all of them to work on their research.
Are you a fully-funded Ph.D. student, if yes then do not complain you are professional research, not an undergraduate student working on a group assignment if you are not a fully-funded Ph.D. student, then I do not understand why you are doing a Ph.D. Because, if you are that strong and knowledgeable than your supervisor and at the same time not funded, then I strongly suggest that you switch supervisor.
In the future, please tell your supervisor you are busy with your research point and do not go to these meetings.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 7 mins ago
UbaidahUbaidah
1113 bronze badges
1113 bronze badges
New contributor
New contributor
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user1998012 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user1998012 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user1998012 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user1998012 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
I don't think this head can or will do much
– Matthias
14 hours ago
May I ask you, out of curiosity, what your research topic is? I found myself in a similar position, but reverse: I gave some advice and was included as a coauthor without expecting it.
– Pedro H. N. Vieira
11 hours ago
7
I'm surprised by the various answers suggesting that actively participating in multiple discussion sessions of several hours (in which you brought in your special experiences) would not justify authorship. I do agree to the general sentiment that talking to the department head would probably be a bad idea, but I would definitely seek clarification with the PI, and avoid a similar situation from happening again by explicitly discussing authorship explicit in the first extended discussion meeting.
– lighthouse keeper
8 hours ago
2
@Azor, in some fields, including OPs, conference proceedings are what people care most about.
– Peter Taylor
6 hours ago
1
If 15-20 h of work (which is what the author claims to have contributed) qualify me for authorship in a major conference submission, I am so going to change fields.
– Marianne013
4 hours ago