If I said I had $100 when asked, but I actually had $200, would I be lying by omission?Name for this kind of...
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If I said I had $100 when asked, but I actually had $200, would I be lying by omission?
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If you had $200 cash on you right now, and I asked you if you had $100 on you, would the correct answer be yes (always/no matter what other conditions there are), no (always/no matter what other conditions there are), or it depends on the situation?
My answer would be "yes" (always), because if someone asked me if I had $100 because he/she wanted to borrow it (and I had more than $100), then my reply would be "yes." I asked this question before (before deleting it because it was off-topic) on another stack exchange, and most of the answers were "it depends on the situation." But, I cannot imagine how it could depend on the situation.
If "it depends" if I have $100, that doesn't even make sense to me? Either I have $100 or I don't. Is the response "it depends" wrong or is it a situation of semantics?
If someone wanted to know if I had exactly $100, then he/she could ask me if I had exactly $100.
ethics philosophy-of-logic
New contributor
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show 2 more comments
If you had $200 cash on you right now, and I asked you if you had $100 on you, would the correct answer be yes (always/no matter what other conditions there are), no (always/no matter what other conditions there are), or it depends on the situation?
My answer would be "yes" (always), because if someone asked me if I had $100 because he/she wanted to borrow it (and I had more than $100), then my reply would be "yes." I asked this question before (before deleting it because it was off-topic) on another stack exchange, and most of the answers were "it depends on the situation." But, I cannot imagine how it could depend on the situation.
If "it depends" if I have $100, that doesn't even make sense to me? Either I have $100 or I don't. Is the response "it depends" wrong or is it a situation of semantics?
If someone wanted to know if I had exactly $100, then he/she could ask me if I had exactly $100.
ethics philosophy-of-logic
New contributor
you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
1
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
If you had $200 cash on you right now, and I asked you if you had $100 on you, would the correct answer be yes (always/no matter what other conditions there are), no (always/no matter what other conditions there are), or it depends on the situation?
My answer would be "yes" (always), because if someone asked me if I had $100 because he/she wanted to borrow it (and I had more than $100), then my reply would be "yes." I asked this question before (before deleting it because it was off-topic) on another stack exchange, and most of the answers were "it depends on the situation." But, I cannot imagine how it could depend on the situation.
If "it depends" if I have $100, that doesn't even make sense to me? Either I have $100 or I don't. Is the response "it depends" wrong or is it a situation of semantics?
If someone wanted to know if I had exactly $100, then he/she could ask me if I had exactly $100.
ethics philosophy-of-logic
New contributor
If you had $200 cash on you right now, and I asked you if you had $100 on you, would the correct answer be yes (always/no matter what other conditions there are), no (always/no matter what other conditions there are), or it depends on the situation?
My answer would be "yes" (always), because if someone asked me if I had $100 because he/she wanted to borrow it (and I had more than $100), then my reply would be "yes." I asked this question before (before deleting it because it was off-topic) on another stack exchange, and most of the answers were "it depends on the situation." But, I cannot imagine how it could depend on the situation.
If "it depends" if I have $100, that doesn't even make sense to me? Either I have $100 or I don't. Is the response "it depends" wrong or is it a situation of semantics?
If someone wanted to know if I had exactly $100, then he/she could ask me if I had exactly $100.
ethics philosophy-of-logic
ethics philosophy-of-logic
New contributor
New contributor
edited 10 hours ago
Yukang Jiang
New contributor
asked 12 hours ago
Yukang JiangYukang Jiang
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266 bronze badges
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New contributor
you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
1
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
1
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago
you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
1
1
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, it depends on whether the person asking you the question wants to know whether you have at least $100, or exactly $100. The question could literally mean either, and only the context can decide. The former situation is likely much more common, and includes the example you mention, in which the person wishes to borrow $100.
But consider a similar example. Suppose I tell you I have five coins in my pocket, and then I take one out and throw it away. How many coins do I have left in my pocket? Wouldn't you consider it odd if in fact I have nine, because I had ten to start with?
This is one of those cases where in order to understand the meaning of an utterance you need to judge the speaker's intention in making it. If I volunteer the information that I have five coins in my pocket, it is a reasonable presumption that I am intending to tell you exactly how many I have. But depending on the context, some other intention may be obvious. If we are standing in front of the entrance to some building that charges five coins for admission, then my saying "I have five coins in my pocket" would more likely express the intended meaning that I have enough money to afford the entrance fee, and hence that I have at least five.
This can be understood as an example of Grice's theory of conversational implicature. The speaker's intention may differ from the literal semantic meaning of a sentence, because the utterance needs to be interpreted by its audience in the light of the co-operative principle. In this case, the ambiguity in the question is resolved by what is relevant to the conversation. ("Be relevant" is one of the maxims of the co-operative principle.)
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your question is about lying by omission, and this requires that you define lying. The definition I use is a communication with the intent to deceive. Thus, whether or not you are lying is a function of your intent, more than the actual quantity of cash you have on your person.
Let's examine two cases. In the first, you have $200, and when asked you state no knowing full well that there is $200 in your wallet. In this case, yes, it is a lie.
But here's another circumstance. Let's say while transferring a $100 bill from your safe to your wallet, you accidentally grabbed a second one (they were brand new and stuck together). Now, when asked the question, if you reply yes, despite the fact that you have $200, you have not lied, omission or otherwise. This is because you committed a mistake and were not aware of this mistake. As your intention is to communicate your sincere belief, then this is simply not a lie.
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
add a comment |
If someone asks you if you have $100 and you in fact do have $100 then you are telling the truth.
The only way you could falsify that statement is if you do not have $100 which would mean you have less than that amount. It doesn't matter if you have more that $100.
Here is the question:
If you had $200, and I asked you if you had $100, would the correct answer be yes (always), no (always), or it depends on the situation?
I would agree with the OP. The answer is yes. Always. There is no lying involved.
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
add a comment |
No, You won't be lying. Why this question is raised is because of the common misunderstanding (by the person who asks for money or anything like that).
Let's build the logic (ignoring the context/situation):
- Person A: Do you have a car?
- Person B: [Has two cars] Yes.
This would clearly not be considered as lie in any situation.
So, If you say Yes for the Question asked in OP. You won't be lying as you [truly] possess $100, no matter how much more you have.
New contributor
add a comment |
tl;dr- It's a lie if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s).
More specifically, it's a lie-by-omission if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s) by neglecting to mention something that, absent their intent to deceive, they'd have otherwise said.
Lies are communications intended to deceive recipients.
It depends on if there's intent to deceive.
Examples:
Not lying:
Despite having more than $100,Person B
can truthfully answer that they have $100.
Person A
: I need to borrow some money! Do you have $100?Person B
: Yes.
Lying:
Despite having $100,Person F
can deceptively claim to have $100.
Person A
: I got you all presents! Open them up!Person B
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person C
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person D
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person E
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person F
: [Opens present to find $200, then fearing that this was an error that might be corrected, hesitates to say anything.]Person E
: Hey,Person F
, do you have $100?Person F
: Yes.
Since lying-by-omission means deceiving someone by not saying something, it typically comes up in a context in which a reasonable person wouldn't expect omission from an honest person.
In the above example, an honest Person F
could've called attention to the fact that they received $200 while everyone else only got $100, perhaps asking Person A
if this was a mistake and offering to return the money. A reasonable person could've expected Person F
to at least point out that they got $200 when prompted by Person E
.
Because Person F
crafted their communication in a manner intended to deceive, they lied.
Because Person F
's mode of lying was not providing information that a reasonable listener would've expected an honest speaker to provide, it was a lie-by-omission.
Reference: Related concepts.
There're a few things that might be confused with lies. Here I'll mention a few to help draw a line between them.
Not lies:
Honest mistakes.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so based on their own misunderstanding of what's true.
Person A:
I just got $100 in my gift envelope! Do you have $100?Person B:
[Actually received two $100-bills, but thought it was only one.] Yes.
Misunderstandings.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Asking in a context in which they mean exactly $100, assuming thatPerson B
understands this.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Has $200.] Yes.
Miscommunications.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Sends a text-message toPerson B
.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Tries to hit the auto-suggested response for "no", but accidentally hits the auto-suggested response for "yes".] Yes.
Non-true statements not intended to deceive (e.g., hyperbole or sarcasm).
A person can intentionally say something untrue without lying if the untrue statement isn't intended to deceive.
Person A:
Do either of you have $100?Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Here,
Person B
said something that was untrue (and false), but it wasn't a lie because there was no deceptive intent. Likewise,Person C
said something that was untrue (and gibberish), but it also wasn't a lie because it also lacked deceptive intent.
Note: Above, I'm distinguishing between two types of non-true statements: falsehoods and gibberish.
A false statement asserts something that isn't true. For example:
Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!
A gibberish statement ("not even false") doesn't assert anything because it doesn't mean anything. For example:
Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Secrets.
A person can keep a secret without lying by not intentionally causing a false impression in listener(s).
Person A:
Do you have $100?Person B:
I'm not telling you.
To note it, it's not generally possible to be honest while keeping secrets. The specific problem is that an asker can craft questions which are just about impossible to respond to without either revealing the secret or responding deceptively.
For example:
Lying to keep a secret:
Sometimes a secret-keeper doesn't have the option of honestly keeping a secret since a non-response or refusal to respond would be interpreted in a way that compromises the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, not me!
Failing to keep a secret through honesty:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret through honestly not revealing it.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] I'm not telling you.
This is like a partial break in cryptography: since
Person B
didn't confess,Person A
may not be certain thatPerson B
is guilty, but they still have more information about the secretive matter than before they asked.
Failing to keep a secret despite lying:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret despite lying in an attempt to maintain the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
Here,
Person B
did lie in an attempt to maintain the secret, but ended up leaking the secret despite their lie.
It's also possible to lie without deceiving listener(s) if the speaker intended to deceive listener(s). For example, in the above example,
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
, Person B
lied despite not deceiving Person A
because they intended to deceive Person A
. This is, Person B
's lie was still a lie despite Person A
seeing through it.
Conclusion: It's a lie if it's said with intent to deceive.
In short, a communication is a lie if-and-only-if there's intent-to-deceive.
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5 Answers
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I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, it depends on whether the person asking you the question wants to know whether you have at least $100, or exactly $100. The question could literally mean either, and only the context can decide. The former situation is likely much more common, and includes the example you mention, in which the person wishes to borrow $100.
But consider a similar example. Suppose I tell you I have five coins in my pocket, and then I take one out and throw it away. How many coins do I have left in my pocket? Wouldn't you consider it odd if in fact I have nine, because I had ten to start with?
This is one of those cases where in order to understand the meaning of an utterance you need to judge the speaker's intention in making it. If I volunteer the information that I have five coins in my pocket, it is a reasonable presumption that I am intending to tell you exactly how many I have. But depending on the context, some other intention may be obvious. If we are standing in front of the entrance to some building that charges five coins for admission, then my saying "I have five coins in my pocket" would more likely express the intended meaning that I have enough money to afford the entrance fee, and hence that I have at least five.
This can be understood as an example of Grice's theory of conversational implicature. The speaker's intention may differ from the literal semantic meaning of a sentence, because the utterance needs to be interpreted by its audience in the light of the co-operative principle. In this case, the ambiguity in the question is resolved by what is relevant to the conversation. ("Be relevant" is one of the maxims of the co-operative principle.)
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, it depends on whether the person asking you the question wants to know whether you have at least $100, or exactly $100. The question could literally mean either, and only the context can decide. The former situation is likely much more common, and includes the example you mention, in which the person wishes to borrow $100.
But consider a similar example. Suppose I tell you I have five coins in my pocket, and then I take one out and throw it away. How many coins do I have left in my pocket? Wouldn't you consider it odd if in fact I have nine, because I had ten to start with?
This is one of those cases where in order to understand the meaning of an utterance you need to judge the speaker's intention in making it. If I volunteer the information that I have five coins in my pocket, it is a reasonable presumption that I am intending to tell you exactly how many I have. But depending on the context, some other intention may be obvious. If we are standing in front of the entrance to some building that charges five coins for admission, then my saying "I have five coins in my pocket" would more likely express the intended meaning that I have enough money to afford the entrance fee, and hence that I have at least five.
This can be understood as an example of Grice's theory of conversational implicature. The speaker's intention may differ from the literal semantic meaning of a sentence, because the utterance needs to be interpreted by its audience in the light of the co-operative principle. In this case, the ambiguity in the question is resolved by what is relevant to the conversation. ("Be relevant" is one of the maxims of the co-operative principle.)
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, it depends on whether the person asking you the question wants to know whether you have at least $100, or exactly $100. The question could literally mean either, and only the context can decide. The former situation is likely much more common, and includes the example you mention, in which the person wishes to borrow $100.
But consider a similar example. Suppose I tell you I have five coins in my pocket, and then I take one out and throw it away. How many coins do I have left in my pocket? Wouldn't you consider it odd if in fact I have nine, because I had ten to start with?
This is one of those cases where in order to understand the meaning of an utterance you need to judge the speaker's intention in making it. If I volunteer the information that I have five coins in my pocket, it is a reasonable presumption that I am intending to tell you exactly how many I have. But depending on the context, some other intention may be obvious. If we are standing in front of the entrance to some building that charges five coins for admission, then my saying "I have five coins in my pocket" would more likely express the intended meaning that I have enough money to afford the entrance fee, and hence that I have at least five.
This can be understood as an example of Grice's theory of conversational implicature. The speaker's intention may differ from the literal semantic meaning of a sentence, because the utterance needs to be interpreted by its audience in the light of the co-operative principle. In this case, the ambiguity in the question is resolved by what is relevant to the conversation. ("Be relevant" is one of the maxims of the co-operative principle.)
I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, it depends on whether the person asking you the question wants to know whether you have at least $100, or exactly $100. The question could literally mean either, and only the context can decide. The former situation is likely much more common, and includes the example you mention, in which the person wishes to borrow $100.
But consider a similar example. Suppose I tell you I have five coins in my pocket, and then I take one out and throw it away. How many coins do I have left in my pocket? Wouldn't you consider it odd if in fact I have nine, because I had ten to start with?
This is one of those cases where in order to understand the meaning of an utterance you need to judge the speaker's intention in making it. If I volunteer the information that I have five coins in my pocket, it is a reasonable presumption that I am intending to tell you exactly how many I have. But depending on the context, some other intention may be obvious. If we are standing in front of the entrance to some building that charges five coins for admission, then my saying "I have five coins in my pocket" would more likely express the intended meaning that I have enough money to afford the entrance fee, and hence that I have at least five.
This can be understood as an example of Grice's theory of conversational implicature. The speaker's intention may differ from the literal semantic meaning of a sentence, because the utterance needs to be interpreted by its audience in the light of the co-operative principle. In this case, the ambiguity in the question is resolved by what is relevant to the conversation. ("Be relevant" is one of the maxims of the co-operative principle.)
answered 11 hours ago
BumbleBumble
8,1482 gold badges11 silver badges34 bronze badges
8,1482 gold badges11 silver badges34 bronze badges
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
add a comment |
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
i more or less agree w this. did bill have sexual relations with monica?
– another_name
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
I applaud your elaborate explanation of your answer, but I would say in the example of five coins being in your pocket, I would say it's possible for there to be nine coins afterwards. My answer would only be four coins because it refers to the context of the group of five coins. It does not mean there can't be extra coins. My reasoning is if you have five coins, then you also have four coins. If five coins are in your possession, then four coins are also in your possession. Anyways, good response.
– Yukang Jiang
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
@YukangJiang: I don't think there was an issue with having at least four coins left. The claim is that a typical person would consider the phrase "I have five coins in my pocket" to be an exact count, in that context, so stating you have five, removing one, then suddenly having nine would be construed as a deception. This isn't a simple logic question, but one about linguistic conventions and their interpretations, which leads to a fuzzy truth value, which is what this answer is trying to convey.
– MichaelS
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your question is about lying by omission, and this requires that you define lying. The definition I use is a communication with the intent to deceive. Thus, whether or not you are lying is a function of your intent, more than the actual quantity of cash you have on your person.
Let's examine two cases. In the first, you have $200, and when asked you state no knowing full well that there is $200 in your wallet. In this case, yes, it is a lie.
But here's another circumstance. Let's say while transferring a $100 bill from your safe to your wallet, you accidentally grabbed a second one (they were brand new and stuck together). Now, when asked the question, if you reply yes, despite the fact that you have $200, you have not lied, omission or otherwise. This is because you committed a mistake and were not aware of this mistake. As your intention is to communicate your sincere belief, then this is simply not a lie.
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Your question is about lying by omission, and this requires that you define lying. The definition I use is a communication with the intent to deceive. Thus, whether or not you are lying is a function of your intent, more than the actual quantity of cash you have on your person.
Let's examine two cases. In the first, you have $200, and when asked you state no knowing full well that there is $200 in your wallet. In this case, yes, it is a lie.
But here's another circumstance. Let's say while transferring a $100 bill from your safe to your wallet, you accidentally grabbed a second one (they were brand new and stuck together). Now, when asked the question, if you reply yes, despite the fact that you have $200, you have not lied, omission or otherwise. This is because you committed a mistake and were not aware of this mistake. As your intention is to communicate your sincere belief, then this is simply not a lie.
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Your question is about lying by omission, and this requires that you define lying. The definition I use is a communication with the intent to deceive. Thus, whether or not you are lying is a function of your intent, more than the actual quantity of cash you have on your person.
Let's examine two cases. In the first, you have $200, and when asked you state no knowing full well that there is $200 in your wallet. In this case, yes, it is a lie.
But here's another circumstance. Let's say while transferring a $100 bill from your safe to your wallet, you accidentally grabbed a second one (they were brand new and stuck together). Now, when asked the question, if you reply yes, despite the fact that you have $200, you have not lied, omission or otherwise. This is because you committed a mistake and were not aware of this mistake. As your intention is to communicate your sincere belief, then this is simply not a lie.
Your question is about lying by omission, and this requires that you define lying. The definition I use is a communication with the intent to deceive. Thus, whether or not you are lying is a function of your intent, more than the actual quantity of cash you have on your person.
Let's examine two cases. In the first, you have $200, and when asked you state no knowing full well that there is $200 in your wallet. In this case, yes, it is a lie.
But here's another circumstance. Let's say while transferring a $100 bill from your safe to your wallet, you accidentally grabbed a second one (they were brand new and stuck together). Now, when asked the question, if you reply yes, despite the fact that you have $200, you have not lied, omission or otherwise. This is because you committed a mistake and were not aware of this mistake. As your intention is to communicate your sincere belief, then this is simply not a lie.
answered 8 hours ago
J DJ D
3346 bronze badges
3346 bronze badges
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
I like your answer up to the point where the 2 examples differ, one resulting in a "no" response and the other resulting in a "yes" response so I'm having a hard time directly comparing them.
– Yukang Jiang
7 hours ago
add a comment |
If someone asks you if you have $100 and you in fact do have $100 then you are telling the truth.
The only way you could falsify that statement is if you do not have $100 which would mean you have less than that amount. It doesn't matter if you have more that $100.
Here is the question:
If you had $200, and I asked you if you had $100, would the correct answer be yes (always), no (always), or it depends on the situation?
I would agree with the OP. The answer is yes. Always. There is no lying involved.
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
add a comment |
If someone asks you if you have $100 and you in fact do have $100 then you are telling the truth.
The only way you could falsify that statement is if you do not have $100 which would mean you have less than that amount. It doesn't matter if you have more that $100.
Here is the question:
If you had $200, and I asked you if you had $100, would the correct answer be yes (always), no (always), or it depends on the situation?
I would agree with the OP. The answer is yes. Always. There is no lying involved.
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
add a comment |
If someone asks you if you have $100 and you in fact do have $100 then you are telling the truth.
The only way you could falsify that statement is if you do not have $100 which would mean you have less than that amount. It doesn't matter if you have more that $100.
Here is the question:
If you had $200, and I asked you if you had $100, would the correct answer be yes (always), no (always), or it depends on the situation?
I would agree with the OP. The answer is yes. Always. There is no lying involved.
If someone asks you if you have $100 and you in fact do have $100 then you are telling the truth.
The only way you could falsify that statement is if you do not have $100 which would mean you have less than that amount. It doesn't matter if you have more that $100.
Here is the question:
If you had $200, and I asked you if you had $100, would the correct answer be yes (always), no (always), or it depends on the situation?
I would agree with the OP. The answer is yes. Always. There is no lying involved.
answered 12 hours ago
Frank HubenyFrank Hubeny
14.8k6 gold badges18 silver badges68 bronze badges
14.8k6 gold badges18 silver badges68 bronze badges
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
add a comment |
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
Cool. Some people would say "it depends on the situation" or "it's an opinion." I wonder if those responses are logical.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
surely it depends on whether lying by omission is a lie. and pmuch nothing else?
– another_name
12 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@another_name There are many things we omit to tell someone who asks us a question. The question and response in this situation seem unambiguous. However, I can imagine situations where the question is different, but that is not what is being asked here.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
@YukangJiang I imagine those people would suspect that the question, "Do you have $100?" means something other than what it asks. However, from your question, I don't see why one has to second-guess its meaning.
– Frank Hubeny
11 hours ago
add a comment |
No, You won't be lying. Why this question is raised is because of the common misunderstanding (by the person who asks for money or anything like that).
Let's build the logic (ignoring the context/situation):
- Person A: Do you have a car?
- Person B: [Has two cars] Yes.
This would clearly not be considered as lie in any situation.
So, If you say Yes for the Question asked in OP. You won't be lying as you [truly] possess $100, no matter how much more you have.
New contributor
add a comment |
No, You won't be lying. Why this question is raised is because of the common misunderstanding (by the person who asks for money or anything like that).
Let's build the logic (ignoring the context/situation):
- Person A: Do you have a car?
- Person B: [Has two cars] Yes.
This would clearly not be considered as lie in any situation.
So, If you say Yes for the Question asked in OP. You won't be lying as you [truly] possess $100, no matter how much more you have.
New contributor
add a comment |
No, You won't be lying. Why this question is raised is because of the common misunderstanding (by the person who asks for money or anything like that).
Let's build the logic (ignoring the context/situation):
- Person A: Do you have a car?
- Person B: [Has two cars] Yes.
This would clearly not be considered as lie in any situation.
So, If you say Yes for the Question asked in OP. You won't be lying as you [truly] possess $100, no matter how much more you have.
New contributor
No, You won't be lying. Why this question is raised is because of the common misunderstanding (by the person who asks for money or anything like that).
Let's build the logic (ignoring the context/situation):
- Person A: Do you have a car?
- Person B: [Has two cars] Yes.
This would clearly not be considered as lie in any situation.
So, If you say Yes for the Question asked in OP. You won't be lying as you [truly] possess $100, no matter how much more you have.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 7 mins ago
Zubair YounasZubair Younas
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
tl;dr- It's a lie if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s).
More specifically, it's a lie-by-omission if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s) by neglecting to mention something that, absent their intent to deceive, they'd have otherwise said.
Lies are communications intended to deceive recipients.
It depends on if there's intent to deceive.
Examples:
Not lying:
Despite having more than $100,Person B
can truthfully answer that they have $100.
Person A
: I need to borrow some money! Do you have $100?Person B
: Yes.
Lying:
Despite having $100,Person F
can deceptively claim to have $100.
Person A
: I got you all presents! Open them up!Person B
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person C
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person D
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person E
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person F
: [Opens present to find $200, then fearing that this was an error that might be corrected, hesitates to say anything.]Person E
: Hey,Person F
, do you have $100?Person F
: Yes.
Since lying-by-omission means deceiving someone by not saying something, it typically comes up in a context in which a reasonable person wouldn't expect omission from an honest person.
In the above example, an honest Person F
could've called attention to the fact that they received $200 while everyone else only got $100, perhaps asking Person A
if this was a mistake and offering to return the money. A reasonable person could've expected Person F
to at least point out that they got $200 when prompted by Person E
.
Because Person F
crafted their communication in a manner intended to deceive, they lied.
Because Person F
's mode of lying was not providing information that a reasonable listener would've expected an honest speaker to provide, it was a lie-by-omission.
Reference: Related concepts.
There're a few things that might be confused with lies. Here I'll mention a few to help draw a line between them.
Not lies:
Honest mistakes.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so based on their own misunderstanding of what's true.
Person A:
I just got $100 in my gift envelope! Do you have $100?Person B:
[Actually received two $100-bills, but thought it was only one.] Yes.
Misunderstandings.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Asking in a context in which they mean exactly $100, assuming thatPerson B
understands this.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Has $200.] Yes.
Miscommunications.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Sends a text-message toPerson B
.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Tries to hit the auto-suggested response for "no", but accidentally hits the auto-suggested response for "yes".] Yes.
Non-true statements not intended to deceive (e.g., hyperbole or sarcasm).
A person can intentionally say something untrue without lying if the untrue statement isn't intended to deceive.
Person A:
Do either of you have $100?Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Here,
Person B
said something that was untrue (and false), but it wasn't a lie because there was no deceptive intent. Likewise,Person C
said something that was untrue (and gibberish), but it also wasn't a lie because it also lacked deceptive intent.
Note: Above, I'm distinguishing between two types of non-true statements: falsehoods and gibberish.
A false statement asserts something that isn't true. For example:
Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!
A gibberish statement ("not even false") doesn't assert anything because it doesn't mean anything. For example:
Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Secrets.
A person can keep a secret without lying by not intentionally causing a false impression in listener(s).
Person A:
Do you have $100?Person B:
I'm not telling you.
To note it, it's not generally possible to be honest while keeping secrets. The specific problem is that an asker can craft questions which are just about impossible to respond to without either revealing the secret or responding deceptively.
For example:
Lying to keep a secret:
Sometimes a secret-keeper doesn't have the option of honestly keeping a secret since a non-response or refusal to respond would be interpreted in a way that compromises the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, not me!
Failing to keep a secret through honesty:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret through honestly not revealing it.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] I'm not telling you.
This is like a partial break in cryptography: since
Person B
didn't confess,Person A
may not be certain thatPerson B
is guilty, but they still have more information about the secretive matter than before they asked.
Failing to keep a secret despite lying:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret despite lying in an attempt to maintain the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
Here,
Person B
did lie in an attempt to maintain the secret, but ended up leaking the secret despite their lie.
It's also possible to lie without deceiving listener(s) if the speaker intended to deceive listener(s). For example, in the above example,
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
, Person B
lied despite not deceiving Person A
because they intended to deceive Person A
. This is, Person B
's lie was still a lie despite Person A
seeing through it.
Conclusion: It's a lie if it's said with intent to deceive.
In short, a communication is a lie if-and-only-if there's intent-to-deceive.
add a comment |
tl;dr- It's a lie if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s).
More specifically, it's a lie-by-omission if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s) by neglecting to mention something that, absent their intent to deceive, they'd have otherwise said.
Lies are communications intended to deceive recipients.
It depends on if there's intent to deceive.
Examples:
Not lying:
Despite having more than $100,Person B
can truthfully answer that they have $100.
Person A
: I need to borrow some money! Do you have $100?Person B
: Yes.
Lying:
Despite having $100,Person F
can deceptively claim to have $100.
Person A
: I got you all presents! Open them up!Person B
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person C
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person D
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person E
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person F
: [Opens present to find $200, then fearing that this was an error that might be corrected, hesitates to say anything.]Person E
: Hey,Person F
, do you have $100?Person F
: Yes.
Since lying-by-omission means deceiving someone by not saying something, it typically comes up in a context in which a reasonable person wouldn't expect omission from an honest person.
In the above example, an honest Person F
could've called attention to the fact that they received $200 while everyone else only got $100, perhaps asking Person A
if this was a mistake and offering to return the money. A reasonable person could've expected Person F
to at least point out that they got $200 when prompted by Person E
.
Because Person F
crafted their communication in a manner intended to deceive, they lied.
Because Person F
's mode of lying was not providing information that a reasonable listener would've expected an honest speaker to provide, it was a lie-by-omission.
Reference: Related concepts.
There're a few things that might be confused with lies. Here I'll mention a few to help draw a line between them.
Not lies:
Honest mistakes.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so based on their own misunderstanding of what's true.
Person A:
I just got $100 in my gift envelope! Do you have $100?Person B:
[Actually received two $100-bills, but thought it was only one.] Yes.
Misunderstandings.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Asking in a context in which they mean exactly $100, assuming thatPerson B
understands this.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Has $200.] Yes.
Miscommunications.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Sends a text-message toPerson B
.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Tries to hit the auto-suggested response for "no", but accidentally hits the auto-suggested response for "yes".] Yes.
Non-true statements not intended to deceive (e.g., hyperbole or sarcasm).
A person can intentionally say something untrue without lying if the untrue statement isn't intended to deceive.
Person A:
Do either of you have $100?Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Here,
Person B
said something that was untrue (and false), but it wasn't a lie because there was no deceptive intent. Likewise,Person C
said something that was untrue (and gibberish), but it also wasn't a lie because it also lacked deceptive intent.
Note: Above, I'm distinguishing between two types of non-true statements: falsehoods and gibberish.
A false statement asserts something that isn't true. For example:
Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!
A gibberish statement ("not even false") doesn't assert anything because it doesn't mean anything. For example:
Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Secrets.
A person can keep a secret without lying by not intentionally causing a false impression in listener(s).
Person A:
Do you have $100?Person B:
I'm not telling you.
To note it, it's not generally possible to be honest while keeping secrets. The specific problem is that an asker can craft questions which are just about impossible to respond to without either revealing the secret or responding deceptively.
For example:
Lying to keep a secret:
Sometimes a secret-keeper doesn't have the option of honestly keeping a secret since a non-response or refusal to respond would be interpreted in a way that compromises the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, not me!
Failing to keep a secret through honesty:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret through honestly not revealing it.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] I'm not telling you.
This is like a partial break in cryptography: since
Person B
didn't confess,Person A
may not be certain thatPerson B
is guilty, but they still have more information about the secretive matter than before they asked.
Failing to keep a secret despite lying:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret despite lying in an attempt to maintain the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
Here,
Person B
did lie in an attempt to maintain the secret, but ended up leaking the secret despite their lie.
It's also possible to lie without deceiving listener(s) if the speaker intended to deceive listener(s). For example, in the above example,
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
, Person B
lied despite not deceiving Person A
because they intended to deceive Person A
. This is, Person B
's lie was still a lie despite Person A
seeing through it.
Conclusion: It's a lie if it's said with intent to deceive.
In short, a communication is a lie if-and-only-if there's intent-to-deceive.
add a comment |
tl;dr- It's a lie if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s).
More specifically, it's a lie-by-omission if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s) by neglecting to mention something that, absent their intent to deceive, they'd have otherwise said.
Lies are communications intended to deceive recipients.
It depends on if there's intent to deceive.
Examples:
Not lying:
Despite having more than $100,Person B
can truthfully answer that they have $100.
Person A
: I need to borrow some money! Do you have $100?Person B
: Yes.
Lying:
Despite having $100,Person F
can deceptively claim to have $100.
Person A
: I got you all presents! Open them up!Person B
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person C
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person D
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person E
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person F
: [Opens present to find $200, then fearing that this was an error that might be corrected, hesitates to say anything.]Person E
: Hey,Person F
, do you have $100?Person F
: Yes.
Since lying-by-omission means deceiving someone by not saying something, it typically comes up in a context in which a reasonable person wouldn't expect omission from an honest person.
In the above example, an honest Person F
could've called attention to the fact that they received $200 while everyone else only got $100, perhaps asking Person A
if this was a mistake and offering to return the money. A reasonable person could've expected Person F
to at least point out that they got $200 when prompted by Person E
.
Because Person F
crafted their communication in a manner intended to deceive, they lied.
Because Person F
's mode of lying was not providing information that a reasonable listener would've expected an honest speaker to provide, it was a lie-by-omission.
Reference: Related concepts.
There're a few things that might be confused with lies. Here I'll mention a few to help draw a line between them.
Not lies:
Honest mistakes.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so based on their own misunderstanding of what's true.
Person A:
I just got $100 in my gift envelope! Do you have $100?Person B:
[Actually received two $100-bills, but thought it was only one.] Yes.
Misunderstandings.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Asking in a context in which they mean exactly $100, assuming thatPerson B
understands this.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Has $200.] Yes.
Miscommunications.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Sends a text-message toPerson B
.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Tries to hit the auto-suggested response for "no", but accidentally hits the auto-suggested response for "yes".] Yes.
Non-true statements not intended to deceive (e.g., hyperbole or sarcasm).
A person can intentionally say something untrue without lying if the untrue statement isn't intended to deceive.
Person A:
Do either of you have $100?Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Here,
Person B
said something that was untrue (and false), but it wasn't a lie because there was no deceptive intent. Likewise,Person C
said something that was untrue (and gibberish), but it also wasn't a lie because it also lacked deceptive intent.
Note: Above, I'm distinguishing between two types of non-true statements: falsehoods and gibberish.
A false statement asserts something that isn't true. For example:
Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!
A gibberish statement ("not even false") doesn't assert anything because it doesn't mean anything. For example:
Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Secrets.
A person can keep a secret without lying by not intentionally causing a false impression in listener(s).
Person A:
Do you have $100?Person B:
I'm not telling you.
To note it, it's not generally possible to be honest while keeping secrets. The specific problem is that an asker can craft questions which are just about impossible to respond to without either revealing the secret or responding deceptively.
For example:
Lying to keep a secret:
Sometimes a secret-keeper doesn't have the option of honestly keeping a secret since a non-response or refusal to respond would be interpreted in a way that compromises the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, not me!
Failing to keep a secret through honesty:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret through honestly not revealing it.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] I'm not telling you.
This is like a partial break in cryptography: since
Person B
didn't confess,Person A
may not be certain thatPerson B
is guilty, but they still have more information about the secretive matter than before they asked.
Failing to keep a secret despite lying:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret despite lying in an attempt to maintain the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
Here,
Person B
did lie in an attempt to maintain the secret, but ended up leaking the secret despite their lie.
It's also possible to lie without deceiving listener(s) if the speaker intended to deceive listener(s). For example, in the above example,
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
, Person B
lied despite not deceiving Person A
because they intended to deceive Person A
. This is, Person B
's lie was still a lie despite Person A
seeing through it.
Conclusion: It's a lie if it's said with intent to deceive.
In short, a communication is a lie if-and-only-if there's intent-to-deceive.
tl;dr- It's a lie if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s).
More specifically, it's a lie-by-omission if the speaker intends to deceive the listener(s) by neglecting to mention something that, absent their intent to deceive, they'd have otherwise said.
Lies are communications intended to deceive recipients.
It depends on if there's intent to deceive.
Examples:
Not lying:
Despite having more than $100,Person B
can truthfully answer that they have $100.
Person A
: I need to borrow some money! Do you have $100?Person B
: Yes.
Lying:
Despite having $100,Person F
can deceptively claim to have $100.
Person A
: I got you all presents! Open them up!Person B
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person C
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person D
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person E
: [Opens present to find $100.] I got $100!Person F
: [Opens present to find $200, then fearing that this was an error that might be corrected, hesitates to say anything.]Person E
: Hey,Person F
, do you have $100?Person F
: Yes.
Since lying-by-omission means deceiving someone by not saying something, it typically comes up in a context in which a reasonable person wouldn't expect omission from an honest person.
In the above example, an honest Person F
could've called attention to the fact that they received $200 while everyone else only got $100, perhaps asking Person A
if this was a mistake and offering to return the money. A reasonable person could've expected Person F
to at least point out that they got $200 when prompted by Person E
.
Because Person F
crafted their communication in a manner intended to deceive, they lied.
Because Person F
's mode of lying was not providing information that a reasonable listener would've expected an honest speaker to provide, it was a lie-by-omission.
Reference: Related concepts.
There're a few things that might be confused with lies. Here I'll mention a few to help draw a line between them.
Not lies:
Honest mistakes.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so based on their own misunderstanding of what's true.
Person A:
I just got $100 in my gift envelope! Do you have $100?Person B:
[Actually received two $100-bills, but thought it was only one.] Yes.
Misunderstandings.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Asking in a context in which they mean exactly $100, assuming thatPerson B
understands this.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Has $200.] Yes.
Miscommunications.
A person can say something that creates a false impression in listener(s) without lying if they did so without intent to cause that false impression.
Person A:
[Sends a text-message toPerson B
.] Do you have $100?Person B:
[Tries to hit the auto-suggested response for "no", but accidentally hits the auto-suggested response for "yes".] Yes.
Non-true statements not intended to deceive (e.g., hyperbole or sarcasm).
A person can intentionally say something untrue without lying if the untrue statement isn't intended to deceive.
Person A:
Do either of you have $100?Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Here,
Person B
said something that was untrue (and false), but it wasn't a lie because there was no deceptive intent. Likewise,Person C
said something that was untrue (and gibberish), but it also wasn't a lie because it also lacked deceptive intent.
Note: Above, I'm distinguishing between two types of non-true statements: falsehoods and gibberish.
A false statement asserts something that isn't true. For example:
Person B:
I've got a trillion dollars!
A gibberish statement ("not even false") doesn't assert anything because it doesn't mean anything. For example:
Person C:
I've got a trillion-zillion-infinity dollars!
Secrets.
A person can keep a secret without lying by not intentionally causing a false impression in listener(s).
Person A:
Do you have $100?Person B:
I'm not telling you.
To note it, it's not generally possible to be honest while keeping secrets. The specific problem is that an asker can craft questions which are just about impossible to respond to without either revealing the secret or responding deceptively.
For example:
Lying to keep a secret:
Sometimes a secret-keeper doesn't have the option of honestly keeping a secret since a non-response or refusal to respond would be interpreted in a way that compromises the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, not me!
Failing to keep a secret through honesty:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret through honestly not revealing it.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] I'm not telling you.
This is like a partial break in cryptography: since
Person B
didn't confess,Person A
may not be certain thatPerson B
is guilty, but they still have more information about the secretive matter than before they asked.
Failing to keep a secret despite lying:
Sometimes a secret-keeper can fail to keep a secret despite lying in an attempt to maintain the secret.
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
Here,
Person B
did lie in an attempt to maintain the secret, but ended up leaking the secret despite their lie.
It's also possible to lie without deceiving listener(s) if the speaker intended to deceive listener(s). For example, in the above example,
Person A:
Did you steal the cookies from the cookie jar?Person B
: [Did steal the cookies from the cookie jar.] No, I was out of town that night!Person A:
No, you weren't. We have you on camera near the kitchen that night.
, Person B
lied despite not deceiving Person A
because they intended to deceive Person A
. This is, Person B
's lie was still a lie despite Person A
seeing through it.
Conclusion: It's a lie if it's said with intent to deceive.
In short, a communication is a lie if-and-only-if there's intent-to-deceive.
edited 1 min ago
answered 1 hour ago
NatNat
3471 gold badge3 silver badges12 bronze badges
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add a comment |
Yukang Jiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Yukang Jiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Yukang Jiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Yukang Jiang is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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you could perhaps phrase this to be a better fit. e.g., "am i lying". just an idea! as it stands i'm not sure it's the sort of question philosophers ask...
– another_name
12 hours ago
1
Edited. Thanks. By the way, where would you suggest me asking this question? Surely it belongs on one of the stack exchanges? I did put some logical thinking in it.
– Yukang Jiang
12 hours ago
i have no idea. i'll suggest an edit, but i'm not a good / popular poster
– another_name
12 hours ago
I get what you are TRYING to do. Let's look at it this way: if I can liftb100 lbs then surely I can lift 10 pounds or 80 or 70, etc. If I can lift 100 lbs then any number below 100 lbs I should necessarily be able to lift. In the money example this is ambitious that the weight example. You make it sound as if I have 200 dollars on me at all times forever. This is the reason people are saying it depends. You would have to include more specific details as possible to avoid ambiguity and vagueness in statements.
– Logikal
10 hours ago
Ok, I added "right now" to the OP post and made a few changes.
– Yukang Jiang
10 hours ago