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What are the IPSE’s, the ASPE’s, the FRIPSE’s and the GRIPSE’s?


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6















In one of Edsger Dijkstra's most famous essays "By way of introduction" there is this paragraph:




As final example of skirting the programming issue I mention “software engineering”, the IPSE’s, the ASPE’s, the FRIPSE’s and the GRIPSE’s and all further animation tools you can think of. They come from a world that has accepted its charter “How to program if you cannot.”. The best of these efforts just confuse composing with the physical act of writing the score, others are foolish at best, and some are criminal.




From the context, it seems like those are some graphical tools from the 80s (the essay is dated 12 Feb 1989), which were used for computer programming education, however I wasn't able to find any information on the Internet about them.










share|improve this question







New contributor



Ardavast Dayleryan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




























    6















    In one of Edsger Dijkstra's most famous essays "By way of introduction" there is this paragraph:




    As final example of skirting the programming issue I mention “software engineering”, the IPSE’s, the ASPE’s, the FRIPSE’s and the GRIPSE’s and all further animation tools you can think of. They come from a world that has accepted its charter “How to program if you cannot.”. The best of these efforts just confuse composing with the physical act of writing the score, others are foolish at best, and some are criminal.




    From the context, it seems like those are some graphical tools from the 80s (the essay is dated 12 Feb 1989), which were used for computer programming education, however I wasn't able to find any information on the Internet about them.










    share|improve this question







    New contributor



    Ardavast Dayleryan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
























      6












      6








      6








      In one of Edsger Dijkstra's most famous essays "By way of introduction" there is this paragraph:




      As final example of skirting the programming issue I mention “software engineering”, the IPSE’s, the ASPE’s, the FRIPSE’s and the GRIPSE’s and all further animation tools you can think of. They come from a world that has accepted its charter “How to program if you cannot.”. The best of these efforts just confuse composing with the physical act of writing the score, others are foolish at best, and some are criminal.




      From the context, it seems like those are some graphical tools from the 80s (the essay is dated 12 Feb 1989), which were used for computer programming education, however I wasn't able to find any information on the Internet about them.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Ardavast Dayleryan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      In one of Edsger Dijkstra's most famous essays "By way of introduction" there is this paragraph:




      As final example of skirting the programming issue I mention “software engineering”, the IPSE’s, the ASPE’s, the FRIPSE’s and the GRIPSE’s and all further animation tools you can think of. They come from a world that has accepted its charter “How to program if you cannot.”. The best of these efforts just confuse composing with the physical act of writing the score, others are foolish at best, and some are criminal.




      From the context, it seems like those are some graphical tools from the 80s (the essay is dated 12 Feb 1989), which were used for computer programming education, however I wasn't able to find any information on the Internet about them.







      history identify-this-software






      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Ardavast Dayleryan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Ardavast Dayleryan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question






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      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      asked 12 hours ago









      Ardavast DayleryanArdavast Dayleryan

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6















          IPSE   = Integrated Project Support Environment
          (or Integrated Programming Support Environment
          ASPE = Ada Programming Support Environment
          FRIPSE = Formal Reasoning Integrated Programming Support Environment
          GRIPSE = Graphical Integrated Programming Support Environment


          Keep in mind, Dijkstra's rant is about the formal programming hype of the late 1980s which he didn't consider to be fruitful, wise man he was.





          Some further links:




          • IPSE


          • The preliminary specification of FRIPSE, KD Jones, 1987


          • MURAL (as what is FRIPSE known today) (Also here)


          • A uniform graphical view of the program construction process: GRIPSE


          • Some examples can be found in a 1987 paper provided by alephzero



          When searching, adding "Formal Verification" might be helpful, as that was the core idea. After all, programming is just mathematics, right? So it should be possible to program in a way that it's possible to prove the correctness in an automated, formalized way. Thankfully mostly dead by now.





          As a side note, if there's any writing of im that can be consideres most famous, then it's his 1968 "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". This one infuenced eventually each and every modern programming language (except Brainfuck that is).






          share|improve this answer























          • 1





            +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

            – Stephen Kitt
            12 hours ago













          • See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

            – alephzero
            11 hours ago











          • @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

            – Raffzahn
            11 hours ago













          • @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

            – Stephen Kitt
            10 hours ago











          • @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

            – Raffzahn
            9 hours ago





















          3















          IPSE stands for "Integrated Project Support Environment"; this was one of a series of names given to projects related to using theorm proving in software engineering. Wikipedia has a brief blurb on it, but this Chilton Computing page offers more detail and probably gives a better sense of what it is and what it does. FRIPSE and GRIPSE were related (FR meaning "formal reasoning" and "GR" meaning "graphical."



          If your concern is not about the details of these particular packages at those times but instead what Dijktra was talking about when he mentioned those (certainly any modern example could be substituted in that paper and still preserve what he was trying to say), the Software Engineering StackExchange would be a better place for questions.






          share|improve this answer




























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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            6















            IPSE   = Integrated Project Support Environment
            (or Integrated Programming Support Environment
            ASPE = Ada Programming Support Environment
            FRIPSE = Formal Reasoning Integrated Programming Support Environment
            GRIPSE = Graphical Integrated Programming Support Environment


            Keep in mind, Dijkstra's rant is about the formal programming hype of the late 1980s which he didn't consider to be fruitful, wise man he was.





            Some further links:




            • IPSE


            • The preliminary specification of FRIPSE, KD Jones, 1987


            • MURAL (as what is FRIPSE known today) (Also here)


            • A uniform graphical view of the program construction process: GRIPSE


            • Some examples can be found in a 1987 paper provided by alephzero



            When searching, adding "Formal Verification" might be helpful, as that was the core idea. After all, programming is just mathematics, right? So it should be possible to program in a way that it's possible to prove the correctness in an automated, formalized way. Thankfully mostly dead by now.





            As a side note, if there's any writing of im that can be consideres most famous, then it's his 1968 "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". This one infuenced eventually each and every modern programming language (except Brainfuck that is).






            share|improve this answer























            • 1





              +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

              – Stephen Kitt
              12 hours ago













            • See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

              – alephzero
              11 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

              – Raffzahn
              11 hours ago













            • @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

              – Stephen Kitt
              10 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

              – Raffzahn
              9 hours ago


















            6















            IPSE   = Integrated Project Support Environment
            (or Integrated Programming Support Environment
            ASPE = Ada Programming Support Environment
            FRIPSE = Formal Reasoning Integrated Programming Support Environment
            GRIPSE = Graphical Integrated Programming Support Environment


            Keep in mind, Dijkstra's rant is about the formal programming hype of the late 1980s which he didn't consider to be fruitful, wise man he was.





            Some further links:




            • IPSE


            • The preliminary specification of FRIPSE, KD Jones, 1987


            • MURAL (as what is FRIPSE known today) (Also here)


            • A uniform graphical view of the program construction process: GRIPSE


            • Some examples can be found in a 1987 paper provided by alephzero



            When searching, adding "Formal Verification" might be helpful, as that was the core idea. After all, programming is just mathematics, right? So it should be possible to program in a way that it's possible to prove the correctness in an automated, formalized way. Thankfully mostly dead by now.





            As a side note, if there's any writing of im that can be consideres most famous, then it's his 1968 "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". This one infuenced eventually each and every modern programming language (except Brainfuck that is).






            share|improve this answer























            • 1





              +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

              – Stephen Kitt
              12 hours ago













            • See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

              – alephzero
              11 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

              – Raffzahn
              11 hours ago













            • @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

              – Stephen Kitt
              10 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

              – Raffzahn
              9 hours ago
















            6














            6










            6









            IPSE   = Integrated Project Support Environment
            (or Integrated Programming Support Environment
            ASPE = Ada Programming Support Environment
            FRIPSE = Formal Reasoning Integrated Programming Support Environment
            GRIPSE = Graphical Integrated Programming Support Environment


            Keep in mind, Dijkstra's rant is about the formal programming hype of the late 1980s which he didn't consider to be fruitful, wise man he was.





            Some further links:




            • IPSE


            • The preliminary specification of FRIPSE, KD Jones, 1987


            • MURAL (as what is FRIPSE known today) (Also here)


            • A uniform graphical view of the program construction process: GRIPSE


            • Some examples can be found in a 1987 paper provided by alephzero



            When searching, adding "Formal Verification" might be helpful, as that was the core idea. After all, programming is just mathematics, right? So it should be possible to program in a way that it's possible to prove the correctness in an automated, formalized way. Thankfully mostly dead by now.





            As a side note, if there's any writing of im that can be consideres most famous, then it's his 1968 "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". This one infuenced eventually each and every modern programming language (except Brainfuck that is).






            share|improve this answer















            IPSE   = Integrated Project Support Environment
            (or Integrated Programming Support Environment
            ASPE = Ada Programming Support Environment
            FRIPSE = Formal Reasoning Integrated Programming Support Environment
            GRIPSE = Graphical Integrated Programming Support Environment


            Keep in mind, Dijkstra's rant is about the formal programming hype of the late 1980s which he didn't consider to be fruitful, wise man he was.





            Some further links:




            • IPSE


            • The preliminary specification of FRIPSE, KD Jones, 1987


            • MURAL (as what is FRIPSE known today) (Also here)


            • A uniform graphical view of the program construction process: GRIPSE


            • Some examples can be found in a 1987 paper provided by alephzero



            When searching, adding "Formal Verification" might be helpful, as that was the core idea. After all, programming is just mathematics, right? So it should be possible to program in a way that it's possible to prove the correctness in an automated, formalized way. Thankfully mostly dead by now.





            As a side note, if there's any writing of im that can be consideres most famous, then it's his 1968 "Go To Statement Considered Harmful". This one infuenced eventually each and every modern programming language (except Brainfuck that is).







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 11 hours ago

























            answered 12 hours ago









            RaffzahnRaffzahn

            67.7k6 gold badges167 silver badges279 bronze badges




            67.7k6 gold badges167 silver badges279 bronze badges











            • 1





              +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

              – Stephen Kitt
              12 hours ago













            • See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

              – alephzero
              11 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

              – Raffzahn
              11 hours ago













            • @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

              – Stephen Kitt
              10 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

              – Raffzahn
              9 hours ago
















            • 1





              +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

              – Stephen Kitt
              12 hours ago













            • See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

              – alephzero
              11 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

              – Raffzahn
              11 hours ago













            • @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

              – Stephen Kitt
              10 hours ago











            • @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

              – Raffzahn
              9 hours ago










            1




            1





            +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

            – Stephen Kitt
            12 hours ago







            +1, I spent too long reading related papers! “ASPE” is a typo in Dijkstra’s note; it should be “APSE”. (See e.g. The importance of Ada programming support environments.)

            – Stephen Kitt
            12 hours ago















            See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

            – alephzero
            11 hours ago





            See for example homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/cliff.jones/publications/MUCS-TRs/….

            – alephzero
            11 hours ago













            @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

            – Raffzahn
            11 hours ago







            @StephenKitt It was about the time I finally gave up on following any theory. I'm always keen to offload standard tasks of validation and error checking to the machine, so I really tried hard to find any good use for that approach. What a waste of time. BTW, I love Ada. Next best thing after Assembly.

            – Raffzahn
            11 hours ago















            @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

            – Stephen Kitt
            10 hours ago





            @Raffzahn I never got into formal programming either, but I’ve been following Clifford Wolf’s work on formal RISC-V the past few years, he’s getting some really interesting results!

            – Stephen Kitt
            10 hours ago













            @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

            – Raffzahn
            9 hours ago







            @StephenKitt Oh, I do belive about a nice for formal proof in hardware development - as long as it can be reduced close enough. Similar there are a few nieces in very special areas of software. Just never a majority, as real world requirements are way too complex. Using formal systems for RL applications always rely on assumptions ad non conclusive reduction, rendering any result worthless. The basic problem with European CS is that programming was seen as a facet of mathematics, not engineering. And formal proof is one of the dead end developments favoured.

            – Raffzahn
            9 hours ago















            3















            IPSE stands for "Integrated Project Support Environment"; this was one of a series of names given to projects related to using theorm proving in software engineering. Wikipedia has a brief blurb on it, but this Chilton Computing page offers more detail and probably gives a better sense of what it is and what it does. FRIPSE and GRIPSE were related (FR meaning "formal reasoning" and "GR" meaning "graphical."



            If your concern is not about the details of these particular packages at those times but instead what Dijktra was talking about when he mentioned those (certainly any modern example could be substituted in that paper and still preserve what he was trying to say), the Software Engineering StackExchange would be a better place for questions.






            share|improve this answer






























              3















              IPSE stands for "Integrated Project Support Environment"; this was one of a series of names given to projects related to using theorm proving in software engineering. Wikipedia has a brief blurb on it, but this Chilton Computing page offers more detail and probably gives a better sense of what it is and what it does. FRIPSE and GRIPSE were related (FR meaning "formal reasoning" and "GR" meaning "graphical."



              If your concern is not about the details of these particular packages at those times but instead what Dijktra was talking about when he mentioned those (certainly any modern example could be substituted in that paper and still preserve what he was trying to say), the Software Engineering StackExchange would be a better place for questions.






              share|improve this answer




























                3














                3










                3









                IPSE stands for "Integrated Project Support Environment"; this was one of a series of names given to projects related to using theorm proving in software engineering. Wikipedia has a brief blurb on it, but this Chilton Computing page offers more detail and probably gives a better sense of what it is and what it does. FRIPSE and GRIPSE were related (FR meaning "formal reasoning" and "GR" meaning "graphical."



                If your concern is not about the details of these particular packages at those times but instead what Dijktra was talking about when he mentioned those (certainly any modern example could be substituted in that paper and still preserve what he was trying to say), the Software Engineering StackExchange would be a better place for questions.






                share|improve this answer













                IPSE stands for "Integrated Project Support Environment"; this was one of a series of names given to projects related to using theorm proving in software engineering. Wikipedia has a brief blurb on it, but this Chilton Computing page offers more detail and probably gives a better sense of what it is and what it does. FRIPSE and GRIPSE were related (FR meaning "formal reasoning" and "GR" meaning "graphical."



                If your concern is not about the details of these particular packages at those times but instead what Dijktra was talking about when he mentioned those (certainly any modern example could be substituted in that paper and still preserve what he was trying to say), the Software Engineering StackExchange would be a better place for questions.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 12 hours ago









                Curt J. SampsonCurt J. Sampson

                3,60210 silver badges38 bronze badges




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