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Shift lens vs move body?

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Shift lens vs move body?


Can this cheap tilt-shift compact camera produce good results?What lenses can I use to build a DIY tilt/shift lens for a Nikon DX body?Metering with a Tilt-Shift LensHow to Maximize the Miniaturization Effect With a Tilt-Shift Lens?Why not separate a tilt shift lens into two separate lenses?Are the perspective control advantages of a tilt shift lens less important on higher resolution cameras?What are the techniques for taking portraits using a tilt shift lens?Can Focus Stacking produce the same effect as Tilt-Shift?Framing when adjusting tilt on a tilt-shift lens






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This is a question that sounds basic, but I have yet to find an answer. When using a tilt-shift lens, if you shift the lens up 5 mm, or if you move the camera body up 5 mm, does the camera capture the same image?










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    3















    This is a question that sounds basic, but I have yet to find an answer. When using a tilt-shift lens, if you shift the lens up 5 mm, or if you move the camera body up 5 mm, does the camera capture the same image?










    share|improve this question







    New contributor



    Dirk101 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
























      3












      3








      3








      This is a question that sounds basic, but I have yet to find an answer. When using a tilt-shift lens, if you shift the lens up 5 mm, or if you move the camera body up 5 mm, does the camera capture the same image?










      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Dirk101 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      This is a question that sounds basic, but I have yet to find an answer. When using a tilt-shift lens, if you shift the lens up 5 mm, or if you move the camera body up 5 mm, does the camera capture the same image?







      tilt-shift






      share|improve this question







      New contributor



      Dirk101 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.










      share|improve this question







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      Dirk101 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question






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      asked 11 hours ago









      Dirk101Dirk101

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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3















          No.



          When moving camera body, the change significance is in relation to subject. For example, when taking photo of a person, 5 mm is quite unnoticeable. When shifting lens, the shift significance is in relation to imaging area size. In case of full frame, a 5 mm shift up moves the whole image by 21 percent of the image height.



          In principle, shifting a lens allows you to select which part of its image circle will land on sensor. Therefore shift lenses have wider image circles than would be minimally needed for the sensor size from a non-shifting lens. So you can compare it to cropping from an image of a lens with a shorter focal length; the advantage of shift lens is that you can use the sensor area and frame on spot.






          share|improve this answer

































            2















            The other answers by xenoid and Imre are perfectly correct, but for visual reference, I've created a graphic to display the difference. The blue cone is the camera in the original position, the red demonstrates raising the camera, and the green is a camera in the original position with only the lens raised to the same position.



            enter image description here






            share|improve this answer


























            • @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

              – LightBender
              9 hours ago






            • 1





              @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

              – LightBender
              16 mins ago











            • That diagram is helpful.

              – xiota
              15 mins ago



















            1















            No.




            • If you shift the camera up 5mm, you shift the captured image by 5 "absoluet" millimeters. For instance, on a building, that would make the picture include or not the thickness of roof tiles.


            • If you shift the lens by 5mm on a 15mm-high sensor, you shift the capture image by one third of its relative size. If you shoot a building horizontally (to keep parallel verticals) the bottom half of your picture is the ground in front of the building. By shifting lens, you get one third of ground, and two thirds of building so you have more chances to include the full building.



            See the diagram here






            share|improve this answer

































              1

















              • In the following diagram, the crossed lines represent the light rays. The green square represents the sensor. The shapes represent the physical object and image you wish to capture. In the normal position, the circle is captured on the sensor. A 40mm lens was used to take the photo.



                diagram - normalphoto - normal




              • Suppose you wish to capture the square. You could shift the lens up (or shift the sensor down). The sensor captures a different portion of the imaging circle, which contains the square. To take the photo, the 40mm lens was shifted upwards 1-2 cm.



                diagram - shift lensphoto - shift lens



                If the imaging circle is too small, you will see its edge when you shift the lens. A 35mm lens was used to take this photo.



                small imaging circle




              • Suppose you want to move the camera up, with the sensor and lens in their normal alignment. The distance you'd have to move the camera is about the same as the distance between the circle and the square, which is much greater than the distance the sensor had to be shifted. This is why you can get the framing you want with a tiny shift lens, but might have to lift the camera in a crane. The photo was taken after raising the camera about a foot. The 40mm lens was used.



                diagram - raise cameraphoto - raise camera








              share|improve this answer






























                Your Answer








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                4 Answers
                4






                active

                oldest

                votes








                4 Answers
                4






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                3















                No.



                When moving camera body, the change significance is in relation to subject. For example, when taking photo of a person, 5 mm is quite unnoticeable. When shifting lens, the shift significance is in relation to imaging area size. In case of full frame, a 5 mm shift up moves the whole image by 21 percent of the image height.



                In principle, shifting a lens allows you to select which part of its image circle will land on sensor. Therefore shift lenses have wider image circles than would be minimally needed for the sensor size from a non-shifting lens. So you can compare it to cropping from an image of a lens with a shorter focal length; the advantage of shift lens is that you can use the sensor area and frame on spot.






                share|improve this answer






























                  3















                  No.



                  When moving camera body, the change significance is in relation to subject. For example, when taking photo of a person, 5 mm is quite unnoticeable. When shifting lens, the shift significance is in relation to imaging area size. In case of full frame, a 5 mm shift up moves the whole image by 21 percent of the image height.



                  In principle, shifting a lens allows you to select which part of its image circle will land on sensor. Therefore shift lenses have wider image circles than would be minimally needed for the sensor size from a non-shifting lens. So you can compare it to cropping from an image of a lens with a shorter focal length; the advantage of shift lens is that you can use the sensor area and frame on spot.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    3














                    3










                    3









                    No.



                    When moving camera body, the change significance is in relation to subject. For example, when taking photo of a person, 5 mm is quite unnoticeable. When shifting lens, the shift significance is in relation to imaging area size. In case of full frame, a 5 mm shift up moves the whole image by 21 percent of the image height.



                    In principle, shifting a lens allows you to select which part of its image circle will land on sensor. Therefore shift lenses have wider image circles than would be minimally needed for the sensor size from a non-shifting lens. So you can compare it to cropping from an image of a lens with a shorter focal length; the advantage of shift lens is that you can use the sensor area and frame on spot.






                    share|improve this answer













                    No.



                    When moving camera body, the change significance is in relation to subject. For example, when taking photo of a person, 5 mm is quite unnoticeable. When shifting lens, the shift significance is in relation to imaging area size. In case of full frame, a 5 mm shift up moves the whole image by 21 percent of the image height.



                    In principle, shifting a lens allows you to select which part of its image circle will land on sensor. Therefore shift lenses have wider image circles than would be minimally needed for the sensor size from a non-shifting lens. So you can compare it to cropping from an image of a lens with a shorter focal length; the advantage of shift lens is that you can use the sensor area and frame on spot.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 10 hours ago









                    ImreImre

                    27.6k9 gold badges96 silver badges169 bronze badges




                    27.6k9 gold badges96 silver badges169 bronze badges




























                        2















                        The other answers by xenoid and Imre are perfectly correct, but for visual reference, I've created a graphic to display the difference. The blue cone is the camera in the original position, the red demonstrates raising the camera, and the green is a camera in the original position with only the lens raised to the same position.



                        enter image description here






                        share|improve this answer


























                        • @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                          – LightBender
                          9 hours ago






                        • 1





                          @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                          – LightBender
                          16 mins ago











                        • That diagram is helpful.

                          – xiota
                          15 mins ago
















                        2















                        The other answers by xenoid and Imre are perfectly correct, but for visual reference, I've created a graphic to display the difference. The blue cone is the camera in the original position, the red demonstrates raising the camera, and the green is a camera in the original position with only the lens raised to the same position.



                        enter image description here






                        share|improve this answer


























                        • @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                          – LightBender
                          9 hours ago






                        • 1





                          @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                          – LightBender
                          16 mins ago











                        • That diagram is helpful.

                          – xiota
                          15 mins ago














                        2














                        2










                        2









                        The other answers by xenoid and Imre are perfectly correct, but for visual reference, I've created a graphic to display the difference. The blue cone is the camera in the original position, the red demonstrates raising the camera, and the green is a camera in the original position with only the lens raised to the same position.



                        enter image description here






                        share|improve this answer













                        The other answers by xenoid and Imre are perfectly correct, but for visual reference, I've created a graphic to display the difference. The blue cone is the camera in the original position, the red demonstrates raising the camera, and the green is a camera in the original position with only the lens raised to the same position.



                        enter image description here







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered 10 hours ago









                        LightBenderLightBender

                        7094 silver badges15 bronze badges




                        7094 silver badges15 bronze badges
















                        • @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                          – LightBender
                          9 hours ago






                        • 1





                          @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                          – LightBender
                          16 mins ago











                        • That diagram is helpful.

                          – xiota
                          15 mins ago



















                        • @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                          – LightBender
                          9 hours ago






                        • 1





                          @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                          – LightBender
                          16 mins ago











                        • That diagram is helpful.

                          – xiota
                          15 mins ago

















                        @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                        – LightBender
                        9 hours ago





                        @xiota The imaging circles are not represented at all in this diagram, we are just assuming that the circle is large enough to cover the entire area. This is a map of the extreme edges of the area visible to the sensor using only those rays that pass through the center of the lens. I admit it has been many years since I've worked with a rail camera, but I don't recall a tremendous difference in field of view based on tilt. Either way, this diagram is accurate when all planes are parallel.

                        – LightBender
                        9 hours ago




                        1




                        1





                        @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                        – LightBender
                        16 mins ago





                        @xiota I think the confusion is that you have drawn your diagrams in relation to the full imaging circle of the lens while I have drawn mine to demonstrate only what the sensor sees. As I stated, my diagram does not show the imaging circle and no tilt is present. The two diagrams merely have a different point of reference. Here I have overlaid the two to demonstrate that both diagrams show exactly the same thing.

                        – LightBender
                        16 mins ago













                        That diagram is helpful.

                        – xiota
                        15 mins ago





                        That diagram is helpful.

                        – xiota
                        15 mins ago











                        1















                        No.




                        • If you shift the camera up 5mm, you shift the captured image by 5 "absoluet" millimeters. For instance, on a building, that would make the picture include or not the thickness of roof tiles.


                        • If you shift the lens by 5mm on a 15mm-high sensor, you shift the capture image by one third of its relative size. If you shoot a building horizontally (to keep parallel verticals) the bottom half of your picture is the ground in front of the building. By shifting lens, you get one third of ground, and two thirds of building so you have more chances to include the full building.



                        See the diagram here






                        share|improve this answer






























                          1















                          No.




                          • If you shift the camera up 5mm, you shift the captured image by 5 "absoluet" millimeters. For instance, on a building, that would make the picture include or not the thickness of roof tiles.


                          • If you shift the lens by 5mm on a 15mm-high sensor, you shift the capture image by one third of its relative size. If you shoot a building horizontally (to keep parallel verticals) the bottom half of your picture is the ground in front of the building. By shifting lens, you get one third of ground, and two thirds of building so you have more chances to include the full building.



                          See the diagram here






                          share|improve this answer




























                            1














                            1










                            1









                            No.




                            • If you shift the camera up 5mm, you shift the captured image by 5 "absoluet" millimeters. For instance, on a building, that would make the picture include or not the thickness of roof tiles.


                            • If you shift the lens by 5mm on a 15mm-high sensor, you shift the capture image by one third of its relative size. If you shoot a building horizontally (to keep parallel verticals) the bottom half of your picture is the ground in front of the building. By shifting lens, you get one third of ground, and two thirds of building so you have more chances to include the full building.



                            See the diagram here






                            share|improve this answer













                            No.




                            • If you shift the camera up 5mm, you shift the captured image by 5 "absoluet" millimeters. For instance, on a building, that would make the picture include or not the thickness of roof tiles.


                            • If you shift the lens by 5mm on a 15mm-high sensor, you shift the capture image by one third of its relative size. If you shoot a building horizontally (to keep parallel verticals) the bottom half of your picture is the ground in front of the building. By shifting lens, you get one third of ground, and two thirds of building so you have more chances to include the full building.



                            See the diagram here







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 11 hours ago









                            xenoidxenoid

                            6,1131 gold badge10 silver badges25 bronze badges




                            6,1131 gold badge10 silver badges25 bronze badges


























                                1

















                                • In the following diagram, the crossed lines represent the light rays. The green square represents the sensor. The shapes represent the physical object and image you wish to capture. In the normal position, the circle is captured on the sensor. A 40mm lens was used to take the photo.



                                  diagram - normalphoto - normal




                                • Suppose you wish to capture the square. You could shift the lens up (or shift the sensor down). The sensor captures a different portion of the imaging circle, which contains the square. To take the photo, the 40mm lens was shifted upwards 1-2 cm.



                                  diagram - shift lensphoto - shift lens



                                  If the imaging circle is too small, you will see its edge when you shift the lens. A 35mm lens was used to take this photo.



                                  small imaging circle




                                • Suppose you want to move the camera up, with the sensor and lens in their normal alignment. The distance you'd have to move the camera is about the same as the distance between the circle and the square, which is much greater than the distance the sensor had to be shifted. This is why you can get the framing you want with a tiny shift lens, but might have to lift the camera in a crane. The photo was taken after raising the camera about a foot. The 40mm lens was used.



                                  diagram - raise cameraphoto - raise camera








                                share|improve this answer
































                                  1

















                                  • In the following diagram, the crossed lines represent the light rays. The green square represents the sensor. The shapes represent the physical object and image you wish to capture. In the normal position, the circle is captured on the sensor. A 40mm lens was used to take the photo.



                                    diagram - normalphoto - normal




                                  • Suppose you wish to capture the square. You could shift the lens up (or shift the sensor down). The sensor captures a different portion of the imaging circle, which contains the square. To take the photo, the 40mm lens was shifted upwards 1-2 cm.



                                    diagram - shift lensphoto - shift lens



                                    If the imaging circle is too small, you will see its edge when you shift the lens. A 35mm lens was used to take this photo.



                                    small imaging circle




                                  • Suppose you want to move the camera up, with the sensor and lens in their normal alignment. The distance you'd have to move the camera is about the same as the distance between the circle and the square, which is much greater than the distance the sensor had to be shifted. This is why you can get the framing you want with a tiny shift lens, but might have to lift the camera in a crane. The photo was taken after raising the camera about a foot. The 40mm lens was used.



                                    diagram - raise cameraphoto - raise camera








                                  share|improve this answer






























                                    1














                                    1










                                    1











                                    • In the following diagram, the crossed lines represent the light rays. The green square represents the sensor. The shapes represent the physical object and image you wish to capture. In the normal position, the circle is captured on the sensor. A 40mm lens was used to take the photo.



                                      diagram - normalphoto - normal




                                    • Suppose you wish to capture the square. You could shift the lens up (or shift the sensor down). The sensor captures a different portion of the imaging circle, which contains the square. To take the photo, the 40mm lens was shifted upwards 1-2 cm.



                                      diagram - shift lensphoto - shift lens



                                      If the imaging circle is too small, you will see its edge when you shift the lens. A 35mm lens was used to take this photo.



                                      small imaging circle




                                    • Suppose you want to move the camera up, with the sensor and lens in their normal alignment. The distance you'd have to move the camera is about the same as the distance between the circle and the square, which is much greater than the distance the sensor had to be shifted. This is why you can get the framing you want with a tiny shift lens, but might have to lift the camera in a crane. The photo was taken after raising the camera about a foot. The 40mm lens was used.



                                      diagram - raise cameraphoto - raise camera








                                    share|improve this answer

















                                    • In the following diagram, the crossed lines represent the light rays. The green square represents the sensor. The shapes represent the physical object and image you wish to capture. In the normal position, the circle is captured on the sensor. A 40mm lens was used to take the photo.



                                      diagram - normalphoto - normal




                                    • Suppose you wish to capture the square. You could shift the lens up (or shift the sensor down). The sensor captures a different portion of the imaging circle, which contains the square. To take the photo, the 40mm lens was shifted upwards 1-2 cm.



                                      diagram - shift lensphoto - shift lens



                                      If the imaging circle is too small, you will see its edge when you shift the lens. A 35mm lens was used to take this photo.



                                      small imaging circle




                                    • Suppose you want to move the camera up, with the sensor and lens in their normal alignment. The distance you'd have to move the camera is about the same as the distance between the circle and the square, which is much greater than the distance the sensor had to be shifted. This is why you can get the framing you want with a tiny shift lens, but might have to lift the camera in a crane. The photo was taken after raising the camera about a foot. The 40mm lens was used.



                                      diagram - raise cameraphoto - raise camera









                                    share|improve this answer














                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer








                                    edited 2 hours ago

























                                    answered 10 hours ago









                                    xiotaxiota

                                    16.6k4 gold badges22 silver badges79 bronze badges




                                    16.6k4 gold badges22 silver badges79 bronze badges

























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