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What is the term for completing a climbing route uncleanly?


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If a climber completes a route without using their protection that is called sending.



What is the term if one completes the route but had to depend on the rope either for a rest or for a fall?



Let's say using the rope lowers the climber enough that they still have to complete all moves. In other words all moves have been done properly, but the ascent wasn't clean.










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  • "Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

    – endolith
    11 hours ago













  • Having a high gravity day

    – Charlie Brumbaugh
    3 hours ago


















10















If a climber completes a route without using their protection that is called sending.



What is the term if one completes the route but had to depend on the rope either for a rest or for a fall?



Let's say using the rope lowers the climber enough that they still have to complete all moves. In other words all moves have been done properly, but the ascent wasn't clean.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Adam is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






















  • "Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

    – endolith
    11 hours ago













  • Having a high gravity day

    – Charlie Brumbaugh
    3 hours ago














10












10








10


1






If a climber completes a route without using their protection that is called sending.



What is the term if one completes the route but had to depend on the rope either for a rest or for a fall?



Let's say using the rope lowers the climber enough that they still have to complete all moves. In other words all moves have been done properly, but the ascent wasn't clean.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Adam is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











If a climber completes a route without using their protection that is called sending.



What is the term if one completes the route but had to depend on the rope either for a rest or for a fall?



Let's say using the rope lowers the climber enough that they still have to complete all moves. In other words all moves have been done properly, but the ascent wasn't clean.







climbing terminology






share|improve this question









New contributor



Adam is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question









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Adam is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 5 mins ago









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asked yesterday









AdamAdam

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1515 bronze badges




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Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




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Check out our Code of Conduct.


















  • "Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

    – endolith
    11 hours ago













  • Having a high gravity day

    – Charlie Brumbaugh
    3 hours ago



















  • "Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

    – endolith
    11 hours ago













  • Having a high gravity day

    – Charlie Brumbaugh
    3 hours ago

















"Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

– endolith
11 hours ago







"Hang dog" thecrag.com/en/article/ticktypes

– endolith
11 hours ago















Having a high gravity day

– Charlie Brumbaugh
3 hours ago





Having a high gravity day

– Charlie Brumbaugh
3 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















6














In aid climbing this is still sending since hanging on protection is part of the game (as @StrongBad points out, hanging on the rope is a little different than hanging on protection.)



In sport climbing, however, there is no specific word or phrase. I think the most common ways to describe it are:



Projecting



As in "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a." This doesn't capture the fact that you've done all the moves, but most sport climbers are focused on the clean send, and so a large part of projecting involves doing all the moves in sequence with the occasional hang.



Worked through all the moves



As in "I worked through all the moves on Predator 5.13b." This could mean that you rappelled in to try each move, but in some groups this will be understood as ground-up climbing.



...but not clean.



As in "I climbed my first 5.8 today, but not clean. I had to take once after the crux." This will usually be followed by rude people reminding you that you didn't "actually send", and nice people reminding you that you should climb however you want as long as its safe and fun.



Edit: I changed the example here from "sent" to "climbed" because after thinking more about Adam's comment, I think there is a whole connotation involved with "sending" that some climbers may not like appropriated.



I think it's important to realize, though, that not officially "sending" is no less impressive or cool than sending. My experience in sport climbing circles is that no matter how hard you send or how many times you hang, other climbers will be stoked for you if you're trying hard and enjoying yourself.






share|improve this answer























  • 2





    Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

    – StrongBad
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

    – Adam
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

    – Adam
    12 hours ago













  • I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago











  • Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago



















3














Without falling, wouldn’t it be hangdog, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms#hangdog



With falling, I also would go for projecting.



(Speaking of Sports climbing!)






share|improve this answer





















  • 3





    "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago











  • @Pont that's right

    – Adam
    12 hours ago



















1














I cannot comment @vladimir F
Sorry the red point, while coming from German and especially from German climber Kurt Albert, does not come from the Elbsandsteingebirge but from Frankenjura (a Limestone region)! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)






share|improve this answer


























  • I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

    – Adam
    5 hours ago











  • Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

    – canIchangethis
    46 mins ago



















0














That is a free climb (the outcome). The term you may use is All Free (AF). It is much more established in German (Alles Frei). Remember, that RP (Rot Punkt) also comes from German. It (AF) makes more sense in traditional sandstone climbing in Elbsandstein, in multipitch clibing and in alpine climbing though. Check, for example, this book, I quote "The AF (All Free) style was developed in the Alps as the first recognized sport style of free climbing , where the climber uses only natural for advancement and and overcomes the route with his/her own strength."






share|improve this answer























  • 2





    That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

    – Adam
    12 hours ago











  • @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

    – Vladimir F
    12 hours ago













  • @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

    – imsodin
    10 hours ago











  • @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago













  • @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago



















0














I think the general progression I use is climbed, led, freed, on sighted, and flashed. I might break freed into red point and pink point if the route or area makes if ambiguous. I generally break led into a lot of terms like groveled, hang dogged, whimpered, depending on how ugly I was. Terms like projecting to me mean you are working towards freeing the route, but if I led a route with a single fall and have no plans to go back, I would describe that as projecting.






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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes








    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    6














    In aid climbing this is still sending since hanging on protection is part of the game (as @StrongBad points out, hanging on the rope is a little different than hanging on protection.)



    In sport climbing, however, there is no specific word or phrase. I think the most common ways to describe it are:



    Projecting



    As in "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a." This doesn't capture the fact that you've done all the moves, but most sport climbers are focused on the clean send, and so a large part of projecting involves doing all the moves in sequence with the occasional hang.



    Worked through all the moves



    As in "I worked through all the moves on Predator 5.13b." This could mean that you rappelled in to try each move, but in some groups this will be understood as ground-up climbing.



    ...but not clean.



    As in "I climbed my first 5.8 today, but not clean. I had to take once after the crux." This will usually be followed by rude people reminding you that you didn't "actually send", and nice people reminding you that you should climb however you want as long as its safe and fun.



    Edit: I changed the example here from "sent" to "climbed" because after thinking more about Adam's comment, I think there is a whole connotation involved with "sending" that some climbers may not like appropriated.



    I think it's important to realize, though, that not officially "sending" is no less impressive or cool than sending. My experience in sport climbing circles is that no matter how hard you send or how many times you hang, other climbers will be stoked for you if you're trying hard and enjoying yourself.






    share|improve this answer























    • 2





      Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

      – StrongBad
      14 hours ago






    • 1





      What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

      – Adam
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

      – Adam
      12 hours ago













    • I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago











    • Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago
















    6














    In aid climbing this is still sending since hanging on protection is part of the game (as @StrongBad points out, hanging on the rope is a little different than hanging on protection.)



    In sport climbing, however, there is no specific word or phrase. I think the most common ways to describe it are:



    Projecting



    As in "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a." This doesn't capture the fact that you've done all the moves, but most sport climbers are focused on the clean send, and so a large part of projecting involves doing all the moves in sequence with the occasional hang.



    Worked through all the moves



    As in "I worked through all the moves on Predator 5.13b." This could mean that you rappelled in to try each move, but in some groups this will be understood as ground-up climbing.



    ...but not clean.



    As in "I climbed my first 5.8 today, but not clean. I had to take once after the crux." This will usually be followed by rude people reminding you that you didn't "actually send", and nice people reminding you that you should climb however you want as long as its safe and fun.



    Edit: I changed the example here from "sent" to "climbed" because after thinking more about Adam's comment, I think there is a whole connotation involved with "sending" that some climbers may not like appropriated.



    I think it's important to realize, though, that not officially "sending" is no less impressive or cool than sending. My experience in sport climbing circles is that no matter how hard you send or how many times you hang, other climbers will be stoked for you if you're trying hard and enjoying yourself.






    share|improve this answer























    • 2





      Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

      – StrongBad
      14 hours ago






    • 1





      What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

      – Adam
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

      – Adam
      12 hours ago













    • I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago











    • Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago














    6












    6








    6







    In aid climbing this is still sending since hanging on protection is part of the game (as @StrongBad points out, hanging on the rope is a little different than hanging on protection.)



    In sport climbing, however, there is no specific word or phrase. I think the most common ways to describe it are:



    Projecting



    As in "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a." This doesn't capture the fact that you've done all the moves, but most sport climbers are focused on the clean send, and so a large part of projecting involves doing all the moves in sequence with the occasional hang.



    Worked through all the moves



    As in "I worked through all the moves on Predator 5.13b." This could mean that you rappelled in to try each move, but in some groups this will be understood as ground-up climbing.



    ...but not clean.



    As in "I climbed my first 5.8 today, but not clean. I had to take once after the crux." This will usually be followed by rude people reminding you that you didn't "actually send", and nice people reminding you that you should climb however you want as long as its safe and fun.



    Edit: I changed the example here from "sent" to "climbed" because after thinking more about Adam's comment, I think there is a whole connotation involved with "sending" that some climbers may not like appropriated.



    I think it's important to realize, though, that not officially "sending" is no less impressive or cool than sending. My experience in sport climbing circles is that no matter how hard you send or how many times you hang, other climbers will be stoked for you if you're trying hard and enjoying yourself.






    share|improve this answer















    In aid climbing this is still sending since hanging on protection is part of the game (as @StrongBad points out, hanging on the rope is a little different than hanging on protection.)



    In sport climbing, however, there is no specific word or phrase. I think the most common ways to describe it are:



    Projecting



    As in "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a." This doesn't capture the fact that you've done all the moves, but most sport climbers are focused on the clean send, and so a large part of projecting involves doing all the moves in sequence with the occasional hang.



    Worked through all the moves



    As in "I worked through all the moves on Predator 5.13b." This could mean that you rappelled in to try each move, but in some groups this will be understood as ground-up climbing.



    ...but not clean.



    As in "I climbed my first 5.8 today, but not clean. I had to take once after the crux." This will usually be followed by rude people reminding you that you didn't "actually send", and nice people reminding you that you should climb however you want as long as its safe and fun.



    Edit: I changed the example here from "sent" to "climbed" because after thinking more about Adam's comment, I think there is a whole connotation involved with "sending" that some climbers may not like appropriated.



    I think it's important to realize, though, that not officially "sending" is no less impressive or cool than sending. My experience in sport climbing circles is that no matter how hard you send or how many times you hang, other climbers will be stoked for you if you're trying hard and enjoying yourself.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 11 hours ago

























    answered 14 hours ago









    John HughesJohn Hughes

    79410 bronze badges




    79410 bronze badges











    • 2





      Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

      – StrongBad
      14 hours ago






    • 1





      What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

      – Adam
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

      – Adam
      12 hours ago













    • I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago











    • Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago














    • 2





      Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

      – StrongBad
      14 hours ago






    • 1





      What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

      – Adam
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

      – Adam
      12 hours ago













    • I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago











    • Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

      – John Hughes
      11 hours ago








    2




    2





    Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

    – StrongBad
    14 hours ago





    Hanging on protection is the WHOLE game in aid climbing (well that and pooping in a tube). That said, hanging on the rope in aid climbing is not part of the game. Technically one could aid climb without a rope.

    – StrongBad
    14 hours ago




    1




    1





    What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

    – Adam
    12 hours ago





    What do you think about simply "sent uncleanly"? or "uncleanly sent"?

    – Adam
    12 hours ago




    1




    1





    "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

    – Adam
    12 hours ago







    "projecting" also covers the case where the route wasn't completed (yet), so it's too broad. "I'm projecting Era Vella 9a" can mean "I'm working on this route but I've only done the first half so far".

    – Adam
    12 hours ago















    I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago





    I agree--that's why I said it "doesn't capture the fact that you haven't done all the moves." I just meant to include it as an example of something you might say had you completed all the moves but not clean.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago













    Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago





    Re: "sent uncleanly" or "uncleanly sent": While I think it'll obvious to most climbers what you mean, a lot of folks would take issue with you calling it "sending" at all. I think sending has a connotation of linking moves to do a route as cohesive whole--if you stick each move on its own with a 5 minute hanging rest in between... it kinda renounces that connotation which I suspect many climbers feel is important.

    – John Hughes
    11 hours ago













    3














    Without falling, wouldn’t it be hangdog, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms#hangdog



    With falling, I also would go for projecting.



    (Speaking of Sports climbing!)






    share|improve this answer





















    • 3





      "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

      – Pont
      12 hours ago











    • @Pont that's right

      – Adam
      12 hours ago
















    3














    Without falling, wouldn’t it be hangdog, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms#hangdog



    With falling, I also would go for projecting.



    (Speaking of Sports climbing!)






    share|improve this answer





















    • 3





      "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

      – Pont
      12 hours ago











    • @Pont that's right

      – Adam
      12 hours ago














    3












    3








    3







    Without falling, wouldn’t it be hangdog, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms#hangdog



    With falling, I also would go for projecting.



    (Speaking of Sports climbing!)






    share|improve this answer













    Without falling, wouldn’t it be hangdog, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_climbing_terms#hangdog



    With falling, I also would go for projecting.



    (Speaking of Sports climbing!)







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 13 hours ago









    canIchangethiscanIchangethis

    594 bronze badges




    594 bronze badges











    • 3





      "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

      – Pont
      12 hours ago











    • @Pont that's right

      – Adam
      12 hours ago














    • 3





      "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

      – Pont
      12 hours ago











    • @Pont that's right

      – Adam
      12 hours ago








    3




    3





    "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago





    "Hangdog" was my first thought too, but I don't think it quite fits what the asker seems to want, which is a term you can apply directly to the whole route: you can say "I sent the route", "I flashed the route", "I onsighted the route", etc. but I wouldn't say "I hangdogged the route" -- I'd use some circumlocution like "I managed to complete it with a bit of hangdogging". But maybe there are others who do use the term like that.

    – Pont
    12 hours ago













    @Pont that's right

    – Adam
    12 hours ago





    @Pont that's right

    – Adam
    12 hours ago











    1














    I cannot comment @vladimir F
    Sorry the red point, while coming from German and especially from German climber Kurt Albert, does not come from the Elbsandsteingebirge but from Frankenjura (a Limestone region)! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)






    share|improve this answer


























    • I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

      – Adam
      5 hours ago











    • Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

      – canIchangethis
      46 mins ago
















    1














    I cannot comment @vladimir F
    Sorry the red point, while coming from German and especially from German climber Kurt Albert, does not come from the Elbsandsteingebirge but from Frankenjura (a Limestone region)! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)






    share|improve this answer


























    • I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

      – Adam
      5 hours ago











    • Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

      – canIchangethis
      46 mins ago














    1












    1








    1







    I cannot comment @vladimir F
    Sorry the red point, while coming from German and especially from German climber Kurt Albert, does not come from the Elbsandsteingebirge but from Frankenjura (a Limestone region)! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)






    share|improve this answer













    I cannot comment @vladimir F
    Sorry the red point, while coming from German and especially from German climber Kurt Albert, does not come from the Elbsandsteingebirge but from Frankenjura (a Limestone region)! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 7 hours ago









    canIchangethiscanIchangethis

    594 bronze badges




    594 bronze badges
















    • I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

      – Adam
      5 hours ago











    • Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

      – canIchangethis
      46 mins ago



















    • I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

      – Adam
      5 hours ago











    • Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

      – canIchangethis
      46 mins ago

















    I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

    – Adam
    5 hours ago





    I gave you some votes to get you over 50 so you can comment. But this is trivia about a concept we're not talking about, so it doesn't really belong as an answer.

    – Adam
    5 hours ago













    Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

    – canIchangethis
    46 mins ago





    Thanks Adam. I will replace it!

    – canIchangethis
    46 mins ago











    0














    That is a free climb (the outcome). The term you may use is All Free (AF). It is much more established in German (Alles Frei). Remember, that RP (Rot Punkt) also comes from German. It (AF) makes more sense in traditional sandstone climbing in Elbsandstein, in multipitch clibing and in alpine climbing though. Check, for example, this book, I quote "The AF (All Free) style was developed in the Alps as the first recognized sport style of free climbing , where the climber uses only natural for advancement and and overcomes the route with his/her own strength."






    share|improve this answer























    • 2





      That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

      – Adam
      12 hours ago











    • @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

      – Vladimir F
      12 hours ago













    • @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

      – imsodin
      10 hours ago











    • @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago













    • @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago
















    0














    That is a free climb (the outcome). The term you may use is All Free (AF). It is much more established in German (Alles Frei). Remember, that RP (Rot Punkt) also comes from German. It (AF) makes more sense in traditional sandstone climbing in Elbsandstein, in multipitch clibing and in alpine climbing though. Check, for example, this book, I quote "The AF (All Free) style was developed in the Alps as the first recognized sport style of free climbing , where the climber uses only natural for advancement and and overcomes the route with his/her own strength."






    share|improve this answer























    • 2





      That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

      – Adam
      12 hours ago











    • @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

      – Vladimir F
      12 hours ago













    • @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

      – imsodin
      10 hours ago











    • @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago













    • @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago














    0












    0








    0







    That is a free climb (the outcome). The term you may use is All Free (AF). It is much more established in German (Alles Frei). Remember, that RP (Rot Punkt) also comes from German. It (AF) makes more sense in traditional sandstone climbing in Elbsandstein, in multipitch clibing and in alpine climbing though. Check, for example, this book, I quote "The AF (All Free) style was developed in the Alps as the first recognized sport style of free climbing , where the climber uses only natural for advancement and and overcomes the route with his/her own strength."






    share|improve this answer















    That is a free climb (the outcome). The term you may use is All Free (AF). It is much more established in German (Alles Frei). Remember, that RP (Rot Punkt) also comes from German. It (AF) makes more sense in traditional sandstone climbing in Elbsandstein, in multipitch clibing and in alpine climbing though. Check, for example, this book, I quote "The AF (All Free) style was developed in the Alps as the first recognized sport style of free climbing , where the climber uses only natural for advancement and and overcomes the route with his/her own strength."







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 10 hours ago

























    answered 12 hours ago









    Vladimir FVladimir F

    3494 silver badges6 bronze badges




    3494 silver badges6 bronze badges











    • 2





      That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

      – Adam
      12 hours ago











    • @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

      – Vladimir F
      12 hours ago













    • @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

      – imsodin
      10 hours ago











    • @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago













    • @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago














    • 2





      That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

      – Adam
      12 hours ago











    • @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

      – Vladimir F
      12 hours ago













    • @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

      – imsodin
      10 hours ago











    • @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago













    • @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

      – Vladimir F
      9 hours ago








    2




    2





    That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

    – Adam
    12 hours ago





    That describers the style of climbing, but doesn't describe the outcome of a particular climb.

    – Adam
    12 hours ago













    @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

    – Vladimir F
    12 hours ago







    @Adam The outcome is a route climbed in particular style. Climbed top rope, aid, all free, red point, pink point, flash, on sight, everything describes a style in which the climb was performed. Sometimes you will hear "first free climb" of certain route (often alpine), thats this, one can rest, but climbs the whole mountain wall free.

    – Vladimir F
    12 hours ago















    @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

    – imsodin
    10 hours ago





    @VladimirF I don't have prove, but I very much contest the statement that for a "first free ascent" you can rest anywhere. For all I know you need to red-point for it to be considered an actual free ascent.

    – imsodin
    10 hours ago













    @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago







    @imsodin Maybe in Yosemites, but what about Himalayas? No-one speaks about RPs there. What about Hanging carefully on the piton, he placed a bolt and abseiled down. Later he came back and fought his way up, occasionally resting on slings and he graded the route IXa AF. Today, this demanding and slippery route contains an added bolt on the lower part. It was added by Bernd Arnold and its RP difficulty is IXb (7a fr.). (about a route in Elbsandstein) There were free ascents decades before RP was a thing.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago















    @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago





    @imsodin But please do note that I did not put such a claim (mentioning first free ascents) into my answer.

    – Vladimir F
    9 hours ago











    0














    I think the general progression I use is climbed, led, freed, on sighted, and flashed. I might break freed into red point and pink point if the route or area makes if ambiguous. I generally break led into a lot of terms like groveled, hang dogged, whimpered, depending on how ugly I was. Terms like projecting to me mean you are working towards freeing the route, but if I led a route with a single fall and have no plans to go back, I would describe that as projecting.






    share|improve this answer






























      0














      I think the general progression I use is climbed, led, freed, on sighted, and flashed. I might break freed into red point and pink point if the route or area makes if ambiguous. I generally break led into a lot of terms like groveled, hang dogged, whimpered, depending on how ugly I was. Terms like projecting to me mean you are working towards freeing the route, but if I led a route with a single fall and have no plans to go back, I would describe that as projecting.






      share|improve this answer




























        0












        0








        0







        I think the general progression I use is climbed, led, freed, on sighted, and flashed. I might break freed into red point and pink point if the route or area makes if ambiguous. I generally break led into a lot of terms like groveled, hang dogged, whimpered, depending on how ugly I was. Terms like projecting to me mean you are working towards freeing the route, but if I led a route with a single fall and have no plans to go back, I would describe that as projecting.






        share|improve this answer













        I think the general progression I use is climbed, led, freed, on sighted, and flashed. I might break freed into red point and pink point if the route or area makes if ambiguous. I generally break led into a lot of terms like groveled, hang dogged, whimpered, depending on how ugly I was. Terms like projecting to me mean you are working towards freeing the route, but if I led a route with a single fall and have no plans to go back, I would describe that as projecting.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        StrongBadStrongBad

        8,30224 silver badges55 bronze badges




        8,30224 silver badges55 bronze badges

























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