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What determines the top speed in ice skating?
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I was watching a hockey skating competition. The best skaters are able to accelerate quickly and turn without losing much speed; however, most people have similar top speed around 20-25 mph.
What is the bottleneck on top speed in skating? It must be the skate friction somehow because speed skating, which uses different skate, is much faster than ice hockey skating in terms of top speed.
newtonian-mechanics friction biology
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I was watching a hockey skating competition. The best skaters are able to accelerate quickly and turn without losing much speed; however, most people have similar top speed around 20-25 mph.
What is the bottleneck on top speed in skating? It must be the skate friction somehow because speed skating, which uses different skate, is much faster than ice hockey skating in terms of top speed.
newtonian-mechanics friction biology
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
I was watching a hockey skating competition. The best skaters are able to accelerate quickly and turn without losing much speed; however, most people have similar top speed around 20-25 mph.
What is the bottleneck on top speed in skating? It must be the skate friction somehow because speed skating, which uses different skate, is much faster than ice hockey skating in terms of top speed.
newtonian-mechanics friction biology
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
$endgroup$
I was watching a hockey skating competition. The best skaters are able to accelerate quickly and turn without losing much speed; however, most people have similar top speed around 20-25 mph.
What is the bottleneck on top speed in skating? It must be the skate friction somehow because speed skating, which uses different skate, is much faster than ice hockey skating in terms of top speed.
newtonian-mechanics friction biology
newtonian-mechanics friction biology
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
114k13 gold badges228 silver badges1358 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
asked 9 hours ago
Shuheng ZhengShuheng Zheng
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
3712 silver badges12 bronze badges
$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago
add a comment
|
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Two important things come into play:
1) Air resistance and friction with the ice.
Kinetic friction is not completely linear, but it won't increase with speed the way air resistance does. Air resistance will be a significant force at 25 mph.
2) Leg Speed.
To exert a propulsive force on the ice, when you go to accelerate you must be moving your foot at more than 25 mph since that is how fast the ice is moving relative to your body to begin with. This is, incidentally, also the major limiting factor for runners, and the reason why people can get to much higher speeds on bikes.
As Nuclear Wang points out in the comments, bikes don't completely skirt this limitation - they are limited by tire speed which is limited by leg speed. But the mechanical advantage of the pedal system allows the tire speed >> leg speed
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In ice hockey skating, you want maximum maneuverability while in speed skating you want the fastest speed. To maneuver on skates requires a coefficient of friction higher than that of skating straight ahead. I don't know what the skates look like but I'd think the sides of the blades would have high coefficient while the bottoms would have lower.
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
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$endgroup$
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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active
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$begingroup$
Two important things come into play:
1) Air resistance and friction with the ice.
Kinetic friction is not completely linear, but it won't increase with speed the way air resistance does. Air resistance will be a significant force at 25 mph.
2) Leg Speed.
To exert a propulsive force on the ice, when you go to accelerate you must be moving your foot at more than 25 mph since that is how fast the ice is moving relative to your body to begin with. This is, incidentally, also the major limiting factor for runners, and the reason why people can get to much higher speeds on bikes.
As Nuclear Wang points out in the comments, bikes don't completely skirt this limitation - they are limited by tire speed which is limited by leg speed. But the mechanical advantage of the pedal system allows the tire speed >> leg speed
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Two important things come into play:
1) Air resistance and friction with the ice.
Kinetic friction is not completely linear, but it won't increase with speed the way air resistance does. Air resistance will be a significant force at 25 mph.
2) Leg Speed.
To exert a propulsive force on the ice, when you go to accelerate you must be moving your foot at more than 25 mph since that is how fast the ice is moving relative to your body to begin with. This is, incidentally, also the major limiting factor for runners, and the reason why people can get to much higher speeds on bikes.
As Nuclear Wang points out in the comments, bikes don't completely skirt this limitation - they are limited by tire speed which is limited by leg speed. But the mechanical advantage of the pedal system allows the tire speed >> leg speed
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
Two important things come into play:
1) Air resistance and friction with the ice.
Kinetic friction is not completely linear, but it won't increase with speed the way air resistance does. Air resistance will be a significant force at 25 mph.
2) Leg Speed.
To exert a propulsive force on the ice, when you go to accelerate you must be moving your foot at more than 25 mph since that is how fast the ice is moving relative to your body to begin with. This is, incidentally, also the major limiting factor for runners, and the reason why people can get to much higher speeds on bikes.
As Nuclear Wang points out in the comments, bikes don't completely skirt this limitation - they are limited by tire speed which is limited by leg speed. But the mechanical advantage of the pedal system allows the tire speed >> leg speed
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
$endgroup$
Two important things come into play:
1) Air resistance and friction with the ice.
Kinetic friction is not completely linear, but it won't increase with speed the way air resistance does. Air resistance will be a significant force at 25 mph.
2) Leg Speed.
To exert a propulsive force on the ice, when you go to accelerate you must be moving your foot at more than 25 mph since that is how fast the ice is moving relative to your body to begin with. This is, incidentally, also the major limiting factor for runners, and the reason why people can get to much higher speeds on bikes.
As Nuclear Wang points out in the comments, bikes don't completely skirt this limitation - they are limited by tire speed which is limited by leg speed. But the mechanical advantage of the pedal system allows the tire speed >> leg speed
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
Señor OSeñor O
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
2,47712 silver badges13 bronze badges
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
add a comment
|
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Great point about leg speed - even in a vacuum on frictionless (when necessary) ice, you can't move faster than your own legs will push you. The mechanical advantage of a bike (gears) means your top speed is only constrained by friction and drag, which is why the bicycle speed record is about 5x that of the skating speed record.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
$begingroup$
I feel 2) is wrong. This would be the case if every step you do are perpendicular to your speed. But this is not the case : the angle between the skate and your direction is less than 90degree when you go fast. Which allow you to gain more speed even if your leg speed is lower than your current speed. Did I misunderstood something ?
$endgroup$
– Astariul
6 mins ago
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In ice hockey skating, you want maximum maneuverability while in speed skating you want the fastest speed. To maneuver on skates requires a coefficient of friction higher than that of skating straight ahead. I don't know what the skates look like but I'd think the sides of the blades would have high coefficient while the bottoms would have lower.
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In ice hockey skating, you want maximum maneuverability while in speed skating you want the fastest speed. To maneuver on skates requires a coefficient of friction higher than that of skating straight ahead. I don't know what the skates look like but I'd think the sides of the blades would have high coefficient while the bottoms would have lower.
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
$endgroup$
add a comment
|
$begingroup$
In ice hockey skating, you want maximum maneuverability while in speed skating you want the fastest speed. To maneuver on skates requires a coefficient of friction higher than that of skating straight ahead. I don't know what the skates look like but I'd think the sides of the blades would have high coefficient while the bottoms would have lower.
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
$endgroup$
In ice hockey skating, you want maximum maneuverability while in speed skating you want the fastest speed. To maneuver on skates requires a coefficient of friction higher than that of skating straight ahead. I don't know what the skates look like but I'd think the sides of the blades would have high coefficient while the bottoms would have lower.
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
answered 9 hours ago
jmhjmh
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
1,6571 gold badge5 silver badges11 bronze badges
add a comment
|
add a comment
|
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$begingroup$
IDK, even despite the fact that I have skated on a speed-skating oval, but if they're really going 25 miles per hour, the wind resistance will not be trivial.
$endgroup$
– Solomon Slow
9 hours ago